17 ms·

You are aware that these LRAD systems have been used against US citizens, aren't you?

by camilo2025 2y ago

hammock 2y ago
When?
- alborzb 2y ago
  NYPD -- https://gothamist.com/news/city-settles-lawsuit-protesters-who-accused-nypd-firing-sound-cannon-them https://gothamist.com/news/city-settles-lawsuit-protesters-w...
- worldsayshi 2y ago
  Apparently used multiple times during Black Lives Matter protests: https://www.globenewswire.com/news-release/2020/06/04/2043685/0/en/Genasys-Inc-LRAD-Systems-Deployed-by-First-Responders-and-Law-Enforcement-for-Critical-Crowd-Communications.html https://www.globenewswire.com/news-release/2020/06/04/204368...
- perching_aix 2y ago
  Here you go: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long-range_acoustic_device#United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long-range_acoustic_device#Uni... Was an especially commonly discussed topic in 2020 during the George Floyd related protests. Some notable video resources on how to defend against these devices and what one can expect: [0] and [1]. To save you time, if i remember correctly, the most effective is one of those plastic riot shields held in reverse to direct the sound back at the sender (notably pretty difficult when you don't want to just hit other protesters, or don't know where the sound is coming from and/or are getting hit by reflections). [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CXKTBQBugIA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CXKTBQBugIA [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3sqIvak-4Ek https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3sqIvak-4Ek
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
observationist 2y ago
Yes - we've got a long way to go with regards to these technologies.
pclmulqdq 2y ago
Police also regularly use tear gas against US citizens. These are weapons that would violate the Geneva convention, but we're okay with them to disperse a crowd.
- amelius 2y ago
  What would ICC think of it, I wonder.
  - pclmulqdq 2y ago
    The ICC is fine with it. France is a particularly big fan of firing tear gas canisters at protestors. It's not just the US.
- laweijfmvo 2y ago
  are they against the Geneva convention because of the direct effects, or because in a war you’d then proceed to kill everyone while they’re coughing?
  - jvanderbot 2y ago
    Both? Indiscriminate chemical weapons is the issue, not the intent. Otherwise wouldn't all weapons be illegal?
    - seabass-labrax 2y ago
      Some weapons are intrinsically forbidden because of their effects on individuals: soft-point bullets for instance. These are as discriminate as you want them to be, but are nonetheless prohibited in conflicts. Thus it's not just indiscriminate weapons that are banned by international agreement!
      - jvanderbot 2y ago
        When asked why tear gas is banned, the answer I gave was "the weapon is indiscriminate and chemical" not "all banned weapons are indiscriminate and chemical". For example lasers used to blind soldiers are generally banned as well and as you point out, lasers are basically arbitrarily discriminate.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
spacecadet 2y ago
My American Citizen score card: LRAD + Tear gas 2009 Tear gas 2017 Tear gas 2021 Still got the exhausted canister from 2009 as a souvenir. Carry a bottle of water, the tear gas rinses out quickly.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
ofcourseiwasone 2y ago
I went hiking in Honolulu once with this woman who worked for the US gov I met on tinder. We went through this bamboo grove behind the city. All of sudden there was this overwhelming tiredness that took me over and I had to sleep. I needed to sit down by a rock and fell asleep very quickly. Then I woke up really quickly but it seemed like avea have passed. It was crazy. I was super healthy back then and don't have any issues or take any medicines. It was crazy, let me tell you, that woman was very precise but very strange.
orochimaaru 2y ago
They have been used against US citizens in the United States? That is news to me. If they have been used in other countries against US diplomatic corps that is an act of war. Now if a US citizen uses a visit to a foreign country to protest against a government they’re on their own. I’m sorry, but US citizens shouldn’t be engaging in that and the US state department has no obligation to protect that condition.
- ruined 2y ago
  it's actually quite common. i have personally experienced use of LRAD by police as a weapon. the first actual use of LRAD by police as a weapon in the united states was possibly in 2009 https://www.aclupa.org/news/2012/11/14/city-pittsburgh-settles-g-20-lawsuits https://www.aclupa.org/news/2012/11/14/city-pittsburgh-settl... though it is known to have been deployed but not used as a weapon earlier than that.
  - ruined 2y ago
    but to clarify, i don't think the video posted by OP shows use of an LRAD. that is something else
- guhwhut 2y ago
  [dead]
- dole 2y ago
  Used in 2014 against protesters in Ferguson. https://slate.com/technology/2014/08/lrad-long-range-acoustic-device-sound-cannons-were-used-for-crowd-control-in-ferguson-missouri-protests.html https://slate.com/technology/2014/08/lrad-long-range-acousti...
- pjc50 2y ago
  The US has also in some places explicitly legalized the use of cars as a lethal weapon against protestors: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/21/us/politics/republican-anti-protest-laws.html https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/21/us/politics/republican-an...
lazyeye 2y ago
It doesn't matter what it is, or where it's happening in the world, the conversation always comes back to the US. Always.
dewyatt 2y ago
Example: https://www.theblaze.com/news/general-mark-milley-pentagon-approved-directed-energy-weapons-for-use-on-june-2020-dc-rioters-source-says https://www.theblaze.com/news/general-mark-milley-pentagon-a...

You are aware that these LRAD systems have been used against US citizens, aren't you?

hammock 2y ago

When?

alborzb 2y ago
NYPD -- https://gothamist.com/news/city-settles-lawsuit-protesters-who-accused-nypd-firing-sound-cannon-them https://gothamist.com/news/city-settles-lawsuit-protesters-w...
worldsayshi 2y ago
Apparently used multiple times during Black Lives Matter protests: https://www.globenewswire.com/news-release/2020/06/04/2043685/0/en/Genasys-Inc-LRAD-Systems-Deployed-by-First-Responders-and-Law-Enforcement-for-Critical-Crowd-Communications.html https://www.globenewswire.com/news-release/2020/06/04/204368...
perching_aix 2y ago
Here you go: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long-range_acoustic_device#United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long-range_acoustic_device#Uni... Was an especially commonly discussed topic in 2020 during the George Floyd related protests. Some notable video resources on how to defend against these devices and what one can expect: [0] and [1]. To save you time, if i remember correctly, the most effective is one of those plastic riot shields held in reverse to direct the sound back at the sender (notably pretty difficult when you don't want to just hit other protesters, or don't know where the sound is coming from and/or are getting hit by reflections). [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CXKTBQBugIA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CXKTBQBugIA [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3sqIvak-4Ek https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3sqIvak-4Ek
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

observationist 2y ago

Yes - we've got a long way to go with regards to these technologies.

pclmulqdq 2y ago

Police also regularly use tear gas against US citizens. These are weapons that would violate the Geneva convention, but we're okay with them to disperse a crowd.

amelius 2y ago
What would ICC think of it, I wonder.
- pclmulqdq 2y ago
  The ICC is fine with it. France is a particularly big fan of firing tear gas canisters at protestors. It's not just the US.
laweijfmvo 2y ago
are they against the Geneva convention because of the direct effects, or because in a war you’d then proceed to kill everyone while they’re coughing?
- jvanderbot 2y ago
  Both? Indiscriminate chemical weapons is the issue, not the intent. Otherwise wouldn't all weapons be illegal?
  - seabass-labrax 2y ago
    Some weapons are intrinsically forbidden because of their effects on individuals: soft-point bullets for instance. These are as discriminate as you want them to be, but are nonetheless prohibited in conflicts. Thus it's not just indiscriminate weapons that are banned by international agreement!
    - jvanderbot 2y ago
      When asked why tear gas is banned, the answer I gave was "the weapon is indiscriminate and chemical" not "all banned weapons are indiscriminate and chemical". For example lasers used to blind soldiers are generally banned as well and as you point out, lasers are basically arbitrarily discriminate.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

spacecadet 2y ago

My American Citizen score card: LRAD + Tear gas 2009 Tear gas 2017 Tear gas 2021 Still got the exhausted canister from 2009 as a souvenir. Carry a bottle of water, the tear gas rinses out quickly.

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

ofcourseiwasone 2y ago

I went hiking in Honolulu once with this woman who worked for the US gov I met on tinder. We went through this bamboo grove behind the city. All of sudden there was this overwhelming tiredness that took me over and I had to sleep. I needed to sit down by a rock and fell asleep very quickly. Then I woke up really quickly but it seemed like avea have passed. It was crazy. I was super healthy back then and don't have any issues or take any medicines. It was crazy, let me tell you, that woman was very precise but very strange.

orochimaaru 2y ago

They have been used against US citizens in the United States? That is news to me. If they have been used in other countries against US diplomatic corps that is an act of war. Now if a US citizen uses a visit to a foreign country to protest against a government they’re on their own. I’m sorry, but US citizens shouldn’t be engaging in that and the US state department has no obligation to protect that condition.

ruined 2y ago
it's actually quite common. i have personally experienced use of LRAD by police as a weapon. the first actual use of LRAD by police as a weapon in the united states was possibly in 2009 https://www.aclupa.org/news/2012/11/14/city-pittsburgh-settles-g-20-lawsuits https://www.aclupa.org/news/2012/11/14/city-pittsburgh-settl... though it is known to have been deployed but not used as a weapon earlier than that.
- ruined 2y ago
  but to clarify, i don't think the video posted by OP shows use of an LRAD. that is something else
guhwhut 2y ago
[dead]
dole 2y ago
Used in 2014 against protesters in Ferguson. https://slate.com/technology/2014/08/lrad-long-range-acoustic-device-sound-cannons-were-used-for-crowd-control-in-ferguson-missouri-protests.html https://slate.com/technology/2014/08/lrad-long-range-acousti...
pjc50 2y ago
The US has also in some places explicitly legalized the use of cars as a lethal weapon against protestors: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/21/us/politics/republican-anti-protest-laws.html https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/21/us/politics/republican-an...

lazyeye 2y ago

It doesn't matter what it is, or where it's happening in the world, the conversation always comes back to the US. Always.

dewyatt 2y ago

Example: https://www.theblaze.com/news/general-mark-milley-pentagon-approved-directed-energy-weapons-for-use-on-june-2020-dc-rioters-source-says https://www.theblaze.com/news/general-mark-milley-pentagon-a...