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Have you used busses or the metro recently? My girlfriend refuses to ride them because they are dirty, uncomfortable, and most crucially, unsafe. And although I
by johnfn 1y ago
Have you used busses or the metro recently? My girlfriend refuses to ride them because they are dirty, uncomfortable, and most crucially, unsafe. And although I am an ardent supporter of public transportation, I tend to understand her side quite well when I see fare hoppers, people blasting loud music, shouting incoherently or doing drugs - and I probably see one of those every time I ride.
I use public transportation frequently. But I feel that 50 years of work on public transportation has created a system that fails a large percentage of the population. Perhaps another solution is needed.
- __alexs 1y agoNone of those things particularly contribute to the traffic problem. If the problem you are trying to solve is "interacting with random humans" then sure Robotaxi is good. If you are interested in "moving a lot of people to where they need to go efficiently" then it's not.
- llbbdd 1y agoThe former is what individual people are interested in solving. The latter is not on their minds outside of threads like this.
- general1726 1y agoThat sounds like a self centered culture problem not a public transportation problem.
- mafuy 1y agoFor what it's worth, I prefer drugged up people in a bus rather than behind the wheel. It's better to be annoyed by them than to be dead from a car crash with them.
- DennisP 1y agoBut drugged up people in a driverless taxi seems best of all.
- apparent 1y agoThis seems like a false dichotomy. In general, the drugged up people on the bus probably don't have cars.
- jkestner 1y ago11,000 dead Americans a year disagree. (Alcohol is a drug too.)
- apparent 1y agoNo one is saying that people who use drugs (or alcohol, which you refer to) don't ever drive cars. My point was that the ones on the bus probably don't. People who ride the bus are disproportionately poor, and unable to afford a car. As for your point about drunk driving, I would guess most people who drive drunk would be more likely to take an uber/cab than ride the bus, which is not point-to-point, and which often takes much longer.
- jkestner 1y agoYou’re making a guess. Who can say? There are many people who have a car and don’t want to pay Uber prices when they don’t want to drive, and there are many cities where public transportation is convenient.
- autobodie 1y agoIn America or elsewhere? In America, they are dirty and unsafe because they are drastically underfunded, because of people like Elon Musk. This is the history of public transportation in America. America also has a despicable homelessness problem because of all the libertarian nonsense.
- mantas 1y agoNah. Here in my corner of eastern europe public transit gets a fuckton more funding compared to wild 90s. Yet it’s getting worse and worse.
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- simgt 1y ago> I see fare hoppers, people blasting loud music, shouting incoherently or doing drugs - and I probably see one of those every time I ride It has very little to do with public transports and everything to do with our declining western societies. I've never witnessed any of these in any part of developed Asia I know of... > Perhaps another solution is needed. Reducing inequalities, funding education, local police, etc. all seem like a more sustainable way forward than shielding ourselves from the shit in a robotaxi...
- almosthere 1y agoMake crime crime again and get rid of the loud music and drug use? As a society we forgot how to just stand up and say no. We relegated people doing so as Karens instead of supporting them.
- Gareth321 1y agoI strongly agree. Laws are a reflection of our values. If our values are that people should be free to blast loud music in public, spit on the sidewalk, and harass and intimidate others, our laws will permit that behaviour. Many Asian societies ensure their laws prevent people acting that way, often with harsh penalties. As long as we have such a strong movement to "defund the police," and "abolish prisons," our societies will never be as safe as theirs.
- seanmcdirmid 1y agoJust enforcing basic laws and rules on buses would go a far way. Also fare enforcement is talked about in Seattle not as a way to raise more revenue for the system (indeed, fare enforcement costs more than it brings in), but to make it safer (no one wants to ride Link and get stabbed at Capitol Hill station).
- oersted 1y agoSure but this is not a fundamental issue with public transport, it's an issue with the implementation of public transport in the US. There are plenty of places where it's done well, and it is felt deeply. Living in major city in the Netherlands I have never felt any need to own a car. I've been quite open to it a few times and I can afford it no problem, but it was just not worth the hassle, it's just an inferior option.
- ToValueFunfetti 1y agoI don't think you can compare public transport outcomes in the Netherlands with those of the US and use it as an indictment of the US implementation. The US has 50% more crime (including 5x more homicides) and ~$12k extra income (ie Americans can afford a little more comfort); the Netherlands has 5x the population density. Comparing the results of transporting a very different population through very different places doesn't reflect on either implementation on its own.
- bluGill 1y agoPopulation density is similar in the us and the netherlands, when you only count places that matter for transit. Farmers rarely get transit. Look only at the cities and not the rocky mountains and the us is plenty dense
- Calavar 1y agoNot that simple. Take Amtrak Northeast Regional. Service from NYC to Washington D.C is a very busy business travel route that goes down the densest population corridor in the country, but it still crosses areas (especially in northeast Maryland) that could be properly described as rural farmland.
- bluGill 1y agoThat area is still very dense compared to what trains pass through elsewhere in the world. Of course as a tiny country the Netherlands has nothing to compare with. However France has plenty of not dense farmland their trains pass through. Spain has even worse terrin that their trains pass through and again a great system.
- andoando 1y agoHow about just fix those problems in public transport. Weve put zero thought/resources into it
- johnfn 1y agoOff the top of my head, we spent 90M[1] over the last few years adding new gates to prevent fare-hoppers. That's a far cry from "zero thought/resources". [1]: https://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/article/bart-fare-gates-ridership-20267784.php https://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/article/bart-fare-gates-...
- andoando 1y agoSorry Im from LA. Still though, compare 90M to the amount of money that goes into car infrastructure, including the ~$500+ (on average, 20% of peoples income) people pay monthly for their automobiles. https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/DMVSRC1A027NBEA https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/DMVSRC1A027NBEA Over 360 billion spent in 2024 alone
- TrackerFF 1y agoI live in northern Europe now. The only time I ever felt unsafe on a bus, was once when a raving junkie walked up and down the bus with a scissor in his hand, trying to "sniff out the snitch". Turns out the bus I took, was the bus that also went to a halfway home. But that's about it. I've taken thousands of rides, and have felt safe. Sure, there are some annoying aspects - like teens blasting music, drunk people going out on the weekends, but most of the time it is pretty good. Then again, taking the bus isn't looked down on in Europe - and carries no shame , so to speak. That goes for the metro, too.
- llbbdd 1y agoThis has never happened to me in a taxi or Uber, and one such incident would be more than enough for me to never take public transit again.
- alt227 1y agoThere have been plenty of people that have got into an Uber or taxi only to find out the driver is unlicensed or has bad intentions. One such incident would be more than enough for me to never get in a car alone with a stranger again.
- llbbdd 1y agoSee my other comment here but this is exactly my point. On a bus with dozens of strangers I have 0 recourse. In a car with someone who at least had to provide some kind of ID, I have more power. Consider that strangers just being present is not likely to protect you. EDIT: I don't think your original comment included the licensing bit (apologies if I just read it poorly), but it doesn't change my point. If you have to provide some paperwork, however illegal, however incorrect, it is a barrier to crime that public transit does not have, and is a paper trail.
- queenkjuul 1y agoAn Uber i was in pulled straight out into traffic and if not for oncoming cars slamming their brakes we'd have been t boned. Like 4 Ubers I've been in featured a driver watching YouTube. Sometimes you don't really have a choice. But I basically always choose the bus instead of i can help it.
- fwip 1y agoUsing public transport is, statistically, safer than a private vehicle. It is often perceived as unsafe, but perception is not reality.
- whycome 1y agoThe likelihood of getting stabbed on a bus is probably higher than in a car. Perception of safety isn't just about accidents.
- kldg 1y agoNow I'm curious whether or not this is true. I'm much more likely to be killed or assaulted by friends or family than by a random person, and if I'm being killed by someone, the most likely killer by far is also the person they killed, even in the US. Further, while I know people who were shot in their car, I know nobody who was shot on a bus (I don't know anyone involved in knife violence in any capacity).
- Mawr 1y agoDo you have any reason to only care about being stabbed in particular? Is another car running a red light and smashing into yours, leaving you to bleed to death within the hour preferable to being stabbed somehow?
- intended 1y agoYour robo taxis will also become dirty, unsafe and unclean. The quality of service a private entity will provide, does not magically make it better. It’s better only because of competition driving differentiation in order to capture more market share. But if you cannot compete further on quality, you will compete on price. The airline industry is a good example of this. Public Safety, public transit, can be very good, provided the incentives, funding and institutions to serve it are funded. People take pride in their work, including the work that results in world quality public services.
- mmoskal 1y agoAirplanes are dirty, unsafe and unclean?
- general1726 1y agoAirplanes usually have crews cleaning them after every flight + crew keeping order during the flight. Have you ever seen an airplane which just landed after 12 hours flight? What a mess huh?
- misnome 1y agoThe robotaxis will have someone cleaning them between uses? Maybe they can sit in the front seat!
- hombre_fatal 1y agoBy letting people report messes in the taxi that arrives and passing on the vehicle if it’s soiled, then you can quickly determine and evict the messy people from the system.
- josephcsible 1y agoHow will the robotaxis become unsafe? The reason public transit is unsafe is because of the other passengers on board with you, but you have the robotaxi to yourself.
- belorn 1y ago> I tend to understand her side quite well when I see fare hoppers, people blasting loud music, shouting incoherently or doing drugs - and I probably see one of those every time I ride. That seems to describe city streets. I had a relative that until recently refused to visit major cities because of this, using basically those same words (unsafe, uncomfortable, dirty).
- const_cast 1y ago> and most crucially, unsafe This is more or less a completely imagined issue. The most dangerous form of transportation is personal vehicles, and its not even close. For example, on the NY subway you have a 100x greater chance of dying by driving instead of taking the subway. 100x. If you look at the risk of injury it's not any better. The thing is that feeling unsafe and actually being unsafe are two different things. Cars feel safe because you're isolated, you have walls between you and everyone else. Public transit feels unsafe because you can directly see other people and there's nothing stopping them from just walking up to you. Like, for your point on drugs, on a subway you can literally see the people on drugs, which makes you feel unsafe. In a car, you don't know who is on drugs, so you feel more safe. But, you're not. People are still on drugs, but now, they're also operating a deadly weapon.
- johnfn 1y ago> This is more or less a completely imagined issue. The most dangerous form of transportation is personal vehicles, and its not even close. Sure, you can make that argument. I can even agree with you. But you're not going to convince my girlfriend, or most women for that matter, that they're "actually more safe" in a car than BART. Especially if she has to dodge people yelling or cat-calling her to get on the station. You or I can be totally fine with that. But I can't find it within me to fault her for not being OK with that, and wanting to call an Uber instead.
- const_cast 1y agoI already included this in my post - feeling unsafe is a different thing. I don't know how to solve people feeling unsafe, because it's a combination of human's irrational risk management and real-world limitations. If you remove walls and sound barriers, i.e. you go public for transportation, I'm not sure there's any way around the "feeling unsafe" problem.
- DennisP 1y agoMaybe the right framing here isn't safety, but how pleasant or unpleasant the experience is.
- Gigachad 1y agoThat's a reflection on your city and society rather than busses.
- queenkjuul 1y agoOh no, not fare hoppers, the most terrifying urban creature! Why do people care about this. How does this affect you.
- UncleMeat 1y agoPeople die or are grievously injured all the time in car accidents. The subway has a very particular kind of unsafeness concern (visible poverty). Cars as an insulated bubble for people to avoid ever being in the same physical space as a poor person is a mess.