7 ms·

The big problem is the power imbalance. There's a reason they start your stay by putting a hold on a credit card. And even if you could charge them, they can af

by hansvm 1y ago

The big problem is the power imbalance. There's a reason they start your stay by putting a hold on a credit card. And even if you could charge them, they can afford a legal battle better than you.

lxgr 1y ago
Oh, that's a common misunderstanding, but they can't sue me in court – by accepting me as a customer, they accepted my binding arbitration agreement! It clearly said so on my luggage tag their authorized agent (i.e. the bellboy) handled as part of check-in.
- Der_Einzige 1y ago
  This is exactly the kind of subversive stuff I live for.
  - refulgentis 1y ago
    Live for? Or fantasize about? :) It's a fun fantasy, but the fact we're happy to see it highlights our impotency - even a line worker sympathetic to the power imbalance would be left at "Anyways, we'll charge the fee to your card on file"
    - lxgr 1y ago
      I wonder if there's a business model for a "robo-lawyer" paired with a travel agency here: "Stay at one of these hotels using this credit card issued by us, sign this contract promising that you won't smoke there, and if the hotel tries anything funny, we'll reward you with the room rate back and a bonus" :)
      - altairprime 1y ago
        The company that issues cards to be provided to phone phishers understands this perfectly :)
- nine_zeros 1y ago
  >Oh, that's a common misunderstanding, but they can't sue me in court – by accepting me as a customer, they accepted my binding arbitration agreement! It clearly said so on my luggage tag their authorized agent (i.e. the bellboy) handled as part of check-in. Why can't there be a human membership union that sets these automatic binding arbitration agreements on service providers on behalf of members? Is there any law preventing a class of people from creating such a customer's union?
  - vkou 1y ago
    > Why can't there be a human membership union that sets these automatic binding arbitration agreements on service providers on behalf of members? Those already exist, we call those things 'governments'.
    - idiotsecant 1y ago
      I think we got some wires crossed somewhere, my government is helping them beat me up more ...
      - cyanydeez 1y ago
        That's because another group of people made a pact with the devil, and a third group just shrugged their shoulders when everyone had a chance to nullify that pact....
      - vkou 1y ago
        It takes constant vigilance to prevent that union from being captured by management.
        bmitc 1y ago
        That's a great analogy. Government = worker's/consumer's/people's union. Management = capitalism/corporations.
        1y ago
newAccount2025 1y ago
Can’t you do a charge back? Isn’t this a key kind of protection that credit cards give you?
- yubiox 1y ago
  Only if you want to get banned from ever staying in a hotel again
  - criley2 1y ago
    Obviously charging back Hyatt won't get you banned from Hilton. And the response question would be: Why would you returned to a hotel chain that scammed you?
    - sixothree 1y ago
      Because that's where you job books when you travel?
      - lxgr 1y ago
        Then that sounds like the employers problem, though. Hopefully they audit their expense accounts for stunts like that.
        WaxProlix 1y ago
        So they check the bill and see that you incurred a $500 fine for smoking in the room they paid for? How does this help :(
        redserk 1y ago
        At some point the question is: "Do we trust the employee we've had on the books for the last few years". Fortunately, the mid-sized places I've been at generally trust the employee's story when it comes to expenses -- at least unless it becomes a pattern. If my workplace took the hotel's side for a bogus charge, I'm not sure I'd want to stay working there...
grishka 1y ago
Do hotels in the US not allow you to pay with cash any more? What if you don't have an internationally accepted card?
- jmb99 1y ago
  Generally speaking, no. Most major hotel chains require a credit card.
  - SoftTalker 1y ago
    Credit card is a proxy for an acceptable credit score. It's a filter so they can exclude irresponsible people without exposing themselves to claims of discrimination or racism. Unfortunately people who simply choose to live without using credit are caught up in that too.
    - RandomThoughts3 1y ago
      You can easily book at big chains in the US as a foreigner despite having no credit score whatsoever so I don’t think that’s it. I guess it’s probably just that a having credit card and an id card ensure that they won’t have trouble charging you if they need to. The possibility alone is probably enough to deter most people who could be tempted to commit petty things like stealing towels.
    - lxgr 1y ago
      I’ve seen some hotels actually take out an authorization hold for the deposit. That can be done on debit and credit cards.
    - maccard 1y ago
      In Europe, UK and Ireland it’s not an actual credit card - a debit card is perfectly acceptable and normal.
      - disgruntledphd2 1y ago
        Although it's better to use a credit card if possible as they put a rather large hold on it, which can wipe out your balance.
torlok 1y ago
Is this a US thing? I stay at hotels from time to time across Europe, and I always pay a fixed price either when booking or at arrival for the whole stay. Never had to enter credit card information anywhere, and I never would precisely for this reason. I put my credit card information once when booking a car at an airport and was scammed with random scratches being found at return. Can't imagine ever going through that again. One of the worst and most infuriating money exchange experiences in my life.
- ericmay 1y ago
  No, it's a common practice in most western countries and can confirm for you a list of a dozen or more hotels ranging from $100/night to $1000/night that do this in countries ranging from Ireland to France to Japan. It's really no big deal and is extremely common. In fact, France as I discovered does this at the gas stations where they put $200 or so authorizations on your card for absolutely no good reason. There are various scenarios but I think the one you are thinking of is you show up to the hotel, hand them your cash, and pay at the desk. Often times, though I have not been in a hotel that will not ask for a card, they ask you for a credit card and put an authorization on there in case you smoke in the room, or maybe turn it into spaghetti or any other random incidentals. An authorization is basically the hotel telling the credit card that they're "reserving space" so to speak on your credit limit on the card. Regarding your rental car experience, that's a common scam and again moreso seen in Europe, but not really anything to do with the method of payment. They would have just mailed you a bill for the damages instead. I guess you could ignore it.
  - seszett 1y ago
    > France as I discovered does this at the gas stations where they put $200 or so authorizations on your card for absolutely no good reason. It's the same here but I'm not sure how it could work another way? They have to make sure you have the money to pay for the fuel you're pumping, it doesn't seem weird to me. I can't imagine a pump that allows you to pump as you wish and then just begs you to pay. That works for the manned stations with low traffic only.
blibble 1y ago
what power imbalance? obviously if you give them cash deposit there's not much you can do, but with a credit card you can easily dispute the transaction I always pay my bills in full and on time, but if a merchant tries giving me the run around I will simply dispute the transaction and then the pain moves entirely to them with a credit card the power imbalance is entirely in the consumer's favour
- account42 1y ago
  This is the theory but in practice vendors can an often do retaliate by refusing to do business with you until you pay up - and since competition is barely existing in many instances that's going to be much more pain for the consumer than a credit card dispute is for the vendor.

by hansvm 1y ago

The big problem is the power imbalance. There's a reason they start your stay by putting a hold on a credit card. And even if you could charge them, they can afford a legal battle better than you.

lxgr 1y ago

Oh, that's a common misunderstanding, but they can't sue me in court – by accepting me as a customer, they accepted my binding arbitration agreement! It clearly said so on my luggage tag their authorized agent (i.e. the bellboy) handled as part of check-in.

Der_Einzige 1y ago
This is exactly the kind of subversive stuff I live for.
- refulgentis 1y ago
  Live for? Or fantasize about? :) It's a fun fantasy, but the fact we're happy to see it highlights our impotency - even a line worker sympathetic to the power imbalance would be left at "Anyways, we'll charge the fee to your card on file"
  - lxgr 1y ago
    I wonder if there's a business model for a "robo-lawyer" paired with a travel agency here: "Stay at one of these hotels using this credit card issued by us, sign this contract promising that you won't smoke there, and if the hotel tries anything funny, we'll reward you with the room rate back and a bonus" :)
    - altairprime 1y ago
      The company that issues cards to be provided to phone phishers understands this perfectly :)
nine_zeros 1y ago
>Oh, that's a common misunderstanding, but they can't sue me in court – by accepting me as a customer, they accepted my binding arbitration agreement! It clearly said so on my luggage tag their authorized agent (i.e. the bellboy) handled as part of check-in. Why can't there be a human membership union that sets these automatic binding arbitration agreements on service providers on behalf of members? Is there any law preventing a class of people from creating such a customer's union?
- vkou 1y ago
  > Why can't there be a human membership union that sets these automatic binding arbitration agreements on service providers on behalf of members? Those already exist, we call those things 'governments'.
  - idiotsecant 1y ago
    I think we got some wires crossed somewhere, my government is helping them beat me up more ...
    - cyanydeez 1y ago
      That's because another group of people made a pact with the devil, and a third group just shrugged their shoulders when everyone had a chance to nullify that pact....
    - vkou 1y ago
      It takes constant vigilance to prevent that union from being captured by management.
      - bmitc 1y ago
        That's a great analogy. Government = worker's/consumer's/people's union. Management = capitalism/corporations.
        1y ago

newAccount2025 1y ago

Can’t you do a charge back? Isn’t this a key kind of protection that credit cards give you?

yubiox 1y ago
Only if you want to get banned from ever staying in a hotel again
- criley2 1y ago
  Obviously charging back Hyatt won't get you banned from Hilton. And the response question would be: Why would you returned to a hotel chain that scammed you?
  - sixothree 1y ago
    Because that's where you job books when you travel?
    - lxgr 1y ago
      Then that sounds like the employers problem, though. Hopefully they audit their expense accounts for stunts like that.
      - WaxProlix 1y ago
        So they check the bill and see that you incurred a $500 fine for smoking in the room they paid for? How does this help :(
        redserk 1y ago
        At some point the question is: "Do we trust the employee we've had on the books for the last few years". Fortunately, the mid-sized places I've been at generally trust the employee's story when it comes to expenses -- at least unless it becomes a pattern. If my workplace took the hotel's side for a bogus charge, I'm not sure I'd want to stay working there...

grishka 1y ago

Do hotels in the US not allow you to pay with cash any more? What if you don't have an internationally accepted card?

jmb99 1y ago
Generally speaking, no. Most major hotel chains require a credit card.
- SoftTalker 1y ago
  Credit card is a proxy for an acceptable credit score. It's a filter so they can exclude irresponsible people without exposing themselves to claims of discrimination or racism. Unfortunately people who simply choose to live without using credit are caught up in that too.
  - RandomThoughts3 1y ago
    You can easily book at big chains in the US as a foreigner despite having no credit score whatsoever so I don’t think that’s it. I guess it’s probably just that a having credit card and an id card ensure that they won’t have trouble charging you if they need to. The possibility alone is probably enough to deter most people who could be tempted to commit petty things like stealing towels.
  - lxgr 1y ago
    I’ve seen some hotels actually take out an authorization hold for the deposit. That can be done on debit and credit cards.
  - maccard 1y ago
    In Europe, UK and Ireland it’s not an actual credit card - a debit card is perfectly acceptable and normal.
    - disgruntledphd2 1y ago
      Although it's better to use a credit card if possible as they put a rather large hold on it, which can wipe out your balance.

torlok 1y ago

Is this a US thing? I stay at hotels from time to time across Europe, and I always pay a fixed price either when booking or at arrival for the whole stay. Never had to enter credit card information anywhere, and I never would precisely for this reason. I put my credit card information once when booking a car at an airport and was scammed with random scratches being found at return. Can't imagine ever going through that again. One of the worst and most infuriating money exchange experiences in my life.

ericmay 1y ago
No, it's a common practice in most western countries and can confirm for you a list of a dozen or more hotels ranging from $100/night to $1000/night that do this in countries ranging from Ireland to France to Japan. It's really no big deal and is extremely common. In fact, France as I discovered does this at the gas stations where they put $200 or so authorizations on your card for absolutely no good reason. There are various scenarios but I think the one you are thinking of is you show up to the hotel, hand them your cash, and pay at the desk. Often times, though I have not been in a hotel that will not ask for a card, they ask you for a credit card and put an authorization on there in case you smoke in the room, or maybe turn it into spaghetti or any other random incidentals. An authorization is basically the hotel telling the credit card that they're "reserving space" so to speak on your credit limit on the card. Regarding your rental car experience, that's a common scam and again moreso seen in Europe, but not really anything to do with the method of payment. They would have just mailed you a bill for the damages instead. I guess you could ignore it.
- seszett 1y ago
  > France as I discovered does this at the gas stations where they put $200 or so authorizations on your card for absolutely no good reason. It's the same here but I'm not sure how it could work another way? They have to make sure you have the money to pay for the fuel you're pumping, it doesn't seem weird to me. I can't imagine a pump that allows you to pump as you wish and then just begs you to pay. That works for the manned stations with low traffic only.

blibble 1y ago

what power imbalance? obviously if you give them cash deposit there's not much you can do, but with a credit card you can easily dispute the transaction I always pay my bills in full and on time, but if a merchant tries giving me the run around I will simply dispute the transaction and then the pain moves entirely to them with a credit card the power imbalance is entirely in the consumer's favour

account42 1y ago
This is the theory but in practice vendors can an often do retaliate by refusing to do business with you until you pay up - and since competition is barely existing in many instances that's going to be much more pain for the consumer than a credit card dispute is for the vendor.