5 ms·

The tools I love are made by awful people

83 points by todsacerdoti 2y ago

intonite 2y ago
[flagged]
mergy 2y ago
Switching to Linux is not easy. You almost have to hit a wall when you are just done with the bargaining to keep something like Apple or Windows. It kind of takes a major jump. You also need to be persistent after that jump and not retrench when you can't pull from the familiar. You'll get there at some point just don't think or care about the awful people - think about how and in what way you want to operate directionally going forward and it will click.
- disillusioned 2y ago
  I still remember getting all amped up at taking the leap to Linux when I read this or that guide for doing so in a 90s issue of MaximumPC and I made it as far as realizing there weren't drivers that would work with my mouse (without _considerable_ effort) and noped right out.
  - the_third_wave 2y ago
    > taking the leap to Linux when I read ... there weren't drivers that would work with my mouse (without _considerable_ effort) and noped [sic.] right out. That wasn't much of a leap you were planning it a mouse got in your way, especially given you seem to have planned this "leap" in the 90's - solidly within Windows 9X territory which was infamous for its instability and reboot-tendency: You moved your mouse pointer, your PC needs to be restarted for this change to be implemented. . [OK] [Ignore] [Cancel]
- pjerem 2y ago
  > Switching to Linux is not easy. Which is a shame because in itself, most Linux distros _are_ easy. The ergonomics and the rationales are, imo, better/easier to understand than Windows or even MacOS. In fact, even _installing_ a modern distro is easier than installing Windows 11. What’s hard is not Linux, it’s switching. It requires to, well, think different :) Having said that, I honestly think switching from Windows to MacOS is harder. I appreciate working with macOS and it can be pretty ergonomic but it’s honestly barely usable without installing and paying for half a dozen sharewares.
  - wink 2y ago
    I think that's personal preference and circumstances though. I have used Windows on the desktop since 1994, I have used Linux on desktops since 1998 (work machines being 50% or exclusively Linux since 2010ish) and I got my first mac last autumn. (Planned Linux but some unimportant things stood in the way, so I gave it a shot). Working on Windows is pure pain for me. I use it as my gaming/browsing machine and every time I have to touch code I hate it. Linux is 100% fine for work, but I noticed I am having problems with games with my usual setup with tiling window managers (i.e lots of fullscreen usage and non-easily-resizable windows, also getting my Logitech's G keys recognized). macos is... 90% fine actually. I hate some small things but otherwise it just works, the windows key as cmd is actually in a nicer position than ctrl, but that might be my weird hands. So if I wasn't playing certain games with certain keybinds, switching to Linux fulltime would have happened like 10y ago for me.
imgabe 2y ago
There’s this modern affliction where people believe they are morally responsible for the actions of every person they buy anything from. For your own sanity, please let this go. You are responsible for your own actions. If you buy a pen from a psychopath and he uses the money to buy a bullet and shoot someone, that’s not your fault. He’s responsible for his actions. It’s like everyone somehow forgot that other humans are sentient beings with their own agency. Main character syndrome run amok.
- polishdude20 2y ago
  I feel the same. It may be because it's easier to feel virtuous by not buying a company product than to actually be virtuous by going out doing virtuous things.
  - giomasce 2y ago
    Giving up something you'd otherwise enjoy or find convenient because it would indirectly bring harm to other people feels a very virtuous action to me. I wish more people (including me) had the ability to do that more.
- dheerajvs 2y ago
  While I agree with the sentiment, just out of curiosity, would you buy a Tesla if it meets your needs and even if you disapprove of Elon's actions?
  - Ekaros 2y ago
    I would. With some modification. If it was cheapest vehicle on market that meets my needs I would probably buy it. But it is neither cheapest or gas...
  - lolinder 2y ago
    I think it's more rational to fuss about buying a Tesla than about buying a Windows license for a few reasons: * It's a heck of a lot of money to send to any company, so it makes more sense to pause and consider what you're funding. I can't put that much effort into every <$100 purchase without going crazy. * Tesla is far more about Musk than Microsoft is about... whoever runs Microsoft these days. There's a very specific person tied to it. * Driving a Tesla is seen by the world as a statement of some kind in a way that running Windows simply isn't. It's worth considering if that's a statement you want to be making.
nradov 2y ago
We're all awful people, every one of us. Some are better at hiding it than others.
- rpgwaiter 2y ago
  Sounds like projection to me
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- fargle 2y ago
  the overwhelming majority of people, 95%+, are wonderful awesome people. probably you too. awesome people sometimes screw up, but that's OK. if you really still think that "everyone sucks" then maybe you are in the 5%
  - dogleash 2y ago
    Alternate frames of reference aren't inherently misanthropy or make people lesser. And the "if you disagree, you're proving me right" style dig at the parent poster is toxic positivity.
    - s1artibartfast 2y ago
      If someone's frame of reference is that most people are awful, I think that is the definition of misanthropy. I think what started as edgy realism and critical analysis shot well past its utility and has become toxic and destructive. Skeptical counternarratives are useful as a counterpoint to keep people honest and realistic. When they become the dominant narrative, they are destructive and self fulfilling. People are awful, they deserve to suffer. The deck is stacked, don't try. Life is pointless, why bother. Good deeds don't matter because they are insignificant at global scale. A society or individual that hates itself will not fulfill any of the virtues it holds dear.
Animats 2y ago
I've been entirely on Linux for over fifteen years now. And I used to develop for Win32.
- safety1st 2y ago
  Same here! I'd love to know why the author keeps crawling back to Mac after trying Linux. I feel grateful that Linux exists and would never contemplate moving away from it. I totally understand that I am an esoteric techie and other people may have different experiences, of course. But in the ~14 years Linux has been my daily driver, it has improved so much.
  - geniium 2y ago
    for me the main reason is that mac just works. I spent less time configuring my OS and tinkering around and just focus on my work.
    - worthless-trash 2y ago
      Is it just because you can't on a mac ?
      - geniium 2y ago
        what do u mean?
        worthless-trash 2y ago
        There are choices and source available for Linux, not so much for tooling on osx.
    - bhaak 2y ago
      For low levels of "it just works". Every major OS update Apple changes something that breaks either specific programs or restricts the OS further which leads to breakage. The "too many files open" error could be fixed by raising the limit of open files (there are instances where a tool really does need lots of open files and isn't leaking) but nowadays I need to break the security of my own hardware to maybe be able to raise it as Apple adds hoops and is changing what to do every so often.
sitkack 2y ago
soundtrack to the post https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r8Igmd424X8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r8Igmd424X8
lenkite 2y ago
I would love it if I could use Linux on the Desktop. Windows 11 feels a practical joke played on humanity by Nadella. The new Macbooks have amazing hardware, but the software quality has deteriorated considerably - even spotlight has bugs nowadays. However, I need basic sleep/restore to work on my laptop - and it feels like this is a Mars-mission-effort level problem for Linux to solve. If the Linux Software Foundation started a Linux-On-The-Desktop project that addressed core usability and stability issues, I would gladly contribute monthly towards it.
- all2 2y ago
  I hate that this is true. I have 10 year old hardware and I still haven't managed to get suspend on lid close to work. Also, power management? Linux seems really power hungry. I expect 6ish hours out of the battery I have, but with Linux doing browsing and coding I get 2 to 3ish hours, even with cpu throttling and the dimmest back light settings. Have mainline Fedora or Ubuntu solved these issues?
  - zelphirkalt 2y ago
    It all depends on your hardware and whether that is well supported. The blame lies with hardware manufacturers keeping secrets and proprietary software vendors. It is a reverse engineering effort to get this stuff to work properly.
  - worthless-trash 2y ago
    No distro solves problems by itself, the upstream kernel does. Fedora pushes upstream first, ubuntu much later if it does. Because computers are complex, and there are many computers with many different hardware configurations nobody can answer if it solves the issues for you.
  - daemonologist 2y ago
    I'm on mainline Fedora on a Thinkpad Z13 (Gen 1). Sleep works unless I connect or disconnect a thunderbolt device while the machine is sleeping (which hard crashes the system); I would say it's noticeably more reliable than Windows. Power consumption is still poor in all states - usable, but generally worse than under Windows and pathetic compared to a Macbook.
lieblingautor 2y ago
is linux made by good people?
- ninetyninenine 2y ago
  its not. People are people. Only the incentives are different.
- onionisafruit 2y ago
  The tools I love are made by flawed people
- antupis 2y ago
  Yeah I first tought that this was rant about how Linus Torvalds is asshole.
- troupo 2y ago
  Mostly by corporations: https://kernelnewbies.org/DevelopmentStatistics https://kernelnewbies.org/DevelopmentStatistics
- Ekaros 2y ago
  Stallman is interesting personality. To put it politely. Does he belong to good people? Somewhat orthogonal question. And goodness of his stances on software is also well something that can be debated validly.
akho 2y ago
> Things will only change when democratically elected governments across the world step in with regulation, drag Big Tech through the courts, and fine them billions of dollars. How will that help you install Linux.
- adastra22 2y ago
  How will it help anything, really? The law of unintended consequences will strike once again.
  - bolognafairy 2y ago
    Yep. Fuck laws. The fact that there are potential negative consequences means that we should throw them all out!
    - adastra22 2y ago
      It means we should engineer incentives rather than trying to regulate outcomes. Policy choices aren’t binary.
      - aptj 2y ago
        Well, good laws should facilitate healthy incentives, also by restricting/discouraging bad behaviors, right? How do we engineer incentives for regulators to be willing to prioritize the broader and industrial engineering of healthier incentives?
      - apercu 2y ago
        Oh yea, the billionaire and shareholder class can totally be incentivized to be good global citizens. /s
        adastra22 2y ago
        Yes, make it so they get more money by being better citizens. That’s the only way it will ever work. I fail to see the sarcasm here.
spaqin 2y ago
The part about melding human and machine feels awfully pretentious. Just use the tools that let you be productive. It's okay to separate the art from the artist. And if you really do care about the global well-being, then... force yourself to the switch (for the moral greater good, after all!) and don't complain about it on the internet?
geniium 2y ago
> Why am I in this state of tension with computer products when I use a multitude of non-computer products made by corporations that cause much more harm to people and nature? > I drive a Hyundai car, shop at Reliance stores, wear clothing made by Zara. Why am I not concerned about the poor behavior of these other organizations? It’s not like they’re any better than Google, Microsoft, or Apple. > Honestly, the reason is not entirely rational. Honestly I don't have the answer and it's a great question. There seems to be a mix of passion, trends, media, social exchanges and probably tons of small parameters making this happen in our heads.
vczf 2y ago
The genius of capitalism is in its unique ability to harness the energy of sociopaths* to produce valuable products and services**. If there was no freedom to amass fortunes, these people would still exist, and they would do even more damage in whatever theoretical social structure we would have. * And to a lesser degree, the self-interest everybody naturally possesses. ** Minimizing negative externalities is the responsibility of government accountable to the people.
- ranger_danger 2y ago
  Agreed, I think the failures of both socialism and "small government" have proven this by now.
troupo 2y ago
Switching to Linux won't help either, because Linux (at least the kernel) is developed mostly by the same corporations: https://kernelnewbies.org/DevelopmentStatistics https://kernelnewbies.org/DevelopmentStatistics
dismalaf 2y ago
I've been using Linux exclusively for 15 years. Went through my entire university degree using only Linux. The biggest issue people face when switching is the desire for it to be the same as their previous OS. It's not. It never will be. It's different (and IMO better). Like GNOME Shell, so many people hate it. No dock, no way to minimize Windows, etc... Until you actually try to learn it a little. Launching apps is super quick with the search, you can bring up overview with 3 finger swipe up on the touchpad, scroll virtual desktops with 3 finger sideways swipe, arrange your windows with meta + arrow keys, etc... Its nearly as keyboard driven and quick to use as a tiling window manager yet my wife can use it as well (she's very much not technical). As for apps, there's an app for everything normal people need to do. For developers, it's easily the best OS. Games, it's got most of them. I guess if you're an accountant forced to use Excel don't bother (and if you're not forced to use Excel, Gnumeric is better anyway).
- ranger_danger 2y ago
  > the desire for it to be the same as their previous OS I think most FOSS developers completely miss this point, assuming their goal is to get more people to use their software. Sure GNOME can be usable if you learn a different way, but you can't force everyone to do that. Not even most people. So I think if they really cared about doing what's necessary to get a lot more users, they're going to have to make their product more like what the potential new users expect, whether the developers like it or not.
  - akho 2y ago
    > assuming their goal is to get more people to use their software. That’s rare, and is a very difficult motivation to understand. Such projects are also usually a mess.
    - ranger_danger 2y ago
      Why do you think it's rare? Unless it's a personal project not meant for others, why would they not want more people to use it and get more popular? To me this is like people getting upset when their favorite indie band "sells out", even though their increased popularity is always seen as a much bigger positive than any potential downsides of the "sellout".
mifydev 2y ago
I switched to Linux 12 years ago and still use it daily, although I think the problem is bigger than that. Even though hardware support is getting better, some bugs are lingering for years, and Wayland took such a long time to be a viable option. Now, as desktop became more complex to support, new platforms are coming, VR and mobile. Mobile: I own Librem 5, and it was the biggest purchase disappointment I have ever had. I've been ridiculed by my friends while I was waiting for it for years, and when it was delivered, it was too outdated to use. The only silver lining from this is that mobile support exists in GNOME and KDE now. Hardware is still not there. VR: I have not seen any viable option. I'm optimising, and hoping that with AI it would be easier to support all of this, but now it looks kinda gloomy.
jackphilson 2y ago
Parodoxically, this aversion to convenience decreases his ability to make a positive impact. Much better to focus on improving your ability to make a positive impact instead. Filling your mind with negativity makes you unhappy, outsources your power and attention ("minimize my impact", "do less bad"), and distracts you from doing good.
throwy98888 2y ago
[flagged]
casey2 2y ago
Articles like these always lack perspective despite desperately trying to seem woke. These "awful people" are the people that stepped up in the system and were forced to make the hard decisions. You can either be the guy paying strike breakers to kill your striking workers or the guy whose business failed. Do you really think you are any less awful for deciding to minimize your participation? Who am I kidding, progressive economic theory hasn't progressed passed "lets kill everyone who is better off than me"
brunkerhart 2y ago
Have the author did the reality check exercise? What might seem as awful conditions by some westerner, might be great given other options. Once I read a post about working at Foxconn - assembly line for majority of hardware manufacturers. You might remember people were dropping off the roof because of hard working conditions. Yet they have a line of candidates. Because the other option is working at the same intensity but at no conditioned and barely ventilated clothing shop.
- captn3m0 2y ago
  The author lives in India, where Foxconn has multiple factories.
jerome-jh 2y ago
I experience some of the same tension being a SW engineer and seing how much SW is dysfunctionning on a day to day basis, sometimes not being able to help relatives having issues with their phone/PC. Actually most of the time this is SW business which is dysfunctionnal. I totally agree with the phrase "asshole companies", which make people's life miserable on purpose.
tim333 2y ago
>...made by awful people..mac... I think awful people is a bit unfair to the folks at Apple. They are probably much like other people, maybe a bit nicer judging by my years of using macs. Large corporations will never be perfect but not much is. At least they are not Comcast or HP.

83 points by todsacerdoti 2y ago

[flagged]

Switching to Linux is not easy. You almost have to hit a wall when you are just done with the bargaining to keep something like Apple or Windows. It kind of takes a major jump. You also need to be persistent after that jump and not retrench when you can't pull from the familiar. You'll get there at some point just don't think or care about the awful people - think about how and in what way you want to operate directionally going forward and it will click.

disillusioned 2y ago
I still remember getting all amped up at taking the leap to Linux when I read this or that guide for doing so in a 90s issue of MaximumPC and I made it as far as realizing there weren't drivers that would work with my mouse (without _considerable_ effort) and noped right out.
- the_third_wave 2y ago
  > taking the leap to Linux when I read ... there weren't drivers that would work with my mouse (without _considerable_ effort) and noped [sic.] right out. That wasn't much of a leap you were planning it a mouse got in your way, especially given you seem to have planned this "leap" in the 90's - solidly within Windows 9X territory which was infamous for its instability and reboot-tendency: You moved your mouse pointer, your PC needs to be restarted for this change to be implemented. . [OK] [Ignore] [Cancel]
pjerem 2y ago
> Switching to Linux is not easy. Which is a shame because in itself, most Linux distros _are_ easy. The ergonomics and the rationales are, imo, better/easier to understand than Windows or even MacOS. In fact, even _installing_ a modern distro is easier than installing Windows 11. What’s hard is not Linux, it’s switching. It requires to, well, think different :) Having said that, I honestly think switching from Windows to MacOS is harder. I appreciate working with macOS and it can be pretty ergonomic but it’s honestly barely usable without installing and paying for half a dozen sharewares.
- wink 2y ago
  I think that's personal preference and circumstances though. I have used Windows on the desktop since 1994, I have used Linux on desktops since 1998 (work machines being 50% or exclusively Linux since 2010ish) and I got my first mac last autumn. (Planned Linux but some unimportant things stood in the way, so I gave it a shot). Working on Windows is pure pain for me. I use it as my gaming/browsing machine and every time I have to touch code I hate it. Linux is 100% fine for work, but I noticed I am having problems with games with my usual setup with tiling window managers (i.e lots of fullscreen usage and non-easily-resizable windows, also getting my Logitech's G keys recognized). macos is... 90% fine actually. I hate some small things but otherwise it just works, the windows key as cmd is actually in a nicer position than ctrl, but that might be my weird hands. So if I wasn't playing certain games with certain keybinds, switching to Linux fulltime would have happened like 10y ago for me.

imgabe 2y ago

There’s this modern affliction where people believe they are morally responsible for the actions of every person they buy anything from. For your own sanity, please let this go. You are responsible for your own actions. If you buy a pen from a psychopath and he uses the money to buy a bullet and shoot someone, that’s not your fault. He’s responsible for his actions. It’s like everyone somehow forgot that other humans are sentient beings with their own agency. Main character syndrome run amok.

polishdude20 2y ago
I feel the same. It may be because it's easier to feel virtuous by not buying a company product than to actually be virtuous by going out doing virtuous things.
- giomasce 2y ago
  Giving up something you'd otherwise enjoy or find convenient because it would indirectly bring harm to other people feels a very virtuous action to me. I wish more people (including me) had the ability to do that more.
dheerajvs 2y ago
While I agree with the sentiment, just out of curiosity, would you buy a Tesla if it meets your needs and even if you disapprove of Elon's actions?
- Ekaros 2y ago
  I would. With some modification. If it was cheapest vehicle on market that meets my needs I would probably buy it. But it is neither cheapest or gas...
- lolinder 2y ago
  I think it's more rational to fuss about buying a Tesla than about buying a Windows license for a few reasons: * It's a heck of a lot of money to send to any company, so it makes more sense to pause and consider what you're funding. I can't put that much effort into every <$100 purchase without going crazy. * Tesla is far more about Musk than Microsoft is about... whoever runs Microsoft these days. There's a very specific person tied to it. * Driving a Tesla is seen by the world as a statement of some kind in a way that running Windows simply isn't. It's worth considering if that's a statement you want to be making.

nradov 2y ago

We're all awful people, every one of us. Some are better at hiding it than others.

rpgwaiter 2y ago
Sounds like projection to me
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
fargle 2y ago
the overwhelming majority of people, 95%+, are wonderful awesome people. probably you too. awesome people sometimes screw up, but that's OK. if you really still think that "everyone sucks" then maybe you are in the 5%
- dogleash 2y ago
  Alternate frames of reference aren't inherently misanthropy or make people lesser. And the "if you disagree, you're proving me right" style dig at the parent poster is toxic positivity.
  - s1artibartfast 2y ago
    If someone's frame of reference is that most people are awful, I think that is the definition of misanthropy. I think what started as edgy realism and critical analysis shot well past its utility and has become toxic and destructive. Skeptical counternarratives are useful as a counterpoint to keep people honest and realistic. When they become the dominant narrative, they are destructive and self fulfilling. People are awful, they deserve to suffer. The deck is stacked, don't try. Life is pointless, why bother. Good deeds don't matter because they are insignificant at global scale. A society or individual that hates itself will not fulfill any of the virtues it holds dear.

Animats 2y ago

I've been entirely on Linux for over fifteen years now. And I used to develop for Win32.

safety1st 2y ago
Same here! I'd love to know why the author keeps crawling back to Mac after trying Linux. I feel grateful that Linux exists and would never contemplate moving away from it. I totally understand that I am an esoteric techie and other people may have different experiences, of course. But in the ~14 years Linux has been my daily driver, it has improved so much.
- geniium 2y ago
  for me the main reason is that mac just works. I spent less time configuring my OS and tinkering around and just focus on my work.
  - worthless-trash 2y ago
    Is it just because you can't on a mac ?
    - geniium 2y ago
      what do u mean?
      - worthless-trash 2y ago
        There are choices and source available for Linux, not so much for tooling on osx.
  - bhaak 2y ago
    For low levels of "it just works". Every major OS update Apple changes something that breaks either specific programs or restricts the OS further which leads to breakage. The "too many files open" error could be fixed by raising the limit of open files (there are instances where a tool really does need lots of open files and isn't leaking) but nowadays I need to break the security of my own hardware to maybe be able to raise it as Apple adds hoops and is changing what to do every so often.

sitkack 2y ago

soundtrack to the post https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r8Igmd424X8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r8Igmd424X8

lenkite 2y ago

I would love it if I could use Linux on the Desktop. Windows 11 feels a practical joke played on humanity by Nadella. The new Macbooks have amazing hardware, but the software quality has deteriorated considerably - even spotlight has bugs nowadays. However, I need basic sleep/restore to work on my laptop - and it feels like this is a Mars-mission-effort level problem for Linux to solve. If the Linux Software Foundation started a Linux-On-The-Desktop project that addressed core usability and stability issues, I would gladly contribute monthly towards it.

all2 2y ago
I hate that this is true. I have 10 year old hardware and I still haven't managed to get suspend on lid close to work. Also, power management? Linux seems really power hungry. I expect 6ish hours out of the battery I have, but with Linux doing browsing and coding I get 2 to 3ish hours, even with cpu throttling and the dimmest back light settings. Have mainline Fedora or Ubuntu solved these issues?
- zelphirkalt 2y ago
  It all depends on your hardware and whether that is well supported. The blame lies with hardware manufacturers keeping secrets and proprietary software vendors. It is a reverse engineering effort to get this stuff to work properly.
- worthless-trash 2y ago
  No distro solves problems by itself, the upstream kernel does. Fedora pushes upstream first, ubuntu much later if it does. Because computers are complex, and there are many computers with many different hardware configurations nobody can answer if it solves the issues for you.
- daemonologist 2y ago
  I'm on mainline Fedora on a Thinkpad Z13 (Gen 1). Sleep works unless I connect or disconnect a thunderbolt device while the machine is sleeping (which hard crashes the system); I would say it's noticeably more reliable than Windows. Power consumption is still poor in all states - usable, but generally worse than under Windows and pathetic compared to a Macbook.

lieblingautor 2y ago

is linux made by good people?

ninetyninenine 2y ago
its not. People are people. Only the incentives are different.
onionisafruit 2y ago
The tools I love are made by flawed people
antupis 2y ago
Yeah I first tought that this was rant about how Linus Torvalds is asshole.
troupo 2y ago
Mostly by corporations: https://kernelnewbies.org/DevelopmentStatistics https://kernelnewbies.org/DevelopmentStatistics
Ekaros 2y ago
Stallman is interesting personality. To put it politely. Does he belong to good people? Somewhat orthogonal question. And goodness of his stances on software is also well something that can be debated validly.

akho 2y ago

> Things will only change when democratically elected governments across the world step in with regulation, drag Big Tech through the courts, and fine them billions of dollars. How will that help you install Linux.

adastra22 2y ago
How will it help anything, really? The law of unintended consequences will strike once again.
- bolognafairy 2y ago
  Yep. Fuck laws. The fact that there are potential negative consequences means that we should throw them all out!
  - adastra22 2y ago
    It means we should engineer incentives rather than trying to regulate outcomes. Policy choices aren’t binary.
    - aptj 2y ago
      Well, good laws should facilitate healthy incentives, also by restricting/discouraging bad behaviors, right? How do we engineer incentives for regulators to be willing to prioritize the broader and industrial engineering of healthier incentives?
    - apercu 2y ago
      Oh yea, the billionaire and shareholder class can totally be incentivized to be good global citizens. /s
      - adastra22 2y ago
        Yes, make it so they get more money by being better citizens. That’s the only way it will ever work. I fail to see the sarcasm here.

spaqin 2y ago

The part about melding human and machine feels awfully pretentious. Just use the tools that let you be productive. It's okay to separate the art from the artist. And if you really do care about the global well-being, then... force yourself to the switch (for the moral greater good, after all!) and don't complain about it on the internet?

geniium 2y ago

> Why am I in this state of tension with computer products when I use a multitude of non-computer products made by corporations that cause much more harm to people and nature? > I drive a Hyundai car, shop at Reliance stores, wear clothing made by Zara. Why am I not concerned about the poor behavior of these other organizations? It’s not like they’re any better than Google, Microsoft, or Apple. > Honestly, the reason is not entirely rational. Honestly I don't have the answer and it's a great question. There seems to be a mix of passion, trends, media, social exchanges and probably tons of small parameters making this happen in our heads.

vczf 2y ago

The genius of capitalism is in its unique ability to harness the energy of sociopaths* to produce valuable products and services**. If there was no freedom to amass fortunes, these people would still exist, and they would do even more damage in whatever theoretical social structure we would have. * And to a lesser degree, the self-interest everybody naturally possesses. ** Minimizing negative externalities is the responsibility of government accountable to the people.

ranger_danger 2y ago
Agreed, I think the failures of both socialism and "small government" have proven this by now.

troupo 2y ago

Switching to Linux won't help either, because Linux (at least the kernel) is developed mostly by the same corporations: https://kernelnewbies.org/DevelopmentStatistics https://kernelnewbies.org/DevelopmentStatistics

dismalaf 2y ago

I've been using Linux exclusively for 15 years. Went through my entire university degree using only Linux. The biggest issue people face when switching is the desire for it to be the same as their previous OS. It's not. It never will be. It's different (and IMO better). Like GNOME Shell, so many people hate it. No dock, no way to minimize Windows, etc... Until you actually try to learn it a little. Launching apps is super quick with the search, you can bring up overview with 3 finger swipe up on the touchpad, scroll virtual desktops with 3 finger sideways swipe, arrange your windows with meta + arrow keys, etc... Its nearly as keyboard driven and quick to use as a tiling window manager yet my wife can use it as well (she's very much not technical). As for apps, there's an app for everything normal people need to do. For developers, it's easily the best OS. Games, it's got most of them. I guess if you're an accountant forced to use Excel don't bother (and if you're not forced to use Excel, Gnumeric is better anyway).

ranger_danger 2y ago
> the desire for it to be the same as their previous OS I think most FOSS developers completely miss this point, assuming their goal is to get more people to use their software. Sure GNOME can be usable if you learn a different way, but you can't force everyone to do that. Not even most people. So I think if they really cared about doing what's necessary to get a lot more users, they're going to have to make their product more like what the potential new users expect, whether the developers like it or not.
- akho 2y ago
  > assuming their goal is to get more people to use their software. That’s rare, and is a very difficult motivation to understand. Such projects are also usually a mess.
  - ranger_danger 2y ago
    Why do you think it's rare? Unless it's a personal project not meant for others, why would they not want more people to use it and get more popular? To me this is like people getting upset when their favorite indie band "sells out", even though their increased popularity is always seen as a much bigger positive than any potential downsides of the "sellout".

mifydev 2y ago

I switched to Linux 12 years ago and still use it daily, although I think the problem is bigger than that. Even though hardware support is getting better, some bugs are lingering for years, and Wayland took such a long time to be a viable option. Now, as desktop became more complex to support, new platforms are coming, VR and mobile. Mobile: I own Librem 5, and it was the biggest purchase disappointment I have ever had. I've been ridiculed by my friends while I was waiting for it for years, and when it was delivered, it was too outdated to use. The only silver lining from this is that mobile support exists in GNOME and KDE now. Hardware is still not there. VR: I have not seen any viable option. I'm optimising, and hoping that with AI it would be easier to support all of this, but now it looks kinda gloomy.

jackphilson 2y ago

Parodoxically, this aversion to convenience decreases his ability to make a positive impact. Much better to focus on improving your ability to make a positive impact instead. Filling your mind with negativity makes you unhappy, outsources your power and attention ("minimize my impact", "do less bad"), and distracts you from doing good.

throwy98888 2y ago

[flagged]

casey2 2y ago

Articles like these always lack perspective despite desperately trying to seem woke. These "awful people" are the people that stepped up in the system and were forced to make the hard decisions. You can either be the guy paying strike breakers to kill your striking workers or the guy whose business failed. Do you really think you are any less awful for deciding to minimize your participation? Who am I kidding, progressive economic theory hasn't progressed passed "lets kill everyone who is better off than me"

brunkerhart 2y ago

Have the author did the reality check exercise? What might seem as awful conditions by some westerner, might be great given other options. Once I read a post about working at Foxconn - assembly line for majority of hardware manufacturers. You might remember people were dropping off the roof because of hard working conditions. Yet they have a line of candidates. Because the other option is working at the same intensity but at no conditioned and barely ventilated clothing shop.

captn3m0 2y ago
The author lives in India, where Foxconn has multiple factories.

jerome-jh 2y ago

I experience some of the same tension being a SW engineer and seing how much SW is dysfunctionning on a day to day basis, sometimes not being able to help relatives having issues with their phone/PC. Actually most of the time this is SW business which is dysfunctionnal. I totally agree with the phrase "asshole companies", which make people's life miserable on purpose.

tim333 2y ago

>...made by awful people..mac... I think awful people is a bit unfair to the folks at Apple. They are probably much like other people, maybe a bit nicer judging by my years of using macs. Large corporations will never be perfect but not much is. At least they are not Comcast or HP.