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Google making Gemini 2.5 Pro (Experimental) free was a big deal. I haven't tried the more expensive OpenAI models so I can't even compare, only to the free mode
by zoogeny 1y ago
Google making Gemini 2.5 Pro (Experimental) free was a big deal. I haven't tried the more expensive OpenAI models so I can't even compare, only to the free models I have used of theirs in the past.
Gemini 2.5 Pro is so much of a step up (IME) that I've become sold on Google's models in general. It not only is smarter than me on most of the subjects I engage with it, it also isn't completely obsequious. The model pushes back on me rather than contorting itself to find a way to agree.
100% of my casual AI usage is now in Gemini and I look forward to asking it questions on deep topics because it consistently provides me with insight. I am building new tools with the mind to optimize my usage to increase it's value to me.
- PerusingAround 1y agoThis comment is exactly my experience, I feel like as if I had wrote it myself.
- cjohnson318 1y agoYeah, my wife pays for ChatGPT, but Gemini is fine enough for me.
- qwertox 1y agoJust be aware that if you don't add a key (and set up billing) youre granting Google the right to train on your data. To have persons read them and decide how to use them for training.
- energy123 1y agoI thought if you turn off App Activity then that's good enough to protect your data?
- voxic11 1y agoNope, not if you are in the US https://ai.google.dev/gemini-api/terms#data-use-unpaid https://ai.google.dev/gemini-api/terms#data-use-unpaid
- Graphon1 1y ago> To have persons read them and decide how to use them for training. Not that I have any actual insight. but doesn't it seem more likely that it will not be a human, but a model? Models training models.
- qwertox 1y ago> To help with quality and improve our products, human reviewers may read, annotate, and process your API input and output. Google takes steps to protect your privacy as part of this process. This includes disconnecting this data from your Google Account, API key, and Cloud project before reviewers see or annotate it. Do not submit sensitive, confidential, or personal information to the Unpaid Services.
- HDThoreaun 1y agoUnless you have the enterprise sub of openAI theyre training on your data too
- dr_kiszonka 1y agoI was a big fan of that model but it has been replaced in AI Studio by its preview version, which, by comparison, is pretty bad. I hope Google makes the release version much closer to the experimental one.
- zoogeny 1y agoI can confirm the model name in Run Settings has been updated to "Gemini 2.5 Pro Preview ..." when it used to be "Gemini 2.5 Pro (Experimental) ...". I cannot confirm if the quality is downgraded since I haven't had enough time with it. But if what you are saying is correct, I would be very sad. My big fear is the full-fat Gemini 2.5 Pro will be prohibitively expensive, but a dumbed down model (for the sake of cost) would also be saddening.
- dieortin 1y agoThe preview version is exactly the same as the experimental one afaik
- gundmc 1y agoThe AI Studio product lead said on Twitter that it is exactly the same model just renamed for clarity when pricing was announced
- jeeeb 1y agoAfter comparing Gemini Pro and Claude Sonnet 3.7 coding answers side by side a few times, I decided to cancel my Anthropic subscription and just stick to Gemini.
- wcarss 1y agoGoogle has killed so many amazing businesses -- entire industries, even, by giving people something expensive for free until the competition dies, and then they enshittify hard. It's cool to have access to it, but please be careful not to mistake corporate loss leaders for authentic products.
- JPKab 1y agoTrue. They are ONLY good when they have competition. The sense of complacency that creeps in is so obvious as a customer. To this day, the Google Home (or is it called Nest now?) speaker is the only physical product i've ever owned where it lost features over time. I used to be able to play the audio of a Youtube video (like a podcast) through it, but then Google decided that it was very very important that I only be able to play a Youtube video through a device with a screen, because it is imperative that I see a still image when I play a longform history podcast. Obviously, this is a silly and highly specific example, but it is emblematic of how they neglect or enshittify massive swathes of their products as soon as the executive team loses interest and puts their A team on some shiny new object.
- bitpush 1y agoThe experience on Sonos is terrible. There are countless examples of people sinking 1000s of dollars into Sonos ecosystem, and the new app update has rendered them useless.
- nl 1y agoIt's mostly fixed now (5 room Sonos setup here). It's also a lot better at not dropping speakers off its network
- fsndz 1y agoMore and more people are coming to the realisation that Google is actually winning at the model level right now.
- zaphirplane 1y agoWhat’s with the Google cheer squad in this thread, usually it’s Google lost its way and is evil. Can’t be employees cause usually there is a disclaimer
- pjerem 1y agoGoogle can be evil and release impressive language models. The same way as Apple releasing incredible hardware with good privacy while also being a totally insufferable and arrogant company.
- crowbahr 1y agoGoogle employees only have to disclaimer when they're identified as Google employees. So shit like "as a googler" requires "my opinions are my own yadda yadda"
- bitpush 1y agoGemini 2.5 is genuinely impressive.
- brailsafe 1y agoIt's good to be aware of the likelihood of astroturfing. Everytime there's a newthread like this for one of the companies, there's a suspicious amount of similar plausible praise in an otherwise (sometimes brutally) skeptical forum. The best way to shift or create consensus is to make everyone think everyone else's opinion has already shifted, and that consensus is already there. Emperor's new clothes etc..
- orangesun 1y agoUntil they ditch it or make it ad-ridden like everything else.
- 1y ago
- m3kw9 1y agoUsing Claude code and Codex CLI and then Aider with Gemini 2.5 pro, Aider is much faster because you feed in the files instead of using tools to start doing all kinds of whole know what spending 10x the tokens. I tried a relatively simple refactor which needed around 7 files changed, only Aider with 2.5 got it and in the first shot. Where as both Codex and Claude code completely fumbled it
- goshx 1y agoSame here! It is borderline stubborn at times and I need to prove it wrong. Still, it is the best model to use with Cursor, in my experience.
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- teleforce 1y ago>obsequious Thanks for the new word, I have to look it up. "obedient or attentive to an excessive or servile degree" Apparently it means an AI that mindlessly follow your logic and instructions without reasoning and articulation is not good enough.
- nemomarx 1y agoI think here it's referring to a common problem where the AI agrees with your position too easily, and/or changes it's answer if you tell it the answer is wrong instantly (therefore providing no stable true answer if you asked it something about a fact)? Also the slightly over cheery tone maybe.
- lylah69 1y agoI like to do this with Claude. It takes 5 back & forths to get an uncertain answer. Is there a way to tackle this?
- zoogeny 1y agoIt's a bit of a fancy way to say "yes man". Like in corporations or politics, if a leader surrounds themselves with "yes men". A synonym would be sycophantic which would be "behaving or done in an obsequious way in order to gain advantage." The connotation is the other party misrepresents their own opinion in order to gain favor or avoid disapproval from someone of a higher status. Like when a subordinate tries to guess what their superior wants to hear instead of providing an unbiased response. I think that accurately describes my experience with some LLMs due to heavy handed RLHF towards agreeableness. In fact, I think obsequious is a better word since it doesn't have the cynical connotation of sycophant. LLMs don't have a motive and obsequious describes the behavior without specifying the intent.
- klondike_klive 1y agoThe only reason I know the meaning of both words is because they occur in the lyrics of the Motorhead song "Orgasmatron"
- 1y ago
- UltraSane 1y agoI had a very interesting long debate/discussion with Gemini 2.5 Pro about the Synapse-Evolve bank debacle among other things. It really feels like debating a very knowledgeable and smart human.
- rat9988 1y agoYou didn't have a debate, you just researched a question.
- zoogeny 1y agoOne mans debate is another mans research.
- rat9988 1y agoIndeed, but a research isn't necessarily a debate. In this case, it was not.
- UltraSane 1y agoAll right Mr. Pednatic. Very complex linear algebra created a very convincing illusion of a debate. You happy now? But good LLMs will take a position and push back at your arguments.
- jofzar 1y agoMy work doesn't have access to 2.5 pro and all these posts are just making me want it so much more. I hate how slow things are sometimes.
- basch 1y agoCan’t you just go into aistudio with any free gmail account?
- sciurus 1y agoFor many workplaces, it's not just that that don't pay for a service, it's that using it is against policy. If I tried to paste some code into ChatGPT, for example, our data loss prevention spyware would block it and I'd soon be having an uncomfortable conversation with our security team. (We do have access to GitHub Copilot)
- Anna234 1y ago[dead]
- Atotalnoob 1y agoGood news then, your GitHub admins can enable Gemini for you without issue.
- d1sxeyes 1y ago“Without issue” is an optimistic perspective on how this works in many organisations.
- i_love_retros 1y agoWhy is it free / so cheap (I seem to be getting charged a few cents a day using it with aider so not free but still crazy cheap compared to sonnet)
- brendanfinan 1y agowe know how Google makes money
- d1sxeyes 1y agoGive it a few months and it will ignore all your questions and just ask if you’ve watched Rampart.
- disgruntledphd2 1y agoTo be fair, Google do have a cost advantage here as they've built their own hardware.
- redox99 1y agoI've had many disappointing results with gemini 2.5 pro. For general queries possibly involving search, chatgpt and grok work better for me. For code, gemini is very buggy in cursor, so I use Claude 3.7. But it might be partly cursor's fault.
- rgoulter 1y agoThe 1 million token context window also means you can just copy/paste so much source code or log output.
- crossroadsguy 1y agoOne difference, and imho that’s a big difference — you can’t use any of the Google’s chatbots/models without being logged in, unlike chatgpt.
- casey2 1y agoIt's a big deal, but not in the way that you think. A race to the bottom is humanities best defense against fast takeoff.
- instagraham 1y agoobsequious is such a nice word for this context, only possible in the AI age. i'd find the same word improper to describe human beings - other words like plaintive, obedient and compliant often do the job better and are less obscure. here it feels like a word whose time has come.
- _blk 1y agoHave you tried Grok 3? It's a bit verbose for my taste even when prompted to be brief but answers seem better/more researched and less opinionated. It's also more willing to answer questions where the other models block an answer.
- fuzzylightbulb 1y agoA lot of people don't want to patronize the businesses of an unabashed Nazi sympathizer. There are more important things in life than model output quality.
- _blk 1y agoAwesome. Very mature. Moral supremacist
- zoogeny 1y agoI have not tried any of the Grok models but that is probably because I am rarely on X. I have to admit I have a bias where I think Google is "business" while Grok is for lols. But I should probably take the time to asses it since I would prefer to have an opinion based on experience rather than vibes.
- _blk 1y agoHehe, Google used to be cool when I studied but now it's just advertising and zero customer contact. But sure, business (or maybe big corp) fits now where it used to be more of a startup enterprise back in the late 2000. We worked with them on a project in 2018 and given the hard hiring processes they at least used to have, I was surprised to find that even inexperienced interns did better than what we got back. I'm sure it was a one-off case but the after-taste is still bitter. On the Grok side, I think of Tesla self driving. They've been doing AI for a long time. I used to own one and they never got to what they promised (self driving by the end of 2019) but it was really good for my taste. I still think of it as the best car I ever owned even though I went back to a gas guzzler when moving to the US. But hey, only 13mpg and it still uses less electricity than a Tesla;)
- MetaWhirledPeas 1y ago> 100% of my casual AI usage is now in Gemini and I look forward to asking it questions on deep topics because it consistently provides me with insight. It's probably great for lots of things but it doesn't seem very good for recent news. I asked it about recent accusations around xAI and methane gas turbines and it had no clue what I was talking about. I asked the same question to Grok and it gave me all sorts of details.
- ramesh31 1y ago>It's probably great for lots of things but it doesn't seem very good for recent news. You are missing the point here. The LLM is just the “reasoning engine” for agents now. Its corpus of facts are meaningless, and shouldn’t really be relied upon for anything. But in conjunction with a tool calling agentic process, with access to the web, what you described is now trivially doable. Single shot LLM usage is not really anything anyone should be doing anymore.
- darksaints 1y agoThat’s all fine and dandy, but if you google anything related to llm agents, you get 1000 answers to 100 questions, companies hawking their new “visual programming” agent composers, and a ton of videos of douchebags trying to be the Steve Jobs of AI. The concept I’m sure is fine, but execution of agentic anything is still the Wild Wild West and nobody knows what they’re really doing.
- ramesh31 1y agoIndeed there is a mountain of snake oil out there at this point, but the underlying concepts are extremely simple, and can be implemented directly without frameworks. I generally point people to Anthropic's seminal blog post on the topic: https://www.anthropic.com/engineering/building-effective-agents https://www.anthropic.com/engineering/building-effective-age...
- MetaWhirledPeas 1y ago> You are missing the point here. I'm just discussing the GP's topic of casual use. Casual use implies heading over to an already-hosted prompt and typing in questions. Implementing my own 'agentic process' does not sound very casual to me.
- thebiggening 1y agoTremendous spam. Just wonderful. Comments too.