6 ms·

Isn't it concerning that the hype and billions in investment is mostly steering towards finding that the only paying customer base are ergonomics tasks for othe

by weego 1y ago

Isn't it concerning that the hype and billions in investment is mostly steering towards finding that the only paying customer base are ergonomics tasks for other developers? Not exactly looking like the world changer right now

mewpmewp2 1y ago
Why is that concerning? I think it's amazing. Also these things will improve other products indirectly.
- iLoveOncall 1y ago
  Because it shows it's a bubble, and when a bubble of this size, invested by that many actors, pops, it has a devastating impact on everyone.
thtmnisamnstr 1y ago
I'm a marketer. I write a lot. GPT-4.5 is really good at natural sounding writing. It's nearing the point where it would be worth $200/mth for me to have access to it all the time.
- seydor 1y ago
  If everyone is as good as you , how much will your work cost?
  - cptvideo 1y ago
    A better question might be: "If everyone is as good as you, how much will you be worth in the marketplace?"
    - thomquaid 1y ago
      Approximately $200/month apparently.
    - karlgkk 1y ago
      Well, an even better question might be: if everyone is the same, what does it take to be exceptional? I'm firmly convinced that being able to troubleshoot code, even code generated by LLMs, and to write guidelines and tests to make sure it's functioning, is a skill of a shrinking pool For smaller stuff, great. Everyone's the same. The second your application starts gaining responsibility and complexity, you're going to need to be able to demonstrate reproducibility and reliability of your application to stakeholders. Like, your job increasingly will be creating interface checkpoints in the code, and then having the model generate each step of the pipeline. That's great, but you have understand and validate what it wrote, AND have a rich set of very comprehensive tests to be able to iterate quickly. And as mentioned, on top of that, large swaths of the field of new people have their brains completely rotted by these tools. (certainly not all new/young people, but i've seen some real rough shit) If anything, I see a weird gap opening up - people who dont adopt these tools start falling out of the industry - they're too slow - people who adopt these tools too early stop getting hired - they're too risky - people who have experience in industry/troubleshooting/etc, who adopt these tools, become modern day cobol programmers - they're charging $700 an hour the real question to me is this: does the amount of people taken out of the pool by being slow or risky due to these tools, outpace the reduction in jobs caused by these tools?
      - MoonGhost 1y ago
        > I'm firmly convinced that being able to troubleshoot code, even code generated by LLMs, and to write guidelines and tests to make sure it's functioning, is a skill of a shrinking pool Well, today only scientists can make stone tools.
        karlgkk 1y ago
        I’m not sure the point you’re trying to make but I’ve had so many junior level interviewees and interactions where they are unable to do anything without an LLM coaching them the whole way. This is dangerous! It’s like if I was hiring a mathematician. I’d expect them to use a calculator or CAS package but I’d also expect them to be able to do everything by hand. I wouldn’t ever waste their time by making them do that, of course.
  - victorbjorklund 1y ago
    It probably would be just like with developers. A great developer + an AI = productive. A shitty developer + an AI = still shit. AI does not make all developers the same. And it doesn't make all marketers the same.
- rahimnathwani 1y ago
  I used the GPT-4.5 API to write a novel, with a reasonably simple loop-based workflow. The novel was good enough that my son read the whole thing. And he has no issue quitting a book part way through if it becomes boring.
  - skybrian 1y ago
    I’m curious: what was the novel about?
    - rahimnathwani 1y ago
      It's a comedic adventure novel set in the Minecraft universe. Actually I forgot there's a second one he read all the way through, for which he defined the initial concept and early plot, but then the rest of the plot and the writing were all done by GPT-4.5. The code is kind of basic, and each chapter is written without the full text of prior chapters, but the output isn't bad. https://gist.github.com/rahimnathwani/41e5bc475163cd5ea4382226c213df90 https://gist.github.com/rahimnathwani/41e5bc475163cd5ea43822...
      - f3b5 1y ago
        Very fascinating, I tried doing the same years ago with a simple Markov chain model. The biggest problem back then was inconsistency. I'd love to read a chapter of the Minecraft or hard magic / sci-fi books to check out the writing.
        rahimnathwani 1y ago
        Email in profile.
      - Aeolun 1y ago
        Not having access to earlier chapters is a terrible thing, but maybe possible if you aren’t too bothered by inconsistency (or your chapter summaries are explicit enough about what is supposed to happen I suppose). I find the quality rapidly degrades as soon as I run out of context to fit the whole text of the novel. Even summarizing the chapters doesn’t work well.
- kobe19900701 1y ago
  I think writing claude sonnet 4 is more human - like.
- hooverd 1y ago
  I wish all LLM-written marketing copy had disclaimers so I knew never to waste my time reading it.
stevage 1y ago
Eh, those are early adopters. My partner is not a coder but uses copilot a lot. Compare this to blockchain, which never did anything useful for anyone after 20 years.
- beering 1y ago
  Wrong. Blockchain has actually found successful product market fit in several areas: - ransomware payments - money transfers for online and telephone scams - buying illegal drugs online - funding North Korea’s government
  - stevage 1y ago
    Well, yes :) But I was talking within the same context as the thread, which is business.
    - Wowfunhappy 1y ago
      But those are examples of business. ;) (I apologize for being a smart aleck.)
  - rrr_oh_man 1y ago
    - bribing the USA’s president
  - gloosx 1y ago
    very funny, let's not forget: - avoiding monetary tyranny in not-so-well developed authoritarian countries maybe not so important for you, but for some people it is simply a matter of acquiring food and medicine, because a working member of their family has just one way to support his relatives by sending them money from abroad, and it is bitcoin
ihsw 1y ago
[dead]
skerit 1y ago
I've been using Claude-Code for a few weeks now, and honestly, calling this just "ergonomic" tasks feels like a huge understatement. This thing is straight up writing code for me - real, functional code that actually works. I'm being ridiculously productive with it. I've even finally found the time to tackle some hobby projects that have been sitting on my back burner for literally years. Claude just tears through problems at breakneck speed. And you know what? It's actually fun again! I forgot how enjoyable coding could be when you're not getting bogged down in the tedious stuff. Sure, maybe the big revolutionary applications haven't materialized yet, but when a tool can take something that would have taken me days and knock it out in an afternoon? That doesn't feel like just "making things more comfortable" - that feels pretty transformative to me, at least for how I work.
- dncornholio 1y ago
  You're a young guy that just dabbled in coding or are you a senior software developer?
  - burgerzzz 1y ago
    Idk, I’ve been doing this for 15 years professionally and many years before and it’s still amazing to me
  - zackham 1y ago
    I'll add to the sibling comment and say I've been writing software for money for 25+ years, have a CS degree, and have found immense leverage with these tools. I put in the time on hobby projects over the past couple years to figure out how best to integrate it all into my work, and now I'm in a place where it's saving me significant amounts of time every time I produce code, and I'm getting the quality of results the project demands. I use gemini-2.5-pro, claude-4-sonnet, and o3 for different purposes, and have a variety of techniques to avoid pitfalls and get the results I'm looking for. There are a lot of ways to unsatisfactory results, but it's possible to get usable results that save time. I've shared my enthusiasm and seen other devs dabble, get poor results, and go back to their practiced methods of writing software–so I'm not surprised to see so many skeptics and naysayers. It isn't easy or obvious how to make this stuff work for you in larger codebases and for meatier problems. That doesn't mean it's impossible, and it doesn't mean it's not worth it to climb the learning curve. As the models and tools get better, it's getting a lot easier, so I suspect we'll see the number of people denying the utility of LLM-generated code to shrink. Personally, I'd rather be reaping the benefits as early as possible, because I can get more stuff done faster and more pleasantly.
lubujackson 1y ago
Nope, this is exactly how the Internet at large grew up. First, the breathless nerds. Then, the greater swath of nerds (where we are). And this is when people start to get excited in various degrees while others say stuff like "no one will ever want to fuss with dialup and a second phone line" or "no one will ever put real info or use credit cards online". Then a couple years later, grandma is calling you over to fix her Netzero and away we go...

by weego 1y ago

mewpmewp2 1y ago

Why is that concerning? I think it's amazing. Also these things will improve other products indirectly.

iLoveOncall 1y ago
Because it shows it's a bubble, and when a bubble of this size, invested by that many actors, pops, it has a devastating impact on everyone.

thtmnisamnstr 1y ago

I'm a marketer. I write a lot. GPT-4.5 is really good at natural sounding writing. It's nearing the point where it would be worth $200/mth for me to have access to it all the time.

seydor 1y ago
If everyone is as good as you , how much will your work cost?
- cptvideo 1y ago
  A better question might be: "If everyone is as good as you, how much will you be worth in the marketplace?"
  - thomquaid 1y ago
    Approximately $200/month apparently.
  - karlgkk 1y ago
    Well, an even better question might be: if everyone is the same, what does it take to be exceptional? I'm firmly convinced that being able to troubleshoot code, even code generated by LLMs, and to write guidelines and tests to make sure it's functioning, is a skill of a shrinking pool For smaller stuff, great. Everyone's the same. The second your application starts gaining responsibility and complexity, you're going to need to be able to demonstrate reproducibility and reliability of your application to stakeholders. Like, your job increasingly will be creating interface checkpoints in the code, and then having the model generate each step of the pipeline. That's great, but you have understand and validate what it wrote, AND have a rich set of very comprehensive tests to be able to iterate quickly. And as mentioned, on top of that, large swaths of the field of new people have their brains completely rotted by these tools. (certainly not all new/young people, but i've seen some real rough shit) If anything, I see a weird gap opening up - people who dont adopt these tools start falling out of the industry - they're too slow - people who adopt these tools too early stop getting hired - they're too risky - people who have experience in industry/troubleshooting/etc, who adopt these tools, become modern day cobol programmers - they're charging $700 an hour the real question to me is this: does the amount of people taken out of the pool by being slow or risky due to these tools, outpace the reduction in jobs caused by these tools?
    - MoonGhost 1y ago
      > I'm firmly convinced that being able to troubleshoot code, even code generated by LLMs, and to write guidelines and tests to make sure it's functioning, is a skill of a shrinking pool Well, today only scientists can make stone tools.
      - karlgkk 1y ago
        I’m not sure the point you’re trying to make but I’ve had so many junior level interviewees and interactions where they are unable to do anything without an LLM coaching them the whole way. This is dangerous! It’s like if I was hiring a mathematician. I’d expect them to use a calculator or CAS package but I’d also expect them to be able to do everything by hand. I wouldn’t ever waste their time by making them do that, of course.
- victorbjorklund 1y ago
  It probably would be just like with developers. A great developer + an AI = productive. A shitty developer + an AI = still shit. AI does not make all developers the same. And it doesn't make all marketers the same.
rahimnathwani 1y ago
I used the GPT-4.5 API to write a novel, with a reasonably simple loop-based workflow. The novel was good enough that my son read the whole thing. And he has no issue quitting a book part way through if it becomes boring.
- skybrian 1y ago
  I’m curious: what was the novel about?
  - rahimnathwani 1y ago
    It's a comedic adventure novel set in the Minecraft universe. Actually I forgot there's a second one he read all the way through, for which he defined the initial concept and early plot, but then the rest of the plot and the writing were all done by GPT-4.5. The code is kind of basic, and each chapter is written without the full text of prior chapters, but the output isn't bad. https://gist.github.com/rahimnathwani/41e5bc475163cd5ea4382226c213df90 https://gist.github.com/rahimnathwani/41e5bc475163cd5ea43822...
    - f3b5 1y ago
      Very fascinating, I tried doing the same years ago with a simple Markov chain model. The biggest problem back then was inconsistency. I'd love to read a chapter of the Minecraft or hard magic / sci-fi books to check out the writing.
      - rahimnathwani 1y ago
        Email in profile.
    - Aeolun 1y ago
      Not having access to earlier chapters is a terrible thing, but maybe possible if you aren’t too bothered by inconsistency (or your chapter summaries are explicit enough about what is supposed to happen I suppose). I find the quality rapidly degrades as soon as I run out of context to fit the whole text of the novel. Even summarizing the chapters doesn’t work well.
kobe19900701 1y ago
I think writing claude sonnet 4 is more human - like.
hooverd 1y ago
I wish all LLM-written marketing copy had disclaimers so I knew never to waste my time reading it.

stevage 1y ago

Eh, those are early adopters. My partner is not a coder but uses copilot a lot. Compare this to blockchain, which never did anything useful for anyone after 20 years.

beering 1y ago
Wrong. Blockchain has actually found successful product market fit in several areas: - ransomware payments - money transfers for online and telephone scams - buying illegal drugs online - funding North Korea’s government
- stevage 1y ago
  Well, yes :) But I was talking within the same context as the thread, which is business.
  - Wowfunhappy 1y ago
    But those are examples of business. ;) (I apologize for being a smart aleck.)
- rrr_oh_man 1y ago
  - bribing the USA’s president
- gloosx 1y ago
  very funny, let's not forget: - avoiding monetary tyranny in not-so-well developed authoritarian countries maybe not so important for you, but for some people it is simply a matter of acquiring food and medicine, because a working member of their family has just one way to support his relatives by sending them money from abroad, and it is bitcoin

ihsw 1y ago

[dead]

skerit 1y ago

I've been using Claude-Code for a few weeks now, and honestly, calling this just "ergonomic" tasks feels like a huge understatement. This thing is straight up writing code for me - real, functional code that actually works. I'm being ridiculously productive with it. I've even finally found the time to tackle some hobby projects that have been sitting on my back burner for literally years. Claude just tears through problems at breakneck speed. And you know what? It's actually fun again! I forgot how enjoyable coding could be when you're not getting bogged down in the tedious stuff. Sure, maybe the big revolutionary applications haven't materialized yet, but when a tool can take something that would have taken me days and knock it out in an afternoon? That doesn't feel like just "making things more comfortable" - that feels pretty transformative to me, at least for how I work.

dncornholio 1y ago
You're a young guy that just dabbled in coding or are you a senior software developer?
- burgerzzz 1y ago
  Idk, I’ve been doing this for 15 years professionally and many years before and it’s still amazing to me
- zackham 1y ago
  I'll add to the sibling comment and say I've been writing software for money for 25+ years, have a CS degree, and have found immense leverage with these tools. I put in the time on hobby projects over the past couple years to figure out how best to integrate it all into my work, and now I'm in a place where it's saving me significant amounts of time every time I produce code, and I'm getting the quality of results the project demands. I use gemini-2.5-pro, claude-4-sonnet, and o3 for different purposes, and have a variety of techniques to avoid pitfalls and get the results I'm looking for. There are a lot of ways to unsatisfactory results, but it's possible to get usable results that save time. I've shared my enthusiasm and seen other devs dabble, get poor results, and go back to their practiced methods of writing software–so I'm not surprised to see so many skeptics and naysayers. It isn't easy or obvious how to make this stuff work for you in larger codebases and for meatier problems. That doesn't mean it's impossible, and it doesn't mean it's not worth it to climb the learning curve. As the models and tools get better, it's getting a lot easier, so I suspect we'll see the number of people denying the utility of LLM-generated code to shrink. Personally, I'd rather be reaping the benefits as early as possible, because I can get more stuff done faster and more pleasantly.

lubujackson 1y ago

Nope, this is exactly how the Internet at large grew up. First, the breathless nerds. Then, the greater swath of nerds (where we are). And this is when people start to get excited in various degrees while others say stuff like "no one will ever want to fuss with dialup and a second phone line" or "no one will ever put real info or use credit cards online". Then a couple years later, grandma is calling you over to fix her Netzero and away we go...