5 ms·

USPTO refuses Tesla Robotaxi trademark as "merely descriptive"

98 points by LorenDB 1y ago

Fairburn 1y ago
[flagged]
ludamn 1y ago
I wonder why they didn't go with something more original like Aixi, it has some similarity with Taxi which we all already know (just call a Aixi) and the plural is more aligned with their CEO's vision for the future, look at all these new aixis coming to town!
JohnTHaller 1y ago
Especially considering it's been descriptive for decades in science fiction
mchusma 1y ago
That is great. Always nice to see sane IP decisions.
connicpu 1y ago
So they can just call it a "Tesla™ Robotaxi", they already have a trademark. The Robotaxi part does indeed seem merely descriptive.
charlieo88 1y ago
Should have gone with the "Johnny Cab". How did a Schwarzenegger movie from 1990 do a better job of naming a robot taxi than Tesla?
- tempodox 1y ago
  Those were professionals.
- SAI_Peregrinus 1y ago
  The movie was an adaptation of a Phillip K. Dick story, the name comes from the story IIRC.
  - atombender 1y ago
    There is a robot taxi in the story, but it doesn't have a name.
DistractionRect 1y ago
I've always found it odd that the leader for personal "full self driving" cars, is essentially last to the robo taxi market.
- noitpmeder 1y ago
  Because they don't have full self driving cars yet?
  - DistractionRect 1y ago
    Well, I'd understand why it's difficult to extend to nationwide or even statewide just because of all the variations in road/driving conditions. So I can get how FSD never got certified at either scale. However, given their experience and plethora of data collected, I would have expected they'd be among the first get robotaxis in select cities. Idk, just struck me as odd is all. I figured I'd tee off this comment because someone might have an more informed insight into the why of it.
    - shkkmo 1y ago
      Tesla has been working on improving a level 2 system that works everywhere while Waynlmo has been working on expanding the capabilities and coverage of their level 4 system that works in limited areas and requires detailed mapping. Tesla has yet to get good enough to achieve level 4 so they can't actually run a robotaxi yet. Tesla's bet is that if they can reach level 4 with their approach, they'll be able to roll out robotaxis much more widely than Waymo can. So far, the bet has not paid off and Tesla needs it to pay off before Waymo's slower rollout gets too far ahead.
      - robertlagrant 1y ago
        Maybe they need a non-software upgrade that adds a bit more GPU power for robotaxi duties.
  - brandonagr2 1y ago
    What do you call what this tesla is doing? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AQir90MktRc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AQir90MktRc Just because it's supervised doesn't mean its not self driving
drcongo 1y ago
I give a week before the USPTO has been gutted from the inside.
- kevin_thibedeau 1y ago
  Think of all the winning if they just direct examiners to approve every application.
- recursive 1y ago
  If we lose patent trolls at the same time, I'd consider it's a fair trade.
  - bdcrazy 1y ago
    It's first to file now. Imagine front running patents! Or granting every application and preventing the throwing out of bad ones. Bend the knee and pay your tithe or be buried in lawsuits.
    - recursive 1y ago
      That's one way it could go. Another is that no new patents are granted. No lawsuits. Full Shenzhen.
    - tzs 1y ago
      First to file really doesn't change anything relevant here. It just makes it so that if two or more independent inventors invented the same thing and both are applying for a patent the patent goes to whoever filed first instead of trying to figure out who invented it first. Trying to figure out who invented first could be hard because your priority date was not necessarily when you actually thought of the invention. It was the latest date where you started working diligently to reduce your invention to practice and continued so working until you succeeded. So if you came up with the idea and started right away working diligently on it and keep doing so until you succeeded then your priority date would be when you came up with the idea. But if you took breaks you might lose that priority date, and your new priority date would be when you resumed work. So then we have to decide when a break will reset your priority date. Is it just the length? Does the reason for the break matter? And what counts as working diligently? Does it need to be full time or is it OK if you are working on your invention every evening after your job? It was quite messy.
pupppet 1y ago
Oh don't worry he just needs to make a phone call.
lupusreal 1y ago
I'm surprised they want to associate with the word "taxi" in the first place. Doesn't that cut through the hype bullshit supporting their stock price by admitting that they're gunning for the taxi industry, which is fundamentally low margins, geographically limited and overall niche? Even if they capture the entire global taxi market, that couldn't justify their present market cap (which as far as I can tell is supported by delusional investors who think these robotaxis will replace individual car ownership completely in a way that taxis obviously never will.)
- mindslight 1y ago
  The thing about bullshit artists is they can always generate more bullshit. Tesla stock marketing hype is not some fixed quantity that needs to be conserved. Rather, creating more is squarely in Muskov's wheelhouse.
- dhosek 1y ago
  Yeah, one of the problems with eliminating individual car ownership (which I think is a good idea) is the fact that cars are more than point A to point B transportation options. They also serve as temporary storage units (the case that springs to mind is keeping my guitar and amp in the trunk of my car while I’m at work to get to an afterwork rehearsal, but a less niche case is a shopping trip to multiple stores where the goods purchased along the way are kept in the car at each subsequent stop). And then there’s the case of special configurations, e.g., car seats for those with young children, wheelchair access, etc. Even once FSD gets solved (if it ever does), these use cases also need to be accounted for as well.
  - netsharc 1y ago
    > Even once FSD gets solved (if it ever does), these use cases also need to be accounted for as well. But these are such easy issues to solve. Look at a society where public transport use is much much higher: > All major train stations in Japan, and most minor stations, have coin lockers available to use. Coin lockers are a part of daily life in Japan, and they can be found also on bus terminals, shopping centers or department stores, some convenience stores and tourist attractions, and even on city streets. https://japanhorizon.com/train-stations-have-lockers/ https://japanhorizon.com/train-stations-have-lockers/
bilsbie 1y ago
I’m rabidly pro Tesla but this seems fair.
- alangibson 1y ago
  > rabidly pro Tesla Honest question: Why? They seem to be dragging up the rear in everything but unfulfilled promises.
  - tuckerman 1y ago
    They are clearly the front runner in L2+ ADAS (at least outside of China) and are one of the first teams to deploy an e2e model for robotics at scale.
    - orwin 1y ago
      'robotics at scale' what do you mean? Deployment of fully automated factories lanes at scale? Because unless they did that in the early 2010s, they are a bit late, no?
      - tuckerman 1y ago
        Do you have a good example of someone doing that with an e2e model? (not that I think most factory robots should be using e2e models, a more traditional sense-plan-act system usually makes more sense in that domain) We were working on e2e models for manipulation and motion for a long time at Google X and I was at Wayve working on e2e models for driving. From a science perspective, Tesla's FSD is very impressive accomplishment. Edit: Sorry I think I now understand your comment. I mean FSD, not their factory robots. I don't know anything about Tesla's factories.
    - gamblor956 1y ago
      They are clearly the front runner in L2+ ADAS No, not clear at all actually. Every day I see Teslas swerving dangerously while their "drivers" are using their phones instead of driving the car. When I used to commute past the SpaceX HQ in Hawthorne, I'd see at least one Tesla accident a day.
tim333 1y ago
There's a Tesla FSD Community Tracker here: https://teslafsdtracker.com/home https://teslafsdtracker.com/home Currently it's showing one critical disengagement every 206 city miles. Maybe they could call it Tesla Robocrash?
- viewtransform 1y ago
  Or ASD (Assisted Suicide Driving) ?
  - carlmr 1y ago
    Wouldn't it be murder-suicide if you hit other people?
geodel 1y ago
So now this elongated doggy turd will try to shutdown USPTO.
malshe 1y ago
> Then again, perhaps as boss of DOGE, Musk will just use his "special government employee" status to bring the USPTO to heel, purging it of the experts needed to regulate his business, just as he did at NHTSA. I clicked on the link thinking about this issue and found it at the bottom of the article.

98 points by LorenDB 1y ago

[flagged]

I wonder why they didn't go with something more original like Aixi, it has some similarity with Taxi which we all already know (just call a Aixi) and the plural is more aligned with their CEO's vision for the future, look at all these new aixis coming to town!

JohnTHaller 1y ago

Especially considering it's been descriptive for decades in science fiction

mchusma 1y ago

That is great. Always nice to see sane IP decisions.

connicpu 1y ago

So they can just call it a "Tesla™ Robotaxi", they already have a trademark. The Robotaxi part does indeed seem merely descriptive.

charlieo88 1y ago

Should have gone with the "Johnny Cab". How did a Schwarzenegger movie from 1990 do a better job of naming a robot taxi than Tesla?

tempodox 1y ago
Those were professionals.
SAI_Peregrinus 1y ago
The movie was an adaptation of a Phillip K. Dick story, the name comes from the story IIRC.
- atombender 1y ago
  There is a robot taxi in the story, but it doesn't have a name.

DistractionRect 1y ago

I've always found it odd that the leader for personal "full self driving" cars, is essentially last to the robo taxi market.

noitpmeder 1y ago
Because they don't have full self driving cars yet?
- DistractionRect 1y ago
  Well, I'd understand why it's difficult to extend to nationwide or even statewide just because of all the variations in road/driving conditions. So I can get how FSD never got certified at either scale. However, given their experience and plethora of data collected, I would have expected they'd be among the first get robotaxis in select cities. Idk, just struck me as odd is all. I figured I'd tee off this comment because someone might have an more informed insight into the why of it.
  - shkkmo 1y ago
    Tesla has been working on improving a level 2 system that works everywhere while Waynlmo has been working on expanding the capabilities and coverage of their level 4 system that works in limited areas and requires detailed mapping. Tesla has yet to get good enough to achieve level 4 so they can't actually run a robotaxi yet. Tesla's bet is that if they can reach level 4 with their approach, they'll be able to roll out robotaxis much more widely than Waymo can. So far, the bet has not paid off and Tesla needs it to pay off before Waymo's slower rollout gets too far ahead.
    - robertlagrant 1y ago
      Maybe they need a non-software upgrade that adds a bit more GPU power for robotaxi duties.
- brandonagr2 1y ago
  What do you call what this tesla is doing? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AQir90MktRc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AQir90MktRc Just because it's supervised doesn't mean its not self driving

drcongo 1y ago

I give a week before the USPTO has been gutted from the inside.

kevin_thibedeau 1y ago
Think of all the winning if they just direct examiners to approve every application.
recursive 1y ago
If we lose patent trolls at the same time, I'd consider it's a fair trade.
- bdcrazy 1y ago
  It's first to file now. Imagine front running patents! Or granting every application and preventing the throwing out of bad ones. Bend the knee and pay your tithe or be buried in lawsuits.
  - recursive 1y ago
    That's one way it could go. Another is that no new patents are granted. No lawsuits. Full Shenzhen.
  - tzs 1y ago
    First to file really doesn't change anything relevant here. It just makes it so that if two or more independent inventors invented the same thing and both are applying for a patent the patent goes to whoever filed first instead of trying to figure out who invented it first. Trying to figure out who invented first could be hard because your priority date was not necessarily when you actually thought of the invention. It was the latest date where you started working diligently to reduce your invention to practice and continued so working until you succeeded. So if you came up with the idea and started right away working diligently on it and keep doing so until you succeeded then your priority date would be when you came up with the idea. But if you took breaks you might lose that priority date, and your new priority date would be when you resumed work. So then we have to decide when a break will reset your priority date. Is it just the length? Does the reason for the break matter? And what counts as working diligently? Does it need to be full time or is it OK if you are working on your invention every evening after your job? It was quite messy.

pupppet 1y ago

Oh don't worry he just needs to make a phone call.

lupusreal 1y ago

I'm surprised they want to associate with the word "taxi" in the first place. Doesn't that cut through the hype bullshit supporting their stock price by admitting that they're gunning for the taxi industry, which is fundamentally low margins, geographically limited and overall niche? Even if they capture the entire global taxi market, that couldn't justify their present market cap (which as far as I can tell is supported by delusional investors who think these robotaxis will replace individual car ownership completely in a way that taxis obviously never will.)

mindslight 1y ago
The thing about bullshit artists is they can always generate more bullshit. Tesla stock marketing hype is not some fixed quantity that needs to be conserved. Rather, creating more is squarely in Muskov's wheelhouse.
dhosek 1y ago
Yeah, one of the problems with eliminating individual car ownership (which I think is a good idea) is the fact that cars are more than point A to point B transportation options. They also serve as temporary storage units (the case that springs to mind is keeping my guitar and amp in the trunk of my car while I’m at work to get to an afterwork rehearsal, but a less niche case is a shopping trip to multiple stores where the goods purchased along the way are kept in the car at each subsequent stop). And then there’s the case of special configurations, e.g., car seats for those with young children, wheelchair access, etc. Even once FSD gets solved (if it ever does), these use cases also need to be accounted for as well.
- netsharc 1y ago
  > Even once FSD gets solved (if it ever does), these use cases also need to be accounted for as well. But these are such easy issues to solve. Look at a society where public transport use is much much higher: > All major train stations in Japan, and most minor stations, have coin lockers available to use. Coin lockers are a part of daily life in Japan, and they can be found also on bus terminals, shopping centers or department stores, some convenience stores and tourist attractions, and even on city streets. https://japanhorizon.com/train-stations-have-lockers/ https://japanhorizon.com/train-stations-have-lockers/

bilsbie 1y ago

I’m rabidly pro Tesla but this seems fair.

alangibson 1y ago
> rabidly pro Tesla Honest question: Why? They seem to be dragging up the rear in everything but unfulfilled promises.
- tuckerman 1y ago
  They are clearly the front runner in L2+ ADAS (at least outside of China) and are one of the first teams to deploy an e2e model for robotics at scale.
  - orwin 1y ago
    'robotics at scale' what do you mean? Deployment of fully automated factories lanes at scale? Because unless they did that in the early 2010s, they are a bit late, no?
    - tuckerman 1y ago
      Do you have a good example of someone doing that with an e2e model? (not that I think most factory robots should be using e2e models, a more traditional sense-plan-act system usually makes more sense in that domain) We were working on e2e models for manipulation and motion for a long time at Google X and I was at Wayve working on e2e models for driving. From a science perspective, Tesla's FSD is very impressive accomplishment. Edit: Sorry I think I now understand your comment. I mean FSD, not their factory robots. I don't know anything about Tesla's factories.
  - gamblor956 1y ago
    They are clearly the front runner in L2+ ADAS No, not clear at all actually. Every day I see Teslas swerving dangerously while their "drivers" are using their phones instead of driving the car. When I used to commute past the SpaceX HQ in Hawthorne, I'd see at least one Tesla accident a day.

tim333 1y ago

There's a Tesla FSD Community Tracker here: https://teslafsdtracker.com/home https://teslafsdtracker.com/home Currently it's showing one critical disengagement every 206 city miles. Maybe they could call it Tesla Robocrash?

viewtransform 1y ago
Or ASD (Assisted Suicide Driving) ?
- carlmr 1y ago
  Wouldn't it be murder-suicide if you hit other people?

geodel 1y ago

So now this elongated doggy turd will try to shutdown USPTO.

malshe 1y ago

> Then again, perhaps as boss of DOGE, Musk will just use his "special government employee" status to bring the USPTO to heel, purging it of the experts needed to regulate his business, just as he did at NHTSA. I clicked on the link thinking about this issue and found it at the bottom of the article.