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A little-known Microsoft program could expose the Defense Department to hackers
- jmclnx 1y ago> Pentagon bans foreign citizens from accessing highly sensitive data, but Microsoft bypasses this by using engineers in China ... The fun of using Cloud type systems. I expect AWS, Google and maybe IBM Cloud has the same issue. Save $ now, pay lots more later.
- seviu 1y agoSo much bringing manufacturing to America but I see little regarding developing software solely in America. Not sure if this is a debate the current administration has for the future or even if they are aware of it. Not trying to give my opinion or deciding whether one thing is better or worse. Just genuine curiosity.
- delfinom 1y agoBecause "manufacturing in America" is to continue having a peasant class to buy goods. Outsourcing software development is 100% intended to surpress the peasants managing to go up higher on the ladder. Many companies doing "AI layoffs" are in fact just outsourcing to the usual countries overseas even more.
- dmix 1y ago"AI layoffs" is mostly just media spin + a useful excuse by execs when the company isn't performing well. Looking through the list few mention anything about laying off engineers because of AI https://www.forbes.com/sites/martineparis/2025/07/09/sweeping-layoffs-hit-tech-and-media-giants-citing-ai-take-over/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/martineparis/2025/07/09/sweepin... > IBM CEO Says AI Has Replaced Hundreds of Workers but Created New Programming, Sales Jobs (laying off mostly administrative/HR people) https://www.wsj.com/articles/ibm-ceo-says-ai-has-replaced-hundreds-of-workers-but-created-new-programming-sales-jobs-54ea6b58 https://www.wsj.com/articles/ibm-ceo-says-ai-has-replaced-hu... > Intel plans to lay off up to a fifth of its factory workers, an enormous cutback that will have a profound effect on one of the chipmaker’s core businesses. https://www.oregonlive.com/silicon-forest/2025/06/intel-will-lay-off-15-to-20-of-its-factory-workers-memo-says.html https://www.oregonlive.com/silicon-forest/2025/06/intel-will... Microsoft laid off mostly gaming from failed acquisitions + sales/marketing (one of which I know personally)
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- Kenji 1y ago[dead]
- drcongo 1y agoThere's a lot of Microsoft programs that could expose the defense department to hackers.
- belter 1y agoIt's called Windows for a reason...
- svaha1728 1y agoThe Microsoft tech debt dumpster fire continues.
- charcircuit 1y agoDid I miss it, but what do these "digital escorts" actually do. The article doesn't seem to actually explain it. Edit: It's people who watch over what foriegn engineers are doing.
- nhinck3 1y agoI'm guessing a pair of eyes over your shoulder (or virtually watching a session) as you do work near or with sensitive data or systems.
- richardwhiuk 1y agoIt's more involved than that - the US national is the person who has control of the keyboard, the non US national views the screen share and instructs them what to do.
- nhinck3 1y agoMakes sense, but it really does seems like a silly way to work around the security policies.
- stackskipton 1y agoIt's cost saving exercise. Microsoft does not have to hired skilled US Citizen workers who command higher salary and can use cheaper labor in both US citizen and overseas worker. Basically, stockholders get another yacht, national security gets screwed.
- perching_aix 1y agoThat's not really what the article supposes unless I missed something, or do you have a different source? Hilarious if true. Edit: yes it does, I just didn't read it all the way.
- apical_dendrite 1y ago
- IAmBroom 1y ago[flagged]
- waste_monk 1y agoIt was Clippy, back from the dead.
- opello 1y agoThe "program" is a logistical one and not a software one in which Microsoft employs Chinese software engineers to be "overseen" by US citizens that have security clearances, but not necessarily the requisite experience for say a code review level of oversight.
- fuzzfactor 1y ago>not a software Appears the program has unfixed bugs and security holes anyway :\
- datadrivenangel 1y agoSo the digital escorts are basically human kvm switches to firewall things off... seems like a bad program.
- jasonthorsness 1y agoThis article is trying to show it as more scary than it is. The key points are: this is systems up to secret level only and sessions are recorded and watched by an escort; the escort is not as tech savvy as the engineers performing maintenance (who are also Microsoft employees, from many countries of origin) but there are other controls too; they can’t just run unsigned code etc. The top secret stuff isn’t using this system; it’s using cleared staff.
- TruffleLabs 1y agoSecret is still sensitive info and, if released, can cause harm or disruption. Spying is not based on finding a single discovery of top secret information but a continuous process of pulling various pieces together. A "secret" item by itself may not cause bad things to happen but combined with other information could result in far greater damage.
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- nonameiguess 1y agoThis doesn't reflect what the article says. It only includes unclassified systems, not systems up to secret. That means anything from IL2 to IL5 (secret is impact level 6). In practice, IL2 is basically open access anyway, so it's really IL4 and IL5 as those levels actually restrict access. IL5 can include controlled unclassified information, but that's the highest possible. Remote access to IL5 systems also requires either a common access card issued by the DoD or personal PKI issued by an approved CA that still has to verify your background and identity in person before issuing you a certificate pair. Along with everyone else they interviewed apparently, I had no idea this program even existed, but there have always been similar programs for other kinds of maintenance and support personnel. The people who repair the toilets and refrigerators in a SCIF don't have clearances. They get an escort, and everyone else in the building gets a warning before anyone needing an escort comes in, telling them to put away any sensitive data and either work on something unclassified or turn off your monitors and stop working completely until these people are done and leave again.
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- Domainzsite 1y ago[dead]
- beoberha 1y agoI work in azure and this is wildly mischaracterizing the risk, though it is news to me that there are non-US nationals doing escorts for the non-airgapped government clouds. I assume it is OK to say this: Microsoft has a “China” cloud and a non-airgapped “US Government” cloud. It is standard practice that engineers making production touches in the clouds have to be “escorted” by vendors who make sure you’re not doing anything malicious. I assume the article is implying that these vendors for the US Gov cloud may be Chinese nationals. As Jason mentions in another comment, anything actually requiring clearance is serviced by the airgapped clouds and only folks with clearance are able to operate there. Edit: misread the article but the third paragraph stands. The government is totally aware of where the operator boundary lies and this is still wildly mischaracterized.
- apical_dendrite 1y agoHow does the vendor make sure you're not doing anything malicious if they don't have the skills to understand the change? It sounds like the issue here isn't that the vendor doing the escort is a Chinese national, it's that the engineer making the change is a Chinese national in China and they're using this escort system to check a box saying that because the changes themselves are being made by US nationals, they won't send PII or passwords back to China. But fundamentally a system where an untrusted person gets a less technical person to make a change for them seems inherently extremely high-risk.
- beoberha 1y agoYep, I totally read the article incorrectly. You’re spot on and honestly I’ve asked myself the same question - though less from a national security perspective and more a “what’s the point of this extra tax to mitigate this incident”
- opello 1y agoIt seems pretty reasonable to consider the national security perspective when it seems like the potential risk is organized, nation state actors, and the potential mitigation is only the actual depth of security practices at play. To put it another way, if the air gap is the only thing preventing the malicious system from doing its malicious thing, it seems like "defense in depth" is working but there's still a problem to solve. That is, making the malicious system not malicious. > anything actually requiring clearance is serviced by the airgapped clouds and only folks with clearance are able to operate there It seems like "operate" may be doing a lot of work here.
- MisterTea 1y agoI am flabbergasted that the United States government does not have a requirement that anyone who touches their systems MUST be a vetted US citizen.
- ToucanLoucan 1y agoI mean what does vetting even mean anymore? Our President is a convicted felon, our head of HHS thinks bad humors cause illness and vaccines cause Autism, our head of Education is dismantling her own organization with the approved sign off of the Supreme Court, of whom a solid percentage are accused sex offenders, and I could keep going with the utter circus our Government is currently. Not only are qualifications not required they are apparently actively discouraged in favor of nepotism and connections.
- davidw 1y agoThe guy who heads up the Defense department was (drunkenly?) texting out secret plans to a journalist.
- galangalalgol 1y agoAnd the DNI regularly repeats Russian propaganda meant for Russian internal media... If it seems odd to anyone that our president seemed genuinely surprised that Putin was "tapping him along" consider who advises him. And our two most recent presidents both liked keeping classified documents in insecure locations. The situation is ridiculous and everyone just seems to shrug. I don't know if our overlords got way worse at this or they just stopped caring. We can't even get a high quality supervillain to rule us anymore.
- nosioptar 1y agoI knew a guy with clearance that cashed out 100% of his retirement to fly to Moscow to meet a sex worker he'd be involved with online. It never affected his clearance. Dude would run his mouth about stuff he shouldn't tell people under normal circumstances. There's no way he didn't tell the sex worker secret stuff.
- DarkmSparks 1y agowell, I guess this probably explains the OPM breach. I wondered how they got hold of even the basic details needed for that, seems Microsoft was sending them targets by email voluntarily. Worst part is I'm not really surprised.
- jwithington 1y agoi don't really understand why folks are downplaying this in the comments: some engineers who write the code for production US systems that contain controlled unclassified information live in china. the US government was unaware that this was happening because MSFT hid it from them. as a result, govt stakeholders are/were unable to assess the risk. all MSFT ATO's should be revoked. some of the comments point out that foreign workers will help maintain facilities overseas, but govt stakeholders are aware of this, assess the risk, and implement risk controls. but shady M$FT hid this from govt, and that amplifies the problem! disclaimer: am google
- nadirhadad747 1y ago[dead]