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I go to raves, I take very modest amounts of LSD (100 maybe 150 micrograms), and the whole experience turns into very spiritual session where I dance with my en

I go to raves, I take very modest amounts of LSD (100 maybe 150 micrograms), and the whole experience turns into very spiritual session where I dance with my entire being and let myself disolve into the Great Void. It has lasting effects that go way beyond the effects of the drug. However I think it's complicated to derive generalisms like saying it's a drug for everyone and everybody should take it. It's definitely not for everybody. I'm also not going to be a hypocrite and say that you shouldn't do it. What I'll go and say is that it's your journey to figure out what you are going to invite into your life. In any case, depending on what you believe, you aren't actually here to figure things out. You already did. You are here to remember. In more secular terms, you are here to do the required work to understand yourself, your circumstances, stand on the shoulder of giants and study the great minds that came before you. That will give you the necessary foundational philosophy to withstand and understand these experiences, should you choose to go through them. This is the only way to acquire a foundational respect for these substances and these experiences. Have I done this work? Have I achieved the required level of understanding to make heads and tails of these experiences? Not for a while at least. It was rough the first couple of times. Very violent and crude, like rushing naked through a sea of people while being completely sure that that night is the last night of your life (I wasn't actually naked, it just felt like that and that everyone was eventually going to merge with me and that I should feel ashamed of it). But with time and with the necessary exposure to understand the basics of existencialism I think I managed to pin down a more gentle form of this experience that can help me remember how to lay myself bare to the goddess and just be there when I dance. So I think I can extend this invitation to anyone that feels brave enough to lift the reins of existence and reality and expose yourself to the truth. That everything is a story about the end of the world. About the beginning. And about everything at once. It's scary, it's blissful and it's totally worth it.

thinkingtoilet 1y ago
I would go as far as to say most people should have a psychedelic experience at least once in their life. There's nothing like it. It's one of the great pleasures of being alive.
- gchamonlive 1y ago
  Totally. It's just that that realisation must come from within, because the experience changes the very perception of reality and the relationship between yourself and everything else. With the wrong circumstances what would otherwise be a blissful experience can turn into a nightmare and this gate is likely forever closed for this person. I'd never forgive myself if I had this happen to someone else because of ill advice given by me.
- reactordev 1y ago
  And if that’s the case, do it in your early 20s in college or shortly after. Don’t do it in your 70s.
  - gchamonlive 1y ago
    That is assuming everyone is ready to do it at the age of 20. If you are only ready to take them at 70s, why not do it? At that age you have other things to worry about anyway.
    - reactordev 1y ago
      Which is why you’ll be less likely to do it because you’ll be on a bunch of other drugs.
  - BLKNSLVR 1y ago
    Why not in your 70s? Purely due to being more physically fragile, or more spiritually "settled"? Would it make a difference if it was a 70 year old who is still open minded and curious about life, the universe, and everything? (given that I'd guess that any 70+ year old willing to do LSD is likely to be as per this description). Legitimately interested in your answer / reasoning (mainly because my plan was to experience a number of different drugs once the rest of my life, that could have been put at risk by drugs, is kinda setup and done well enough).
    - reactordev 1y ago
brcmthrowaway 1y ago
[flagged]
- 010101010101 1y ago
  Why?
  - gchamonlive 1y ago
    For some people there is only the serious life for the serious man. Everyone else are just manchildren. And they are right. Give these drugs to these people, they will turn into manchildren because it's their reality, and it's true for them.
SlowTao 1y ago
Some of the best writing on the uses of LSD come from Alan watts. In his early life he said "it was impossible to bottle mysticism" and yet on dropping acid the first time felt like "they have completely bottled mysticism!". But then he noticed that the results really depend on who is taking it and what their world view is. If you do not have any inclination towards that mystic space, you will not get the ego death. It is as Eckhart Tolle said "just your senses turned up to 11", that is if there is nothing else you can get out of it. As Douglas Rushkoff said "If you give tech bros a hit of psychedelics, all you get is tech bros on psychedelics." There is no higher sense achieved.
- gchamonlive 1y ago
  It's because meaning isn't essential to the universe, but derived from human experience. The universe needs us just as much as we need the universe. Actually this separation is an artifact of reductionism we have to let go. In any case, this is why I think philosophy is the required work to be done so that we can invite spiritualism and mysticism into our lives and potentially experience them with these reality altering drugs.
  - throwaway7783 1y ago
    Nothing is essential to the universe, the universe does not need us. We need it exactly as it is today, and that is it. Everything else is stuff we made up to understand the universe weakly, or to cope with life. This is not nihilism, but meaning to life is meaningful only in the context of humans and has nothing to do with universe needing us.
    - josephg 1y ago
      If we’re gonna talk trip philosophy, then: This is only true at the physical level. At another level, the only thing that “exists” is a mind. If all you have is a bunch of rocks floating through space with nothing to perceive it, the universe is indistinguishable from emptiness. Experience lives at the intersection of instantiated reality and thought / perception. You need both. You can also imagine travelling along the axis of an idea or an archetype through time and space. For example, the idea of lovers or warriors or something. Each instantiation of that idea in someone exists along that axis. The idea can only come into being inside a physical reality or simulation. But the idea itself is eternal. The idea of the number 1 doesn’t “need” the universe. Ideas aren’t made out of atoms.
o1bf2k25n8g5 1y ago
> ...you are here to do the required work to understand yourself, your circumstances, stand on the shoulder of giants and study the great minds that came before you. Just to offer a counterpoint: “I tell you, we are here on Earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you different.” ― Kurt Vonnegut The more I experience, the more I think maybe that's a pretty good point, too.
- gchamonlive 1y ago
  It's like the nihilist denying any meaning to the world. It's because they choose to see it that way even if they aren't aware of it. If you choose to fart around, whatever that means, don't let anyone tell you otherwise. Since there's no salvation, farts are also meaningless, and at the same time totally meaningful given the circumstances.
  - rags2riches 1y ago
    > Since there's no salvation, farts are also meaningless That's begging the question. I'd argue that all meaning is in how we fart around.
  - ramblerman 1y ago
    Vonnegut sounds closer to an epicurist. A nihilist would say fart or don't fart it's all pointless.
  - baq 1y ago
    Meaning is what you want it to be. If you don’t know what it is and don’t know what you want, you either fart around or resign.
  - jona-f 1y ago
    As a nihilist my sense of meaning seams to be compatible to yours. I don't deny that we can come up with all sorts of meanings but the point is that there is no intrinsically higher meaning to everything, it's all made up. In fact, the awareness of this is the basis of my nihilism. That doesn't mean, that I don't like some meanings more than others, otherwise I had no reason to act whatsoever.
bongodongobob 1y ago
Nah, if you think you want to do it, do it, and I think a lot of people would benefit from a little peer pressure of having a half dose. It's all social stigma, all of the fear is from bullshit stories of turning into a glass of orange juice: that shit doesn't happen. Take a half hit of acid and you'll wish you took more. Every person I've I introduced it to has agreed. It's not that big of a deal. You aren't going to wreck your brain. It's not something that will ALTER YOUR LIFE PERMANENTLY!!! It's a drug and you'll be fuckin fine. It very much IS set and setting and the powers that be really want to fuck up the set. Try it. You won't regret it.
- gchamonlive 1y ago
  My point is, even though there is no unsafe dose of LSD, bad trips are real and can totally lock yourself out of it psychologically. My advice has to be very careful in order not to incentivise unprepared people who would otherwise have a great trip. We have to be responsible, even if it'll only gonna negatively affect a very small percentage of them. Applied philosophy of care 100% Other than that, I totally agree.
  - bongodongobob 1y ago
    I think the bad trips are good though, it's almost the point. Why are you feeling bad? It's usually because you're in a physical or mental place you don't want to be, yet, when sober, you think it is where you should be. The incongruity of the situation is the lesson and the point. When I was in college, I tracked down some mushrooms, bought em, and ran away on my own to trip out. I found myself on a bench, next to a river surrounded by trash in a mixed industrial area. I saw cig butts and empty beer cans on the ground. Looked at my ripped jeans and thought "Am I trash? Why am I here?" It was a shitty feeling and I got really down. I realized that getting fucked up for its own sake was stupid, and it's about sharing time with others that's actually important, no matter what drug you're on. I started crying and felt horrible, but the next day, I had a new sense of worth and a new frame of reference for the world that has persisted for 20+ years. I'll always remember that shitty trip on that shitty bench.
bowsamic 1y ago
The truth is fully accessible through reason, you don’t need to take drugs to know things
- LoganDark 1y ago
  No, but LSD helped me see things that couldn't be learned from outside. For some reason, it helps me recall childhood memories better. Sure maybe there's some guided therapy session that could have done that, but LSD gives it to me for free, along with a whole lot of other stuff.
  - bowsamic 1y ago
    All knowledge that can be gained through LSD is contingent and experiential, not universal and certain I’m well aware through my own testing EDIT: I’m not saying it is useless information for your life but it is particular to your life, not truths of the universe like the person I replied to claimed
    - LoganDark 1y ago
      Oh, of course, nothing about LSD can give me access to things that my brain just doesn't have access to. It can help with the things that already are in my brain though.
      - bowsamic 1y ago
        Your brain does have access to all rational truth
        LoganDark 1y ago
        My brain has the ability to claim anything it wants as truth. I prefer for my truth to either be consistent with an objective or empirical truth, or be measurably opposed to truths I disagree with (and to a known degree). I don't always achieve this and I'm not always the best at being open-minded but it is the goal, I would think.
illiac786 1y ago
Would you say the following are (individually taken) red flags for trying it: * being terrified of letting loose (even with something common in the local culture, for example alcohol) * having zero belief in the mysticism
- AgentMatt 1y ago
  > being terrified of letting loose (even with something common in the local culture, for example alcohol) In that case, I would suggest working a bit on that first. Meditation can help, but "terrified" sounds strong enough that trying out therapy if available may be worthwhile. Regarding substances, I found mushrooms to be easier than LSD, with a kind of warmth that softens the psychedelic experience (without taking anything away from it). The effects also don't last as long. A non-psychedelic which can allow one to face difficult emotions is MDMA. In some countries you can find MDMA based therapy. This could prepare someone to become more open to what psychedelics have to offer. (Edit: Also, all of these substances have effects that are not comparable to alcohol at all. Trying to understand the effects of psychedelics/empathogens based on experiences with alcohol is a category error.) Based on my limited experience, I would roughly categorize the relation of these substances to the idea of control like this: LSD: you might feel like there's some control, but you're actually the playball of the substance Mushrooms: the substance draws you in some direction, and it's best to just lean into it, but it'll support you in doing so MDMA: there's no need for control, things are okay the way they are > having zero belief in the mysticism That depends on what exactly this means. Have some knowledge of "mysticism" or some eastern worldviews / philosophy, without taking it too seriously, would be a good basis IMO. Actively rejecting any ideas related to mysticism while clinging tightly to a specific world view / metaphysics (and related beliefs like "I can only allow something if I understand / can explain it") may lead someone to have a really bad time on psychedelics. --- Note that this isn't advice about whether to consume anything or what to consume, and experiences can vary widely between individuals, settings, dosages etc. (For both assumptions above, is possible to construct higly positive outcomes, where the substance helped overcome problems, opens one up, etc. and negative ones, horror trip, lasting trauma from the trip, ...) Having someone experienced present when doing something like this for the first time is highly recommended.
- 1y ago
Nursie 1y ago
I think this notion that one must engage in philosophical study or appreciate "the goddess" to survive, enjoy and appreciate psychedelics is ridiculous. There is no special 'truth' in LSD, certainly no truths outside the self - while you can learn some things about your internal experience from it, it also repeatedly provokes in its users a false sense of the profound. People experience 'realisations' which are pure nonsense when recalled or examined later. It makes your brain go haywire in all sorts of fun and interesting ways. But if you're looking for the meaning of life in there you're doing it wrong, and I dread to think what you might find.
- lynx97 1y ago
  Joscha Bach summed this up in a very succint way in an interview once. Paraphrasing him, psychedelics tend to result in overfitting. Suddenly, everything is about them. Leary and McKenna are actually good publicly known examples. And the phenomenon of "I have found the soltuion" without being able to actually name it, is also pretty common.
  - cjaackie 1y ago
    Found what I think is probably the video if anyone else is interested: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Pif-1bTmQZc https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Pif-1bTmQZc
    - lynx97 1y ago
      Yup, thanks for digging that up, that is the soundbite I was refering to.
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
- gchamonlive 1y ago
  > I think this notion that one must engage in philosophical study or appreciate "the goddess" to survive, enjoy and appreciate psychedelics is ridiculous. Cool. I think it's very important. I'll think really hard about philosophy when on drugs, you go do your thing ;) > There is no special 'truth' in LSD, certainly no truths outside the self What is the "outside of the self"? Isn't that smuggling in the assumption that there is an essential separation of the self and the rest of the world? What if everything is world? And what if everything is self? Does it make any difference? > while you can learn some things about your internal experience from it, it also repeatedly provokes in its users a false sense of the profound What is the correct sense of the profound and who is going to be the gatekeepers of the profound? > People experience 'realisations' which are pure nonsense when recalled or examined later. I have all my notes and they still make a lot of sense to me so I don't think this argument hold by experience. > But if you're looking for the meaning of life in there you're doing it wrong, and I dread to think what you might find. Is there a meaning to life to be found? I always thought the meaning of life is something you never stop pursuing, every day all the time. So please, tell me the right ways so I don't dread you. I'm being sarcastic in the same proportion you are being arrogant. Ah and thanks for proving my point about the necessity of philosophy.
jampekka 1y ago
> I take very modest amounts of LSD (100 maybe 150 micrograms) PSA: 100-150 micrograms of LSD is a medium to strong trip. For beginners its good to start low, perhaps 75 micrograms or lower. Edit: Also testing your reaction psychedelics in more controlled and calmer settings is highly recommended before doing in it raves or other public places. But also note that the effects may vary significantly even in the same person at different times and settings.
- dbbljack 1y ago
  counterpoint: you only get your first time, one time.
  - lukan 1y ago
    Yes. And I wish I would have started with 75 microgram.
  - heavyset_go 1y ago
    Less is more
  - jampekka 1y ago
    First time is rarely especially good. This applies to more or less all substances.
    - berkes 1y ago
      Wat? Maybe my bubble is different, but in my surroundings and experience, the exact opposite is true. Now, an important factor here is that a first time often comes with anxiety, insecurity, and even fear. With many substances these feelings get amplified so that makes the entire experience be mediocre or even bad. Especially for that, I think it's very important to experience this in a safe, loving, caring and depending on the type taken, controllable, silent, busy, energetic, dark, light etc environment.
    - junon 1y ago
      That's... not true, lol. That can be true, especially for psychedelics, but that's absolutely not true of other drugs. MDMA comes to mind. I've also heard (though not tried, nor will I) the harder narcotics such as heroine and meth are almost never as good as the first time. The first time being the best time is often exactly why people become addicts.
lynx97 1y ago
"We are the ones we have been waiting for" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-qw0Ud8Yx8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-qw0Ud8Yx8
wickedsight 1y ago
> I go to raves, I take very modest amounts of LSD (100 maybe 150 micrograms), and the whole experience turns into very spiritual session where I dance with my entire being and let myself disolve into the Great Void. Cool. And good for you, but this has honestly ruined 'raves' for me. I'm a huge fan of different types of electronic music and really, really enjoy it. The music itself is a spiritual experience and allows me to 'disolve into the Great Void'. But these days when I go to a festival or something, I'm surrounded by people I can't share this feeling/experience with, since everyone seems to be on some type of drug and either in their own world (X, LSD, etc) or think the world is in them (coke). I recently prematurely left an artist I was really looking forward to because of exactly this. It was incredibly disappointing, though not surprising.
- gchamonlive 1y ago
  Totally get your point. And I feel the same way. It's really hard to maintain a healthy state of mind when there is a dude overdosing with several paramedics trying to stabilise him. I still remember that time and it hurts me every time I think about it. But there are smaller raves, with 50-500 people, where I think this feeling is maintained. I'd maybe recommend avoiding what we call here "commercial raves" and go to "pvt's", private raves, which are not private, just with more modest economic goals.
latexr 1y ago
> I wasn't actually naked, it just felt like that and that everyone was eventually going to merge with me and that I should feel ashamed of it This reminded of Deep Space Nine’s Great Link. The drop becomes the ocean, and the ocean becomes a drop. https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Great_Link https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Great_Link
bjourne 1y ago
I read in a forum about psychedelics about a guy who had been carving up his whole arm while tripping on LSD. The response befuddled me and wasn't what I expected: "Classic newbie mistake", "Your own fault for tripping alone", and "You should put knifes and weapons away when you trip." It made me realize these people are like adopters of niche programming languages. To outsiders they tell everyone how great their language is and how you'll become 10x more productive switching to it. Only on bug trackers will you find out about lack of tooling support, stochastic compiler bugs, and bad api designs.
- Nursie 1y ago
  I would have said that was both horrific and unusual, rather than ‘classic’. Let’s not pretend it’s perfectly safe (what is?) but this is hardly ‘normal’.
  - bluGill 1y ago
    While it might not be normal, that type of thing is not unknown and alone is enough to mean everyone should avoid those drugs.
    - Nursie 1y ago
      I disagree, I think it is effectively unknown, vanishingly rare considering how many millions of doses have been consumed over decades. Let’s not pretend it’s 100% safe and foolproof, but that’s very far out of the ordinary.
    - e40 1y ago
      By your own logic you are fine with all alcohol being avoided, right? Psychedelics kill infinitely fewer people than alcohol, after all.
    - bregma 1y ago
      That kind of thing occurs far more often when someone has not used drugs. Logically, drug use should be mandatory to reduce the prevalence of such self-harm.
justinclift 1y ago
If you're up for it, the next time you're trying out LSD at a venue see if you can watch the GUNSHIP video "Ghost" on your phone: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUJuwNxNUWQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUJuwNxNUWQ Kind of suspect it'll make for a extra trippy trip. ;)
- aqme28 1y ago
  Opinions may vary of course, but I think LSD is best enjoyed without a phone at all.
wouldbecouldbe 1y ago
At first I read graves instead of raves. Now that would also be an interesting session with some deep dissolutions & insights, although maybe disrespectful.
codr7 1y ago
Muscimol and Mescaline likewise; unless you're on big pharama med, I'd say most hallucinogenics are worth trying.
bamboozled 1y ago
In more secular terms, you are here to do the required work to understand yourself, your circumstances, stand on the shoulder of giants and study the great minds that came before you Is that what kids who are born into starvation and poverty think ? Or just white guys with money ?
- gchamonlive 1y ago
  In the extremes of the human experience everything is meaningless. I remember I last time I sat down on my sofa after a rave and I just cried thinking about the kids in Gaza and how much life is unfair. I don't deserve so much, not more than these people that are starving, and yet I'm here. And I know that if I renounce everything I'll just be another starving person, albeit white. So I enjoy my life and you won't be able to make me feel any worse than I already feel about it. But I dedicate myself to charity and to serving people whenever I can. It's important to use your privileges to care and serve. There is always someone that your abilities can help and renouncing them, renouncing your condition is a disservice to society. Now answer me. How many people did your comment feed now? Which revolution did it fuel that will feed the masses?
  - bamboozled 1y ago
    Why is Gaza such a focus for your tears ? What about all the starving North Korean kids, dead Ukrainians etc? The point of my comment is to point out while that's your opinion on what the meaning of life is to sit around high, on couches contemplating philosophy (and good on you), it's very very far from a universally shared view, especially if you're born into starvation somewhere in Africa...
aantix 1y ago
How do you know your experience is not a placebo effect?
- gchamonlive 1y ago
  I don't know and honsetly I really don't care. What matters is what I do with it. It's really fun, I get a ton of physical exercise, I meet and talk to a lot of people, I help the organization with taking care of the garbage (I can't enjoy a rave fully if the land looks like a garbage dump). I then get all my insights, because my mind never stops thinking about philosophy, and I write them down. Rinse and repeat. It has profound effects in my life. Full disclaimer, I also exercise a lot, I have a fulfilling job in tech, I go to therapy, I dedicate myself to arts, I dedicate myself to my partner and my pets (which are almost like familiars for me). Is it placebo? Is it my lifestyle? Is it the drugs? I just apply non-interpretation to all these things that happen in my life and I go with it.
caycep 1y ago
I sometimes wonder - if the sensation of a "spiritual state" can be defined as a quantitative amount of some neurotransmitter in some circuit. That might be a sad day, though, for something that sounds so profound, to be reduced to numbers and probability.... The "out of body experience" ppl describe in near death always seemed to me to be a glitch of the brain's 3D perceptual space, i.e. a forced linear transform of 3D coordinates or something.
- gchamonlive 1y ago
  Just be careful when applying reductionism, it's always a tradeoff and you are leaving qualia behind to make these simplifications
username135 1y ago
All you touch And all you see Is all your life Will ever be

thinkingtoilet 1y ago

I would go as far as to say most people should have a psychedelic experience at least once in their life. There's nothing like it. It's one of the great pleasures of being alive.

gchamonlive 1y ago
Totally. It's just that that realisation must come from within, because the experience changes the very perception of reality and the relationship between yourself and everything else. With the wrong circumstances what would otherwise be a blissful experience can turn into a nightmare and this gate is likely forever closed for this person. I'd never forgive myself if I had this happen to someone else because of ill advice given by me.
reactordev 1y ago
And if that’s the case, do it in your early 20s in college or shortly after. Don’t do it in your 70s.
- gchamonlive 1y ago
  That is assuming everyone is ready to do it at the age of 20. If you are only ready to take them at 70s, why not do it? At that age you have other things to worry about anyway.
  - reactordev 1y ago
    Which is why you’ll be less likely to do it because you’ll be on a bunch of other drugs.
- BLKNSLVR 1y ago
  Why not in your 70s? Purely due to being more physically fragile, or more spiritually "settled"? Would it make a difference if it was a 70 year old who is still open minded and curious about life, the universe, and everything? (given that I'd guess that any 70+ year old willing to do LSD is likely to be as per this description). Legitimately interested in your answer / reasoning (mainly because my plan was to experience a number of different drugs once the rest of my life, that could have been put at risk by drugs, is kinda setup and done well enough).
  - reactordev 1y ago

brcmthrowaway 1y ago

[flagged]

010101010101 1y ago
Why?
- gchamonlive 1y ago
  For some people there is only the serious life for the serious man. Everyone else are just manchildren. And they are right. Give these drugs to these people, they will turn into manchildren because it's their reality, and it's true for them.

SlowTao 1y ago

Some of the best writing on the uses of LSD come from Alan watts. In his early life he said "it was impossible to bottle mysticism" and yet on dropping acid the first time felt like "they have completely bottled mysticism!". But then he noticed that the results really depend on who is taking it and what their world view is. If you do not have any inclination towards that mystic space, you will not get the ego death. It is as Eckhart Tolle said "just your senses turned up to 11", that is if there is nothing else you can get out of it. As Douglas Rushkoff said "If you give tech bros a hit of psychedelics, all you get is tech bros on psychedelics." There is no higher sense achieved.

gchamonlive 1y ago
It's because meaning isn't essential to the universe, but derived from human experience. The universe needs us just as much as we need the universe. Actually this separation is an artifact of reductionism we have to let go. In any case, this is why I think philosophy is the required work to be done so that we can invite spiritualism and mysticism into our lives and potentially experience them with these reality altering drugs.
- throwaway7783 1y ago
  Nothing is essential to the universe, the universe does not need us. We need it exactly as it is today, and that is it. Everything else is stuff we made up to understand the universe weakly, or to cope with life. This is not nihilism, but meaning to life is meaningful only in the context of humans and has nothing to do with universe needing us.
  - josephg 1y ago
    If we’re gonna talk trip philosophy, then: This is only true at the physical level. At another level, the only thing that “exists” is a mind. If all you have is a bunch of rocks floating through space with nothing to perceive it, the universe is indistinguishable from emptiness. Experience lives at the intersection of instantiated reality and thought / perception. You need both. You can also imagine travelling along the axis of an idea or an archetype through time and space. For example, the idea of lovers or warriors or something. Each instantiation of that idea in someone exists along that axis. The idea can only come into being inside a physical reality or simulation. But the idea itself is eternal. The idea of the number 1 doesn’t “need” the universe. Ideas aren’t made out of atoms.

o1bf2k25n8g5 1y ago

> ...you are here to do the required work to understand yourself, your circumstances, stand on the shoulder of giants and study the great minds that came before you. Just to offer a counterpoint: “I tell you, we are here on Earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you different.” ― Kurt Vonnegut The more I experience, the more I think maybe that's a pretty good point, too.

gchamonlive 1y ago
It's like the nihilist denying any meaning to the world. It's because they choose to see it that way even if they aren't aware of it. If you choose to fart around, whatever that means, don't let anyone tell you otherwise. Since there's no salvation, farts are also meaningless, and at the same time totally meaningful given the circumstances.
- rags2riches 1y ago
  > Since there's no salvation, farts are also meaningless That's begging the question. I'd argue that all meaning is in how we fart around.
- ramblerman 1y ago
  Vonnegut sounds closer to an epicurist. A nihilist would say fart or don't fart it's all pointless.
- baq 1y ago
  Meaning is what you want it to be. If you don’t know what it is and don’t know what you want, you either fart around or resign.
- jona-f 1y ago
  As a nihilist my sense of meaning seams to be compatible to yours. I don't deny that we can come up with all sorts of meanings but the point is that there is no intrinsically higher meaning to everything, it's all made up. In fact, the awareness of this is the basis of my nihilism. That doesn't mean, that I don't like some meanings more than others, otherwise I had no reason to act whatsoever.

bongodongobob 1y ago

Nah, if you think you want to do it, do it, and I think a lot of people would benefit from a little peer pressure of having a half dose. It's all social stigma, all of the fear is from bullshit stories of turning into a glass of orange juice: that shit doesn't happen. Take a half hit of acid and you'll wish you took more. Every person I've I introduced it to has agreed. It's not that big of a deal. You aren't going to wreck your brain. It's not something that will ALTER YOUR LIFE PERMANENTLY!!! It's a drug and you'll be fuckin fine. It very much IS set and setting and the powers that be really want to fuck up the set. Try it. You won't regret it.

gchamonlive 1y ago
My point is, even though there is no unsafe dose of LSD, bad trips are real and can totally lock yourself out of it psychologically. My advice has to be very careful in order not to incentivise unprepared people who would otherwise have a great trip. We have to be responsible, even if it'll only gonna negatively affect a very small percentage of them. Applied philosophy of care 100% Other than that, I totally agree.
- bongodongobob 1y ago
  I think the bad trips are good though, it's almost the point. Why are you feeling bad? It's usually because you're in a physical or mental place you don't want to be, yet, when sober, you think it is where you should be. The incongruity of the situation is the lesson and the point. When I was in college, I tracked down some mushrooms, bought em, and ran away on my own to trip out. I found myself on a bench, next to a river surrounded by trash in a mixed industrial area. I saw cig butts and empty beer cans on the ground. Looked at my ripped jeans and thought "Am I trash? Why am I here?" It was a shitty feeling and I got really down. I realized that getting fucked up for its own sake was stupid, and it's about sharing time with others that's actually important, no matter what drug you're on. I started crying and felt horrible, but the next day, I had a new sense of worth and a new frame of reference for the world that has persisted for 20+ years. I'll always remember that shitty trip on that shitty bench.

bowsamic 1y ago

The truth is fully accessible through reason, you don’t need to take drugs to know things

LoganDark 1y ago
No, but LSD helped me see things that couldn't be learned from outside. For some reason, it helps me recall childhood memories better. Sure maybe there's some guided therapy session that could have done that, but LSD gives it to me for free, along with a whole lot of other stuff.
- bowsamic 1y ago
  All knowledge that can be gained through LSD is contingent and experiential, not universal and certain I’m well aware through my own testing EDIT: I’m not saying it is useless information for your life but it is particular to your life, not truths of the universe like the person I replied to claimed
  - LoganDark 1y ago
    Oh, of course, nothing about LSD can give me access to things that my brain just doesn't have access to. It can help with the things that already are in my brain though.
    - bowsamic 1y ago
      Your brain does have access to all rational truth
      - LoganDark 1y ago
        My brain has the ability to claim anything it wants as truth. I prefer for my truth to either be consistent with an objective or empirical truth, or be measurably opposed to truths I disagree with (and to a known degree). I don't always achieve this and I'm not always the best at being open-minded but it is the goal, I would think.

illiac786 1y ago

Would you say the following are (individually taken) red flags for trying it: * being terrified of letting loose (even with something common in the local culture, for example alcohol) * having zero belief in the mysticism

AgentMatt 1y ago
> being terrified of letting loose (even with something common in the local culture, for example alcohol) In that case, I would suggest working a bit on that first. Meditation can help, but "terrified" sounds strong enough that trying out therapy if available may be worthwhile. Regarding substances, I found mushrooms to be easier than LSD, with a kind of warmth that softens the psychedelic experience (without taking anything away from it). The effects also don't last as long. A non-psychedelic which can allow one to face difficult emotions is MDMA. In some countries you can find MDMA based therapy. This could prepare someone to become more open to what psychedelics have to offer. (Edit: Also, all of these substances have effects that are not comparable to alcohol at all. Trying to understand the effects of psychedelics/empathogens based on experiences with alcohol is a category error.) Based on my limited experience, I would roughly categorize the relation of these substances to the idea of control like this: LSD: you might feel like there's some control, but you're actually the playball of the substance Mushrooms: the substance draws you in some direction, and it's best to just lean into it, but it'll support you in doing so MDMA: there's no need for control, things are okay the way they are > having zero belief in the mysticism That depends on what exactly this means. Have some knowledge of "mysticism" or some eastern worldviews / philosophy, without taking it too seriously, would be a good basis IMO. Actively rejecting any ideas related to mysticism while clinging tightly to a specific world view / metaphysics (and related beliefs like "I can only allow something if I understand / can explain it") may lead someone to have a really bad time on psychedelics. --- Note that this isn't advice about whether to consume anything or what to consume, and experiences can vary widely between individuals, settings, dosages etc. (For both assumptions above, is possible to construct higly positive outcomes, where the substance helped overcome problems, opens one up, etc. and negative ones, horror trip, lasting trauma from the trip, ...) Having someone experienced present when doing something like this for the first time is highly recommended.
1y ago

Nursie 1y ago

I think this notion that one must engage in philosophical study or appreciate "the goddess" to survive, enjoy and appreciate psychedelics is ridiculous. There is no special 'truth' in LSD, certainly no truths outside the self - while you can learn some things about your internal experience from it, it also repeatedly provokes in its users a false sense of the profound. People experience 'realisations' which are pure nonsense when recalled or examined later. It makes your brain go haywire in all sorts of fun and interesting ways. But if you're looking for the meaning of life in there you're doing it wrong, and I dread to think what you might find.

lynx97 1y ago
Joscha Bach summed this up in a very succint way in an interview once. Paraphrasing him, psychedelics tend to result in overfitting. Suddenly, everything is about them. Leary and McKenna are actually good publicly known examples. And the phenomenon of "I have found the soltuion" without being able to actually name it, is also pretty common.
- cjaackie 1y ago
  Found what I think is probably the video if anyone else is interested: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Pif-1bTmQZc https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Pif-1bTmQZc
  - lynx97 1y ago
    Yup, thanks for digging that up, that is the soundbite I was refering to.
deleted 1y ago
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gchamonlive 1y ago
> I think this notion that one must engage in philosophical study or appreciate "the goddess" to survive, enjoy and appreciate psychedelics is ridiculous. Cool. I think it's very important. I'll think really hard about philosophy when on drugs, you go do your thing ;) > There is no special 'truth' in LSD, certainly no truths outside the self What is the "outside of the self"? Isn't that smuggling in the assumption that there is an essential separation of the self and the rest of the world? What if everything is world? And what if everything is self? Does it make any difference? > while you can learn some things about your internal experience from it, it also repeatedly provokes in its users a false sense of the profound What is the correct sense of the profound and who is going to be the gatekeepers of the profound? > People experience 'realisations' which are pure nonsense when recalled or examined later. I have all my notes and they still make a lot of sense to me so I don't think this argument hold by experience. > But if you're looking for the meaning of life in there you're doing it wrong, and I dread to think what you might find. Is there a meaning to life to be found? I always thought the meaning of life is something you never stop pursuing, every day all the time. So please, tell me the right ways so I don't dread you. I'm being sarcastic in the same proportion you are being arrogant. Ah and thanks for proving my point about the necessity of philosophy.

jampekka 1y ago

> I take very modest amounts of LSD (100 maybe 150 micrograms) PSA: 100-150 micrograms of LSD is a medium to strong trip. For beginners its good to start low, perhaps 75 micrograms or lower. Edit: Also testing your reaction psychedelics in more controlled and calmer settings is highly recommended before doing in it raves or other public places. But also note that the effects may vary significantly even in the same person at different times and settings.

dbbljack 1y ago
counterpoint: you only get your first time, one time.
- lukan 1y ago
  Yes. And I wish I would have started with 75 microgram.
- heavyset_go 1y ago
  Less is more
- jampekka 1y ago
  First time is rarely especially good. This applies to more or less all substances.
  - berkes 1y ago
    Wat? Maybe my bubble is different, but in my surroundings and experience, the exact opposite is true. Now, an important factor here is that a first time often comes with anxiety, insecurity, and even fear. With many substances these feelings get amplified so that makes the entire experience be mediocre or even bad. Especially for that, I think it's very important to experience this in a safe, loving, caring and depending on the type taken, controllable, silent, busy, energetic, dark, light etc environment.
  - junon 1y ago
    That's... not true, lol. That can be true, especially for psychedelics, but that's absolutely not true of other drugs. MDMA comes to mind. I've also heard (though not tried, nor will I) the harder narcotics such as heroine and meth are almost never as good as the first time. The first time being the best time is often exactly why people become addicts.

lynx97 1y ago

"We are the ones we have been waiting for" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-qw0Ud8Yx8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-qw0Ud8Yx8

wickedsight 1y ago

> I go to raves, I take very modest amounts of LSD (100 maybe 150 micrograms), and the whole experience turns into very spiritual session where I dance with my entire being and let myself disolve into the Great Void. Cool. And good for you, but this has honestly ruined 'raves' for me. I'm a huge fan of different types of electronic music and really, really enjoy it. The music itself is a spiritual experience and allows me to 'disolve into the Great Void'. But these days when I go to a festival or something, I'm surrounded by people I can't share this feeling/experience with, since everyone seems to be on some type of drug and either in their own world (X, LSD, etc) or think the world is in them (coke). I recently prematurely left an artist I was really looking forward to because of exactly this. It was incredibly disappointing, though not surprising.

gchamonlive 1y ago
Totally get your point. And I feel the same way. It's really hard to maintain a healthy state of mind when there is a dude overdosing with several paramedics trying to stabilise him. I still remember that time and it hurts me every time I think about it. But there are smaller raves, with 50-500 people, where I think this feeling is maintained. I'd maybe recommend avoiding what we call here "commercial raves" and go to "pvt's", private raves, which are not private, just with more modest economic goals.

latexr 1y ago

> I wasn't actually naked, it just felt like that and that everyone was eventually going to merge with me and that I should feel ashamed of it This reminded of Deep Space Nine’s Great Link. The drop becomes the ocean, and the ocean becomes a drop. https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Great_Link https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Great_Link

bjourne 1y ago

I read in a forum about psychedelics about a guy who had been carving up his whole arm while tripping on LSD. The response befuddled me and wasn't what I expected: "Classic newbie mistake", "Your own fault for tripping alone", and "You should put knifes and weapons away when you trip." It made me realize these people are like adopters of niche programming languages. To outsiders they tell everyone how great their language is and how you'll become 10x more productive switching to it. Only on bug trackers will you find out about lack of tooling support, stochastic compiler bugs, and bad api designs.

Nursie 1y ago
I would have said that was both horrific and unusual, rather than ‘classic’. Let’s not pretend it’s perfectly safe (what is?) but this is hardly ‘normal’.
- bluGill 1y ago
  While it might not be normal, that type of thing is not unknown and alone is enough to mean everyone should avoid those drugs.
  - Nursie 1y ago
    I disagree, I think it is effectively unknown, vanishingly rare considering how many millions of doses have been consumed over decades. Let’s not pretend it’s 100% safe and foolproof, but that’s very far out of the ordinary.
  - e40 1y ago
    By your own logic you are fine with all alcohol being avoided, right? Psychedelics kill infinitely fewer people than alcohol, after all.
  - bregma 1y ago
    That kind of thing occurs far more often when someone has not used drugs. Logically, drug use should be mandatory to reduce the prevalence of such self-harm.

justinclift 1y ago

If you're up for it, the next time you're trying out LSD at a venue see if you can watch the GUNSHIP video "Ghost" on your phone: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUJuwNxNUWQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUJuwNxNUWQ Kind of suspect it'll make for a extra trippy trip. ;)

aqme28 1y ago
Opinions may vary of course, but I think LSD is best enjoyed without a phone at all.

wouldbecouldbe 1y ago

At first I read graves instead of raves. Now that would also be an interesting session with some deep dissolutions & insights, although maybe disrespectful.

codr7 1y ago

Muscimol and Mescaline likewise; unless you're on big pharama med, I'd say most hallucinogenics are worth trying.

bamboozled 1y ago

In more secular terms, you are here to do the required work to understand yourself, your circumstances, stand on the shoulder of giants and study the great minds that came before you Is that what kids who are born into starvation and poverty think ? Or just white guys with money ?

gchamonlive 1y ago
In the extremes of the human experience everything is meaningless. I remember I last time I sat down on my sofa after a rave and I just cried thinking about the kids in Gaza and how much life is unfair. I don't deserve so much, not more than these people that are starving, and yet I'm here. And I know that if I renounce everything I'll just be another starving person, albeit white. So I enjoy my life and you won't be able to make me feel any worse than I already feel about it. But I dedicate myself to charity and to serving people whenever I can. It's important to use your privileges to care and serve. There is always someone that your abilities can help and renouncing them, renouncing your condition is a disservice to society. Now answer me. How many people did your comment feed now? Which revolution did it fuel that will feed the masses?
- bamboozled 1y ago
  Why is Gaza such a focus for your tears ? What about all the starving North Korean kids, dead Ukrainians etc? The point of my comment is to point out while that's your opinion on what the meaning of life is to sit around high, on couches contemplating philosophy (and good on you), it's very very far from a universally shared view, especially if you're born into starvation somewhere in Africa...

aantix 1y ago

How do you know your experience is not a placebo effect?

gchamonlive 1y ago
I don't know and honsetly I really don't care. What matters is what I do with it. It's really fun, I get a ton of physical exercise, I meet and talk to a lot of people, I help the organization with taking care of the garbage (I can't enjoy a rave fully if the land looks like a garbage dump). I then get all my insights, because my mind never stops thinking about philosophy, and I write them down. Rinse and repeat. It has profound effects in my life. Full disclaimer, I also exercise a lot, I have a fulfilling job in tech, I go to therapy, I dedicate myself to arts, I dedicate myself to my partner and my pets (which are almost like familiars for me). Is it placebo? Is it my lifestyle? Is it the drugs? I just apply non-interpretation to all these things that happen in my life and I go with it.

caycep 1y ago

I sometimes wonder - if the sensation of a "spiritual state" can be defined as a quantitative amount of some neurotransmitter in some circuit. That might be a sad day, though, for something that sounds so profound, to be reduced to numbers and probability.... The "out of body experience" ppl describe in near death always seemed to me to be a glitch of the brain's 3D perceptual space, i.e. a forced linear transform of 3D coordinates or something.

gchamonlive 1y ago
Just be careful when applying reductionism, it's always a tradeoff and you are leaving qualia behind to make these simplifications

username135 1y ago

All you touch And all you see Is all your life Will ever be