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A bottom up cultural shift is required to change startup culture in Europe. I have lived in both the USA and UK, attempted various startups in both. Reactions o

by reedf1 1y ago

A bottom up cultural shift is required to change startup culture in Europe. I have lived in both the USA and UK, attempted various startups in both. Reactions of family in UK and around Europe - I've given up a simple life to be a chancer, small setbacks are seen as enormous failures, every discussion is commiseration, enormous skepticism. USA friends and family are universally positive, respectful, full-throated and full-hearted behind what I've done, they view my goals as meaningful despite failures. This starts at the bottom and bubbles up to media, investors, company and government.

izacus 1y ago
Why is it "required"? What's so desirable in the american mindset that folks so badly need in EU?
- bryanrasmussen 1y ago
  the meaning of required in the relevant sentence is not "we are required to do this because it should be done" but rather "if we want that step 2 gets done then step 1 would be required for step 2 to get done."
- reedf1 1y ago
  Why represent my point like that? "is required to change startup culture in Europe." If you don't want it, don't change.
  - K0balt 1y ago
    Poor reading comprehension skills or a bad faith interpretation. Either way, what you wrote was absolutely fine.
- greyman 1y ago
  Because all that scepticism, non-support etc. are like small micro-defeats that will suck the life energy. Not to mention all those taxes which sucks money energy. :-) But the deeper reason I see in in Europe is that everything is biased towards big and old, and not new and small.
- koonsolo 1y ago
  US: "You are my friend, so your success means my success" Europe: "You are my friend, so your success makes me look like a failure, and your failure makes me look like a success"
FirmwareBurner 1y ago
>A bottom up cultural shift is required to change startup culture in Europe. History and the study of Volksgeists shows that's almost impossible without any major revolutionary event. The status quo Europeans have had for centuries was their lives being at the mercy of some higher monarchic power, be it emperors, kings, lords, etc, then revolutionary communists, fascists, dictators, etc, and post-WW2 at the mercy of the social welfare state to handle everything for you. There was never a period our relatively recent history where we could just do whatever we wanted, without the ruling powers interfering some way or dictating the rules till the next regime change, and so the Volksgeist inherited and passed on that status quo across generations, kind of like Plato's cave, or like a fish in the water. That's why many Europeans who felt held back or persecuted by the status quo fled to the US decades/centuries ago. This is totally opposite to the American way of life since 1776 where the state was mostly hands-off to leave you alone and would not help you out, nor get in your way, you'd live or die based on your own individual actions. I realize this is different today for Americans, with the government having way more taxes, regulations and social services than in 1776, but the original Volksgeist around minimalist government, individualism, personal freedom and self-responsibility still prevails. So people can say "we need to change" all they want, but the reality is that's never gonna happen, Europeans aren't gonna become Americans and Americans aren't gonna become Europeans, the cultural inertia is too powerful, and you can't fight against the stream.
- vb-8448 1y ago
  mmm ... your argument doesn't explain why China is more succesfully? They used to have some higher power since forever
  - FirmwareBurner 1y ago
    Some European nations were also successful when ruled by higher powers, see the colonial empires of Britain, France, Spain, Portugal, etc. but so many wanna-be world powers occupying a small space led to constant conflicts, limited freedoms, bloody regime changes, and the famous self-immolations of WW1 and WW2 which finally introduced modern democracy to Europe and a end(on paper) to their focus on world domination. My point is, it can be easy to become economically successful like China when you're a large country with massive human capital and don't give a fuck about democracy, slavery, human abuse and welfare, regulations, etc. and prioritize money at all cost. It's how most empires became empires.
api 1y ago
A saying of my own: America is superficially conservative and deeply liberal, while Europe is superficially liberal and deeply conservative. Tangentially, it’s why I don’t think authoritarian reactionary stuff will “take” here for any length of time. The instant Americans figure out it’s anything more than a stylistic performative way to “own” the other side — the instant they are actually told what to do — it is over.
- fallingknife 1y ago
  This is very true. No real American trusts authority, whether that is the government, or large companies, or other institutions like universities. This is why Uber could get away with breaking the law as long as they were still seen as a small startup.
- simonjgreen 1y ago
  That’s a clever aphorism, but it’s overly simplistic and misunderstands both contexts. America’s foundational ethos - individualism, market primacy, and suspicion of state power - is deeply libertarian, not liberal in the European sense. Meanwhile, much of Europe has embedded egalitarianism and social solidarity into its institutions - not superficial liberalism, but deeply held post-war consensus. The “deep conservatism” in Europe is often just a reflection of cultural continuity, not ideological rigidity. It’s more accurate to say both continents contain layers of contradiction, but projecting neat labels misses the complexities of their political DNA. As a European that has spent a significant amount of time over the last 5 years in America this has been a cultural learning for me.
  - TheNewsIsHere 1y ago
    I would add that the original submission also brushes aside the very real problem that the US has what is effectively a widespread cult of fascists whose leader is the sitting President. We’re talking about a not insignificant number of people who either enjoy the cult or are too {stupid,uneducated,naïve,gullible,sucked in} to see the leopard that is staring at their face and drooling for a bite.
mihaaly 1y ago
Peeking out of my bubble a bit: Why do we need startups? Why do we need so much that the thought of wrapping the mentality of a whole society around it comes to mind before questioning its legitimacy in a certain context? So serial startup-making can be executed like chain smoking. What are the big benefits that this very form and specific brand of organization type deserves special treatment, other formations or no formations, single persons, departments in a keep-going company, co-ops, semi-chaotic group of enthusiast, or whatever will never ever produce without absorbing proper startup mentality to the core of the society? I am sceptic, yes, not least because I was in a startup of a serial startuper where half of the efforts were spent on being a proper startup. How startupers do, how they act, what they do in what stage, what is the proper procedure for being a startup? There is even television series that was used as reference. Remaining efforts went into other detals, one among those was product development. Asking another startup founder about where he sees the company in 5 years the answer was 'Sold!' without a second of hesitation. I was phrasing wrong, I assumed I was asking about the product roadmap that happened to be made in the formal setting of this organization, but that was not in the focus of the minds apparently. Americans can have an inflated positivistic style pulled on when they want to anyways, to be enthusiastic for the sake of enthusiasm, in selective situations, easily shifted to and away from anything. I wouldn't rely on that too much, but especially wouldn't use as reference for transforming a different society that may be a bit more repelling with the same thing of all things.
- oytis 1y ago
  It's not just about startups, it's about entrepreneurial attitude in general. Europe has great workers, including great engineers, but business culture is lacking. Entrepreneurs we have are mostly "professional entrepreneurs" with no understanding or interest in the "technical details" - and it shows in the results. And eventually it's detrimental to the workers too - there are fewer good places to work, they pay less etc.
  - TheNewsIsHere 1y ago
    The other side to this is that technical people often make for poor business people. These are different skill sets, and developing competency in both generally takes a long time focusing on each. That takes a lot of time and willingness.

by reedf1 1y ago

izacus 1y ago

Why is it "required"? What's so desirable in the american mindset that folks so badly need in EU?

bryanrasmussen 1y ago
the meaning of required in the relevant sentence is not "we are required to do this because it should be done" but rather "if we want that step 2 gets done then step 1 would be required for step 2 to get done."
reedf1 1y ago
Why represent my point like that? "is required to change startup culture in Europe." If you don't want it, don't change.
- K0balt 1y ago
  Poor reading comprehension skills or a bad faith interpretation. Either way, what you wrote was absolutely fine.
greyman 1y ago
Because all that scepticism, non-support etc. are like small micro-defeats that will suck the life energy. Not to mention all those taxes which sucks money energy. :-) But the deeper reason I see in in Europe is that everything is biased towards big and old, and not new and small.
koonsolo 1y ago
US: "You are my friend, so your success means my success" Europe: "You are my friend, so your success makes me look like a failure, and your failure makes me look like a success"

FirmwareBurner 1y ago

>A bottom up cultural shift is required to change startup culture in Europe. History and the study of Volksgeists shows that's almost impossible without any major revolutionary event. The status quo Europeans have had for centuries was their lives being at the mercy of some higher monarchic power, be it emperors, kings, lords, etc, then revolutionary communists, fascists, dictators, etc, and post-WW2 at the mercy of the social welfare state to handle everything for you. There was never a period our relatively recent history where we could just do whatever we wanted, without the ruling powers interfering some way or dictating the rules till the next regime change, and so the Volksgeist inherited and passed on that status quo across generations, kind of like Plato's cave, or like a fish in the water. That's why many Europeans who felt held back or persecuted by the status quo fled to the US decades/centuries ago. This is totally opposite to the American way of life since 1776 where the state was mostly hands-off to leave you alone and would not help you out, nor get in your way, you'd live or die based on your own individual actions. I realize this is different today for Americans, with the government having way more taxes, regulations and social services than in 1776, but the original Volksgeist around minimalist government, individualism, personal freedom and self-responsibility still prevails. So people can say "we need to change" all they want, but the reality is that's never gonna happen, Europeans aren't gonna become Americans and Americans aren't gonna become Europeans, the cultural inertia is too powerful, and you can't fight against the stream.

vb-8448 1y ago
mmm ... your argument doesn't explain why China is more succesfully? They used to have some higher power since forever
- FirmwareBurner 1y ago
  Some European nations were also successful when ruled by higher powers, see the colonial empires of Britain, France, Spain, Portugal, etc. but so many wanna-be world powers occupying a small space led to constant conflicts, limited freedoms, bloody regime changes, and the famous self-immolations of WW1 and WW2 which finally introduced modern democracy to Europe and a end(on paper) to their focus on world domination. My point is, it can be easy to become economically successful like China when you're a large country with massive human capital and don't give a fuck about democracy, slavery, human abuse and welfare, regulations, etc. and prioritize money at all cost. It's how most empires became empires.

api 1y ago

A saying of my own: America is superficially conservative and deeply liberal, while Europe is superficially liberal and deeply conservative. Tangentially, it’s why I don’t think authoritarian reactionary stuff will “take” here for any length of time. The instant Americans figure out it’s anything more than a stylistic performative way to “own” the other side — the instant they are actually told what to do — it is over.

fallingknife 1y ago
This is very true. No real American trusts authority, whether that is the government, or large companies, or other institutions like universities. This is why Uber could get away with breaking the law as long as they were still seen as a small startup.
simonjgreen 1y ago
That’s a clever aphorism, but it’s overly simplistic and misunderstands both contexts. America’s foundational ethos - individualism, market primacy, and suspicion of state power - is deeply libertarian, not liberal in the European sense. Meanwhile, much of Europe has embedded egalitarianism and social solidarity into its institutions - not superficial liberalism, but deeply held post-war consensus. The “deep conservatism” in Europe is often just a reflection of cultural continuity, not ideological rigidity. It’s more accurate to say both continents contain layers of contradiction, but projecting neat labels misses the complexities of their political DNA. As a European that has spent a significant amount of time over the last 5 years in America this has been a cultural learning for me.
- TheNewsIsHere 1y ago
  I would add that the original submission also brushes aside the very real problem that the US has what is effectively a widespread cult of fascists whose leader is the sitting President. We’re talking about a not insignificant number of people who either enjoy the cult or are too {stupid,uneducated,naïve,gullible,sucked in} to see the leopard that is staring at their face and drooling for a bite.

mihaaly 1y ago

Peeking out of my bubble a bit: Why do we need startups? Why do we need so much that the thought of wrapping the mentality of a whole society around it comes to mind before questioning its legitimacy in a certain context? So serial startup-making can be executed like chain smoking. What are the big benefits that this very form and specific brand of organization type deserves special treatment, other formations or no formations, single persons, departments in a keep-going company, co-ops, semi-chaotic group of enthusiast, or whatever will never ever produce without absorbing proper startup mentality to the core of the society? I am sceptic, yes, not least because I was in a startup of a serial startuper where half of the efforts were spent on being a proper startup. How startupers do, how they act, what they do in what stage, what is the proper procedure for being a startup? There is even television series that was used as reference. Remaining efforts went into other detals, one among those was product development. Asking another startup founder about where he sees the company in 5 years the answer was 'Sold!' without a second of hesitation. I was phrasing wrong, I assumed I was asking about the product roadmap that happened to be made in the formal setting of this organization, but that was not in the focus of the minds apparently. Americans can have an inflated positivistic style pulled on when they want to anyways, to be enthusiastic for the sake of enthusiasm, in selective situations, easily shifted to and away from anything. I wouldn't rely on that too much, but especially wouldn't use as reference for transforming a different society that may be a bit more repelling with the same thing of all things.

oytis 1y ago
It's not just about startups, it's about entrepreneurial attitude in general. Europe has great workers, including great engineers, but business culture is lacking. Entrepreneurs we have are mostly "professional entrepreneurs" with no understanding or interest in the "technical details" - and it shows in the results. And eventually it's detrimental to the workers too - there are fewer good places to work, they pay less etc.
- TheNewsIsHere 1y ago
  The other side to this is that technical people often make for poor business people. These are different skill sets, and developing competency in both generally takes a long time focusing on each. That takes a lot of time and willingness.