5 ms·

DHS: Filming Cops, ICE Officers Is a 'Violent Tactic'

112 points by mdhb 1y ago

jmclnx 1y ago
As opposed to what, filming violations to the US Constitution ?
CoastalCoder 1y ago
[flagged]
- ctoth 1y ago
  One way to not be in the dangerous situation of being a hated goon is to avoid being a hated goon. Hated goon advice there.
  - _pdcz 1y ago
    [dead]
tantalor 1y ago
That's rich because conservative and libertarian groups (especially the intellectual wing) have long opposed the idea that "speech can be violence" [1][2][3] [1] https://adflegal.org/article/speech-not-violence-and-violence-not-speech/ https://adflegal.org/article/speech-not-violence-and-violenc... [2] https://www.thefire.org/research-learn/national-speech-index-october-2024 https://www.thefire.org/research-learn/national-speech-index... [3] https://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2017/07/why-its-a-bad-idea-to-tell-students-words-are-violence/533970/ https://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2017/07/why-it... Now they want us to believe that cameras are threats of violence.
- generalizations 1y ago
  [flagged]
  - bryanrasmussen 1y ago
    sure, but self-defense is also a form of violence.
- _pdcz 1y ago
  [dead]
anigbrowl 1y ago
Last week I saw some dashcam video of a masked ICE agent (or similar, they don't have uniforms or proper identification) leaping out of a car and pointing a gun at someone who photographed the car's license plate. Appellate courts in the First, Third, Fifth, Seventh, Ninth, and Eleventh Circuits have all held there's a first amendment right to film police, and that law enforcement officers do not have an expectation of privacy in the performance of their duties.
- ctoth 1y ago
  Obviously this is clearly and demonstrably because those courts are odd.
- supportengineer 1y ago
  This only matters if the Executive Branch is answerable to the courts, which clearly they are not any more.
- JumpCrisscross 1y ago
  > dashcam video of a masked ICE agent (or similar, they don't have uniforms or proper identification) leaping out of a car and pointing a gun at someone who photographed the car's license plate We're unfortunately waiting for one of those ICE agents, on camera, to pull the trigger and kill or brutally maim someone doing nothing other than filming, or worse an innocent bystander. It doesn't seem like our political system or even high court currently have the coherence to deal with evil in less-stark terms. (To my knowledge, there isn't a firearms proficiency requirement for ICE agents. And a basic rule of firearm safety is you don't point your gun at anything you don't eventually want to get shot.)
  - clipsy 1y ago
    > We're unfortunately waiting for one of those ICE agents, on camera, to pull the trigger and kill or brutally maim someone doing nothing other than filming, or worse an innocent bystander. It doesn't seem like our political system or even high court currently have the coherence to deal with evil in less-stark terms. They won't deal with it then, either.
ethagnawl 1y ago
"They'd rather see me in a cell than me with my cell and a different story to tell." - B. Dolan - Film the Police [2012] - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hyT1buoyTnY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hyT1buoyTnY
ews 1y ago
It is working, we need to keep filming.
k310 1y ago
ICE "officers" are almost always. A. Without badges, or have badges without numbers. Toy-store style. B. Are faceless. C. Do not have names displayed. D. Do not have warrants. These were mentioned, IIRC, in an ACLU complaint which resulted in restraining orders (see [0]) though the order addressed two points not specifically related to the above. > The first TRO bars immigration agents from stopping individuals without reasonable suspicion and from relying on four factors – alone or in combination – including apparent race or ethnicity; speaking Spanish or English with an accent; presence in a particular location like a bus stop, car wash, or agricultural site; or the work the person does. > The second TRO orders DHS to provide access to counsel on weekdays, weekends, and holidays for people who are detained in B-18, the federal building in downtown Los Angeles. IANAL, but the four points I mentioned above are beyond acceptable police behavior, and likely unconstitutional. People have a right to document both daily public police actions and ones that are beyond the pale and likely unconstitutional. Regular police officers have badges with numbers, faces, names and warrants. [0] https://www.aclusocal.org/en/press-releases/court-prohibits-federal-government-racial-profiling-denying-access-counsel https://www.aclusocal.org/en/press-releases/court-prohibits-...
- JumpCrisscross 1y ago
  > the four points I mentioned above are beyond acceptable police behavior, and likely unconstitutional Do ICE agents get free pass to ignore state laws by their federal organisation?
  - adgjlsfhk1 1y ago
    with the current courts they do.
    - JumpCrisscross 1y ago
      > with the current courts they do Source? (Either for it not having been the case before or for it being the case right now. Ideally with case citations; trying to dig deeper than vibes.)
apwell23 1y ago
> the 700% increase touted in press releases reflected a mere 69 more assaults on officers than during the same period in 2024. Hardly worth remarking on. Classic case of ICE lying with stats.
throwaway638383 1y ago
What is the current SOTA advice on what to do if 1) approached and asked questions by ICE, 2) detained by ICE; broken down by A) “I’m a US citizen”, B) “I’m not a US citizen, have legal status to be in the US”, C) “I’m not a US citizen, don’t have legal status to be in the US”?
- JumpCrisscross 1y ago
  The main thing you need is someone on the outside who will fight for you.
- 1659447091 1y ago
  https://www.aclu.org/know-your-rights/immigrants-rights https://www.aclu.org/know-your-rights/immigrants-rights
hermitcrab 1y ago
If some masked, unidentified guy grabs you and tells you to get in his car, how are you supposed to know if he is an ICE agent or a kidnapper? Scary stuff.
- xnx 1y ago
  And enjoy your jail time for assaulting an officer if you resist.
  - JumpCrisscross 1y ago
    > enjoy your jail time for assaulting an officer if you resist Are any of these charges sticking? We haen't even gotten to the phase where the victims start filing civil cases for money damages.
    - ujkhsjkdhf234 1y ago
      Just getting charged is enough to ruin your life. Lose your job from being thrown in jail missing work without anyone being notified.
- npteljes 1y ago
  Scary stuff indeed: https://edition.cnn.com/2025/02/04/us/ice-impersonators-on-the-rise-arrests-made-as-authorities-issue-national-warning https://edition.cnn.com/2025/02/04/us/ice-impersonators-on-t...
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
deadbabe 1y ago
[flagged]
- phyzome 1y ago
  Yup, vigilantism is the inevitable and unfortunate result of this kind of bullshit.
greatwhitenorth 1y ago
[flagged]

112 points by mdhb 1y ago

jmclnx 1y ago

As opposed to what, filming violations to the US Constitution ?

CoastalCoder 1y ago

[flagged]

ctoth 1y ago
One way to not be in the dangerous situation of being a hated goon is to avoid being a hated goon. Hated goon advice there.
- _pdcz 1y ago
  [dead]

tantalor 1y ago

That's rich because conservative and libertarian groups (especially the intellectual wing) have long opposed the idea that "speech can be violence" [1][2][3] [1] https://adflegal.org/article/speech-not-violence-and-violence-not-speech/ https://adflegal.org/article/speech-not-violence-and-violenc... [2] https://www.thefire.org/research-learn/national-speech-index-october-2024 https://www.thefire.org/research-learn/national-speech-index... [3] https://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2017/07/why-its-a-bad-idea-to-tell-students-words-are-violence/533970/ https://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2017/07/why-it... Now they want us to believe that cameras are threats of violence.

generalizations 1y ago
[flagged]
- bryanrasmussen 1y ago
  sure, but self-defense is also a form of violence.
_pdcz 1y ago
[dead]

anigbrowl 1y ago

Last week I saw some dashcam video of a masked ICE agent (or similar, they don't have uniforms or proper identification) leaping out of a car and pointing a gun at someone who photographed the car's license plate. Appellate courts in the First, Third, Fifth, Seventh, Ninth, and Eleventh Circuits have all held there's a first amendment right to film police, and that law enforcement officers do not have an expectation of privacy in the performance of their duties.

ctoth 1y ago
Obviously this is clearly and demonstrably because those courts are odd.
supportengineer 1y ago
This only matters if the Executive Branch is answerable to the courts, which clearly they are not any more.
JumpCrisscross 1y ago
> dashcam video of a masked ICE agent (or similar, they don't have uniforms or proper identification) leaping out of a car and pointing a gun at someone who photographed the car's license plate We're unfortunately waiting for one of those ICE agents, on camera, to pull the trigger and kill or brutally maim someone doing nothing other than filming, or worse an innocent bystander. It doesn't seem like our political system or even high court currently have the coherence to deal with evil in less-stark terms. (To my knowledge, there isn't a firearms proficiency requirement for ICE agents. And a basic rule of firearm safety is you don't point your gun at anything you don't eventually want to get shot.)
- clipsy 1y ago
  > We're unfortunately waiting for one of those ICE agents, on camera, to pull the trigger and kill or brutally maim someone doing nothing other than filming, or worse an innocent bystander. It doesn't seem like our political system or even high court currently have the coherence to deal with evil in less-stark terms. They won't deal with it then, either.

ethagnawl 1y ago

"They'd rather see me in a cell than me with my cell and a different story to tell." - B. Dolan - Film the Police [2012] - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hyT1buoyTnY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hyT1buoyTnY

ews 1y ago

It is working, we need to keep filming.

k310 1y ago

ICE "officers" are almost always. A. Without badges, or have badges without numbers. Toy-store style. B. Are faceless. C. Do not have names displayed. D. Do not have warrants. These were mentioned, IIRC, in an ACLU complaint which resulted in restraining orders (see [0]) though the order addressed two points not specifically related to the above. > The first TRO bars immigration agents from stopping individuals without reasonable suspicion and from relying on four factors – alone or in combination – including apparent race or ethnicity; speaking Spanish or English with an accent; presence in a particular location like a bus stop, car wash, or agricultural site; or the work the person does. > The second TRO orders DHS to provide access to counsel on weekdays, weekends, and holidays for people who are detained in B-18, the federal building in downtown Los Angeles. IANAL, but the four points I mentioned above are beyond acceptable police behavior, and likely unconstitutional. People have a right to document both daily public police actions and ones that are beyond the pale and likely unconstitutional. Regular police officers have badges with numbers, faces, names and warrants. [0] https://www.aclusocal.org/en/press-releases/court-prohibits-federal-government-racial-profiling-denying-access-counsel https://www.aclusocal.org/en/press-releases/court-prohibits-...

JumpCrisscross 1y ago
> the four points I mentioned above are beyond acceptable police behavior, and likely unconstitutional Do ICE agents get free pass to ignore state laws by their federal organisation?
- adgjlsfhk1 1y ago
  with the current courts they do.
  - JumpCrisscross 1y ago
    > with the current courts they do Source? (Either for it not having been the case before or for it being the case right now. Ideally with case citations; trying to dig deeper than vibes.)

apwell23 1y ago

> the 700% increase touted in press releases reflected a mere 69 more assaults on officers than during the same period in 2024. Hardly worth remarking on. Classic case of ICE lying with stats.

throwaway638383 1y ago

What is the current SOTA advice on what to do if 1) approached and asked questions by ICE, 2) detained by ICE; broken down by A) “I’m a US citizen”, B) “I’m not a US citizen, have legal status to be in the US”, C) “I’m not a US citizen, don’t have legal status to be in the US”?

JumpCrisscross 1y ago
The main thing you need is someone on the outside who will fight for you.
1659447091 1y ago
https://www.aclu.org/know-your-rights/immigrants-rights https://www.aclu.org/know-your-rights/immigrants-rights

hermitcrab 1y ago

If some masked, unidentified guy grabs you and tells you to get in his car, how are you supposed to know if he is an ICE agent or a kidnapper? Scary stuff.

xnx 1y ago
And enjoy your jail time for assaulting an officer if you resist.
- JumpCrisscross 1y ago
  > enjoy your jail time for assaulting an officer if you resist Are any of these charges sticking? We haen't even gotten to the phase where the victims start filing civil cases for money damages.
  - ujkhsjkdhf234 1y ago
    Just getting charged is enough to ruin your life. Lose your job from being thrown in jail missing work without anyone being notified.
npteljes 1y ago
Scary stuff indeed: https://edition.cnn.com/2025/02/04/us/ice-impersonators-on-the-rise-arrests-made-as-authorities-issue-national-warning https://edition.cnn.com/2025/02/04/us/ice-impersonators-on-t...
deleted 1y ago
[deleted]

deadbabe 1y ago

[flagged]

phyzome 1y ago
Yup, vigilantism is the inevitable and unfortunate result of this kind of bullshit.

greatwhitenorth 1y ago

[flagged]