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Well, the per-capita GDP of the poorest U.S. state — Mississippi — is greater than that of the U.K., France, Italy, Greece, Spain, Poland and many others, and w

Well, the per-capita GDP of the poorest U.S. state — Mississippi — is greater than that of the U.K., France, Italy, Greece, Spain, Poland and many others, and within 10% of Finland, Germany, Belgium and Austria. 34 of the 47 European states have lower per-capita GDPs than Mississippi. The median per-capita U.S. state GDP is $78,649; the median per-capita European state GDP is $28,713. Sources: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_and_territories_by_GDP https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_and_territ... and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states_in_Europe_by_GDP_(nominal)_per_capita https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states_in_Eu...

kzrdude 2y ago
We have to ask ourselves what we want. Because it's not GDP, you can't eat GDP or sleep under it, you can't even withdraw it from the bank. So more directly, how does it influence our life? (Of course GDP influences our life to some extent.)
- heresie-dabord 2y ago
  It is generally understood that GDP is a poor measure of what matters to people. The OP should know this. https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/quality-of-life-by-state https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/quality-of-...
  - pc86 2y ago
    It may be generally understood to you, but not to me, and the link you provided says absolutely nothing about GDP.
    - forgetfreeman 2y ago
      Not a problem, let's educate you a little. When graphed together GDP growth and real wages in the US show a disparity that clearly indicates that increases in GDP go somewhere other than working Americans. This being the case GDP metrics don't communicate meaningful information about quality of life. https://www.epi.org/productivity-pay-gap/ https://www.epi.org/productivity-pay-gap/
      - AlexandrB 2y ago
        While increases in GDP don't all go to working class Americans, the two are not completely decoupled either. If you look at the small-scale variations in both they match each other pretty closely. I also suspect that it's the working class that would eat any dramatic GDP decrease.
        forgetfreeman 2y ago
        We can at least agree that the working class would be on the receiving end of the worst of the consequences for any flavor of economic downsizing, just like they have been during every other recession, market crash, etc. to date. I would however like to suggest not letting yourself get distracted by the fact that the two lines kinda wiggle similarly. That massive and growing pie slice where the two decoupled is absolutely the larger issue.
- throwawayffffas 2y ago
  I mean you can eat GDP and sleep under it. That's what it measures production.
  - bognition 2y ago
    Estimated GDP in 2024 28.9 T vs 2025 of 13.3 T That’s a huge gain in 20 years. Where is the commensurate equivalent growth in housing, education, healthcare, cheap food, etc… There is a huge disconnect between GDP increase and the economic pressure the majority of Americans feel.
    - TheSpiceIsLife 2y ago
      Looks like that should be 13 T 2005?
    - throwawayffffas 2y ago
      The richest man in the world in 2008 was Warren Buffett with a net worth of 62 billion dollars. Now with 62 billion you are not even in the top 20. So the growth went into wealth inequality.
      - pbhjpbhj 2y ago
        You see the contradiction between this and your previous post? Here you say we can't eat/shelter better with GDP increases because they aren't distributed; there you said that [spending on] ability to eat/shelter was what they measured.
- bko 2y ago
  Take pretty much any quality of life thing. Just as one example Mississippi: The average home size 2,065 square feet United Kingdom: The average home size is 818 square feet No, you cannot "eat GDP", but its a useful proxy as it correlates very highly to a lot of things we do care about
  - ropejumper 2y ago
    This requires a justification for why home size is a good indicator of quality of life, or for why it's more important than other indicators.
    - AmVess 2y ago
      Small homes just plain suck. No room to do anything, stuffy, cramped. GF and I moved, rented a house for a month. 1400 square feet. 700 up, 700 down. Tiny and cramped, and it only had one very small bathroom. We had to sleep on different floors. Master bedroom was barely larger than the queen bed, and no way 2 people could sleep in there because it would get blazing hot in minutes. Garage was similarly minuscule. GF had a tiny suv and still couldn't open both doors. I figure 1000 square feet per adult is just about right.
      - tjridesbikes 2y ago
        What are you on about? My wife and I live in a total of 1000 square feet in a Boston triple-decker and get along totally fine. We have a basement for storage and a parking space for our car. Somehow, we're both able to work from home without getting in each other's way, have space to do our own things, and temperature regulation is a non-issue with mini-splits. We even have a shared yard! Maybe the space wasn't laid out well. I would imagine, with only 700 sq ft per floor, a good portion of that is taken up by the stairs. My condo is a flat in a 100-year-old building, built before the "open concept" plans came into vogue. It means out rooms are separated and lets my wife and I do different things in different parts of the house. People used to raise families in these old buildings with 1000 square feet. Their third-spaces weren't taken over by profit-seeking companies and their interests took them outside the home. 2000 square feet for 2 people seems utterly ridiculous!
- tguinot 2y ago
  You also have to ask yourself why so many europeans try to move to the US for a better life (especially talented ones) and why almost no american does it the other way around. (The number is ridiculously low in comparison) People move east to west across the pond, because they want the life offered by the US economy.
  - hollerith 2y ago
    >The number is ridiculously low in comparison Where are you getting your confidence that that is so?
    - tguinot 2y ago
      Numbers of H1B applicants per country are available. The equivalent for the UK and France is also available. If you believe there's nearly as many people trying to get out than there is trying to get in, you will be surprised. The difference (per capita) is a factor of at least 10x
  - sebazzz 2y ago
    > You also have to ask yourself why so many europeans try to move to the US for a better life I can guarantee you that number is now not growing so much.
pavel_lishin 2y ago
And is the average Mississippian better off than the average citizen of UK, France, Italy, etc..?
- rvnx 2y ago
  https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=jackson+Mississippi https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=jackson+Mississ... Interesting, there seem to be a consensus about it.
xnickb 2y ago
How is GDP per-capita related to the customers having any rights?
- michaelt 2y ago
  Some people think deregulation equals productivity equals prosperity. Sure, America has the most school shootings and medical bankruptcies. But they also have the biggest houses, the biggest cars and the most private swimming pools per capita.
IsTom 2y ago
> Poland I don't know much about others, but perhaps you should be comparing ratio of GDP in the last 20 years, not absolute values. With Poland coming very poor out of communism and all.
- TheSpiceIsLife 2y ago
  Communism ended in Poland 35 years ago (1989). That's one or two generations ago. That's long enough for everyone aged about 50 in 1989 to have aged out of the system. How many decades should pass before we stop blaming present circumstances on the past?
  - IsTom 2y ago
    It takes time to create an economy. Even with consistent 5% yoy growth that's a few decades to catch up when you're starting with a few times less GDP per capita.
chillingeffect 2y ago
Mississippi is the chronic showcase of american wealth inequality. Mississippi has the lowest life expectancy in the U.S. (about 73 years), significantly lower than the national average (77). Mississippi has the lowest median household income in the U.S. (about $52,000 in 2022), compared to a U.S. median of around $75,000. Mississippi has high rates of obesity, diabetes, and preventable diseases, partly due to poor healthcare access. France and Italy have top-tier universal healthcare, while the UK's NHS, despite challenges, still provides free-at-point-of-use care. In Mississippi, many rely on Medicaid or have limited healthcare options. Mississippi’s school system ranks among the worst in the U.S. European countries have stronger public education systems and more government support for higher education.
- throwaway73750 2y ago
  [dead]
  - _Algernon_ 2y ago
    >> France and Italy have top-tier universal healthcare >According to what parameters? For what it's worth both seem to rank lower than the US according to the OECD.[2] That would be surprising, since the US doesn't have universal health care.
  - Aeolun 2y ago
    > According to what parameters? That it’s actually usable? Great healthcare is pointless if you cannot afford to go to the doctor. > 88% of the adult population (age over 18) in Missisipi has attained at least a High School degree. [3] Sure, but what standard of high school degree?
    - throwaway73750 2y ago
      > That it’s actually usable? Great healthcare is pointless if you cannot afford to go to the doctor. And yet Americans seem to survive more often with a healthcare they supposedly do not use than Italians and Frenchmen with a healthcare they use. > Sure, but what standard of high school degree? Surely you aren't implying that the standards of an American HS degree are so low that the education that that huge percentage of the population with a middle school degree or lower is receiving is comparable to it?
Loughla 2y ago
GDP is a trash measure of what life is actually like. It should go away.
- xnickb 2y ago
  If they at least cited PPP I'd maybe buy their argument..
redserk 2y ago
Strictly looking at GDP is a terrible way to compare economic conditions between US states and countries. GDP of Mississippi looks great only because of a strong dollar. It doesn’t really account for living conditions.
- nerdponx 2y ago
  It's great if you are a wealthy business owner or investor, and you want to push deregulation propaganda, because deregulation would allow you to get even richer.
cool_dude85 2y ago
How do US state GDP per-capitas compare to the GDP per-capita of Ireland? And if this comparison is not meaningful or relevant, what does that say about the choice of metric you made?
analog31 2y ago
It means that GDP doesn't buy prosperity. We've been told for decades that letting our economy turn out like Europe's was something to fear, while they outpaced us in virtually all quality of life measures. We can no longer claim being the richest country in the world as a source of uniqueness or justification -- handed to us by the gods. I think this is part of the reason for the present descent into authoritarianism.
- nielsbot 2y ago
  the descent into authoritarianism is a result of the failure of neo-liberals to represent the working class. unfortunately the wealthy are going to concede more wealth and power or it will continue.
  - h2zizzle 2y ago
    To finish the story here, a look back: https://bsalert.com/news/2596/Who_Are_You_Better_Than.html https://bsalert.com/news/2596/Who_Are_You_Better_Than.html People in this country perennially choose wanting to be "better than" over wanting to be happy.
    - nielsbot 2y ago
      Working class solidarity is the only solution. I recently realized that people should understand they have more in common with (and must have solidarity with) the next people down on the socio-economic rung instead of trying to climb the ladder in hopes of joining those on the next rung up.
      - h2zizzle 2y ago
        It will never happen, especially with the racialized nature of that socioeconomic ladder. The country that generates downvotes on a post recognizing the similarities between BLM/Floyd Protests and the Euromaidan (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43389979 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43389979) could never.
rezonant 2y ago
I'm sure the GDP evenly distributes amongst the population right? It's not like the US has massive wealth disparity or anything that could massively affect the implications of a simple per capita GDP comparison.
InDubioProRubio 2y ago
And that GDP is one guy.. if you take him out of the state though, it gets dark pretty fast.. people dont vote for a return of monarchy if things are going well.
grafmax 2y ago
Mississippi has much higher rates of infant mortality, poverty, preventable deaths, and lower overall education levels than most of the EU. Economic output fails to capture the degree to which the economy serves its people. While average GDP sounds like it’s something that everyone participates in, in reality, under capitalism wealth and income follow a Pareto distribution. As a result, GDP per capita tells us more about total output than about how it is actually distributed among the population, who is benefiting, and thus the well being of the society as a whole.
- TheSpiceIsLife 2y ago
  > under capitalism wealth and income follow a Pareto distribution. And under the other forms of government thus far tried? Anyway, Capitalism doesn't explain wealth inequality. The ability to accumulate capital and apply it to industry with limited liability doesn't inherently cause wealth inequality. That's the fault of Greedism, Over-inflated-sense-of-selfism, and Giving Money to Politicians is like giving Whiskey and Car Keys to Teenage Boys-ism. We're over taxed and over regulated, that's nothing to do with Capitalism.
  - chabes 2y ago
    Capitalism isn’t a form of government. It’s an economic system. Politicized, sure.
    - immibis 2y ago
      Politics and economics are the same word.
      - chabes 2y ago
        They literally are not
  - grafmax 2y ago
    Wealth inequality isn’t simply a side effect of capitalism—it’s structurally necessary thanks to the division of society into two classes, capitalists and workers. I do agree that a capitalist economic system isn’t alone in manifesting inequality. I would further acknowledge that under capitalism the amount of wealth inequality differs from one capitalist society to the other. Yet the present levels of inequality we see around us are nearly unprecedented. You blame greed. But capitalism enshrines the profit motive. It incentivizes capitalists to maximize profit regardless of the effect on the working class even if that means bribing politicians or whatever. Greed is a central feature of capitalism, not some personal failing to be explained at the individual level. Meanwhile, neoliberal deregulation has been enacted for the last 45 years. What are the effects of this? Real working-class wages have remained stagnant while the wealth gap has drastically increased. Should we believe the answer is more deregulation? Under a deregulation ideology, the wealthy push for deregulation when it suits them on the one hand while benefiting from and expanding government influence on the other (subsidies, bailouts, regulatory capture, etc.). That’s why after 45 years of a deregulatory ideology operating at the highest levels of our governments, subsidies and regulatory capture still exist. Consider the present moment. Elon Musk slashes government spending while receiving millions from the federal government. This is not a bug. It’s a central feature of this ideology. We may have different members of the upper class at the wheel now, but they are still using the same siren’s call of deregulation to justify their policies, ostentatiously reducing government influence in some areas while tactically expanding it in others - not just handouts to Trump’s cronies but also expansion of executive powers and erosion of civil liberties.
hammock 2y ago
GDP per capita of Ireland is double that of the UK? Is that because of the tax dodge thing? When did that happen?
- padjo 2y ago
  We get touchy if you call it a tax dodge but yes it’s generally not considered an accurate measure of wealth in Ireland. Modified GNI is the term used for the adjusted number.
999900000999 2y ago
Maternal death rate in Mississippi, 36 per 100k https://mississippitoday.org/2023/01/26/maternal-mortality-rate-worsens/ https://mississippitoday.org/2023/01/26/maternal-mortality-r... In Greece , 8 per 100k https://genderdata.worldbank.org/en/economies/greece https://genderdata.worldbank.org/en/economies/greece That's just a random health stat, but it's clear the Greek have a far healthier population. But Mississippi has more millionaires so I guess it's fine.
- bko 2y ago
  Great, it's 8.3 in Albania. Doesn't really help you if you're a typical person making less than 10k a year
- pc86 2y ago
  I have to imagine you cherry-picked maternal death rate (which is anomalously high in the US for reasons that even experts in maternal death cannot explain) in bad faith because the all-cause mortality rate in the US is 1,044 per 100k compared to 1,412 per 100k in Greece - 35% higher[0]. I guess it's not so clear. [0] https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/death-rate-by-country https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/death-rat...
  - 999900000999 2y ago
    Life expectancy in Mississippi is 10 years shorter than in Greece >Mississippi ranked dead last in a CDC ranking of all 50 states and the District of Columbia when looking at 2021 data. The magnolia state had a 70.9-year life expectancy rate, slightly lower than West Virginia's 71. https://www.clarionledger.com/story/news/2024/12/29/cdc-data-mississippi-worst-us-life-expectancy-why-where-people-live-longest/77264058007/ https://www.clarionledger.com/story/news/2024/12/29/cdc-data... >The current life expectancy for Greece in 2025 is 83.10 years, a 0.18% increase from 2024. The life expectancy for Greece in 2024 was 82.95 years, a 0.18% increase from 2023. The life expectancy for Greece in 2023 was 82.80 years, a 0.2% increase from 2022. The life expectancy for Greece in 2022 was 82.64 years, a 0.2% increase from 2021. https://www.macrotrends.net/global-metrics/countries/grc/greece/life-expectancy https://www.macrotrends.net/global-metrics/countries/grc/gre... Greece has a older population. Plus we're talking about Mississippi not the entire US.
nathan_compton 2y ago
Yeah, but have you been to Mississippi?
micromacrofoot 2y ago
you would not be making this comparison if you've spent time in mississippi
Aeolun 2y ago
Per capita GDP is a bad measure when so much of it is captured by the 1%
_Algernon_ 2y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goodhart%27s_law https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goodhart%27s_law
Hikikomori 2y ago
Thanks for being a great example of what this person wrote https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43385268#43387809 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43385268#43387809
oa335 2y ago
I’d wager that the median European is happier and healthier than the median Mississippian.
h2zizzle 2y ago
Mississippi is perhaps a poor example to use, as its wealth is highly concentrated, as well as segregated along racial lines. It houses some very affluent communities and also some with open sewers or no public utilities at all, and a state house entirely unconcerned about reconciling the two because it's been gerrymandered to hell in order to prevent the ethnic group that makes up nearly 40% of its population from having anywhere near commensurate representation.
thinkingtoilet 2y ago
Ok. Now compare Mississippi to those places on wealth inequality, life expectancy, education, health care, social mobility, etc...
jandrese 2y ago
Beyond what everybody else has said, I wonder how much of that difference is due to the healthcare in Mississippi being counted as part of GDP instead of as a state service? Ever ballooning healthcare costs are the cancer that is eating the developed world alive.
barbazoo 2y ago
And who cares about that? GDP is not a good indicator about people’s quality of life. Maybe of the top 0.1%.
myrmidon 2y ago
A significantly better metric to compare would be median hourly wage (ideally, purchasing power adjusted, but that's hard). The US average is actually behind wealthier European nations there (Ireland, Scandinavia, Benelux, Switzerland, Germany): 20$/h compared to ~20€/h. Purchasing power adjustments would also probably favor Europe I guess. So the much stronger US GDP/capita output apparently does very little for the average citizen... This was honestly surprising to me, I actually expected the US to be comfortably ahead in this (specifically significantly ahead of Germany). France is also much weaker than I expected in this (~17€/h) not including it was cherry-picking on my part, Eastern Europe is super poor (Bulgaria under 5€/hour!), and the top contenders were unsurprising, except maybe how well Denmark did (~30€/h). Sources: eurostat + statista (because couldn't find what I wanted on bls.gov)
- AlexandrB 2y ago
  > Purchasing power adjustments would also probably favor Europe I guess. I doubt it. Germany and especially Switzerland have a quite hight cost of living. Coming from Canada, I get sticker shock every time I go to the US because of how cheap everything is. I had the opposite reaction going to Europe (except for Italy). It would also be interesting to compare take-home (after tax) pay.
  - myrmidon 2y ago
    You are 100% right about Switzerland (but its so far ahead that adjustments would not matter too much), for the others its probably barely double digit percentage adjustments. My personal experience is that German supermarkets are priced extremely competitive (Lidl/Aldi specifically), and Italy felt more expensive by comparison to me (except maybe for local produce and cheese). Comparing after-tax pay instead would help the US pull ahead for sure, but I feel a bit mixed about that because those taxes pay for stuff like child- and healthcare, which in the US is probably significantly more expensive out-of-pocket than the median EU citizens pays in taxes for the same.
arwhatever 2y ago
Notwithstanding the other comments about the effect GDP per capita might or might not have on individuals, how much of this GDP difference is driven by the strength or weakness of consumer protections within a given economy? Is higher GDP per capita truly a strong argument against consumer protections?
s_dev 2y ago
The fact that Mississipi and Bavaria Germany have the same GDP per capita tells you a lot about GDP.

kzrdude 2y ago

We have to ask ourselves what we want. Because it's not GDP, you can't eat GDP or sleep under it, you can't even withdraw it from the bank. So more directly, how does it influence our life? (Of course GDP influences our life to some extent.)

heresie-dabord 2y ago
It is generally understood that GDP is a poor measure of what matters to people. The OP should know this. https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/quality-of-life-by-state https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/quality-of-...
- pc86 2y ago
  It may be generally understood to you, but not to me, and the link you provided says absolutely nothing about GDP.
  - forgetfreeman 2y ago
    Not a problem, let's educate you a little. When graphed together GDP growth and real wages in the US show a disparity that clearly indicates that increases in GDP go somewhere other than working Americans. This being the case GDP metrics don't communicate meaningful information about quality of life. https://www.epi.org/productivity-pay-gap/ https://www.epi.org/productivity-pay-gap/
    - AlexandrB 2y ago
      While increases in GDP don't all go to working class Americans, the two are not completely decoupled either. If you look at the small-scale variations in both they match each other pretty closely. I also suspect that it's the working class that would eat any dramatic GDP decrease.
      - forgetfreeman 2y ago
        We can at least agree that the working class would be on the receiving end of the worst of the consequences for any flavor of economic downsizing, just like they have been during every other recession, market crash, etc. to date. I would however like to suggest not letting yourself get distracted by the fact that the two lines kinda wiggle similarly. That massive and growing pie slice where the two decoupled is absolutely the larger issue.
throwawayffffas 2y ago
I mean you can eat GDP and sleep under it. That's what it measures production.
- bognition 2y ago
  Estimated GDP in 2024 28.9 T vs 2025 of 13.3 T That’s a huge gain in 20 years. Where is the commensurate equivalent growth in housing, education, healthcare, cheap food, etc… There is a huge disconnect between GDP increase and the economic pressure the majority of Americans feel.
  - TheSpiceIsLife 2y ago
    Looks like that should be 13 T 2005?
  - throwawayffffas 2y ago
    The richest man in the world in 2008 was Warren Buffett with a net worth of 62 billion dollars. Now with 62 billion you are not even in the top 20. So the growth went into wealth inequality.
    - pbhjpbhj 2y ago
      You see the contradiction between this and your previous post? Here you say we can't eat/shelter better with GDP increases because they aren't distributed; there you said that [spending on] ability to eat/shelter was what they measured.
bko 2y ago
Take pretty much any quality of life thing. Just as one example Mississippi: The average home size 2,065 square feet United Kingdom: The average home size is 818 square feet No, you cannot "eat GDP", but its a useful proxy as it correlates very highly to a lot of things we do care about
- ropejumper 2y ago
  This requires a justification for why home size is a good indicator of quality of life, or for why it's more important than other indicators.
  - AmVess 2y ago
    Small homes just plain suck. No room to do anything, stuffy, cramped. GF and I moved, rented a house for a month. 1400 square feet. 700 up, 700 down. Tiny and cramped, and it only had one very small bathroom. We had to sleep on different floors. Master bedroom was barely larger than the queen bed, and no way 2 people could sleep in there because it would get blazing hot in minutes. Garage was similarly minuscule. GF had a tiny suv and still couldn't open both doors. I figure 1000 square feet per adult is just about right.
    - tjridesbikes 2y ago
      What are you on about? My wife and I live in a total of 1000 square feet in a Boston triple-decker and get along totally fine. We have a basement for storage and a parking space for our car. Somehow, we're both able to work from home without getting in each other's way, have space to do our own things, and temperature regulation is a non-issue with mini-splits. We even have a shared yard! Maybe the space wasn't laid out well. I would imagine, with only 700 sq ft per floor, a good portion of that is taken up by the stairs. My condo is a flat in a 100-year-old building, built before the "open concept" plans came into vogue. It means out rooms are separated and lets my wife and I do different things in different parts of the house. People used to raise families in these old buildings with 1000 square feet. Their third-spaces weren't taken over by profit-seeking companies and their interests took them outside the home. 2000 square feet for 2 people seems utterly ridiculous!
tguinot 2y ago
You also have to ask yourself why so many europeans try to move to the US for a better life (especially talented ones) and why almost no american does it the other way around. (The number is ridiculously low in comparison) People move east to west across the pond, because they want the life offered by the US economy.
- hollerith 2y ago
  >The number is ridiculously low in comparison Where are you getting your confidence that that is so?
  - tguinot 2y ago
    Numbers of H1B applicants per country are available. The equivalent for the UK and France is also available. If you believe there's nearly as many people trying to get out than there is trying to get in, you will be surprised. The difference (per capita) is a factor of at least 10x
- sebazzz 2y ago
  > You also have to ask yourself why so many europeans try to move to the US for a better life I can guarantee you that number is now not growing so much.

pavel_lishin 2y ago

And is the average Mississippian better off than the average citizen of UK, France, Italy, etc..?

rvnx 2y ago
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=jackson+Mississippi https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=jackson+Mississ... Interesting, there seem to be a consensus about it.

xnickb 2y ago

How is GDP per-capita related to the customers having any rights?

michaelt 2y ago
Some people think deregulation equals productivity equals prosperity. Sure, America has the most school shootings and medical bankruptcies. But they also have the biggest houses, the biggest cars and the most private swimming pools per capita.

IsTom 2y ago

> Poland I don't know much about others, but perhaps you should be comparing ratio of GDP in the last 20 years, not absolute values. With Poland coming very poor out of communism and all.

TheSpiceIsLife 2y ago
Communism ended in Poland 35 years ago (1989). That's one or two generations ago. That's long enough for everyone aged about 50 in 1989 to have aged out of the system. How many decades should pass before we stop blaming present circumstances on the past?
- IsTom 2y ago
  It takes time to create an economy. Even with consistent 5% yoy growth that's a few decades to catch up when you're starting with a few times less GDP per capita.

chillingeffect 2y ago

Mississippi is the chronic showcase of american wealth inequality. Mississippi has the lowest life expectancy in the U.S. (about 73 years), significantly lower than the national average (77). Mississippi has the lowest median household income in the U.S. (about $52,000 in 2022), compared to a U.S. median of around $75,000. Mississippi has high rates of obesity, diabetes, and preventable diseases, partly due to poor healthcare access. France and Italy have top-tier universal healthcare, while the UK's NHS, despite challenges, still provides free-at-point-of-use care. In Mississippi, many rely on Medicaid or have limited healthcare options. Mississippi’s school system ranks among the worst in the U.S. European countries have stronger public education systems and more government support for higher education.

throwaway73750 2y ago
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- _Algernon_ 2y ago
  >> France and Italy have top-tier universal healthcare >According to what parameters? For what it's worth both seem to rank lower than the US according to the OECD.[2] That would be surprising, since the US doesn't have universal health care.
- Aeolun 2y ago
  > According to what parameters? That it’s actually usable? Great healthcare is pointless if you cannot afford to go to the doctor. > 88% of the adult population (age over 18) in Missisipi has attained at least a High School degree. [3] Sure, but what standard of high school degree?
  - throwaway73750 2y ago
    > That it’s actually usable? Great healthcare is pointless if you cannot afford to go to the doctor. And yet Americans seem to survive more often with a healthcare they supposedly do not use than Italians and Frenchmen with a healthcare they use. > Sure, but what standard of high school degree? Surely you aren't implying that the standards of an American HS degree are so low that the education that that huge percentage of the population with a middle school degree or lower is receiving is comparable to it?

Loughla 2y ago

GDP is a trash measure of what life is actually like. It should go away.

xnickb 2y ago
If they at least cited PPP I'd maybe buy their argument..

redserk 2y ago

Strictly looking at GDP is a terrible way to compare economic conditions between US states and countries. GDP of Mississippi looks great only because of a strong dollar. It doesn’t really account for living conditions.

nerdponx 2y ago
It's great if you are a wealthy business owner or investor, and you want to push deregulation propaganda, because deregulation would allow you to get even richer.

cool_dude85 2y ago

How do US state GDP per-capitas compare to the GDP per-capita of Ireland? And if this comparison is not meaningful or relevant, what does that say about the choice of metric you made?

analog31 2y ago

It means that GDP doesn't buy prosperity. We've been told for decades that letting our economy turn out like Europe's was something to fear, while they outpaced us in virtually all quality of life measures. We can no longer claim being the richest country in the world as a source of uniqueness or justification -- handed to us by the gods. I think this is part of the reason for the present descent into authoritarianism.

nielsbot 2y ago
the descent into authoritarianism is a result of the failure of neo-liberals to represent the working class. unfortunately the wealthy are going to concede more wealth and power or it will continue.
- h2zizzle 2y ago
  To finish the story here, a look back: https://bsalert.com/news/2596/Who_Are_You_Better_Than.html https://bsalert.com/news/2596/Who_Are_You_Better_Than.html People in this country perennially choose wanting to be "better than" over wanting to be happy.
  - nielsbot 2y ago
    Working class solidarity is the only solution. I recently realized that people should understand they have more in common with (and must have solidarity with) the next people down on the socio-economic rung instead of trying to climb the ladder in hopes of joining those on the next rung up.
    - h2zizzle 2y ago
      It will never happen, especially with the racialized nature of that socioeconomic ladder. The country that generates downvotes on a post recognizing the similarities between BLM/Floyd Protests and the Euromaidan (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43389979 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43389979) could never.

rezonant 2y ago

I'm sure the GDP evenly distributes amongst the population right? It's not like the US has massive wealth disparity or anything that could massively affect the implications of a simple per capita GDP comparison.

InDubioProRubio 2y ago

And that GDP is one guy.. if you take him out of the state though, it gets dark pretty fast.. people dont vote for a return of monarchy if things are going well.

grafmax 2y ago

Mississippi has much higher rates of infant mortality, poverty, preventable deaths, and lower overall education levels than most of the EU. Economic output fails to capture the degree to which the economy serves its people. While average GDP sounds like it’s something that everyone participates in, in reality, under capitalism wealth and income follow a Pareto distribution. As a result, GDP per capita tells us more about total output than about how it is actually distributed among the population, who is benefiting, and thus the well being of the society as a whole.

TheSpiceIsLife 2y ago
> under capitalism wealth and income follow a Pareto distribution. And under the other forms of government thus far tried? Anyway, Capitalism doesn't explain wealth inequality. The ability to accumulate capital and apply it to industry with limited liability doesn't inherently cause wealth inequality. That's the fault of Greedism, Over-inflated-sense-of-selfism, and Giving Money to Politicians is like giving Whiskey and Car Keys to Teenage Boys-ism. We're over taxed and over regulated, that's nothing to do with Capitalism.
- chabes 2y ago
  Capitalism isn’t a form of government. It’s an economic system. Politicized, sure.
  - immibis 2y ago
    Politics and economics are the same word.
    - chabes 2y ago
      They literally are not
- grafmax 2y ago
  Wealth inequality isn’t simply a side effect of capitalism—it’s structurally necessary thanks to the division of society into two classes, capitalists and workers. I do agree that a capitalist economic system isn’t alone in manifesting inequality. I would further acknowledge that under capitalism the amount of wealth inequality differs from one capitalist society to the other. Yet the present levels of inequality we see around us are nearly unprecedented. You blame greed. But capitalism enshrines the profit motive. It incentivizes capitalists to maximize profit regardless of the effect on the working class even if that means bribing politicians or whatever. Greed is a central feature of capitalism, not some personal failing to be explained at the individual level. Meanwhile, neoliberal deregulation has been enacted for the last 45 years. What are the effects of this? Real working-class wages have remained stagnant while the wealth gap has drastically increased. Should we believe the answer is more deregulation? Under a deregulation ideology, the wealthy push for deregulation when it suits them on the one hand while benefiting from and expanding government influence on the other (subsidies, bailouts, regulatory capture, etc.). That’s why after 45 years of a deregulatory ideology operating at the highest levels of our governments, subsidies and regulatory capture still exist. Consider the present moment. Elon Musk slashes government spending while receiving millions from the federal government. This is not a bug. It’s a central feature of this ideology. We may have different members of the upper class at the wheel now, but they are still using the same siren’s call of deregulation to justify their policies, ostentatiously reducing government influence in some areas while tactically expanding it in others - not just handouts to Trump’s cronies but also expansion of executive powers and erosion of civil liberties.

hammock 2y ago

GDP per capita of Ireland is double that of the UK? Is that because of the tax dodge thing? When did that happen?

padjo 2y ago
We get touchy if you call it a tax dodge but yes it’s generally not considered an accurate measure of wealth in Ireland. Modified GNI is the term used for the adjusted number.

999900000999 2y ago

Maternal death rate in Mississippi, 36 per 100k https://mississippitoday.org/2023/01/26/maternal-mortality-rate-worsens/ https://mississippitoday.org/2023/01/26/maternal-mortality-r... In Greece , 8 per 100k https://genderdata.worldbank.org/en/economies/greece https://genderdata.worldbank.org/en/economies/greece That's just a random health stat, but it's clear the Greek have a far healthier population. But Mississippi has more millionaires so I guess it's fine.

bko 2y ago
Great, it's 8.3 in Albania. Doesn't really help you if you're a typical person making less than 10k a year
pc86 2y ago
I have to imagine you cherry-picked maternal death rate (which is anomalously high in the US for reasons that even experts in maternal death cannot explain) in bad faith because the all-cause mortality rate in the US is 1,044 per 100k compared to 1,412 per 100k in Greece - 35% higher[0]. I guess it's not so clear. [0] https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/death-rate-by-country https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/death-rat...
- 999900000999 2y ago
  Life expectancy in Mississippi is 10 years shorter than in Greece >Mississippi ranked dead last in a CDC ranking of all 50 states and the District of Columbia when looking at 2021 data. The magnolia state had a 70.9-year life expectancy rate, slightly lower than West Virginia's 71. https://www.clarionledger.com/story/news/2024/12/29/cdc-data-mississippi-worst-us-life-expectancy-why-where-people-live-longest/77264058007/ https://www.clarionledger.com/story/news/2024/12/29/cdc-data... >The current life expectancy for Greece in 2025 is 83.10 years, a 0.18% increase from 2024. The life expectancy for Greece in 2024 was 82.95 years, a 0.18% increase from 2023. The life expectancy for Greece in 2023 was 82.80 years, a 0.2% increase from 2022. The life expectancy for Greece in 2022 was 82.64 years, a 0.2% increase from 2021. https://www.macrotrends.net/global-metrics/countries/grc/greece/life-expectancy https://www.macrotrends.net/global-metrics/countries/grc/gre... Greece has a older population. Plus we're talking about Mississippi not the entire US.

nathan_compton 2y ago

Yeah, but have you been to Mississippi?

micromacrofoot 2y ago

you would not be making this comparison if you've spent time in mississippi

Aeolun 2y ago

Per capita GDP is a bad measure when so much of it is captured by the 1%

_Algernon_ 2y ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goodhart%27s_law https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goodhart%27s_law

Hikikomori 2y ago

Thanks for being a great example of what this person wrote https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43385268#43387809 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43385268#43387809

oa335 2y ago

I’d wager that the median European is happier and healthier than the median Mississippian.

h2zizzle 2y ago

Mississippi is perhaps a poor example to use, as its wealth is highly concentrated, as well as segregated along racial lines. It houses some very affluent communities and also some with open sewers or no public utilities at all, and a state house entirely unconcerned about reconciling the two because it's been gerrymandered to hell in order to prevent the ethnic group that makes up nearly 40% of its population from having anywhere near commensurate representation.

thinkingtoilet 2y ago

Ok. Now compare Mississippi to those places on wealth inequality, life expectancy, education, health care, social mobility, etc...

jandrese 2y ago

Beyond what everybody else has said, I wonder how much of that difference is due to the healthcare in Mississippi being counted as part of GDP instead of as a state service? Ever ballooning healthcare costs are the cancer that is eating the developed world alive.

barbazoo 2y ago

And who cares about that? GDP is not a good indicator about people’s quality of life. Maybe of the top 0.1%.

myrmidon 2y ago

A significantly better metric to compare would be median hourly wage (ideally, purchasing power adjusted, but that's hard). The US average is actually behind wealthier European nations there (Ireland, Scandinavia, Benelux, Switzerland, Germany): 20$/h compared to ~20€/h. Purchasing power adjustments would also probably favor Europe I guess. So the much stronger US GDP/capita output apparently does very little for the average citizen... This was honestly surprising to me, I actually expected the US to be comfortably ahead in this (specifically significantly ahead of Germany). France is also much weaker than I expected in this (~17€/h) not including it was cherry-picking on my part, Eastern Europe is super poor (Bulgaria under 5€/hour!), and the top contenders were unsurprising, except maybe how well Denmark did (~30€/h). Sources: eurostat + statista (because couldn't find what I wanted on bls.gov)

AlexandrB 2y ago
> Purchasing power adjustments would also probably favor Europe I guess. I doubt it. Germany and especially Switzerland have a quite hight cost of living. Coming from Canada, I get sticker shock every time I go to the US because of how cheap everything is. I had the opposite reaction going to Europe (except for Italy). It would also be interesting to compare take-home (after tax) pay.
- myrmidon 2y ago
  You are 100% right about Switzerland (but its so far ahead that adjustments would not matter too much), for the others its probably barely double digit percentage adjustments. My personal experience is that German supermarkets are priced extremely competitive (Lidl/Aldi specifically), and Italy felt more expensive by comparison to me (except maybe for local produce and cheese). Comparing after-tax pay instead would help the US pull ahead for sure, but I feel a bit mixed about that because those taxes pay for stuff like child- and healthcare, which in the US is probably significantly more expensive out-of-pocket than the median EU citizens pays in taxes for the same.

arwhatever 2y ago

Notwithstanding the other comments about the effect GDP per capita might or might not have on individuals, how much of this GDP difference is driven by the strength or weakness of consumer protections within a given economy? Is higher GDP per capita truly a strong argument against consumer protections?

s_dev 2y ago

The fact that Mississipi and Bavaria Germany have the same GDP per capita tells you a lot about GDP.