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Colombia seizes first unmanned narco-submarine with Starlink antenna
- tczMUFlmoNk 1y agoFascinating. Does the Starlink antenna work well underwater? Or was this sub surfacing to communicate?
- poink 1y agoNarco subs are mostly/entirely submerged to reduce visibility, but they almost all still operate at the surface
- progre 1y agoThe wavelengths used in satelite communication are entirely absorbed by water. I think the sub would have to surface to use the antenna.
- threemux 1y agoIt's not a submarine and I wish news outlets would stop saying "narco sub". It's a surface vessel designed to have only a very small part above water. Building an actual submarine capable of submerged travel for lengthy periods is quite difficult.
- more_corn 1y agoSemi-submersible wild be a more accurate description. Most of the boat is under water, usually only an inch or so down so it’s hard to see from a boat.
- idiotsecant 1y agoThis strikes me as not a very good technique. With minimal help from starlink law enforcement could find every sub out there. Anyhow, what does this buy you that an offline gps connected controller does not?
- drakenot 1y agoRemote tracking?
- zarzavat 1y agoJust a simple radio transmitter could fulfil that function.
- Retric 1y agoAt the cost of it being really obvious where you are. However the bigger draw is probably high bandwidth two way communication globally. No need for an obvious route as you can use GPS to get near US waters before turning it on, while still being in control of location of delivery or even meet up with it on the open ocean.
- zarzavat 1y agoNot as obvious as a Starlink transmitter though! Sending the position only requires a few bits, let's say 48. A position update requires even less, depending on how far it could have travelled since the last known position. At such low data rates you could hide the transmission quite effectively.
- 0cf8612b2e1e 1y agoI also wonder if you could have a visible surface vessel (e.g. fishing boat) which acts as a navigation beacon for the sub. Sub can just follow the beacon without any active communication of its own. If enforcement appears, sub will destructively sink to avoid revealing the operation.
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- aussieguy1234 1y agoI thought drone delivery was years off, but I guess that only matters if the law is being followed.
- thaumasiotes 1y agoDrone delivery is a pretty different thing. Drones are clearly visible to everyone. Submarines are... not that.
- Archonical 1y agoI think the person you are replying to was making a joke.
- LexGray 1y agoWikipedia says unmanned underwater vehicles fall in the drone category as do unmanned surface vehicles. Speaking of which does Ukraine use weaponized RC vehicles and roaming unmanned anti-ship subs? I would think you would get a larger payload and better damage from the undercarriage.
- thephyber 1y agoI think you are making mental assumptions that aren’t justified. Narco drone subs are delivery vehicles, just not for the “last mile” to the end user. They are more like self-driving long haul trucks that don’t care about international borders.
- taneq 1y agoLike most things, the tech is ahead of the legislation. ;)
- stickfigure 1y agoJust legalize it already. This is stupid.
- all2 1y agoThe outcomes are bad for all parties involved.
- whatever1 1y agoEven if they do, the cartels already own huge man & firepower. They will just move on to the next thing, maybe coffee, avocados, oil whatever. When you have accumulated so much power you can demand cash from the world around you.
- stickfigure 1y agoCoffee, avocados, and oil aren't illegal. But I'm pretty sure if you banned coffee it would spawn criminal gangs that made 1920s prohibition look tame. There's no substitute for the margins you can get in the illegal drug trade. Take away the primary source of funding and you make it much easier to break the gangs. We've already gone through this. Just legalize it already.
- whatever1 1y agoThey could set a 1000% tax on the coffee produced, if they can consolidate control. Latin America is 50% of the world coffee production. What will Starbucks / Nestle do? They will just pay up. They can even go against the families of the execs to make their case about the new price.
- torbid 1y agoThey tried this before with fruit. The US companies just sold their interest in production and have plenty of other options for acquisition if they try to tax beyond the relative ease of South America verse anywhere else in the global south. I would agree that letting black market bs continue will eventually lead to groups that could threaten global control on random other commodities but that's no reason kick the can further down this road.
- LargoLasskhyfv 1y agoGeorge Foy - Contraband Bokon Taylay!
- julianeon 1y agoI'm kind of curious how much this matters to Colombia now. For this who haven't been following the drug wars, most of the action, and money, has moved to Mexico. If you only know this stuff through pop culture, Mexico today is what Colombia was in the 80's and 90's: the violence, level of corruption, money flowing through, etc.
- sleepyguy 1y agoColombia is the main producer of illegal cocaine, responsible for 70 to 80 percent of the world's supply. It is the largest producer in the world.
- julianeon 1y agoColombia produces the raw materials, so it is "essential" in that sense, but that is not where the money and power is now (that's Mexico). Kind of like how your iPhone is manufactured in China, but the world's-richest-company status goes to Apple, in the US. Quoting an AI summary (because I'm looking for a quick answer here): Mexico has become the primary financial beneficiary of cocaine money today. Mexican cartels now control the most lucrative parts of the supply chain - smuggling into the US market and wholesale distribution. They've essentially become the "middlemen" who buy cocaine from Colombian producers at relatively low prices and then sell it in the US at much higher prices, capturing most of the profit margin. Colombia remains important as a producer of coca and cocaine, but the economics have changed dramatically. Colombian groups now often function more as suppliers to Mexican cartels rather than controlling the entire supply chain themselves. The raw materials and initial processing generate far less revenue than the final distribution stages.
- cammikebrown 1y agoCocaine is still produced overwhelmingly in South America. Yes, it does have to go through Mexico. But the start of the trade route is Colombia, Bolivia, and Peru.
- muststopmyths 1y ago
- rkagerer 1y ago"The vessel was not carrying drugs" Why wouldn't they track it and wait until it rendezvoused with people they could arrest? Also, today I learned it's illegal to operate a semi-submersible in Colombia.
- achow 1y agoPerhaps because they watched it long enough to know that it is not going to rendezvous with anyone, and if they wait longer it may turn around and they will lose sight of it?
- LorenPechtel 1y agoIt very well might have a camera--they knew they had been seen and couldn't just tail it.
- 93po 1y agoit'd be really silly to have a long distance anything with full starlink bandwidth and not transmit images or video. they would have seen law enforcement catch it and poke at it for sure. and even if it was just telemetry, they'd see it was stationary for some period of time, and maybe even detect it was out of the water for a prolonged period of time
- DanielVZ 1y agoI wonder how much of this is just a publicity stunt. Last time I dove deep into studying corruption in Latin America at University, Colombia was pretty much captive to the cartels. Hope it has gotten better now but I’m not sure if that’s the case given the massive Colombian diaspora that keeps increasing.
- mdhb 1y agoI just came across this podcast in the last week after wondering what ever happened to the FARC and AUC (right wing death squads) after the peace deal. How did things end up playing out relative compared to what was expected and feared at the time. It’s a pretty batshit story that focuses on what became of the right wing death squads (they run the start of the cocaine supply chain it turns out among many other things) that’s extremely well researched and has amazing access. A strong recommendation from me https://insightcrime.org/audio-from-the-ground-up/the-shadow-of-el-dorado-podcast/ https://insightcrime.org/audio-from-the-ground-up/the-shadow...
- atonse 1y agoWhat’s the purpose of starlink? Can’t be for GPS?
- madaxe_again 1y agoIt’s a space based data network, used for internet access.
- atonse 1y agoRight I get that. Sorry my question wasn’t clear. But you could theoretically build a drone that would guide itself to a destination with just GPS right? It would potentially be even easier with water? Do you even need the two way command and control?
- 15155 1y agoIn theory, yes, in practice this probably requires engineering beyond what is available to these organizations (or the cost profile of the vessel.) These aren't autonomous true submarines, they're semi-submersibles. Weather and surface conditions will vary (potentially greatly) along the route.
- inemesitaffia 1y agoSearch "Magura drone boat Ukraine"
- thephyber 1y agoRemote command & control. Drone submarine doesn’t require life support systems so it can be smaller, simpler, and stay submerged longer.
- selkin 1y agoOnly this isn’t a submarine, as it operates at surface and doesn’t dive. This is semi-submersible. When built right, it’s hard to detect from a boat. I guess the goal of automation here is like it always is: remove the cost of human labor.
- Scoundreller 1y ago> No drugs were found That’s some level of confidence on the part of the Colombian military. I thought it was still customary to declare at least half otherwise nobody would believe you.
- mdhb 1y agoIt’s possible they interdicted this on a test run.
- supertrope 1y agoSome smuggling submarines are towed behind a boat. When the authorities stop the boat the smugglers cut the towing cable and sink the submarine.
- thakoppno 1y agoI wonder if the alleged perpetrators are reading this thread? Are there any comments that would help with the next revision? I think both conjectures are likely true.
- 0cf8612b2e1e 1y agoI am wondering why they used the link so much that it was able to be used against them. Submersible loses benefits if it requires an external service. Launch. Submerge. Drunkenly move in the direction of the destination. If N days since last check-in and/or uncertainty in location, ping mothership. Repeat. Only lean on communication channel for final handoff stage.
- immibis 1y ago> Launch. Submerge. Drunkenly I thought they were smuggling cocaine, not acid. (this is like the second time this week someone has spelled out LSD on HN and it's been relevant)
- more_corn 1y agoTo that end I suspect that tracking starlink used in an unmanned narco sub would be trivial for an insider at the company. My first thought was “I wonder if the movement and activity pattern would be unique. Yes probably. If unique could a script be run to pinpoint them? Yes probably.” If law enforcement has tasked someone with doing this (likely and legal) there’s high likelihood that any future narcosub using starlink will be intercepted. So to anyone on either side of this arms race: “you’re welcome”
- willvarfar 1y agoThe definitive source for this stuff - he literally wrote the book on it - is H I Sutton http://www.hisutton.com/ http://www.hisutton.com/ He does videos on youtube too https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rO-VQllYIZo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rO-VQllYIZo Its very likely the mainstream media pick up this stuff because they follow him :D
- blackhaj7 1y agoWow, that website has some interesting stuff on it!
- Roark66 1y agoNext one will lie 300km of it's own fiber optic cable.
- cyanydeez 1y agoThe next one after that will have a hologram of donald trump and atomatically try to bribe the officials with a detention center and bitcoins.
- bob1029 1y agoI wonder what it's like being a developer / systems engineer for the cartel.
- arthurcolle 1y agoProbably pretty scary
- dawatchusay 1y agoI imagine you couldn’t keep pushing deadlines out indefinitely like we can in American software companies.
- treebeard901 1y agoI have always wanted to do this but it's not like they post on LinkedIn
- wiradikusuma 1y agoI'm sure it's very rewarding, but I'm also sure it's a one-way street. So either enjoy your single life while it lasts, and/or use crypto to channel your income to people you care, without being able to enjoy it _with_ them for their own safety.
- greenavocado 1y agoIn the future millions of kilometers of cartel owned fiber optic will be laid from Columbia to the United States
- afthonos 1y agoColumbia is in the United States. Colombia is not.
- hugoromano 1y agoWrong antenna choice—should've used Starlink Mini to avoid motor damage from oscillation and salt exposure. Some suggest fiber optics instead of satellite comms, but these aren't submarines—they're boats, and autopilot technology is already reliable. Not sure why real-time communication is necessary; a "fire and forget" approach would suffice to reach the intended target.
- rozhok 1y agoStarlink dish does not require "leg" with motors for proper operation.
- hugoromano 1y ago"Actuated Starlink models are not recommended for in-motion use due to safety risks."– Starlink note on oceanic operation. https://www.starlink.com/support/article/952e770f-570e-d984-5014-35ae2add51c7 https://www.starlink.com/support/article/952e770f-570e-d984-...
- lordnacho 1y agoWhy not make a solar-electric narcosub? That way you don't need fuel, and you're not relying on an IC engine with a bunch of moving parts, and that has a heat signature. The sun is shining in the ocean that these cartels are sailing in anyway, so there should be power. Steer with GPS, that way you are only listening. I wouldn't rely on Starlink, it seems like something that could be discovered easily. Any authority that had a map of where legit ships are could filter down to the mysterious Starlinks that are in the middle of the water, but near a remote coast, having traveled from Colombia, not on a known vessel. Maybe if you need the comms, you rely on radio. Whatever the ham radio people use could perhaps be made into something. You don't need a lot of bandwidth anyway. I guess the question is economics, then. How many trips could you get on a little boat that has a solar panel, electric engine, a battery, GPS, and a radio? And what would that cost?
- kjksf 1y agoBecause solar panel math doesn't work. It's the same reason it makes no sense to put solar panels on a car: the solar panels would add minutes of driving daily. You would need massive area of solar panels to power a sub which is obviously not workable if you want to be stealthy.
- lordnacho 1y agoBut I'm thinking of a sub that is mostly just a solar panel. You don't need to be able to put a person in it? Don't you get a few hundred watts from a square meter?
- 15155 1y agoYou need far more than a few hundred watts to move something in the open water, and these semi-submersibles aren't typically more than 30' vessels. The math doesn't work out.
- mbirth 1y agoRCTestFlight begs to differ: > 72hrs On My Unlimited Range Solar Boat > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qc2PFExZXas https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qc2PFExZXas
- yieldcrv 1y agoDecoy
- yieldcrv 1y agoone thing I like about permissionless finance is that operations like these can be publicly traded, specifically for aggregate forecasts of value and price discovery I dont like how publicly traded status is put on a pedestal and treated like a reward everything should have price discovery