8 ms·

Having taken Waymo rides multiple times in San Francisco I can attest to how awesome Waymo is. I am worried Tesla will bring a bad name to the whole robotaxi in

Having taken Waymo rides multiple times in San Francisco I can attest to how awesome Waymo is. I am worried Tesla will bring a bad name to the whole robotaxi industry. Waymo has never had an at-fault injury accident. Tesla FSD has killed many people.

tsimionescu 1y ago
The good news so far is that Tesla doesn't have a robotaxi service at all, they have a plain taxi service. We'll see what happens if they ever release a self-driving car, but for now, as in the past 7-8 years, they are way behind Waymo in the self driving car arena.
samrus 1y ago
the thing about waymo is that i suspect they're running the same ML fraud that tesla itself is running in the silicon valley in general, which is to overfit on the 20% of situations that occur 80% of times. for waymo itself, you can overfit on 100% of the situations that will be encountered. 49 square miles isnt that large. its the real world outside that which im concerned about its efficacy in. i think if you put a waymo in a small town that no alphabet engineer has ever even heard of, then youll see it fail badly as well. FSD is a reinforcement learning problem, and we have no good way of training non-simulation algos for that. and a real dynamical driving environment cant be simulated accurately enough
- chronic0262 1y ago
  > i think if you put a waymo in a small town that no alphabet engineer has ever even heard of, then youll see it fail badly as well. Waymo is not claiming to work in small towns. Tesla is. Soon™.
  - rogerrogerr 1y ago
    FSD works in small towns today. Source: small town FSD user.
- seanhunter 1y ago
  Waymo works in a remarkable range of situations. I took a waymo in LA and our route came through an awkward four-way intersection at the crest of a hill on a residential street. Another driver went through the stop when we had right of way, saw us and then just stopped, completely blocking our side of the road. The waymo just backed up a couple of yards and then slowly went round the wrong side and proceeded on its route. That is, in a weird situation it did exactly what a good, cautious human driver would do. Small sample, but it makes me think they are not doing what you say, they are just actually trying to approach the problem seriously rather than Tesla’s “full speed and damn the torpedoes” approach.
- breadwinner 1y ago
  > if you put a waymo in a small town that no alphabet engineer has ever even heard of, then youll see it fail badly as well. Which is why it is a non-goal for Waymo. It should be a non-goal for Tesla too, given the state of the art.
  - sorcerer-mar 1y ago
    It's hilarious to see Tesla fans try to act like designing for an undefined operational domain is somehow extra brilliant and not one of the stupidest fucking ideas anyone has ever come up with.
- amscanne 1y ago
  San Francisco, Phoenix and LA represent a strong diversity of driving conditions. Certainly not all driving conditions, but no one is throwing a Waymo into a small town in the way you describe. Expanding slowly and cautious seems like the rational thing to do, I’m not clear what you are proposing as an alternative (or specifically what the alleged fraud is).
  - Marsymars 1y ago
    > San Francisco, Phoenix and LA represent a strong diversity of driving conditions. This could very well be true, but if you’re looking at it from a perspective of someone who lives in a rural area with real winters, for driving purposes, those all look like pretty much equivalent large American cities without a winter.
    - tln 1y ago
      Waymo has done winter testing in Buffalo, Tahoe, Michigan FWIW.
- kmacleod 1y ago
  Not sure where you're getting your information from. My FSD (v13.2) has driven unmapped roads, including gravel roads, hills, narrow roads, and switchbacks, in the backwoods of Tennessee. From watching the display, it clearly identifies the road features and navigates them.
Joel_Mckay 1y ago
Camera based guidance systems are unreliable, and the number of edge-case failure modes grow exponential in time. LIDAR/LADAR based systems are not perfect, but do offer mm precision for guidance systems. SLAM based LIDAR systems can be very good, but are also not perfect when forced to guess where a platform is located. Cheers, =3
- Bluestein 1y ago
  > edge-case failure modes grow exponential in time. How so? Honestly asking.-
  - Joel_Mckay 1y ago
    That is a long explanation, but generally even human binocular disparity incorrectly guesses 3D structures and distances. Our brains automatically fill in a lot of missing information that computers just can't know a priori (example: you know a dog hidden behind a car doesn't actually vanish nor remain stationary.) Most guidance platforms would use LIDAR/SLAM to describe the local road surface, and overlap camera vision data to extrapolate distant surfaces and objects. Note distant objects also have lower resolution, unknown non-distinctive features (speed bump, or open man-hole cover etc.), and increasing sparse data as velocity effectively lowers world-state sampling rates. The world-state is constantly changing at every intersection, sampling constraints add latency, and the navigation way-point goals may reach contradiction with immediate path-planning due to ambiguous/expired information. Cheers =3
    - peterfirefly 1y ago
      So, it doesn't "grow exponentially", you just wanted to express that there are "many". > you know a dog hidden behind a car doesn't actually vanish nor remain stationary. Computers can do that, too. It's not that different ... guessing missing words. I think it was two years ago that Tesla told the public that they could do that.
      - Joel_Mckay 1y ago
tzs 1y ago
In the US it is officially 2 deaths involving Teslas with FSD engaged, with a couple more under investigation but not yet verified that FSD was engaged. Still way more (no pun intended!) than Waymo, which has had 1 Waymo involved in a 6 car crash that killed someone in one of the other cars. Besides the human fatality a dog was also killed, and 5 other people were injured, some seriously. The Waymo was empty at the time. Ironically this crash was due to a Tesla. The Waymo and the other cars were all waiting at a red light when the Tesla rear ended them at 98 mph. The driver of the Tesla was not impaired at the time of the crash. He says he tried to stop but the brakes were not responding. The driver was from Hawaii, and it was later discovered that there is someone in Hawaii with the same full name, Jia Lin Zheng, with a record of around 20 traffic crimes over the last 20 years, including excessive speeding and running red lights. I don't know if it had been determined if the Jia Lin Zheng visiting from Hawaii who caused the San Francisco crash is the same Jia Lin Zheng as the Hawaiian Jia Lin Zheng who has the long record of unsafe driving. I'm not familiar with the naming conventions of whatever country/culture that name comes from. Is Jia Lin Zheng the kind of name that probably many people have in Hawaii or is it one that is likely rare?
- sMarsIntruder 1y ago
  How many people saved by the tech?
  - sorcerer-mar 1y ago
    Tesla doesn't release the data required to assess this. And from that information alone, you can get the gist of what that data says! (inb4 you post the accidents per mile chart which is very obviously useless and designed to mislead midwits, as it is not controlled for age of automobile or driving conditions)
  - jeffbee 1y ago
    Probably none. Fatalities in Teslas grossly exceed those in comparably-priced vehicles, which is the only benchmark that matters. Unless your counterfactual is that Tesla would be even more dangerous without FSD, but I don't think that is a useful counterfactual.
hansvm 1y ago
Waymo came close with me. There were two left turn lanes, and it migrated from the inner one to the outer one in the middle of the turn without a blinker while I was next to it. It got lucky that I'm young and wasn't too tired and also that it was a relatively safe place to run me off the road.
- Marsymars 1y ago
  This is tough for people to get right too. Near my house we’ve got 2 left turn lanes that merge into a 3 lane road without any lane markers, and I’ve got to maintain constant vigilance for people drifting into my lane.
- r0m4n0 1y ago
  Are you sure that you were in the right and there were two left turn lanes? There is an intersection by me that everyone uses wrong and you get folks using it as a double turn lane when the lanes have text that say the name of the road you are technically supposed to stay on. Really the city is to blame and not the driver because it’s confusing but still, I think the lanes are all mapped manually for Waymo (but personally I don’t have any inside knowledge) Traveling south here on Land Park Dr there are two lanes, some people from the right lane veer left and the left lane veer right through the middle of the intersection. There aren’t dotted lines to help. https://maps.app.goo.gl/?link=https://www.google.com/maps/@38.5378955,-121.5032635,9a,75y,228.81h,77.59t/data%3D!3m5!1e1!3m3!1sfMkYspllleFnjMbP8VFTRw!2e0!6shttps:%252F%252Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%252Fv1%252Fthumbnail%253Fpanoid%253DfMkYspllleFnjMbP8VFTRw%2526w%253D900%2526h%253D600%2526ll%253D38.537895,-121.503263%2526yaw%253D228.806854%2526pitch%253D12.405800%2526cb_client%253Dgmm.iv.ios?g_ep%3DCAISEjI1LjI5LjIuNzgyNjQxNDIyMxgAIIGBASqQASw5NDI3NTMwNiw5NDIyMzI4Nyw5NDIxNjQwMSw5NDIyNDgyNSw5NDIyNzI0Nyw5NDIyNzI0OCw5NDIzMTE4OCw5NDI4MDU2OCw0NzA3MTcwNCw0NzA2OTUwOCw5NDI3Mzg4Myw5NDIxODY0MSw5NDI4MjEzNCw5NDIwMzAxOSw0NzA4NDMwNCw5NDI1ODk0MkICVVM%253D%26skid%3D5429b83f-587f-4be4-88a8-a45fc2f87105&apn=com.google.android.apps.maps&afl=https://www.google.com/maps/@38.5378955,-121.5032635,9a,75y,228.81h,77.59t/data%3D!3m5!1e1!3m3!1sfMkYspllleFnjMbP8VFTRw!2e0!6shttps:%252F%252Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%252Fv1%252Fthumbnail%253Fpanoid%253DfMkYspllleFnjMbP8VFTRw%2526w%253D900%2526h%253D600%2526ll%253D38.537895,-121.503263%2526yaw%253D228.806854%2526pitch%253D12.405800%2526cb_client%253Dgmm.iv.ios?g_ep%3DCAISEjI1LjI5LjIuNzgyNjQxNDIyMxgAIIGBASqQASw5NDI3NTMwNiw5NDIyMzI4Nyw5NDIxNjQwMSw5NDIyNDgyNSw5NDIyNzI0Nyw5NDIyNzI0OCw5NDIzMTE4OCw5NDI4MDU2OCw0NzA3MTcwNCw0NzA2OTUwOCw5NDI3Mzg4Myw5NDIxODY0MSw5NDI4MjEzNCw5NDIwMzAxOSw0NzA4NDMwNCw5NDI1ODk0MkICVVM%253D%26skid%3D27fae012-c7b9-48e7-afe1-f7e25731510f&isi=585027354&ibi=com.google.Maps&ibi=com.google.Rzimuth&ibi=com.google.Azimuth&ibi=com.google.Bzimuth&ibi=com.google.Czimuth&ibi=com.google.Dzimuth&ius=comgooglemapsurl&ifl=https://www.google.com/maps/@38.5378955,-121.5032635,9a,75y,228.81h,77.59t/data%3D!3m5!1e1!3m3!1sfMkYspllleFnjMbP8VFTRw!2e0!6shttps:%252F%252Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%252Fv1%252Fthumbnail%253Fpanoid%253DfMkYspllleFnjMbP8VFTRw%2526w%253D900%2526h%253D600%2526ll%253D38.537895,-121.503263%2526yaw%253D228.806854%2526pitch%253D12.405800%2526cb_client%253Dgmm.iv.ios?g_ep%3DCAISEjI1LjI5LjIuNzgyNjQxNDIyMxgAIIGBASqQASw5NDI3NTMwNiw5NDIyMzI4Nyw5NDIxNjQwMSw5NDIyNDgyNSw5NDIyNzI0Nyw5NDIyNzI0OCw5NDIzMTE4OCw5NDI4MDU2OCw0NzA3MTcwNCw0NzA2OTUwOCw5NDI3Mzg4Myw5NDIxODY0MSw5NDI4MjEzNCw5NDIwMzAxOSw0NzA4NDMwNCw5NDI1ODk0MkICVVM%253D%26skid%3D9b78826e-2fed-4443-a3bd-896f112799c7&cid=42701145944680883&_osl=https://maps.app.goo.gl/sbbc35hPxcHqCEB19&_icp=1 https://maps.app.goo.gl/?link=https://www.google.com/maps/@3...
maxlin 1y ago
With that logic might as well do away with all defensive armies because they've "killed so many people". Firefighters too. FYI. FSD is safer than human drivers on large datasets. Accidents cause deaths of thousands every year. Arguing against FSD for "safety" has The Grim Reaper cackling.
- renewiltord 1y ago
  It’s that Waymo is both more widespread and better. If there were no Waymo, then sure. But there is Waymo.
  - maxlin 1y ago
    You do realize that Waymo, at best, is comparable to a train with an extremely limited, and expensive, rail network on a level where Robotaxi would be a 4x4 car in a roadless world? Waymo is SLS compared to Starship. So, not comparable and could never fit the shoes Robotaxi has been planned to fill since the initiation of the FSD project. I.E. SLS = a few academic missions. Starship: Mars colony. Waymo is as good for safety as doing nothing with its inability to scale. Waymo costs as much per ride as one with a driver. Robotaxi is technologically fundamentally close to starting its shift after you arrive home and get out of your car. Earning you part of the profit btw. And with no growing pains, with FSD working on novel, untested roads.
    - sorcerer-mar 1y ago
      And with no [hypothetical] growing pains [not including the obvious practical growing pains we are all witnessing with our eyes currently], with FSD working on novel, untested roads [plus or minus a bunch of Teslas driving around with camera arrays mounted in specific, limited areas, but besides that totally novel untested roads definitely work].
      - maxlin 1y ago
        FSD has simply proven untested roads work, you cannot argue against that. >Growing pains Robotaxi has been in testing for less than like 1/50 the time Waymo has been out, and has already once surpassed coverage in their starting city. You know who also had growing pains? Hulk. Growing that quick. Elon can literally draw and balls a dick on top of Waymo's long-amassed support area. Even if they want to check these starting areas a bit better with some basic mapping setups in advance, it's obvious their stack isn't hindered by requirement of hard, slow HD mapping and cars that look like they're growing mushrooms with the ugly LIDAR sensors on them.

tsimionescu 1y ago

The good news so far is that Tesla doesn't have a robotaxi service at all, they have a plain taxi service. We'll see what happens if they ever release a self-driving car, but for now, as in the past 7-8 years, they are way behind Waymo in the self driving car arena.

samrus 1y ago

the thing about waymo is that i suspect they're running the same ML fraud that tesla itself is running in the silicon valley in general, which is to overfit on the 20% of situations that occur 80% of times. for waymo itself, you can overfit on 100% of the situations that will be encountered. 49 square miles isnt that large. its the real world outside that which im concerned about its efficacy in. i think if you put a waymo in a small town that no alphabet engineer has ever even heard of, then youll see it fail badly as well. FSD is a reinforcement learning problem, and we have no good way of training non-simulation algos for that. and a real dynamical driving environment cant be simulated accurately enough

chronic0262 1y ago
> i think if you put a waymo in a small town that no alphabet engineer has ever even heard of, then youll see it fail badly as well. Waymo is not claiming to work in small towns. Tesla is. Soon™.
- rogerrogerr 1y ago
  FSD works in small towns today. Source: small town FSD user.
seanhunter 1y ago
Waymo works in a remarkable range of situations. I took a waymo in LA and our route came through an awkward four-way intersection at the crest of a hill on a residential street. Another driver went through the stop when we had right of way, saw us and then just stopped, completely blocking our side of the road. The waymo just backed up a couple of yards and then slowly went round the wrong side and proceeded on its route. That is, in a weird situation it did exactly what a good, cautious human driver would do. Small sample, but it makes me think they are not doing what you say, they are just actually trying to approach the problem seriously rather than Tesla’s “full speed and damn the torpedoes” approach.
breadwinner 1y ago
> if you put a waymo in a small town that no alphabet engineer has ever even heard of, then youll see it fail badly as well. Which is why it is a non-goal for Waymo. It should be a non-goal for Tesla too, given the state of the art.
- sorcerer-mar 1y ago
  It's hilarious to see Tesla fans try to act like designing for an undefined operational domain is somehow extra brilliant and not one of the stupidest fucking ideas anyone has ever come up with.
amscanne 1y ago
San Francisco, Phoenix and LA represent a strong diversity of driving conditions. Certainly not all driving conditions, but no one is throwing a Waymo into a small town in the way you describe. Expanding slowly and cautious seems like the rational thing to do, I’m not clear what you are proposing as an alternative (or specifically what the alleged fraud is).
- Marsymars 1y ago
  > San Francisco, Phoenix and LA represent a strong diversity of driving conditions. This could very well be true, but if you’re looking at it from a perspective of someone who lives in a rural area with real winters, for driving purposes, those all look like pretty much equivalent large American cities without a winter.
  - tln 1y ago
    Waymo has done winter testing in Buffalo, Tahoe, Michigan FWIW.
kmacleod 1y ago
Not sure where you're getting your information from. My FSD (v13.2) has driven unmapped roads, including gravel roads, hills, narrow roads, and switchbacks, in the backwoods of Tennessee. From watching the display, it clearly identifies the road features and navigates them.

Joel_Mckay 1y ago

Camera based guidance systems are unreliable, and the number of edge-case failure modes grow exponential in time. LIDAR/LADAR based systems are not perfect, but do offer mm precision for guidance systems. SLAM based LIDAR systems can be very good, but are also not perfect when forced to guess where a platform is located. Cheers, =3

Bluestein 1y ago
> edge-case failure modes grow exponential in time. How so? Honestly asking.-
- Joel_Mckay 1y ago
  That is a long explanation, but generally even human binocular disparity incorrectly guesses 3D structures and distances. Our brains automatically fill in a lot of missing information that computers just can't know a priori (example: you know a dog hidden behind a car doesn't actually vanish nor remain stationary.) Most guidance platforms would use LIDAR/SLAM to describe the local road surface, and overlap camera vision data to extrapolate distant surfaces and objects. Note distant objects also have lower resolution, unknown non-distinctive features (speed bump, or open man-hole cover etc.), and increasing sparse data as velocity effectively lowers world-state sampling rates. The world-state is constantly changing at every intersection, sampling constraints add latency, and the navigation way-point goals may reach contradiction with immediate path-planning due to ambiguous/expired information. Cheers =3
  - peterfirefly 1y ago
    So, it doesn't "grow exponentially", you just wanted to express that there are "many". > you know a dog hidden behind a car doesn't actually vanish nor remain stationary. Computers can do that, too. It's not that different ... guessing missing words. I think it was two years ago that Tesla told the public that they could do that.
    - Joel_Mckay 1y ago

tzs 1y ago

In the US it is officially 2 deaths involving Teslas with FSD engaged, with a couple more under investigation but not yet verified that FSD was engaged. Still way more (no pun intended!) than Waymo, which has had 1 Waymo involved in a 6 car crash that killed someone in one of the other cars. Besides the human fatality a dog was also killed, and 5 other people were injured, some seriously. The Waymo was empty at the time. Ironically this crash was due to a Tesla. The Waymo and the other cars were all waiting at a red light when the Tesla rear ended them at 98 mph. The driver of the Tesla was not impaired at the time of the crash. He says he tried to stop but the brakes were not responding. The driver was from Hawaii, and it was later discovered that there is someone in Hawaii with the same full name, Jia Lin Zheng, with a record of around 20 traffic crimes over the last 20 years, including excessive speeding and running red lights. I don't know if it had been determined if the Jia Lin Zheng visiting from Hawaii who caused the San Francisco crash is the same Jia Lin Zheng as the Hawaiian Jia Lin Zheng who has the long record of unsafe driving. I'm not familiar with the naming conventions of whatever country/culture that name comes from. Is Jia Lin Zheng the kind of name that probably many people have in Hawaii or is it one that is likely rare?

sMarsIntruder 1y ago
How many people saved by the tech?
- sorcerer-mar 1y ago
  Tesla doesn't release the data required to assess this. And from that information alone, you can get the gist of what that data says! (inb4 you post the accidents per mile chart which is very obviously useless and designed to mislead midwits, as it is not controlled for age of automobile or driving conditions)
- jeffbee 1y ago
  Probably none. Fatalities in Teslas grossly exceed those in comparably-priced vehicles, which is the only benchmark that matters. Unless your counterfactual is that Tesla would be even more dangerous without FSD, but I don't think that is a useful counterfactual.

hansvm 1y ago

Waymo came close with me. There were two left turn lanes, and it migrated from the inner one to the outer one in the middle of the turn without a blinker while I was next to it. It got lucky that I'm young and wasn't too tired and also that it was a relatively safe place to run me off the road.

Marsymars 1y ago
This is tough for people to get right too. Near my house we’ve got 2 left turn lanes that merge into a 3 lane road without any lane markers, and I’ve got to maintain constant vigilance for people drifting into my lane.
r0m4n0 1y ago
Are you sure that you were in the right and there were two left turn lanes? There is an intersection by me that everyone uses wrong and you get folks using it as a double turn lane when the lanes have text that say the name of the road you are technically supposed to stay on. Really the city is to blame and not the driver because it’s confusing but still, I think the lanes are all mapped manually for Waymo (but personally I don’t have any inside knowledge) Traveling south here on Land Park Dr there are two lanes, some people from the right lane veer left and the left lane veer right through the middle of the intersection. There aren’t dotted lines to help. https://maps.app.goo.gl/?link=https://www.google.com/maps/@38.5378955,-121.5032635,9a,75y,228.81h,77.59t/data%3D!3m5!1e1!3m3!1sfMkYspllleFnjMbP8VFTRw!2e0!6shttps:%252F%252Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%252Fv1%252Fthumbnail%253Fpanoid%253DfMkYspllleFnjMbP8VFTRw%2526w%253D900%2526h%253D600%2526ll%253D38.537895,-121.503263%2526yaw%253D228.806854%2526pitch%253D12.405800%2526cb_client%253Dgmm.iv.ios?g_ep%3DCAISEjI1LjI5LjIuNzgyNjQxNDIyMxgAIIGBASqQASw5NDI3NTMwNiw5NDIyMzI4Nyw5NDIxNjQwMSw5NDIyNDgyNSw5NDIyNzI0Nyw5NDIyNzI0OCw5NDIzMTE4OCw5NDI4MDU2OCw0NzA3MTcwNCw0NzA2OTUwOCw5NDI3Mzg4Myw5NDIxODY0MSw5NDI4MjEzNCw5NDIwMzAxOSw0NzA4NDMwNCw5NDI1ODk0MkICVVM%253D%26skid%3D5429b83f-587f-4be4-88a8-a45fc2f87105&apn=com.google.android.apps.maps&afl=https://www.google.com/maps/@38.5378955,-121.5032635,9a,75y,228.81h,77.59t/data%3D!3m5!1e1!3m3!1sfMkYspllleFnjMbP8VFTRw!2e0!6shttps:%252F%252Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%252Fv1%252Fthumbnail%253Fpanoid%253DfMkYspllleFnjMbP8VFTRw%2526w%253D900%2526h%253D600%2526ll%253D38.537895,-121.503263%2526yaw%253D228.806854%2526pitch%253D12.405800%2526cb_client%253Dgmm.iv.ios?g_ep%3DCAISEjI1LjI5LjIuNzgyNjQxNDIyMxgAIIGBASqQASw5NDI3NTMwNiw5NDIyMzI4Nyw5NDIxNjQwMSw5NDIyNDgyNSw5NDIyNzI0Nyw5NDIyNzI0OCw5NDIzMTE4OCw5NDI4MDU2OCw0NzA3MTcwNCw0NzA2OTUwOCw5NDI3Mzg4Myw5NDIxODY0MSw5NDI4MjEzNCw5NDIwMzAxOSw0NzA4NDMwNCw5NDI1ODk0MkICVVM%253D%26skid%3D27fae012-c7b9-48e7-afe1-f7e25731510f&isi=585027354&ibi=com.google.Maps&ibi=com.google.Rzimuth&ibi=com.google.Azimuth&ibi=com.google.Bzimuth&ibi=com.google.Czimuth&ibi=com.google.Dzimuth&ius=comgooglemapsurl&ifl=https://www.google.com/maps/@38.5378955,-121.5032635,9a,75y,228.81h,77.59t/data%3D!3m5!1e1!3m3!1sfMkYspllleFnjMbP8VFTRw!2e0!6shttps:%252F%252Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%252Fv1%252Fthumbnail%253Fpanoid%253DfMkYspllleFnjMbP8VFTRw%2526w%253D900%2526h%253D600%2526ll%253D38.537895,-121.503263%2526yaw%253D228.806854%2526pitch%253D12.405800%2526cb_client%253Dgmm.iv.ios?g_ep%3DCAISEjI1LjI5LjIuNzgyNjQxNDIyMxgAIIGBASqQASw5NDI3NTMwNiw5NDIyMzI4Nyw5NDIxNjQwMSw5NDIyNDgyNSw5NDIyNzI0Nyw5NDIyNzI0OCw5NDIzMTE4OCw5NDI4MDU2OCw0NzA3MTcwNCw0NzA2OTUwOCw5NDI3Mzg4Myw5NDIxODY0MSw5NDI4MjEzNCw5NDIwMzAxOSw0NzA4NDMwNCw5NDI1ODk0MkICVVM%253D%26skid%3D9b78826e-2fed-4443-a3bd-896f112799c7&cid=42701145944680883&_osl=https://maps.app.goo.gl/sbbc35hPxcHqCEB19&_icp=1 https://maps.app.goo.gl/?link=https://www.google.com/maps/@3...

maxlin 1y ago

With that logic might as well do away with all defensive armies because they've "killed so many people". Firefighters too. FYI. FSD is safer than human drivers on large datasets. Accidents cause deaths of thousands every year. Arguing against FSD for "safety" has The Grim Reaper cackling.

renewiltord 1y ago
It’s that Waymo is both more widespread and better. If there were no Waymo, then sure. But there is Waymo.
- maxlin 1y ago
  You do realize that Waymo, at best, is comparable to a train with an extremely limited, and expensive, rail network on a level where Robotaxi would be a 4x4 car in a roadless world? Waymo is SLS compared to Starship. So, not comparable and could never fit the shoes Robotaxi has been planned to fill since the initiation of the FSD project. I.E. SLS = a few academic missions. Starship: Mars colony. Waymo is as good for safety as doing nothing with its inability to scale. Waymo costs as much per ride as one with a driver. Robotaxi is technologically fundamentally close to starting its shift after you arrive home and get out of your car. Earning you part of the profit btw. And with no growing pains, with FSD working on novel, untested roads.
  - sorcerer-mar 1y ago
    And with no [hypothetical] growing pains [not including the obvious practical growing pains we are all witnessing with our eyes currently], with FSD working on novel, untested roads [plus or minus a bunch of Teslas driving around with camera arrays mounted in specific, limited areas, but besides that totally novel untested roads definitely work].
    - maxlin 1y ago
      FSD has simply proven untested roads work, you cannot argue against that. >Growing pains Robotaxi has been in testing for less than like 1/50 the time Waymo has been out, and has already once surpassed coverage in their starting city. You know who also had growing pains? Hulk. Growing that quick. Elon can literally draw and balls a dick on top of Waymo's long-amassed support area. Even if they want to check these starting areas a bit better with some basic mapping setups in advance, it's obvious their stack isn't hindered by requirement of hard, slow HD mapping and cars that look like they're growing mushrooms with the ugly LIDAR sensors on them.