5 ms·

The author literally just bought the wrong device for their needs. Probably 95% of people who own computers do not need root access and should not have it, pos

by dangus 2y ago

The author literally just bought the wrong device for their needs. Probably 95% of people who own computers do not need root access and should not have it, possibly ever. The iPad is a great device for all the people who need what it offers. It's an amazing graphical tablet, it's a cheap way to watch movies and play games, and it's an amazing system to use while standing without a desk (e.g., for retail and outdoor situations). All of these use cases have nothing to do with gaining root access. Heck, I don't even think most of my development tasks on a real desktop computer involve elevating into root privileges. I'd sure like the ability to but if it was taken away from me I'm not sure it would affect me all that much. "I don't consider any system without root access to be a real computer. So anyway, I decided to buy a Roku streaming box as my main computer and it sucks! What's wrong with the world today!?"

pjmlp 2y ago
Some folks seem to be in the fashion that everything with a CPU can get a monitor and a keyboard attached to it, regardless of the original design purpose.
- Apocryphon 2y ago
  Why not? https://www.youtube.com/@BringusStudios https://www.youtube.com/@BringusStudios
  - pjmlp 2y ago
    Personally I rather buy hardware fit for purpose.
    - pessimizer 2y ago
      The hardware isn't keeping a keyboard or monitor from connecting, unless it was specifically designed to prevent that.
    - Dylan16807 2y ago
      The hardware is fit for purpose. That's what makes the situation frustrating. It's a software lock.
      - pjmlp 2y ago
        That wasn't what it was being sold for, so no it isn't.
        Dylan16807 2y ago
        Interesting definition. I would have said what it's sold for doesn't matter at all when we're taking about whether it's fit for some arbitrary purpose. I want to probe your definition a bit. Let's say a factory makes gears. All the broken ones get recycled. After all quality checks have been done, some of the passing gears are pulled off the line and redirected to the gift shop to be sold as paperweights. 1. Are unsold gears in the factory storeroom fit for purpose as gears? 2. Are unsold gears in the gift shop fit for purpose as gears? 2a. If yes, do they lose that fit at the moment of sale? 2b. If no, do they regain that fit if the factory has production issues and brings a crate back from the gift shop to sell as gears?
        pjmlp 2y ago
        Comparing Apples to Oranges. One is a device sold with a specific purpose that the buyers knowingly paid for, the other is a piece of isolated pieces pluggable hardware.
        NotPractical 2y ago
        There is no specific purpose for an iPad.
        Apocryphon 2y ago
        Apple's actual marketing postures the iPad as a general computing device https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3S5BLs51yDQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3S5BLs51yDQ “with iPad Pro + iOS 11, a post-PC world may be closer than you think.” https://9to5mac.com/2017/11/16/ipad-pro-whats-a-computer-ad/ https://9to5mac.com/2017/11/16/ipad-pro-whats-a-computer-ad/
- Daishiman 2y ago
  There is no reason apart from Apple's closed-source restrictive software policies that the device is nowhere near as useful as it could be.
  - linguae 2y ago
    Agreed. The iPad, from a hardware point of view, is a close approximation to Alan Kay's Dynabook concept (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynabook https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynabook). It's a shame that iPads are so locked down; I'd love to use an iPad with an unrestricted operating system. I have a Microsoft Surface 7 Pro. Even though Windows is not my favorite operating system, I enjoy using the hardware. I'm also looking forward to Framework's upcoming 12" convertible tablet; I also have a Framework 13 laptop.
    - intrasight 2y ago
      Pricing will be key for that Framework 12. I hope it's competitive. Like ~$600.
  - pjmlp 2y ago
    If it doesn't fit you, don't buy it only to complain. There are other vendors with more open experiences. If those vendors actually get enough market share, maybe even Apple might adopt them. Exactly like they did with keyboards, pen, and windows management, that came before on PC and Android tablets.
    - Daishiman 2y ago
      If the largest vendor of computer hardware on the planet purposely locks down its devices for no apparent consumer benefit then informed users have every right to complain to the less informed how this harms the entire market in the long run.
      - pjmlp 2y ago
        It is the largest vendor, exactly because only a minority cares about using a UNIX shell on their tablets.
- bhelkey 2y ago
  Apple sells keyboards with trackpads for the iPad [1]. [1] https://www.apple.com/ipad-keyboards/ https://www.apple.com/ipad-keyboards/
bluefirebrand 2y ago
> Probably 95% of people who own computers do not need root access and should not have it, possibly ever But they should be able to take it to someone else who can use root access to fix it The idea that a person should not have any access to be an admin of a physical device that they own is ridiculous They might not need it, they might not ever use it, but they should absolutely be able to if a situation calls for it
- api 2y ago
  Unfortunately if you give non-technical users root you are also giving root to the phishing site or fraudster that cons them into giving it root. It's hard for technical people to get their heads around just what a hostile environment the modern scam and hustler riddled slop and spam infested Internet is. Using the net as a non-technical user is like walking around a dodgy high crime area of some third world city at night as an unarmed sixteen year old girl there on holiday. Tech folks get so good at ignoring and skipping all that nonsense that they stop noticing it. I get three or four phishing or scam attempts a week, some of which look convincing if you don't know how to examine an e-mail domain or a URL. It's a hellscape. An exercise for readers who don't believe me: get on a Windows machine and try to use regular web search to find and download a piece of software outside the App Store. Pretend you are non-technical and just looking for something to get something done. Be sure you do this from a VM you can delete after it becomes compromised, assuming you can actually get to a download at all behind all the popups and scam "your PC is infected!" sites.
  - pessimizer 2y ago
    Most techies not only know many, many people who aren't technical, they are also the ones who are called on when their family and friends get suckered. It is not ignorance that makes technical people think that everyone should be able to get root access to the things they "own," it is experience. This is so much "you support free speech because you're a good person, but if you heard what some people say..." > An exercise for readers who don't believe me With the number of actual Windows installations I, and other technical people, have cleaned the slime off of, this isn't persuasive. People who use Linux generally aren't ignorant of Windows, although some extreme Apple partisans might be.

by dangus 2y ago

pjmlp 2y ago

Some folks seem to be in the fashion that everything with a CPU can get a monitor and a keyboard attached to it, regardless of the original design purpose.

Apocryphon 2y ago
Why not? https://www.youtube.com/@BringusStudios https://www.youtube.com/@BringusStudios
- pjmlp 2y ago
  Personally I rather buy hardware fit for purpose.
  - pessimizer 2y ago
    The hardware isn't keeping a keyboard or monitor from connecting, unless it was specifically designed to prevent that.
  - Dylan16807 2y ago
    The hardware is fit for purpose. That's what makes the situation frustrating. It's a software lock.
    - pjmlp 2y ago
      That wasn't what it was being sold for, so no it isn't.
      - Dylan16807 2y ago
        Interesting definition. I would have said what it's sold for doesn't matter at all when we're taking about whether it's fit for some arbitrary purpose. I want to probe your definition a bit. Let's say a factory makes gears. All the broken ones get recycled. After all quality checks have been done, some of the passing gears are pulled off the line and redirected to the gift shop to be sold as paperweights. 1. Are unsold gears in the factory storeroom fit for purpose as gears? 2. Are unsold gears in the gift shop fit for purpose as gears? 2a. If yes, do they lose that fit at the moment of sale? 2b. If no, do they regain that fit if the factory has production issues and brings a crate back from the gift shop to sell as gears?
        pjmlp 2y ago
        Comparing Apples to Oranges. One is a device sold with a specific purpose that the buyers knowingly paid for, the other is a piece of isolated pieces pluggable hardware.
        NotPractical 2y ago
        There is no specific purpose for an iPad.
        Apocryphon 2y ago
        Apple's actual marketing postures the iPad as a general computing device https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3S5BLs51yDQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3S5BLs51yDQ “with iPad Pro + iOS 11, a post-PC world may be closer than you think.” https://9to5mac.com/2017/11/16/ipad-pro-whats-a-computer-ad/ https://9to5mac.com/2017/11/16/ipad-pro-whats-a-computer-ad/
Daishiman 2y ago
There is no reason apart from Apple's closed-source restrictive software policies that the device is nowhere near as useful as it could be.
- linguae 2y ago
  Agreed. The iPad, from a hardware point of view, is a close approximation to Alan Kay's Dynabook concept (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynabook https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynabook). It's a shame that iPads are so locked down; I'd love to use an iPad with an unrestricted operating system. I have a Microsoft Surface 7 Pro. Even though Windows is not my favorite operating system, I enjoy using the hardware. I'm also looking forward to Framework's upcoming 12" convertible tablet; I also have a Framework 13 laptop.
  - intrasight 2y ago
    Pricing will be key for that Framework 12. I hope it's competitive. Like ~$600.
- pjmlp 2y ago
  If it doesn't fit you, don't buy it only to complain. There are other vendors with more open experiences. If those vendors actually get enough market share, maybe even Apple might adopt them. Exactly like they did with keyboards, pen, and windows management, that came before on PC and Android tablets.
  - Daishiman 2y ago
    If the largest vendor of computer hardware on the planet purposely locks down its devices for no apparent consumer benefit then informed users have every right to complain to the less informed how this harms the entire market in the long run.
    - pjmlp 2y ago
      It is the largest vendor, exactly because only a minority cares about using a UNIX shell on their tablets.
bhelkey 2y ago
Apple sells keyboards with trackpads for the iPad [1]. [1] https://www.apple.com/ipad-keyboards/ https://www.apple.com/ipad-keyboards/

bluefirebrand 2y ago

> Probably 95% of people who own computers do not need root access and should not have it, possibly ever But they should be able to take it to someone else who can use root access to fix it The idea that a person should not have any access to be an admin of a physical device that they own is ridiculous They might not need it, they might not ever use it, but they should absolutely be able to if a situation calls for it

api 2y ago
Unfortunately if you give non-technical users root you are also giving root to the phishing site or fraudster that cons them into giving it root. It's hard for technical people to get their heads around just what a hostile environment the modern scam and hustler riddled slop and spam infested Internet is. Using the net as a non-technical user is like walking around a dodgy high crime area of some third world city at night as an unarmed sixteen year old girl there on holiday. Tech folks get so good at ignoring and skipping all that nonsense that they stop noticing it. I get three or four phishing or scam attempts a week, some of which look convincing if you don't know how to examine an e-mail domain or a URL. It's a hellscape. An exercise for readers who don't believe me: get on a Windows machine and try to use regular web search to find and download a piece of software outside the App Store. Pretend you are non-technical and just looking for something to get something done. Be sure you do this from a VM you can delete after it becomes compromised, assuming you can actually get to a download at all behind all the popups and scam "your PC is infected!" sites.
- pessimizer 2y ago
  Most techies not only know many, many people who aren't technical, they are also the ones who are called on when their family and friends get suckered. It is not ignorance that makes technical people think that everyone should be able to get root access to the things they "own," it is experience. This is so much "you support free speech because you're a good person, but if you heard what some people say..." > An exercise for readers who don't believe me With the number of actual Windows installations I, and other technical people, have cleaned the slime off of, this isn't persuasive. People who use Linux generally aren't ignorant of Windows, although some extreme Apple partisans might be.