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When this was up yesterday I complained that the refusal rate was super high especially on government and military shaped tasks, and that this would only push c

When this was up yesterday I complained that the refusal rate was super high especially on government and military shaped tasks, and that this would only push contractors to use CN-developed open source models for work that could then be compromised. Today I'm discovering there is a tier of API access with virtually no content moderation available to companies working in that space. I have no idea how to go about requesting that tier of access, but have spoken to 4 different defense contractors in the last day who seem to already be using it.

refulgentis 1y ago
It's "tier 5", I've had an account since the 3.0 days so I can't be positive I'm not grandfathered in, but, my understanding is as long as you have a non-trivial amount of spend for a few months you'll have that access. (fwiw for anyone curious how to implement it, it's the 'moderation' parameter in the JSON request you'll send, I missed it for a few hours because it wasn't in Dalle-3)
- dunkmaster 1y ago
  API shows either auto or low available. Is there another secret value with even lower restrictions?
  - refulgentis 1y ago
    Not that I know of. I just took any indication that the parent post meant absolute zero moderation as them being a bit loose with their words and excitable with how they understand things, there were some signs: 1. it's unlikely they completed an API integration quickly enough to have an opinion on military / defense image generation moderation yesterday, so they're almost certainly speaking about ChatGPT. (this is additionally confirmed by image generation requiring tier 5 anyway, which they would have been aware of if they had integrated) 2. The military / defense use cases for image generation are not provided (and the steelman'd version in other comments is nonsensical, i.e. we can quickly validate you can still generate kanban boards or wireframes of ships) 3. The poster passively disclaims being in military / defense themself (grep "in that space") 4. it is hard to envision cases of #2 that do not require universal moderation for OpenAI's sake, i.e. lets say their thought process is along the lines of: defense/military ~= what I think of as CIA ~= black ops ~= image manipulation on social media, thus, the time I said "please edit this photo of the ayatollah to have him eating pig and say I hate allah" means its overmoderated for defense use cases 5. It's unlikely openai wants to be anywhere near PR resulting from #4. Assuming there is a super secret defense tier that allows this, it's at the very least, unlikely that the poster's defense contractor friends were blabbing about about the exclusive completely unmoderated access they had, to the poster, within hours of release. They're pretty serious about that secrecy stuff! 6. It is unlikely the lack of ability to generate images using GPT Image 1 would drive the military to Chinese models (there aren't Chinese LLMs that do this! even if they were, there's plenty of good ol' American diffusion models!)
    - Wowfunhappy 1y ago
      I'm Tier 4 and I'm able to use this API and set moderation to "low". Tier 4 only requires a 30 day waiting period and $1,000 spent on credits. While I as an individual was a bit horrified to learn I've actually spent that much on OpenAI credits over the life of my account, it's practically nothing for most organizations. Even Tier 5 only requires $5,000. OP was clearly implying there is some greater ability only granted to extra special organizations like the military. With all possible respect to OP, I find this all very hard to believe without additional evidence. If nothing else, I don't really see a military application of this API (specifically, not AI in general). I'm sure it would help them create slide decks and such, but you don't need extra special zero moderation for that.
      - throwup238 1y ago
        > With all possible respect to OP, I find this all very hard to believe without additional evidence. If nothing else, I don't really see a military application of this API (specifically, not AI in general). I'm sure it would help them create slide decks and such, but you don't need extra special zero moderation for that. I can't provide additional evidence (it's defense, duh), but the #1 use I've seen is generating images for computer vision training mostly to feed GOFAI algorithms that have already been validated for target acquisition. Image gen algorithms have a pretty good idea of what a T72 tank and different camouflage looks like, and they're much better at generating unique photos combining the two. It's actually a great use of the technology because hallucinations help improve the training data (i.e. the final targetting should be invariant to a T72 tank with a machine gun on the wrong side or with too many turrets, etc.) That said, due to compartmentalization, I don't know the extent to which image gen is used in defense, just my little sliver of it.
        cuuupid 1y ago
        We can talk about it here, they put out SBIRs for satellite imagery labeling and test set evaluation that provide a good amount of detail into how they're using it.
      - bayesianbot 1y ago
samtp 1y ago
What's a good use case for a defense contractor to generate AI images besides to include in presentations?
- aigen000 1y ago
  Fabricating evidence of weapons of mass destruction in some developing nation. I kid, more real world use cases would be for concept images for a new product or marketing campaigns.
  - toasteros 1y ago
    ...you can do that with a pencil, though. What an impossibly weird thing to "need" an LLM for.
    - Gud 1y ago
      I suppose you walk by foot everywhere?
      - toasteros 1y ago
        Sometimes. My feet don't have a random chance to send me in a random direction to that which I intend.
        olyjohn 1y ago
        This is why I don't ride horses.
    - KeplerBoy 1y ago
      You can also create images by poking bits in a hex editor. Some tools are better suited than others.
- ZeroTalent 1y ago
  Manufacturing consent
throwaway314155 1y ago
> 4 different defense contractors in the last day Now I'm just wondering what the hell defense contractors need image generation for that isn't obviously horrifying...
- morleytj 1y ago
  It's probably horrifying!
- Aeolun 1y ago
  “Generate me a crowd of civilians with one terrorist in.” “Please move them to some desert, not the empire state building.” “The civilians are supposed to have turbans, not ballcaps.”
  - ziml77 1y ago
    That's very outdated, they're absolutely supposed to be at the Empire State Building with baseball caps now. See: ICE arrests and Trump's comment on needing more El Salvadoran prison space for "the homegrowns"
    - artemisart 1y ago
      That was the joke.
      - deleted 1y ago
        [deleted]
      - Dylan16807 1y ago
        The joke is AI knowing the job requirements better than the person using it? When talking about chatgpt? I'm confused.
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
- sieabahlpark 1y ago
kittikitti 1y ago
This is on purpose so OpenAI can then litigate against them. This API isn't about a new feature, it's about control. OpenAI is the biggest bully in the space of generative AI and their disinformation and intimidation tactics are working.
subroutine 1y ago
Do you work with OpenAI models via FedRAMP GGC High Azure? If so I would love to hear more about your experience.
- kryogen1c 1y ago
  I'd be interested to hear if that's even possible. GCCH is typically 6-12 months behind in feature set.
  - subroutine 1y ago
    See my comment above.
- cuuupid 1y ago
  No, but have heard many rumors they are eyeing their own IL4 environment (apparently Azure has been a bad partner and is months behind on models) I personally just warn customers that it cannot technically handle CUI or higher, can't say that it stops them
  - subroutine 1y ago
    I ask, because according to MS... "GPT-4o is now available as part of Azure OpenAI Service for Azure Government and included as part of this latest FedRAMP High and DoD IL4/IL5 Authorization." ...we have everything setup in Azure but are weary to start using with CUI. Our DoD contacts think it's good to go, but nobody wants to go on record as giving the go-ahead. https://devblogs.microsoft.com/azuregov/azure-openai-fedramp-high-for-government/ https://devblogs.microsoft.com/azuregov/azure-openai-fedramp... https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/azure/azure-government/compliance/azure-services-in-fedramp-auditscope https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/azure/azure-government/com...
    - starfezzy 1y ago
      Have they given a reason for being hesitant? The whole point of IL4+ is that they handle CUI (and higher). The whole point of services provided for these levels is that they meet the requirements.
deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
vasco 1y ago
Turns out AI alignment just means "align to the customer current subscription plan", and not protecting the world. Classic.
- bilbo0s 1y ago
  More accurate to call it “alignment for plebes and not for the masters of the plebes”. Which I think we all kind of expect coming from the leaders of our society. That’s the way human societies have always worked. I’m sure access to military grade tech is only one small slice in the set of advantages the masters get over the mastered in any human society.
  - wahnfrieden 1y ago
    That’s ahistorical see Dawn of Humanity for rebuttal to naturalness of imposed hierarchy
- thegreatpeter 1y ago
  Protecting the world?
  - spiderice 1y ago
    I also wonder what they mean by that. How is the world protected if China has AI that can handle military tasks but the US doesn't?
    - lobotomizer 1y ago
      [flagged]
- idiotsecant 1y ago
  Right, proper alignment with quarterly results.
  - mapt 1y ago
benterix 1y ago
That tier is also available for text generation, not just images.
0rzech 1y ago
One of the dangers of completely relying on AI is that someone else gets to decide what we can generate with their models.
- giancarlostoro 1y ago
  Just ask Microsoft about Tay. On the one hand, I understand why you want some censoring in your model, on the other, I think it also cripples your models in unexpected ways, I wonder if anyone's done such research, compare two models by the same source training data, one with censoring of offensive things, the other without. Which one provides more accurate answers?
rchaud 1y ago
In 2024, the Pentagon carved out an exception for themselves on the Huawei equipment ban [0] I would imagine defense contractors can cut deals for similar preferential treatment with OAI and the like to be exempt from potentially copyright-infringing uses of their API. [0]https://fortune.com/asia/2024/07/03/pentagon-huawei-ban-national-defense-authorization-act/ https://fortune.com/asia/2024/07/03/pentagon-huawei-ban-nati...

refulgentis 1y ago

It's "tier 5", I've had an account since the 3.0 days so I can't be positive I'm not grandfathered in, but, my understanding is as long as you have a non-trivial amount of spend for a few months you'll have that access. (fwiw for anyone curious how to implement it, it's the 'moderation' parameter in the JSON request you'll send, I missed it for a few hours because it wasn't in Dalle-3)

dunkmaster 1y ago
API shows either auto or low available. Is there another secret value with even lower restrictions?
- refulgentis 1y ago
  Not that I know of. I just took any indication that the parent post meant absolute zero moderation as them being a bit loose with their words and excitable with how they understand things, there were some signs: 1. it's unlikely they completed an API integration quickly enough to have an opinion on military / defense image generation moderation yesterday, so they're almost certainly speaking about ChatGPT. (this is additionally confirmed by image generation requiring tier 5 anyway, which they would have been aware of if they had integrated) 2. The military / defense use cases for image generation are not provided (and the steelman'd version in other comments is nonsensical, i.e. we can quickly validate you can still generate kanban boards or wireframes of ships) 3. The poster passively disclaims being in military / defense themself (grep "in that space") 4. it is hard to envision cases of #2 that do not require universal moderation for OpenAI's sake, i.e. lets say their thought process is along the lines of: defense/military ~= what I think of as CIA ~= black ops ~= image manipulation on social media, thus, the time I said "please edit this photo of the ayatollah to have him eating pig and say I hate allah" means its overmoderated for defense use cases 5. It's unlikely openai wants to be anywhere near PR resulting from #4. Assuming there is a super secret defense tier that allows this, it's at the very least, unlikely that the poster's defense contractor friends were blabbing about about the exclusive completely unmoderated access they had, to the poster, within hours of release. They're pretty serious about that secrecy stuff! 6. It is unlikely the lack of ability to generate images using GPT Image 1 would drive the military to Chinese models (there aren't Chinese LLMs that do this! even if they were, there's plenty of good ol' American diffusion models!)
  - Wowfunhappy 1y ago
    I'm Tier 4 and I'm able to use this API and set moderation to "low". Tier 4 only requires a 30 day waiting period and $1,000 spent on credits. While I as an individual was a bit horrified to learn I've actually spent that much on OpenAI credits over the life of my account, it's practically nothing for most organizations. Even Tier 5 only requires $5,000. OP was clearly implying there is some greater ability only granted to extra special organizations like the military. With all possible respect to OP, I find this all very hard to believe without additional evidence. If nothing else, I don't really see a military application of this API (specifically, not AI in general). I'm sure it would help them create slide decks and such, but you don't need extra special zero moderation for that.
    - throwup238 1y ago
      > With all possible respect to OP, I find this all very hard to believe without additional evidence. If nothing else, I don't really see a military application of this API (specifically, not AI in general). I'm sure it would help them create slide decks and such, but you don't need extra special zero moderation for that. I can't provide additional evidence (it's defense, duh), but the #1 use I've seen is generating images for computer vision training mostly to feed GOFAI algorithms that have already been validated for target acquisition. Image gen algorithms have a pretty good idea of what a T72 tank and different camouflage looks like, and they're much better at generating unique photos combining the two. It's actually a great use of the technology because hallucinations help improve the training data (i.e. the final targetting should be invariant to a T72 tank with a machine gun on the wrong side or with too many turrets, etc.) That said, due to compartmentalization, I don't know the extent to which image gen is used in defense, just my little sliver of it.
      - cuuupid 1y ago
        We can talk about it here, they put out SBIRs for satellite imagery labeling and test set evaluation that provide a good amount of detail into how they're using it.
    - bayesianbot 1y ago

samtp 1y ago

What's a good use case for a defense contractor to generate AI images besides to include in presentations?

aigen000 1y ago
Fabricating evidence of weapons of mass destruction in some developing nation. I kid, more real world use cases would be for concept images for a new product or marketing campaigns.
- toasteros 1y ago
  ...you can do that with a pencil, though. What an impossibly weird thing to "need" an LLM for.
  - Gud 1y ago
    I suppose you walk by foot everywhere?
    - toasteros 1y ago
      Sometimes. My feet don't have a random chance to send me in a random direction to that which I intend.
      - olyjohn 1y ago
        This is why I don't ride horses.
  - KeplerBoy 1y ago
    You can also create images by poking bits in a hex editor. Some tools are better suited than others.
ZeroTalent 1y ago
Manufacturing consent

throwaway314155 1y ago

> 4 different defense contractors in the last day Now I'm just wondering what the hell defense contractors need image generation for that isn't obviously horrifying...

morleytj 1y ago
It's probably horrifying!
Aeolun 1y ago
“Generate me a crowd of civilians with one terrorist in.” “Please move them to some desert, not the empire state building.” “The civilians are supposed to have turbans, not ballcaps.”
- ziml77 1y ago
  That's very outdated, they're absolutely supposed to be at the Empire State Building with baseball caps now. See: ICE arrests and Trump's comment on needing more El Salvadoran prison space for "the homegrowns"
  - artemisart 1y ago
    That was the joke.
    - deleted 1y ago
      [deleted]
    - Dylan16807 1y ago
      The joke is AI knowing the job requirements better than the person using it? When talking about chatgpt? I'm confused.
deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
sieabahlpark 1y ago

kittikitti 1y ago

This is on purpose so OpenAI can then litigate against them. This API isn't about a new feature, it's about control. OpenAI is the biggest bully in the space of generative AI and their disinformation and intimidation tactics are working.

subroutine 1y ago

Do you work with OpenAI models via FedRAMP GGC High Azure? If so I would love to hear more about your experience.

kryogen1c 1y ago
I'd be interested to hear if that's even possible. GCCH is typically 6-12 months behind in feature set.
- subroutine 1y ago
  See my comment above.
cuuupid 1y ago
No, but have heard many rumors they are eyeing their own IL4 environment (apparently Azure has been a bad partner and is months behind on models) I personally just warn customers that it cannot technically handle CUI or higher, can't say that it stops them
- subroutine 1y ago
  I ask, because according to MS... "GPT-4o is now available as part of Azure OpenAI Service for Azure Government and included as part of this latest FedRAMP High and DoD IL4/IL5 Authorization." ...we have everything setup in Azure but are weary to start using with CUI. Our DoD contacts think it's good to go, but nobody wants to go on record as giving the go-ahead. https://devblogs.microsoft.com/azuregov/azure-openai-fedramp-high-for-government/ https://devblogs.microsoft.com/azuregov/azure-openai-fedramp... https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/azure/azure-government/compliance/azure-services-in-fedramp-auditscope https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/azure/azure-government/com...
  - starfezzy 1y ago
    Have they given a reason for being hesitant? The whole point of IL4+ is that they handle CUI (and higher). The whole point of services provided for these levels is that they meet the requirements.

deleted 1y ago

[deleted]

deleted 1y ago

[deleted]

vasco 1y ago

Turns out AI alignment just means "align to the customer current subscription plan", and not protecting the world. Classic.

bilbo0s 1y ago
More accurate to call it “alignment for plebes and not for the masters of the plebes”. Which I think we all kind of expect coming from the leaders of our society. That’s the way human societies have always worked. I’m sure access to military grade tech is only one small slice in the set of advantages the masters get over the mastered in any human society.
- wahnfrieden 1y ago
  That’s ahistorical see Dawn of Humanity for rebuttal to naturalness of imposed hierarchy
thegreatpeter 1y ago
Protecting the world?
- spiderice 1y ago
  I also wonder what they mean by that. How is the world protected if China has AI that can handle military tasks but the US doesn't?
  - lobotomizer 1y ago
    [flagged]
idiotsecant 1y ago
Right, proper alignment with quarterly results.
- mapt 1y ago

benterix 1y ago

That tier is also available for text generation, not just images.

0rzech 1y ago

One of the dangers of completely relying on AI is that someone else gets to decide what we can generate with their models.

giancarlostoro 1y ago
Just ask Microsoft about Tay. On the one hand, I understand why you want some censoring in your model, on the other, I think it also cripples your models in unexpected ways, I wonder if anyone's done such research, compare two models by the same source training data, one with censoring of offensive things, the other without. Which one provides more accurate answers?

rchaud 1y ago

In 2024, the Pentagon carved out an exception for themselves on the Huawei equipment ban [0] I would imagine defense contractors can cut deals for similar preferential treatment with OAI and the like to be exempt from potentially copyright-infringing uses of their API. [0]https://fortune.com/asia/2024/07/03/pentagon-huawei-ban-national-defense-authorization-act/ https://fortune.com/asia/2024/07/03/pentagon-huawei-ban-nati...