7 ms·

Bethesda Thinks Fan Remaster of Oblivion Is 'Very Special' and Supports It

101 points by hn_acker 2y ago

tmpz22 2y ago
Bethesda knows support for the official remake would go down the toilet if they did anything but praise for the unofficial remake. Its hard to take Bethesda on good faith on this.
- Kenji 2y ago
  [dead]
- Wobbles42 2y ago
  I am inclined to give them the benefit of the doubt. They may or may not be doing the right thing for the wrong reasons, but at least they ARE doing the right thing. That decision was made by a set of humans, and likely at least some of them are well meaning. In any case the corporate entity as a whole is not conscious. A strictly behavioralist approach is appropriate there. If it does the good thing it gets the carrot, if it does the bad thing it gets the stick. We can't win it's heart and mind because it has neither, so we have to settle for keeping it's behavior in line.
  - voidfunc 2y ago
    It's a lesson more companies should learn (looking at you Nintendo), the revenue hit from a fan-made IP clone is likely negligible. People want the official stuff usually as well. The PR hit from attacking creator fans is way worse.
  - chii 1y ago
    while i do give them benefit of the doubt, the support for the skybilvion fan remake is in effect a way to sell and market an old game (skyrim's sale has been on the decline but for these fan projects). The moment such a project might affect sales in some way (that i am unable to imagine right now, but is possible surely), they will backpedal and find ways to take it down.
- happytoexplain 2y ago
  I know businesses often bring it upon themselves, but this "fucked if they do, fucked if they don't" attitude needs to be carefully applied. It leaves no room for anything, really, and it's exhausting.
  - washadjeffmad 2y ago
    It's not unwarranted. With the recent popularity of remakes and rereleases, there's been tension between fans, their multi-year/decade labor of love projects, and the studios hoping to remonetize dated franchises. A friend and old-school RuneScape player told me he was quitting over this: https://www.ibtimes.com/runescape-devs-backtrack-hd-mod-ban-after-community-backlash-3291729 https://www.ibtimes.com/runescape-devs-backtrack-hd-mod-ban-... Bethesda signaling their blessing might not have happened if others hadn't made such spectacular messes of their own relaunches.
- crop_rotation 2y ago
  Yes nobody is doing good deeds to stab themselves. Not sure what your point is here?
formerly_proven 2y ago
Regardless, the remaster appears to have been rushed out due to increasing leaks, no? It's hard to believe that with the technical issues the release was actually intended to land in April 2025, instead of fixing issues until March 2026 and releasing it as an anniversary remaster.
- no_wizard 2y ago
  Bethesda is notorious for buggy software releases. They could spend 10 years on something and it would likely have tons of bugs still.
  - thatguy0900 2y ago
    This one does feel extra infuriating though, since it still has bugs that were fixed by fan made bug fixing mods from the original game. It doesn't really even feel like they try to fix bugs
    - chme 2y ago
      This is also not surprising for BGS as was demonstrated with the multiple Skyrim re-releases, which didn't fix all issues patched by the unofficial patches, and even introduced more. See the change log here: https://www.afkmods.com/Unofficial%20Skyrim%20Special%20Edition%20Patch%20Version%20History.html https://www.afkmods.com/Unofficial%20Skyrim%20Special%20Edit... Only a very small amount of the issues fixed there where integrated into the official patch releases.
    - lelandfe 2y ago
      Keeping the VO flubs in is so good though, especially now with the automatic lip syncing https://youtu.be/AWgPq6ocd5c https://youtu.be/AWgPq6ocd5c
  - tjpnz 2y ago
    Bethesda farmed the remaster out to another studio and the issues are mostly performance related. They chose to utilize Unreal Engine 5 for the graphics[0] which means you get all the stuttering and uneven frame times present in most games using it. 0: I recall reading somewhere that the game uses a really old version of Bethesda's proprietary engine too - but only for physics.
jemmyw 2y ago
Bethesda doesn't think anything. Some people in leadership there think this. It would be very nice if they codeified what "support" means and the circumstances around it into company policy so that fans know what is what while that policy is in place (and who to blame if the policy is abandoned).
- PoignardAzur 2y ago
  I mean, when you reach the point where they advertise the mod in dev spotlights videos, I think it's fair to say there's some institutional support, even if it's not codified.
  - viraptor 1y ago
    Sure, but that means in a few years another manager can remove it and sue the creators. It doesn't matter who the current guy approves of, long term.
- Lammy 2y ago
  > Bethesda doesn't think anything. It even kind of irks me when people talk about “Bethesda” when it's really “Microsoft Corporation presents Microsoft Gaming presents Zenimax Media presents Bethesda Softworks presents Bethesda Game Studios”. Not picking on you in particular since the same thing happens with iD Software, Github, NPM, and many many more. I feel like there's a collective lack of straightforward language to discuss the influence of this kind of corporate structure. Falling back to the singular-subsidiary name with the rest unspoken is probably exactly what they want.
  - jemmyw 2y ago
    I wouldn't know who Bethesda was owned by without going and looking it up. I personally don't think this kind of corporate structure should be allowed, too much controlled by too few.
    - sushid 2y ago
neuroelectron 2y ago
This is a bit different situation than Nintendo and it's not fair to compare the two. The mod requires the base game where Nintendo software is hardware coupled. Furthermore, Bethesda has monetized mods directly (the Creation Club).
- jimbob45 2y ago
  Let’s call a spade a spade. Nintendo litigates worse than any other company and they never drop prices. I can look the other way because they’re otherwise very good to their customers but they do have genuine faults.
  - nothercastle 2y ago
    And they are really letting their franchises go stale recently. Pokémon is especially bad.
    - crop_rotation 2y ago
      They do make amazing games though, for all the ones that they make. BOTW and TOTK are just so so special games to me (and I hope many others), and I have learnt by experience that almost no Nintendo game gets released half baked or lacking their best efforts.
    - jimbob45 2y ago
      In fairness, Pokémon is perhaps the worst case in game design difficulty. You have an audience insisting on 3D characters and animations for 400+ (or however many now) Pokémon, each necessitating ~6 animations for unique attacks, 5+ status effects, idling/reaction animations, and ideally some trainer interaction. I understand why Nintendo has tried to use a lo-fi artstyle, make games with only subsets of the total bestiary, and generally limit development. Hell, I even understand why Palworld gave up on unique attack animations and just went with guns.
      - comex 2y ago
        1000+, though the last two generations have included only a subset.
mschuster91 1y ago
Better than Rockstar, eh? Like, these fools had had people remaster their engine and assets for all the GTA games for decades, and instead of leveraging that they go, get a ton of mods taken down and then release a "remaster" done with barely-supervised AI slop.
Manfred 1y ago
People in the comments act like they have been to a family party and are now nitpicking every detail of the party, speculating that granddad might not let uncle celebrate their birthday next year, exclaiming that auntie had much better cake, and discussing the clip their niece posted to Facebook of the dirty basement. It's fine to be skeptical about the intentions of big family, but it's also fine to enjoy the cake once in a while.
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
eGP9jDq_nw 1y ago
https://archive.ph/swWEA https://archive.ph/swWEA
wduquette 1y ago
I'm having a lot more fun with the Oblivion remaster than I did with the original game (which I first played years after Skyrim came out). But I will say, while the graphics are better than the original Oblivion, Unreal 5 is NOT an improvement over the engine they used for Skyrim, not from a visual point of view, at least not for me. Quite frankly, I'd much rather have Skyrim-era graphics, which are plenty good enough, and Skyrim's quick startup times, than have to wait for shaders to load as you do with lots of recent games.
- genewitch 1y ago
  The shaders do their thing the first time you launch oblivion, and then not again. Stalker had an issue where it would recompile the shaders of you changed a setting, not sure if they fixed that. Skyrim does load fast, though, even on switch. Which wouldn't need to compile shaders anyhow.
  - wduquette 1y ago
    Yeah, shaders aren't the problem with Oblivion; the problem with Oblivion is that when you move to a new scene everything looks like it's made of enormous triangular things until the rendering catches up, which on my machine can take five seconds or so. If this is typical for Unreal 5 it's what I'd call a deprovement (rather than an improvement).
    - genewitch 1y ago
      I get something similar to the artifacts you mention; i think the fix is to delay actually drawing the world until it's truly finished loading, but i'm no AAA game company. Either way, something about the remaster makes me fatigued playing it. I might try turning off all AI and motion blur and go for higher FPS and see if that helps. It isn't the only game that does this to me, but i find with games from the 8 and 16 bit era (as a comparison), they load so fast and close so fast that the second tedium sets in at all i can just quit; the newer games there's already a time investment just to get to "in control of a character", at least for me, on PC.

101 points by hn_acker 2y ago

Bethesda knows support for the official remake would go down the toilet if they did anything but praise for the unofficial remake. Its hard to take Bethesda on good faith on this.

Kenji 2y ago
[dead]
Wobbles42 2y ago
I am inclined to give them the benefit of the doubt. They may or may not be doing the right thing for the wrong reasons, but at least they ARE doing the right thing. That decision was made by a set of humans, and likely at least some of them are well meaning. In any case the corporate entity as a whole is not conscious. A strictly behavioralist approach is appropriate there. If it does the good thing it gets the carrot, if it does the bad thing it gets the stick. We can't win it's heart and mind because it has neither, so we have to settle for keeping it's behavior in line.
- voidfunc 2y ago
  It's a lesson more companies should learn (looking at you Nintendo), the revenue hit from a fan-made IP clone is likely negligible. People want the official stuff usually as well. The PR hit from attacking creator fans is way worse.
- chii 1y ago
  while i do give them benefit of the doubt, the support for the skybilvion fan remake is in effect a way to sell and market an old game (skyrim's sale has been on the decline but for these fan projects). The moment such a project might affect sales in some way (that i am unable to imagine right now, but is possible surely), they will backpedal and find ways to take it down.
happytoexplain 2y ago
I know businesses often bring it upon themselves, but this "fucked if they do, fucked if they don't" attitude needs to be carefully applied. It leaves no room for anything, really, and it's exhausting.
- washadjeffmad 2y ago
  It's not unwarranted. With the recent popularity of remakes and rereleases, there's been tension between fans, their multi-year/decade labor of love projects, and the studios hoping to remonetize dated franchises. A friend and old-school RuneScape player told me he was quitting over this: https://www.ibtimes.com/runescape-devs-backtrack-hd-mod-ban-after-community-backlash-3291729 https://www.ibtimes.com/runescape-devs-backtrack-hd-mod-ban-... Bethesda signaling their blessing might not have happened if others hadn't made such spectacular messes of their own relaunches.
crop_rotation 2y ago
Yes nobody is doing good deeds to stab themselves. Not sure what your point is here?

formerly_proven 2y ago

Regardless, the remaster appears to have been rushed out due to increasing leaks, no? It's hard to believe that with the technical issues the release was actually intended to land in April 2025, instead of fixing issues until March 2026 and releasing it as an anniversary remaster.

no_wizard 2y ago
Bethesda is notorious for buggy software releases. They could spend 10 years on something and it would likely have tons of bugs still.
- thatguy0900 2y ago
  This one does feel extra infuriating though, since it still has bugs that were fixed by fan made bug fixing mods from the original game. It doesn't really even feel like they try to fix bugs
  - chme 2y ago
    This is also not surprising for BGS as was demonstrated with the multiple Skyrim re-releases, which didn't fix all issues patched by the unofficial patches, and even introduced more. See the change log here: https://www.afkmods.com/Unofficial%20Skyrim%20Special%20Edition%20Patch%20Version%20History.html https://www.afkmods.com/Unofficial%20Skyrim%20Special%20Edit... Only a very small amount of the issues fixed there where integrated into the official patch releases.
  - lelandfe 2y ago
    Keeping the VO flubs in is so good though, especially now with the automatic lip syncing https://youtu.be/AWgPq6ocd5c https://youtu.be/AWgPq6ocd5c
- tjpnz 2y ago
  Bethesda farmed the remaster out to another studio and the issues are mostly performance related. They chose to utilize Unreal Engine 5 for the graphics[0] which means you get all the stuttering and uneven frame times present in most games using it. 0: I recall reading somewhere that the game uses a really old version of Bethesda's proprietary engine too - but only for physics.

jemmyw 2y ago

Bethesda doesn't think anything. Some people in leadership there think this. It would be very nice if they codeified what "support" means and the circumstances around it into company policy so that fans know what is what while that policy is in place (and who to blame if the policy is abandoned).

PoignardAzur 2y ago
I mean, when you reach the point where they advertise the mod in dev spotlights videos, I think it's fair to say there's some institutional support, even if it's not codified.
- viraptor 1y ago
  Sure, but that means in a few years another manager can remove it and sue the creators. It doesn't matter who the current guy approves of, long term.
Lammy 2y ago
> Bethesda doesn't think anything. It even kind of irks me when people talk about “Bethesda” when it's really “Microsoft Corporation presents Microsoft Gaming presents Zenimax Media presents Bethesda Softworks presents Bethesda Game Studios”. Not picking on you in particular since the same thing happens with iD Software, Github, NPM, and many many more. I feel like there's a collective lack of straightforward language to discuss the influence of this kind of corporate structure. Falling back to the singular-subsidiary name with the rest unspoken is probably exactly what they want.
- jemmyw 2y ago
  I wouldn't know who Bethesda was owned by without going and looking it up. I personally don't think this kind of corporate structure should be allowed, too much controlled by too few.
  - sushid 2y ago

neuroelectron 2y ago

This is a bit different situation than Nintendo and it's not fair to compare the two. The mod requires the base game where Nintendo software is hardware coupled. Furthermore, Bethesda has monetized mods directly (the Creation Club).

jimbob45 2y ago
Let’s call a spade a spade. Nintendo litigates worse than any other company and they never drop prices. I can look the other way because they’re otherwise very good to their customers but they do have genuine faults.
- nothercastle 2y ago
  And they are really letting their franchises go stale recently. Pokémon is especially bad.
  - crop_rotation 2y ago
    They do make amazing games though, for all the ones that they make. BOTW and TOTK are just so so special games to me (and I hope many others), and I have learnt by experience that almost no Nintendo game gets released half baked or lacking their best efforts.
  - jimbob45 2y ago
    In fairness, Pokémon is perhaps the worst case in game design difficulty. You have an audience insisting on 3D characters and animations for 400+ (or however many now) Pokémon, each necessitating ~6 animations for unique attacks, 5+ status effects, idling/reaction animations, and ideally some trainer interaction. I understand why Nintendo has tried to use a lo-fi artstyle, make games with only subsets of the total bestiary, and generally limit development. Hell, I even understand why Palworld gave up on unique attack animations and just went with guns.
    - comex 2y ago
      1000+, though the last two generations have included only a subset.

mschuster91 1y ago

Better than Rockstar, eh? Like, these fools had had people remaster their engine and assets for all the GTA games for decades, and instead of leveraging that they go, get a ton of mods taken down and then release a "remaster" done with barely-supervised AI slop.

Manfred 1y ago

People in the comments act like they have been to a family party and are now nitpicking every detail of the party, speculating that granddad might not let uncle celebrate their birthday next year, exclaiming that auntie had much better cake, and discussing the clip their niece posted to Facebook of the dirty basement. It's fine to be skeptical about the intentions of big family, but it's also fine to enjoy the cake once in a while.

deleted 1y ago
[deleted]

eGP9jDq_nw 1y ago

https://archive.ph/swWEA https://archive.ph/swWEA

wduquette 1y ago

I'm having a lot more fun with the Oblivion remaster than I did with the original game (which I first played years after Skyrim came out). But I will say, while the graphics are better than the original Oblivion, Unreal 5 is NOT an improvement over the engine they used for Skyrim, not from a visual point of view, at least not for me. Quite frankly, I'd much rather have Skyrim-era graphics, which are plenty good enough, and Skyrim's quick startup times, than have to wait for shaders to load as you do with lots of recent games.

genewitch 1y ago
The shaders do their thing the first time you launch oblivion, and then not again. Stalker had an issue where it would recompile the shaders of you changed a setting, not sure if they fixed that. Skyrim does load fast, though, even on switch. Which wouldn't need to compile shaders anyhow.
- wduquette 1y ago
  Yeah, shaders aren't the problem with Oblivion; the problem with Oblivion is that when you move to a new scene everything looks like it's made of enormous triangular things until the rendering catches up, which on my machine can take five seconds or so. If this is typical for Unreal 5 it's what I'd call a deprovement (rather than an improvement).
  - genewitch 1y ago
    I get something similar to the artifacts you mention; i think the fix is to delay actually drawing the world until it's truly finished loading, but i'm no AAA game company. Either way, something about the remaster makes me fatigued playing it. I might try turning off all AI and motion blur and go for higher FPS and see if that helps. It isn't the only game that does this to me, but i find with games from the 8 and 16 bit era (as a comparison), they load so fast and close so fast that the second tedium sets in at all i can just quit; the newer games there's already a time investment just to get to "in control of a character", at least for me, on PC.