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It's not limited to Soviet missions. My high school physics teacher worked at JPL on the Mars Climate Orbiter in the 90s. His entire NASA career was in developm

by dluan 1y ago

It's not limited to Soviet missions. My high school physics teacher worked at JPL on the Mars Climate Orbiter in the 90s. His entire NASA career was in development of it, and after 10 months of travel following successful launch, the thing exploded in the atmosphere without ever reaching the surface because the team at JPL used metric while Lockheed Martin used imperial. He was so spiritually broken by the experience that he quit and became a high school physics teacher. Great teacher, but to have your life's work go up in smoke like that is brutal.

cbanek 1y ago
And the classic accelerometer installed backward which doomed the Genesis mission sample return, although some bits were successfully recovered, the parachute never deployed.
- dudeinjapan 1y ago
  Elsewhere in this thread someone was asking about the difference between acceleration and deceleration. Well, this is a good example!
  - cbanek 1y ago
    The difference is just a minus sign!
wileydragonfly 1y ago
Should have gone with the “martians shot it down” explanation which was far cooler and less embarrassing
- robertlagrant 1y ago
  I think turning the whole earth into a total war economy is worth avoiding the engineering embarrassment!
dekhn 1y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mars_Climate_Orbiter#Cause_of_failure https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mars_Climate_Orbiter#Cause_of_...
- userbinator 1y ago
  Still, NASA does not place the responsibility on Lockheed for the mission loss; instead, various officials at NASA have stated that NASA itself was at fault for failing to make the appropriate checks and tests that would have caught the discrepancy. The discrepancy between calculated and measured position, resulting in the discrepancy between desired and actual orbit insertion altitude, had been noticed earlier by at least two navigators, whose concerns were dismissed because they "did not follow the rules about filling out [the] form to document their concerns" Typical bureaucratic BS. Not surprised; what's surprising is that anything works in that sort of environment.
  - pkaye 1y ago
    This was during the "Faster, Better, Cheaper" era when staffing was cut and projects were being privatized and had to be done for cut rate costs. This video actually goes a lot into the details on what happened. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kuYDkVRyMkg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kuYDkVRyMkg The whole videos series of JPL and the Space Age is very enjoyable to watch. https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLTiv_XWHnOZqFnWQs393RhIMQoeCnwjhV https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLTiv_XWHnOZqFnWQs393R...
    - bad_username 1y ago
      Exceptional documentary. Thanks for posting.
  - hsbauauvhabzb 1y ago
    If you take a step back the bureaucratic bs is actually that certain countries did and continue to use imperial measurements and nonsensical date formats.
  - anthk 1y ago
VectorLock 1y ago
The ultimate "fuck this shit- I'm out."
SoftTalker 1y ago
Teaching high school physics will do more good for more people than landing a spacecraft on Mars.
- taskforcegemini 1y ago
  that's debatable
  - ivell 1y ago
    I think the implication is that a good teacher can inspire more students to take up science and contribute broadly to the field than just one person on a specific field.
    - SoftTalker 1y ago
      Pretty much. Having a working understanding of Newtonian physics, electricity, and other High School physics topics has real-world benefits. Landing a spacecraft on Mars is a remarkable technical achievement, but makes almost no difference in the life of 99.999% of people. Either could inspire someone to pursue a career in science, I was more thinking of just practical benefits.
    - Jensson 1y ago
      One brilliant scientist can inspire millions of children, that is much more than a teacher.
- sgt 1y ago
  What reality are you living in? Zero ambition?
- dudeinjapan 1y ago
  My highschool physics teacher had a similar story, he was one of best teachers I ever had. I went from disliking physics to becoming a EE major in college. Doubt I would be where I am today without him coming in at the right moment in my life. So, yes, a good teacher could inspire 10+ others to make spacecraft, tech startups, etc. Maybe the ROI for humanity is greater if that teacher stayed as an IC in their field.
hilbert42 1y ago
"…the thing exploded in the atmosphere without ever reaching the surface because the team at JPL used metric while Lockheed Martin used imperial." I've just read the Wiki on the Mars Climate Orbiter and it explains the disastrous implications of that mistake. What's tragic about such errors is that the US keeps repeating them, Hubble was another very expensive Imperial/Metric fuck-up even though it was recoverable. I've often had debates with Americans about Imperial versus Metric when I was in the US and their retort is usually along the lines "why should we give up God's own units for that nasty French stuff?" or words to that effect. They gave other specious arguments too, such as cost of new tooling would be prohibitive. That's rubbish† of course (certainly in the grand schema of things as the long-term benefits far outweigh initial costs). Well, anyway, by the looks of it God is on the side of the French! What many of us outside the US find odd and can't figure out is that in its early days the American Republic was hand-in-glove with the French against that horrible Imperial island, so why did it reject the French system? Yes, I know of the early attempt at metricization and the loss of weights and measures at sea whilst in transit from France to the US but given its impact that's pretty paltry excuse. It really is time you guys caught up with the rest of the world. Surely, it's getting a bit too expensive to continue to lose spacecraft to whims of measurement. __ † Check how well Australia's metric conversion went some 50 years ago. It's a textbook example of how to go about it correctly. I know, I live there—we fuck things up more often than not but this one we got AOK right. If you ask kids at school today what various Imperial units are they'd likely say they've never heard of them.
- blincoln 1y ago
  I'm American, and I fully support moving to the metric system. But it's a tough sell for most people. If someone is an adult, it's a bunch of new information to learn, and unless they work in a field that involves measurements and math, it probably won't be an obvious net positive for them. The biggest benefit IMO is for future generations, who wouldn't grow up having to memorize conversion factors for a bunch of ancient legacy units (feet per mile, teaspoons per cup, etc.) as well as having to do the conversions when working with people from outside the US. I'd greatly appreciate it as someone who does a lot of hobby work in various fields, because metric measurements are something I can use across all of them. But the impression I've gotten is that professionals in a single field are so used to working with whichever specific imperial units are relevant to them that it would be a wash. And since they'd have to redevelop all of that intuitive knowledge for the metric equivalent, they see it as a net negative.
matheusmoreira 1y ago
> He was so spiritually broken by the experience that he quit and became a high school physics teacher. > Great teacher, but to have your life's work go up in smoke like that is brutal. No doubt. I hope everyone's doing alright.

by dluan 1y ago

cbanek 1y ago

And the classic accelerometer installed backward which doomed the Genesis mission sample return, although some bits were successfully recovered, the parachute never deployed.

dudeinjapan 1y ago
Elsewhere in this thread someone was asking about the difference between acceleration and deceleration. Well, this is a good example!
- cbanek 1y ago
  The difference is just a minus sign!

wileydragonfly 1y ago

Should have gone with the “martians shot it down” explanation which was far cooler and less embarrassing

robertlagrant 1y ago
I think turning the whole earth into a total war economy is worth avoiding the engineering embarrassment!

dekhn 1y ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mars_Climate_Orbiter#Cause_of_failure https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mars_Climate_Orbiter#Cause_of_...

userbinator 1y ago
Still, NASA does not place the responsibility on Lockheed for the mission loss; instead, various officials at NASA have stated that NASA itself was at fault for failing to make the appropriate checks and tests that would have caught the discrepancy. The discrepancy between calculated and measured position, resulting in the discrepancy between desired and actual orbit insertion altitude, had been noticed earlier by at least two navigators, whose concerns were dismissed because they "did not follow the rules about filling out [the] form to document their concerns" Typical bureaucratic BS. Not surprised; what's surprising is that anything works in that sort of environment.
- pkaye 1y ago
  This was during the "Faster, Better, Cheaper" era when staffing was cut and projects were being privatized and had to be done for cut rate costs. This video actually goes a lot into the details on what happened. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kuYDkVRyMkg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kuYDkVRyMkg The whole videos series of JPL and the Space Age is very enjoyable to watch. https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLTiv_XWHnOZqFnWQs393RhIMQoeCnwjhV https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLTiv_XWHnOZqFnWQs393R...
  - bad_username 1y ago
    Exceptional documentary. Thanks for posting.
- hsbauauvhabzb 1y ago
  If you take a step back the bureaucratic bs is actually that certain countries did and continue to use imperial measurements and nonsensical date formats.
- anthk 1y ago

VectorLock 1y ago

The ultimate "fuck this shit- I'm out."

SoftTalker 1y ago

Teaching high school physics will do more good for more people than landing a spacecraft on Mars.

taskforcegemini 1y ago
that's debatable
- ivell 1y ago
  I think the implication is that a good teacher can inspire more students to take up science and contribute broadly to the field than just one person on a specific field.
  - SoftTalker 1y ago
    Pretty much. Having a working understanding of Newtonian physics, electricity, and other High School physics topics has real-world benefits. Landing a spacecraft on Mars is a remarkable technical achievement, but makes almost no difference in the life of 99.999% of people. Either could inspire someone to pursue a career in science, I was more thinking of just practical benefits.
  - Jensson 1y ago
    One brilliant scientist can inspire millions of children, that is much more than a teacher.
sgt 1y ago
What reality are you living in? Zero ambition?
dudeinjapan 1y ago
My highschool physics teacher had a similar story, he was one of best teachers I ever had. I went from disliking physics to becoming a EE major in college. Doubt I would be where I am today without him coming in at the right moment in my life. So, yes, a good teacher could inspire 10+ others to make spacecraft, tech startups, etc. Maybe the ROI for humanity is greater if that teacher stayed as an IC in their field.

hilbert42 1y ago

"…the thing exploded in the atmosphere without ever reaching the surface because the team at JPL used metric while Lockheed Martin used imperial." I've just read the Wiki on the Mars Climate Orbiter and it explains the disastrous implications of that mistake. What's tragic about such errors is that the US keeps repeating them, Hubble was another very expensive Imperial/Metric fuck-up even though it was recoverable. I've often had debates with Americans about Imperial versus Metric when I was in the US and their retort is usually along the lines "why should we give up God's own units for that nasty French stuff?" or words to that effect. They gave other specious arguments too, such as cost of new tooling would be prohibitive. That's rubbish† of course (certainly in the grand schema of things as the long-term benefits far outweigh initial costs). Well, anyway, by the looks of it God is on the side of the French! What many of us outside the US find odd and can't figure out is that in its early days the American Republic was hand-in-glove with the French against that horrible Imperial island, so why did it reject the French system? Yes, I know of the early attempt at metricization and the loss of weights and measures at sea whilst in transit from France to the US but given its impact that's pretty paltry excuse. It really is time you guys caught up with the rest of the world. Surely, it's getting a bit too expensive to continue to lose spacecraft to whims of measurement. __ † Check how well Australia's metric conversion went some 50 years ago. It's a textbook example of how to go about it correctly. I know, I live there—we fuck things up more often than not but this one we got AOK right. If you ask kids at school today what various Imperial units are they'd likely say they've never heard of them.

blincoln 1y ago
I'm American, and I fully support moving to the metric system. But it's a tough sell for most people. If someone is an adult, it's a bunch of new information to learn, and unless they work in a field that involves measurements and math, it probably won't be an obvious net positive for them. The biggest benefit IMO is for future generations, who wouldn't grow up having to memorize conversion factors for a bunch of ancient legacy units (feet per mile, teaspoons per cup, etc.) as well as having to do the conversions when working with people from outside the US. I'd greatly appreciate it as someone who does a lot of hobby work in various fields, because metric measurements are something I can use across all of them. But the impression I've gotten is that professionals in a single field are so used to working with whichever specific imperial units are relevant to them that it would be a wash. And since they'd have to redevelop all of that intuitive knowledge for the metric equivalent, they see it as a net negative.

matheusmoreira 1y ago

> He was so spiritually broken by the experience that he quit and became a high school physics teacher. > Great teacher, but to have your life's work go up in smoke like that is brutal. No doubt. I hope everyone's doing alright.