12 ms·

Microsoft's big lie: Your computer is fine, and you don't need to buy a new one

67 points by FlipperPA 1y ago

FlipperPA 1y ago
Microsoft's latest lie is primed to created the largest single E-waste event in human history, argues Timothy Allen, Principal Engineer at the Wharton School, in an article for Technical.ly. The article gives practical suggestions, and argues the migration from Windows 10 to Linux Mint is easier than Windows 10 to Windows 11.
- kgwxd 1y ago
  > and argues the migration from Windows 10 to Linux Mint is easier than Windows 10 to Windows 11. This message needs to stop. I use both heavily, because 1. I need to work and 2. I believe it's my duty to attempt to escape the prison MS/Apple/et al have built around us. But running Linux is fucking hard, unless all you need is available in a browser, and even then... If someone is going in expecting an easy replacement, they're going to leave the second it's not. If they go in believing it's a fight for our collective souls, they might be willing to join the rebellion.
  - fainpul 1y ago
    People are also struggling with Windows (any version). Especially installing programs (clicking through wizards, answering lots of questions they don't understand) and installing device drivers (how to even know what to do, to the get a device working? where to find drivers?) are often too much for non-technical users on Windows. Both of these are much easier (or unnecessary) on most Linux distros. No matter which OS they use, they will sometimes have to ask someone more knowledgable to solve some problems.
    - baal80spam 1y ago
      > installing device drivers This is not an issue for many, many years now. > Both of these are much easier (or unnecessary) on most Linux distros. Oh, now I know you are joking.
      - kgwxd 1y ago
        The situation is very hit or miss, I assume the downvoters don't have many problems because they're probably smart about the machines they try to put linux on. Just this month, I put Linux Mint on an old dell laptop, and a custom built PC with a 1080 ti in it. The laptop worked perfect, wifi worked out of the box, and it ran much smoother than it did with Windows 10. The desktop was a pain because none of the 3 usb wifi devices I already had, worked out of the box. I started down the path of following some guides that got 2 of them "working" with the same steps, but they both behaved horribly. I gave up and ordered a device known to work with Linux for $50 because it just wasn't worth my time. It's connection speed is even faster than it runs on my windows machine, but there are frequent "blips" in the connection. Gah! Nothing is more demotivating than having trouble loading the web page trying to show you how to fix your networking issues. The video card seems to work fine but none of the games I want to play via steam work nearly as smooth as I hoped, and they're old games, the newest one just turned 10 yo. I love what Steam is doing, and I'm sure I could get a lot of the games working pretty good with some more effort, but it's not the cakewalk it's often hyped up to be. I decided to just use it for old emulators, and stick to my Windows machine for other games. On top of all that, it feels just about as "slow" as it did with Windows for basic operations. Again, I'm sure I could do some optimizing and get it blazing fast, but I don't have the time for that when I've already got things generally working fine on other machines.
  - moooo99 1y ago
    > But running Linux is fucking hard, unless all you need is available in a browser, and even then... For some it is, for others it isn‘t. It really heavily depends on what you want to do with it. I have migrated multiple family members to Ubuntu with KDE and they don‘t have any complaints at all. Many people fail to realize how basic the computing needs for many people are, especially individual consumers
  - neepi 1y ago
    I don’t give a crap any more. What I have learned is that in the last 30 years of being told that I should switch to Linux on the desktop is that I should stop listening to these people’s ideological perspective and just get on with creating and doing shit. Because that’s far more important. I’ll take Excel and Adobe over any of the alternatives. I am not even sure I’m happy with it on the server these days. FreeBSD is far less nasty.
    - kgwxd 1y ago
      I'm kind of there too, but I haven't entirely given up. 5 years ago, I wouldn't have installed Windows on any of my personal machines, but Windows 10 is on my primary PC right now. I guess my point was that we're going to lose more potential users by over promising instead of just being honest. It's built on an ideology. It's pretty good but, when you struggle, we're here to help. Things will be different, sometimes in very stupid ways, but there are multiple choices, with tradeoffs, YOU get to decided on. The big corporations aren't really interested in you as a target demographic, but do you really want them to be? All that sounds way more inspiring than "It'S tHe SaME thING, bUTT FReEEEEEdOm" which gets proven factually incorrect within the first 5 minutes of attempted productive use.
  - pjerem 1y ago
    > running Linux is fucking hard Changing your habits is hard. But that's also true for Windows > Mac. Linux (Mint) in itself isn't hard. You need to understand what's different. If you have no hardware issue, the biggest different lies in "how do I install [software]" ? But now most distros (incl. Linux Mint) are hidding the package managers (including flatpack which provides a lot of software) behind nice "App Store" like GUIs. How do I know that ? After years on Linux & Mac, I had to work on Windows in my previous job. Guess what ? It was hard. Especially Windows 10 & 11. It's complex, it's a mess, nothing is coherent. I started my journey into computing with Windows 95. It used to be somehow simple, with coherent ergonomics. It's long gone. Any big Linx DE is more coherent than recent Windows nowadays.
    - HWR_14 1y ago
      The bigger issue is probably less "how do I install software" and more "how do I not install malware". I'm not saying that Linux is more prone to malware, but that the steps we teach people to avoid issues on Windows don't translate over.
      - account42 1y ago
        The situation is roughly similar though: only install software from trusted sources. The only real difference is that Linux distros come with a built in trusted source of programs that likely covers almost all of your needs.
    - kgwxd 1y ago
      I have decades of experience with both Windows and Linux (many machines, distros, package managers(or lack of), DEs, terminals), but only 2 years with Mac. Getting a hang of the Mac was hard, especially since I also had to still switch between all OSes regularly. New environments and habits are hard, yeah, but Linux is objectively much harsher than most, it's not because I'm used to some particular DE.
      - pjerem 1y ago
        Yup, macOS is still a mixed bag for me. Both really clever egonomics most of the time but also incredibly frustrating when you want to do something Apple didnt thought about. And it's not going in the right direction tbh. I think my personal macbook (Air M2) is my last. And it's a shame because hardware-wise it's just perfect. Relase after release of macOS, I don't feel like i'm their target anymore. Like Windows, I can't even remember when was the last time I was excited about a new macOS feature.
  - joseda-hg 1y ago
    Professionals already contact me on the regular to help them install and maintain their day to day OS/Programs/Apps I'd say in many cases, it's already too hard in windows and they don't care anyway, might as well swap, and stick to the lesser of evils
  - andrepd 1y ago
    > But running Linux is fucking hard, unless all you need is available in a browser, and even then... Has this actually been a valid complaint for the past 15 years? I'll concede that installing it (merely downloading, burning to a thumb drive, disabling secure boot, following the install wizard) already puts it beyond the scope of 99% of users, which will use the pre-installed OS no matter what. But using it? Linux Mint is orders of magnitude more user friendly than Windows. It's fast, clear, there's no ads and no mandatory logins. Things work out of the box with no need to manually install drivers. There's an easy to use "app store". Most Windows programs even run with Wine/Proton. We're not in the 90s slackware era anymore.
  - dismalaf 1y ago
    > But running Linux is fucking hard Running Linux is easy. Literally everything is easier from installation to installing drivers (they're all in the kernel except Nvidia, which you don't have to worry about if you're on Ubuntu as it installs it for you), installing software, updates, upgrades... The only difficult part is all the shit advice on the internet and the idea that you *need* certain software.
- qoez 1y ago
  This feels like a chatgpt summary which is against HN guidelines
- charlieyu1 1y ago
  I won’t use Windows if I had a choice.
  - account42 1y ago
    You always have a choice.
preisschild 1y ago
Not a fan of windows, but i hate this FUD against TPM&Secureboot
- dbetteridge 1y ago
  How is it FUD? If they offered to support higher security on win11 with a tpm chip that'd be one thing, but they're creating a situation where you either pay them for security updates on win10 forever or be forced to upgrade hardware that is otherwise perfectly functional. AFAICT the author isn't saying "TPM bad" but rather "wasteful disposal of millions of functional computers for no valid reason is bad"
- snickerdoodle12 1y ago
  Not not a fan of windows, but I hate this FUD that a computer has to be trashed because it doesn't support TPM/Secureboot.
- ToucanLoucan 1y ago
  It's not Fear, Uncertainty or Doubt. Nobody serious is saying that TPMs are a bad idea. They are saying they are not required and they are fucking correct to say it, and especially when folks are already suffering under a cost of living hike like few we've seen, plus Trump's stupid tariffs, it's horseshit to effectively hold people's security hostage to them buying an entire new fucking computer. You can disable the requirements for these features in Windows setup with Microsoft approved group policies. They are the definition of not required. My workbench PC is a shitty old XPS from 2014 and it runs 11 just fine. Like, would people be more secure with TPMs? Absolutely, but I've been using computers in my home since fucking 2004 that did not have these features. Surely we can let it go a little longer without throwing folks to the digital wolves for the crime of not having a few hundred around for another new goddamn gadget?
  - account42 1y ago
    > Nobody serious is saying that TPMs are a bad idea. I am. They by definition mean you no longer have full authority over your computer which is unacceptable. Even their name is orwellian - they are all about NOT trusting the user. > They are the definition of not required. They will be once support is widespread enough. And they will be used against your interests.
coreyh14444 1y ago
We can't have it both ways. Either Windows gets serious about security and enforces hardware encryption or forever the industry will say "oh, Windows isn't secure you can't trust it."
- anonymars 1y ago
  Windows has supported hardware encryption for a very long time. I support various machines owned by my family that are hardware encrypted spanning across the last 15 years. All work on Windows 10 and are encrypted with Bitlocker (or that invisible Home edition "device encryption" version). They don't support Windows 11.
  - velcrovan 1y ago
    … and all those things that Windows 10 “supports“ can be much more easily bypassed without TPM and secure boot. Lots of things not to like about Win11 but force-dragging their manufacturers and customers into 2010s era security is long overdue.
    - zb3 1y ago
      Would you pay for my security? If not then, well, "be quiet".
    - nottorp 1y ago
      > much more easily bypassed without TPM and secure boot How does secure boot help against a browser vulnerability exploitation? Especially on Windows? And if we're talking local attacks, there's always the $5 wrench to bypass the TPM. > force-dragging their manufacturers and customers into 2010s era security is long overdue. Spoken like someone who gets the newest tech toy without having to think if they can afford it. How much are your lattes?
      - account42 1y ago
        > How does secure boot help against a browser vulnerability exploitation? Especially on Windows? It will eventually do that by only allowing you to run microsoft-approved signed software. Of course no sane person should want that but it's what all this is building towards.
liotier 1y ago
Soon available: lots of nice used hardware to run Linux on cheaply.
- cedws 1y ago
  [flagged]
  - JohnFen 1y ago
    I don't know. It's been years since I had any sort of problem with drivers. But, as always, YMMV.
    - AlecSchueler 1y ago
      Yeah for years my experience is that Linux "just works" in the plug-and-play sense but on windows I'll have to download and install something from the web that could be on trustworthy looking site or not.
  - account42 1y ago
    What year did you get your snide remarks from? 1999?
    - bigyabai 1y ago
      Let's not jump to conclusions, maybe they bought an M3 Macbook.
    - cedws 1y ago
      No, about five years ago when I owned a “Linux laptop” XPS that gave me countless problems. Buggy touchpad, buggy video acceleration, buggy hibernate, buggy CPU driver causing constant throttling or burning hot temperatures.
- leereeves 1y ago
  I'm definitely considering switching to Linux. The only things holding me back are Office and some online games with anti-cheat.
nottorp 1y ago
How's Mint? I'm asking because I installed a fresh ubuntu desktop in a VM today and the spam I got on first run reminded me of ... Windows.
- christophilus 1y ago
  My 2cents: use Fedora. Or, if you're technically savvy, Arch. I slightly prefer Arch simply because: - Firefox is up to date (Fedora is often 2 weeks late on security patches) - No upgrade cycle. Just `pacman -Syu` on a regular cadence, or whatever you're comfy with. When you go with the vanilla install of a major distro, I find you simply run into fewer shenanigans.
  - rodrigodlu 1y ago
    +1, more 2 cents: I have Fedora on my main work computer (Dell XPS) And I just got a Thinkpad E14 for CachyOS (arch based). It auto configured btrfs with snapper. Everything just worked fine so far (fingerprints, cameras, sleep, secure boot, sound, mics, etc) Fedora is still the king as the main workhorse, no headaches, every 6 months there's a reasonable upgrade. But I can't help myself going back to arch, it just feels snappier. So if you have a boring hardware like this thinkpad I got, everything just works, go for Arch. The main reason I went with Fedora on the XPS was some issues with hardware/wifi/bluetooth from time to time, usually an hour before an important meeting that made me chill, ask for a few minutes to rollback a btrfs snapshot, etc.
  - account42 1y ago
    I strongly suggest considering a community-run distro instead of one mainly controlled by one corporation unless you desperately want to experience a Microsoft 2.0. IBM is not a charity, they will extract value from their investments.
    - christophilus 1y ago
      Yeah. This is another reason I like Arch. You do need to read the docs, though. Arch doesn't come with a firewall installed, etc out of the box. It really is a distro that is what you make of it.
ryao 1y ago
Every time this happens, I wonder why people do not just drop Windows entirely.
- tiahura 1y ago
  Because they run Word Excel and Outlook.
  - loloquwowndueo 1y ago
    Can’t you run that on a browser these days?
    - nottorp 1y ago
      Not the good ones everyone is used to :)
    - kayodelycaon 1y ago
      Have you tried to use office on the web? The answer is no, not unless an absolutely crippled version is sufficient for your needs.
      - loloquwowndueo 1y ago
        Of course not - luckily I haven’t used Microsoft office in decades. Which is why I was asking what the capabilities are “these days”.
  - tonyedgecombe 1y ago
    >Outlook Even more reason to switch.
    - anonymars 1y ago
      To?
    - tiahura 1y ago
marcusb 1y ago
> Microsoft has a long history of playing fast-and-loose with the truth. And that’s again the case with Windows 10 coming to its supposed “end of life” this fall. I can’t take an article seriously, whatever merits it might have, if this is the opening gambit. “End of life” is a fairly common term of art amongst software and hardware OEMs. Windows 10 is going to be end of life. No scare quotes needed.
- nathas 1y ago
  This probably refers to the fact that Windows XP still has support contracts. Microsoft commonly calls their software EOL and then supports it for 5+ years. I don't think that's a bad thing, but they tend to use it more as a marketing term than a true hard line where security fixes stop going out.
  - samuellavoie90 1y ago
    Also, If I remember correctly, the originally announced end of life for Windows XP was extended because too many people were still running it when the date came. (I think they even extended it more than once)
- add-sub-mul-div 1y ago
  The funniest thing about this is that any major security indicent with Windows 10 after EOL would obviously get fixed by Microsoft because it would be so existentially terrible for them to point to the fine print and ignore it. But you can't stop outrage journalism.
  - andrepd 1y ago
    So the piece is right: it's not actually end of life.
    - marcusb 1y ago
      No. If a vendor says “we aren’t going to support this product after X date - don’t call, don’t write”, that’s EoL. Doesn’t matter if they do one off fixes because they decide that’s the right thing to do - product is still EoL. You won’t get support if, say, Word crashes due to a core library bug. You can’t rely on them doing regular testing. EoL. Doesn’t matter if the DoD comes to some ridiculously expensive bespoke support arrangement - still EoL. You could probably offer them enough money to provide a support contract for MSDOS 1.0, but that’s still EoL for everyone else and in general.
rusk 1y ago
A yes I remember people complaining that Windows 95 needed 16Mb of RAM At least we’ve got smart paste
artgship 1y ago
Run ubuntu and setup a windows virtual machine with office etc on it. 8+ years running like this. Highly recommended.
marcodiego 1y ago
No. Actually, Microsoft is telling the truth. Your computer is not good enough for their software. Consider Linux instead.
bravesoul2 1y ago
Oh I thought that was microsoft telling me Linux is superior!
- incomingpain 1y ago
  You dont need microsoft to tell you that truth.
netbioserror 1y ago
Been on Linux for 13 years now, and recent Mint releases really are as close as we've gotten to a "set-and-forget" operating system that...just works. Switchable graphics, power profiles, night colors, a consistent and stable updater, sensible defaults and options... Microsoft really stumbled upon gold when they designed Windows 7, and fumbled it because investors always need novelty for growth. Mint just picked up the ball and kept running.
joshstrange 1y ago
> System resources ... the requirements are much higher than they need to be They don't mention the requirements directly because people would laugh them out of the room. For hardware (aside from the TPM): 1 gigahertz (GHz) or faster with 2 or more cores on a compatible 64-bit processor, 4 gigabytes (GB), 64 GB or larger storage device. That is "higher than they need to be"? I don't think so. That's the absolute _floor_ and I'm shocked it isn't higher. Windows raising requirements forces hardware vendors to ship something better and for many people who buy the entry-level computer that's a boon. > Is it finally the year of the Linux desktop? No, and I don't see that happening anytime soon. I can't take someone seriously if they legitimately think installing Linux Mint is a viable alternative for normal people. If you are reading this you are not normal and neither are any people for which you support a linux install (parents/friends).
- joseda-hg 1y ago
  At work we have some old computers which entire existence is running a legacy program from back when software didn't have gigs to spare Those computers efectively have fixed requirements measured in a few megabytes + Whatever Windows needs This eventually will mean that either those apps get rewriten for no good reason and moved to other platforms, or they get stuck on 'unsupported OS, AirGapped from as much as possible' limbo Effectively nothing about them changed, they didn't need anything new, the API's didn't change, Microsoft just decided to do the thing
  - joshstrange 1y ago
    Air-gap or firewall them then and move on. Nothing says you have to update Windows unless they are online. There are plenty of ancient computers running DOS or older still, nothing stops them from working if you don't need features of the newer OS.
- dismalaf 1y ago
  Linux Mint is a buggy POS, the fact it's ever recommended is a disservice to Linux.
j_seigh 1y ago
ChromeOS flex. It will run on hardware that even Linux complains about. I've even installed it on a Chromebook that stopped getting updates. Though, you have to replace the firmware, which entails some risk of bricking, so you can do a UEFI boot. Also you can upgrade windows 10 to windows 11 even on hardware that Microsoft says is unsupported. Google for the workarounds. You only need to download the win11 iso from Microsoft and make a bootable USB stick using Rufus. Don't download anything from anywhere else. I wouldn't trust it.
- account42 1y ago
  ChromeOS uses Linux so your claim makes no sense. And there are certainly many distributions with desktop environments much lighter than ChromeOS.
pathartl 1y ago
Let's be real for a second, we're in an era where people are less likely to buy a new computer. Part of it is due to the performance plateau of new hardware, part of it is people just don't use PCs as much. This is the same demographic of people that ran XP until they bought a new PC that just happened to run 7. Or 7 -> 10. I think about my mom. She's not tech literate, but needs a PC to do business. She cannot seem to remember Ctrl C, Ctrl V. She doesn't know what a file explorer is or how to pair a Bluetooth device. There is no way in hell she would know how to update to 11, nor would she even comprehend any of the differences between the two. She's the type of person that would buy a new computer if her charger stopped working. She represents millions of people that own a computer. We're going to see a lot of 10 stragglers not due to protest, but incompetence. For any of us that actually care about updating, it is incredibly simple to bypass any checks. For anyone that would attempt to run Linux, it would be easier to bypass the requirement checks. This whole thing is blown completely out of proportion because people are still trying to push the year of the Linux desktop. It might convert some people, but stop pushing (imo) misleading narratives like planned obsolescence when we're living in an era of a Windows that is more secure than ever, has the largest catalog of runnable software, and probably the largest step in the history of the platform.
osigurdson 1y ago
Only in software there seems to exist this idea that everything is free.
- anonymars 1y ago
  Only in software does otherwise perfectly functional hardware have to be thrown out
  - osigurdson 1y ago
    It doesn't have to be thrown out, just keep using Windows 10. Oh, but you still want security patches for your old hardware and insist that it must be free - got it. I suspect if you were willing to cough up a few $B you could get companies to support any old hardware that you want, indefinitely.
    - anonymars 1y ago
      Is Microsoft advertising their paid extended support as an option, or are they saying "buy a new machine"?
      - osigurdson 1y ago
        They likely ran the numbers and decide that it would be sub economic due to the small number of takers. Offering support for a very high that actually covers the costs + ROI would be laughable and just create negative PR.
        anonymars 1y ago
        You seem to misunderstand. I'm not asking "does this program exist". The program does exist. But it is de-emphasized in favor of "lolz just buy a new computer".
- account42 1y ago
  Not true but you're right that many other areas still need to catch up on open culture.
jasonthorsness 1y ago
I don’t understand why Microsoft is planning to die on the TPM 2.0 hill. If they actually go through with trying to charge customers $30 for extended support it will be a PR blunder and many won’t pay leaving systems vulnerable anyway. It’s not like they need more revenue.
- account42 1y ago
  > It’s not like they need more revenue. You do understand how publicly traded companies work, right? The numbers must go up at all cost. As for what their end game with TPM is we can only speculate - but they have been trying to push "trusted" computing for a long time now, with themselves in control of the master keys of course.
  - renegat0x0 1y ago
    I think the end goal is to close everything like it is with android. To introduce WEI, to remove possibility of running Linux, or open os. Everything needs to be signed so you could easily be controlled and tracked.
southernplaces7 1y ago
Windows 10 or 11 (as you please) LTSC, ad several problems solved if you insist on sticking with Windows in the first place.
1vuio0pswjnm7 1y ago
"Much of this sluggishness, or "lag," comes from Microsoft adding ever-more advertising and tracking." Those replying may or may not find objectionable (a) "sluggishness", (b) "ever-more advertising and tracking" or (c) both (a) and (b) Even if a default Windows install was fast, some people might still object to (b)
- stby 1y ago
  Is this even true? I am strongly opposed to ads and tracking in my OS for other reasons, but surely the performance impact is barely measurable.
28304283409234 1y ago
Why single out microsoft? Apple has been doing this for decades. My macbook airs 2013 run Linux just fine.

67 points by FlipperPA 1y ago

Microsoft's latest lie is primed to created the largest single E-waste event in human history, argues Timothy Allen, Principal Engineer at the Wharton School, in an article for Technical.ly. The article gives practical suggestions, and argues the migration from Windows 10 to Linux Mint is easier than Windows 10 to Windows 11.

kgwxd 1y ago
> and argues the migration from Windows 10 to Linux Mint is easier than Windows 10 to Windows 11. This message needs to stop. I use both heavily, because 1. I need to work and 2. I believe it's my duty to attempt to escape the prison MS/Apple/et al have built around us. But running Linux is fucking hard, unless all you need is available in a browser, and even then... If someone is going in expecting an easy replacement, they're going to leave the second it's not. If they go in believing it's a fight for our collective souls, they might be willing to join the rebellion.
- fainpul 1y ago
  People are also struggling with Windows (any version). Especially installing programs (clicking through wizards, answering lots of questions they don't understand) and installing device drivers (how to even know what to do, to the get a device working? where to find drivers?) are often too much for non-technical users on Windows. Both of these are much easier (or unnecessary) on most Linux distros. No matter which OS they use, they will sometimes have to ask someone more knowledgable to solve some problems.
  - baal80spam 1y ago
    > installing device drivers This is not an issue for many, many years now. > Both of these are much easier (or unnecessary) on most Linux distros. Oh, now I know you are joking.
    - kgwxd 1y ago
      The situation is very hit or miss, I assume the downvoters don't have many problems because they're probably smart about the machines they try to put linux on. Just this month, I put Linux Mint on an old dell laptop, and a custom built PC with a 1080 ti in it. The laptop worked perfect, wifi worked out of the box, and it ran much smoother than it did with Windows 10. The desktop was a pain because none of the 3 usb wifi devices I already had, worked out of the box. I started down the path of following some guides that got 2 of them "working" with the same steps, but they both behaved horribly. I gave up and ordered a device known to work with Linux for $50 because it just wasn't worth my time. It's connection speed is even faster than it runs on my windows machine, but there are frequent "blips" in the connection. Gah! Nothing is more demotivating than having trouble loading the web page trying to show you how to fix your networking issues. The video card seems to work fine but none of the games I want to play via steam work nearly as smooth as I hoped, and they're old games, the newest one just turned 10 yo. I love what Steam is doing, and I'm sure I could get a lot of the games working pretty good with some more effort, but it's not the cakewalk it's often hyped up to be. I decided to just use it for old emulators, and stick to my Windows machine for other games. On top of all that, it feels just about as "slow" as it did with Windows for basic operations. Again, I'm sure I could do some optimizing and get it blazing fast, but I don't have the time for that when I've already got things generally working fine on other machines.
- moooo99 1y ago
  > But running Linux is fucking hard, unless all you need is available in a browser, and even then... For some it is, for others it isn‘t. It really heavily depends on what you want to do with it. I have migrated multiple family members to Ubuntu with KDE and they don‘t have any complaints at all. Many people fail to realize how basic the computing needs for many people are, especially individual consumers
- neepi 1y ago
  I don’t give a crap any more. What I have learned is that in the last 30 years of being told that I should switch to Linux on the desktop is that I should stop listening to these people’s ideological perspective and just get on with creating and doing shit. Because that’s far more important. I’ll take Excel and Adobe over any of the alternatives. I am not even sure I’m happy with it on the server these days. FreeBSD is far less nasty.
  - kgwxd 1y ago
    I'm kind of there too, but I haven't entirely given up. 5 years ago, I wouldn't have installed Windows on any of my personal machines, but Windows 10 is on my primary PC right now. I guess my point was that we're going to lose more potential users by over promising instead of just being honest. It's built on an ideology. It's pretty good but, when you struggle, we're here to help. Things will be different, sometimes in very stupid ways, but there are multiple choices, with tradeoffs, YOU get to decided on. The big corporations aren't really interested in you as a target demographic, but do you really want them to be? All that sounds way more inspiring than "It'S tHe SaME thING, bUTT FReEEEEEdOm" which gets proven factually incorrect within the first 5 minutes of attempted productive use.
- pjerem 1y ago
  > running Linux is fucking hard Changing your habits is hard. But that's also true for Windows > Mac. Linux (Mint) in itself isn't hard. You need to understand what's different. If you have no hardware issue, the biggest different lies in "how do I install [software]" ? But now most distros (incl. Linux Mint) are hidding the package managers (including flatpack which provides a lot of software) behind nice "App Store" like GUIs. How do I know that ? After years on Linux & Mac, I had to work on Windows in my previous job. Guess what ? It was hard. Especially Windows 10 & 11. It's complex, it's a mess, nothing is coherent. I started my journey into computing with Windows 95. It used to be somehow simple, with coherent ergonomics. It's long gone. Any big Linx DE is more coherent than recent Windows nowadays.
  - HWR_14 1y ago
    The bigger issue is probably less "how do I install software" and more "how do I not install malware". I'm not saying that Linux is more prone to malware, but that the steps we teach people to avoid issues on Windows don't translate over.
    - account42 1y ago
      The situation is roughly similar though: only install software from trusted sources. The only real difference is that Linux distros come with a built in trusted source of programs that likely covers almost all of your needs.
  - kgwxd 1y ago
    I have decades of experience with both Windows and Linux (many machines, distros, package managers(or lack of), DEs, terminals), but only 2 years with Mac. Getting a hang of the Mac was hard, especially since I also had to still switch between all OSes regularly. New environments and habits are hard, yeah, but Linux is objectively much harsher than most, it's not because I'm used to some particular DE.
    - pjerem 1y ago
      Yup, macOS is still a mixed bag for me. Both really clever egonomics most of the time but also incredibly frustrating when you want to do something Apple didnt thought about. And it's not going in the right direction tbh. I think my personal macbook (Air M2) is my last. And it's a shame because hardware-wise it's just perfect. Relase after release of macOS, I don't feel like i'm their target anymore. Like Windows, I can't even remember when was the last time I was excited about a new macOS feature.
- joseda-hg 1y ago
  Professionals already contact me on the regular to help them install and maintain their day to day OS/Programs/Apps I'd say in many cases, it's already too hard in windows and they don't care anyway, might as well swap, and stick to the lesser of evils
- andrepd 1y ago
  > But running Linux is fucking hard, unless all you need is available in a browser, and even then... Has this actually been a valid complaint for the past 15 years? I'll concede that installing it (merely downloading, burning to a thumb drive, disabling secure boot, following the install wizard) already puts it beyond the scope of 99% of users, which will use the pre-installed OS no matter what. But using it? Linux Mint is orders of magnitude more user friendly than Windows. It's fast, clear, there's no ads and no mandatory logins. Things work out of the box with no need to manually install drivers. There's an easy to use "app store". Most Windows programs even run with Wine/Proton. We're not in the 90s slackware era anymore.
- dismalaf 1y ago
  > But running Linux is fucking hard Running Linux is easy. Literally everything is easier from installation to installing drivers (they're all in the kernel except Nvidia, which you don't have to worry about if you're on Ubuntu as it installs it for you), installing software, updates, upgrades... The only difficult part is all the shit advice on the internet and the idea that you *need* certain software.
qoez 1y ago
This feels like a chatgpt summary which is against HN guidelines
charlieyu1 1y ago
I won’t use Windows if I had a choice.
- account42 1y ago
  You always have a choice.

preisschild 1y ago

Not a fan of windows, but i hate this FUD against TPM&Secureboot

dbetteridge 1y ago
How is it FUD? If they offered to support higher security on win11 with a tpm chip that'd be one thing, but they're creating a situation where you either pay them for security updates on win10 forever or be forced to upgrade hardware that is otherwise perfectly functional. AFAICT the author isn't saying "TPM bad" but rather "wasteful disposal of millions of functional computers for no valid reason is bad"
snickerdoodle12 1y ago
Not not a fan of windows, but I hate this FUD that a computer has to be trashed because it doesn't support TPM/Secureboot.
ToucanLoucan 1y ago
It's not Fear, Uncertainty or Doubt. Nobody serious is saying that TPMs are a bad idea. They are saying they are not required and they are fucking correct to say it, and especially when folks are already suffering under a cost of living hike like few we've seen, plus Trump's stupid tariffs, it's horseshit to effectively hold people's security hostage to them buying an entire new fucking computer. You can disable the requirements for these features in Windows setup with Microsoft approved group policies. They are the definition of not required. My workbench PC is a shitty old XPS from 2014 and it runs 11 just fine. Like, would people be more secure with TPMs? Absolutely, but I've been using computers in my home since fucking 2004 that did not have these features. Surely we can let it go a little longer without throwing folks to the digital wolves for the crime of not having a few hundred around for another new goddamn gadget?
- account42 1y ago
  > Nobody serious is saying that TPMs are a bad idea. I am. They by definition mean you no longer have full authority over your computer which is unacceptable. Even their name is orwellian - they are all about NOT trusting the user. > They are the definition of not required. They will be once support is widespread enough. And they will be used against your interests.

coreyh14444 1y ago

We can't have it both ways. Either Windows gets serious about security and enforces hardware encryption or forever the industry will say "oh, Windows isn't secure you can't trust it."

anonymars 1y ago
Windows has supported hardware encryption for a very long time. I support various machines owned by my family that are hardware encrypted spanning across the last 15 years. All work on Windows 10 and are encrypted with Bitlocker (or that invisible Home edition "device encryption" version). They don't support Windows 11.
- velcrovan 1y ago
  … and all those things that Windows 10 “supports“ can be much more easily bypassed without TPM and secure boot. Lots of things not to like about Win11 but force-dragging their manufacturers and customers into 2010s era security is long overdue.
  - zb3 1y ago
    Would you pay for my security? If not then, well, "be quiet".
  - nottorp 1y ago
    > much more easily bypassed without TPM and secure boot How does secure boot help against a browser vulnerability exploitation? Especially on Windows? And if we're talking local attacks, there's always the $5 wrench to bypass the TPM. > force-dragging their manufacturers and customers into 2010s era security is long overdue. Spoken like someone who gets the newest tech toy without having to think if they can afford it. How much are your lattes?
    - account42 1y ago
      > How does secure boot help against a browser vulnerability exploitation? Especially on Windows? It will eventually do that by only allowing you to run microsoft-approved signed software. Of course no sane person should want that but it's what all this is building towards.

liotier 1y ago

Soon available: lots of nice used hardware to run Linux on cheaply.

cedws 1y ago
[flagged]
- JohnFen 1y ago
  I don't know. It's been years since I had any sort of problem with drivers. But, as always, YMMV.
  - AlecSchueler 1y ago
    Yeah for years my experience is that Linux "just works" in the plug-and-play sense but on windows I'll have to download and install something from the web that could be on trustworthy looking site or not.
- account42 1y ago
  What year did you get your snide remarks from? 1999?
  - bigyabai 1y ago
    Let's not jump to conclusions, maybe they bought an M3 Macbook.
  - cedws 1y ago
    No, about five years ago when I owned a “Linux laptop” XPS that gave me countless problems. Buggy touchpad, buggy video acceleration, buggy hibernate, buggy CPU driver causing constant throttling or burning hot temperatures.
leereeves 1y ago
I'm definitely considering switching to Linux. The only things holding me back are Office and some online games with anti-cheat.

nottorp 1y ago

How's Mint? I'm asking because I installed a fresh ubuntu desktop in a VM today and the spam I got on first run reminded me of ... Windows.

christophilus 1y ago
My 2cents: use Fedora. Or, if you're technically savvy, Arch. I slightly prefer Arch simply because: - Firefox is up to date (Fedora is often 2 weeks late on security patches) - No upgrade cycle. Just `pacman -Syu` on a regular cadence, or whatever you're comfy with. When you go with the vanilla install of a major distro, I find you simply run into fewer shenanigans.
- rodrigodlu 1y ago
  +1, more 2 cents: I have Fedora on my main work computer (Dell XPS) And I just got a Thinkpad E14 for CachyOS (arch based). It auto configured btrfs with snapper. Everything just worked fine so far (fingerprints, cameras, sleep, secure boot, sound, mics, etc) Fedora is still the king as the main workhorse, no headaches, every 6 months there's a reasonable upgrade. But I can't help myself going back to arch, it just feels snappier. So if you have a boring hardware like this thinkpad I got, everything just works, go for Arch. The main reason I went with Fedora on the XPS was some issues with hardware/wifi/bluetooth from time to time, usually an hour before an important meeting that made me chill, ask for a few minutes to rollback a btrfs snapshot, etc.
- account42 1y ago
  I strongly suggest considering a community-run distro instead of one mainly controlled by one corporation unless you desperately want to experience a Microsoft 2.0. IBM is not a charity, they will extract value from their investments.
  - christophilus 1y ago
    Yeah. This is another reason I like Arch. You do need to read the docs, though. Arch doesn't come with a firewall installed, etc out of the box. It really is a distro that is what you make of it.

ryao 1y ago

Every time this happens, I wonder why people do not just drop Windows entirely.

tiahura 1y ago
Because they run Word Excel and Outlook.
- loloquwowndueo 1y ago
  Can’t you run that on a browser these days?
  - nottorp 1y ago
    Not the good ones everyone is used to :)
  - kayodelycaon 1y ago
    Have you tried to use office on the web? The answer is no, not unless an absolutely crippled version is sufficient for your needs.
    - loloquwowndueo 1y ago
      Of course not - luckily I haven’t used Microsoft office in decades. Which is why I was asking what the capabilities are “these days”.
- tonyedgecombe 1y ago
  >Outlook Even more reason to switch.
  - anonymars 1y ago
    To?
  - tiahura 1y ago

marcusb 1y ago

> Microsoft has a long history of playing fast-and-loose with the truth. And that’s again the case with Windows 10 coming to its supposed “end of life” this fall. I can’t take an article seriously, whatever merits it might have, if this is the opening gambit. “End of life” is a fairly common term of art amongst software and hardware OEMs. Windows 10 is going to be end of life. No scare quotes needed.

nathas 1y ago
This probably refers to the fact that Windows XP still has support contracts. Microsoft commonly calls their software EOL and then supports it for 5+ years. I don't think that's a bad thing, but they tend to use it more as a marketing term than a true hard line where security fixes stop going out.
- samuellavoie90 1y ago
  Also, If I remember correctly, the originally announced end of life for Windows XP was extended because too many people were still running it when the date came. (I think they even extended it more than once)
add-sub-mul-div 1y ago
The funniest thing about this is that any major security indicent with Windows 10 after EOL would obviously get fixed by Microsoft because it would be so existentially terrible for them to point to the fine print and ignore it. But you can't stop outrage journalism.
- andrepd 1y ago
  So the piece is right: it's not actually end of life.
  - marcusb 1y ago
    No. If a vendor says “we aren’t going to support this product after X date - don’t call, don’t write”, that’s EoL. Doesn’t matter if they do one off fixes because they decide that’s the right thing to do - product is still EoL. You won’t get support if, say, Word crashes due to a core library bug. You can’t rely on them doing regular testing. EoL. Doesn’t matter if the DoD comes to some ridiculously expensive bespoke support arrangement - still EoL. You could probably offer them enough money to provide a support contract for MSDOS 1.0, but that’s still EoL for everyone else and in general.

rusk 1y ago

A yes I remember people complaining that Windows 95 needed 16Mb of RAM At least we’ve got smart paste

artgship 1y ago

Run ubuntu and setup a windows virtual machine with office etc on it. 8+ years running like this. Highly recommended.

marcodiego 1y ago

No. Actually, Microsoft is telling the truth. Your computer is not good enough for their software. Consider Linux instead.

bravesoul2 1y ago

Oh I thought that was microsoft telling me Linux is superior!

incomingpain 1y ago
You dont need microsoft to tell you that truth.

netbioserror 1y ago

Been on Linux for 13 years now, and recent Mint releases really are as close as we've gotten to a "set-and-forget" operating system that...just works. Switchable graphics, power profiles, night colors, a consistent and stable updater, sensible defaults and options... Microsoft really stumbled upon gold when they designed Windows 7, and fumbled it because investors always need novelty for growth. Mint just picked up the ball and kept running.

joshstrange 1y ago

> System resources ... the requirements are much higher than they need to be They don't mention the requirements directly because people would laugh them out of the room. For hardware (aside from the TPM): 1 gigahertz (GHz) or faster with 2 or more cores on a compatible 64-bit processor, 4 gigabytes (GB), 64 GB or larger storage device. That is "higher than they need to be"? I don't think so. That's the absolute _floor_ and I'm shocked it isn't higher. Windows raising requirements forces hardware vendors to ship something better and for many people who buy the entry-level computer that's a boon. > Is it finally the year of the Linux desktop? No, and I don't see that happening anytime soon. I can't take someone seriously if they legitimately think installing Linux Mint is a viable alternative for normal people. If you are reading this you are not normal and neither are any people for which you support a linux install (parents/friends).

joseda-hg 1y ago
At work we have some old computers which entire existence is running a legacy program from back when software didn't have gigs to spare Those computers efectively have fixed requirements measured in a few megabytes + Whatever Windows needs This eventually will mean that either those apps get rewriten for no good reason and moved to other platforms, or they get stuck on 'unsupported OS, AirGapped from as much as possible' limbo Effectively nothing about them changed, they didn't need anything new, the API's didn't change, Microsoft just decided to do the thing
- joshstrange 1y ago
  Air-gap or firewall them then and move on. Nothing says you have to update Windows unless they are online. There are plenty of ancient computers running DOS or older still, nothing stops them from working if you don't need features of the newer OS.
dismalaf 1y ago
Linux Mint is a buggy POS, the fact it's ever recommended is a disservice to Linux.

j_seigh 1y ago

ChromeOS flex. It will run on hardware that even Linux complains about. I've even installed it on a Chromebook that stopped getting updates. Though, you have to replace the firmware, which entails some risk of bricking, so you can do a UEFI boot. Also you can upgrade windows 10 to windows 11 even on hardware that Microsoft says is unsupported. Google for the workarounds. You only need to download the win11 iso from Microsoft and make a bootable USB stick using Rufus. Don't download anything from anywhere else. I wouldn't trust it.

account42 1y ago
ChromeOS uses Linux so your claim makes no sense. And there are certainly many distributions with desktop environments much lighter than ChromeOS.

pathartl 1y ago

Let's be real for a second, we're in an era where people are less likely to buy a new computer. Part of it is due to the performance plateau of new hardware, part of it is people just don't use PCs as much. This is the same demographic of people that ran XP until they bought a new PC that just happened to run 7. Or 7 -> 10. I think about my mom. She's not tech literate, but needs a PC to do business. She cannot seem to remember Ctrl C, Ctrl V. She doesn't know what a file explorer is or how to pair a Bluetooth device. There is no way in hell she would know how to update to 11, nor would she even comprehend any of the differences between the two. She's the type of person that would buy a new computer if her charger stopped working. She represents millions of people that own a computer. We're going to see a lot of 10 stragglers not due to protest, but incompetence. For any of us that actually care about updating, it is incredibly simple to bypass any checks. For anyone that would attempt to run Linux, it would be easier to bypass the requirement checks. This whole thing is blown completely out of proportion because people are still trying to push the year of the Linux desktop. It might convert some people, but stop pushing (imo) misleading narratives like planned obsolescence when we're living in an era of a Windows that is more secure than ever, has the largest catalog of runnable software, and probably the largest step in the history of the platform.

osigurdson 1y ago

Only in software there seems to exist this idea that everything is free.

anonymars 1y ago
Only in software does otherwise perfectly functional hardware have to be thrown out
- osigurdson 1y ago
  It doesn't have to be thrown out, just keep using Windows 10. Oh, but you still want security patches for your old hardware and insist that it must be free - got it. I suspect if you were willing to cough up a few $B you could get companies to support any old hardware that you want, indefinitely.
  - anonymars 1y ago
    Is Microsoft advertising their paid extended support as an option, or are they saying "buy a new machine"?
    - osigurdson 1y ago
      They likely ran the numbers and decide that it would be sub economic due to the small number of takers. Offering support for a very high that actually covers the costs + ROI would be laughable and just create negative PR.
      - anonymars 1y ago
        You seem to misunderstand. I'm not asking "does this program exist". The program does exist. But it is de-emphasized in favor of "lolz just buy a new computer".
account42 1y ago
Not true but you're right that many other areas still need to catch up on open culture.

jasonthorsness 1y ago

I don’t understand why Microsoft is planning to die on the TPM 2.0 hill. If they actually go through with trying to charge customers $30 for extended support it will be a PR blunder and many won’t pay leaving systems vulnerable anyway. It’s not like they need more revenue.

account42 1y ago
> It’s not like they need more revenue. You do understand how publicly traded companies work, right? The numbers must go up at all cost. As for what their end game with TPM is we can only speculate - but they have been trying to push "trusted" computing for a long time now, with themselves in control of the master keys of course.
- renegat0x0 1y ago
  I think the end goal is to close everything like it is with android. To introduce WEI, to remove possibility of running Linux, or open os. Everything needs to be signed so you could easily be controlled and tracked.

southernplaces7 1y ago

Windows 10 or 11 (as you please) LTSC, ad several problems solved if you insist on sticking with Windows in the first place.

1vuio0pswjnm7 1y ago

"Much of this sluggishness, or "lag," comes from Microsoft adding ever-more advertising and tracking." Those replying may or may not find objectionable (a) "sluggishness", (b) "ever-more advertising and tracking" or (c) both (a) and (b) Even if a default Windows install was fast, some people might still object to (b)

stby 1y ago
Is this even true? I am strongly opposed to ads and tracking in my OS for other reasons, but surely the performance impact is barely measurable.

28304283409234 1y ago

Why single out microsoft? Apple has been doing this for decades. My macbook airs 2013 run Linux just fine.