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My 16-month theanine self-experiment
- brcmthrowaway 2y agoWhat does gwern or guzey think of this? I only trust them
- MichaelDickens 2y agoHow did you determine that they were trustworthy? Whatever process you used to evaluate their trustworthiness, use the same process on this article, and then decide whether you trust this article.
- postpawl 2y agoThis article seems not bad, but I’m skeptical of the Dynomight author because he previously downplayed the recent rise in homelessness as just returning to 2011 levels. Newer data from late 2024 shows homelessness actually surged 18% to a record high, driven by housing costs, migration, and ending pandemic support - so his earlier analysis missed important trends.
- dynm 2y agoThat post (https://dynomight.net/homeless/ https://dynomight.net/homeless/) uses HUD's counts from January 2023. There's a long delay with these—the counts are done each year in January but usually only published in December. The January 2024 counts are now available and do indeed show much higher levels: A total of 771k on Jan 2024 as opposed to 653k in Jan 2023 or 582k in 2022. But that post was done in July 2024, when that data wasn't available yet. (And was, I hope, clear that it was using the Jan 2023 counts.)
- petesergeant 2y agoThis is good. If anyone wants to do a follow-up I’d like to see a higher dosage used, and I’d like to see the effect of weekly supplementation, eg each week you fill your pill-box either with vit-d or l-theanine and rate the week as a whole (with some blinding process). Finally interested in populations with high caffeine use. If I had billg money, I’d divert some of it into just running high quality tests of all these “maybe” supplements.
- darthwalsh 2y agoCould we crowdfund to pay for this? My friend keeps wanting me to get into supplements (or into multi-level marketing selling supplements...) and I would definitely chip in a few dollars a month to prove whether the advertised claims were true.
- ggm 2y agoTL;DR single test at best inconclusive but broadly said no evident benefit. Good randomisation but so many variables. I am convinced the author is in a persisting out of body state. Also, placebo is great!! I have reverse white coat syndrome, paying my GP attendance fee to have a nice doctor measure my BP consistently shows it better than when I do it at home.
- brianpan 2y agoDo you measure it in a chair similar to your doctor's office? I thought my couch was similar and I was careful to have my feet flat on the floor. But I "lowered by BP" by 10-15 by moving to the dining room table.
- ggm 2y agoThis is a self reported anecdata over many years. I do measure mainly on a couch, yes. Odd that reclining would be higher than sitting but I will try some variation. You'd think being more corpse like was net beneficial to BP
- noduerme 2y agoPlacebo is a fantastic treatment for hypochondria.
- instagib 2y agoI finished one bottle of Theanine for occasional use and went to order a different combo as it was unavailable. It is Theanine Serene with Relora which also includes Magnesium, GABA, Taurine, and Holy basil in two large tablets. Helps relax and ease falling asleep. Another option may be a pain/stomach relief/sleep aid concoction we found : 1tsp ginger 1tsp turmeric 1tsp cinnamon 1tsp fine black pepper 500ml milk Boil for 10 minutes. Drink one cup warm and save the other for another day.
- energy123 2y agoIf you're not careful and diligent, this is a recipe for liver damage from coumarin and heavy metal toxicity. You can take all those things safely but it requires knowledge and care.
- TylerE 2y agoAnd that’s making the huge assumption that what you had what it claims to.
- vazma 2y agoHey, ok I get it for coumarin but just out of curiosity, what can introduce heavy metals in this mix?
- astrange 2y agoTurmeric, but I think it's only some suppliers?
- adrianN 2y agoSome people add yellow lead salts to turmeric to increase profit margins.
- energy123 2y agoTurmeric and cinnamon are both notorious for lead contamination. In many locations it's legal to sell consumables that have disgustingly high ppm of heavy metals as long as the recommended daily dose is small so that the absolute amount of heavy metals stays below a fixed threshold. Also many companies just flagrantly violate the regulatory levels. Getting clean turmeric extract is possible by knowing which brand to trust. Natural Factors is trustworthy, they are transparent with heavy metal testing and have third-party validation in academic studies and by consumerlab.com. But even if it's clean, you would still need to manage this risk: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK548561 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK548561 For cinnamon, avoiding coumarin is possible by making sure it's ceylon cinnamon. But I don't know of any brand selling ceylon cinnamon that I would also trust to have low heavy metal levels. The intersection of reliable brands and ceylon cinnamon sellers is a very sparse set.
- AequitasOmnibus 2y agoFrom the discussions I've seen about theanine, the real benefit supposedly came when it was taken alongside caffeine. The thinking being that theanine moderated some of the jittery effects of caffeine, allowing the user to take higher doses of caffeine, which itself has some benefit on task concentration and focus. I wish the author had spent time addressing that theory specifically.
- satvikpendem 2y agoCorrect, this is why tea and especially ground tea leaves like matcha induce the feeling of focus for longer, they already naturally have higher levels of L-theanine with caffeine.
- disqard 2y agoWhile reading, I was wondering about matcha, and then I saw your comment -- which jives with my personal experience too! Thanks for chiming in :)
- FollowingTheDao 2y agoThe theanine stimulates the NMDA receptors so it is possible that the glutamate you get from the Caffiene is not enough to stimulate your NMDA receptor. It might be that you are a fast metabolizer of Caffeine. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NMDA_receptor https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NMDA_receptor
- ctrlp 2y agoThis has been my experience with it as well. It appears to regulate the spike of caffeine from coffee. I recall reading it had to do with an enzyme that helped the body process caffeine so it attentuates the effect of the stimulant. Whether that's true, I often take one with coffee. I've also experienced similar effects chasing my morning coffee with green tea.
- TimByte 2y agoWould've been interesting if OP had tested that combo specifically, maybe comparing theanine + caffeine to just caffeine alone in a blinded setup
- Murfalo 2y agoGlutamate is fascinating! The latest and greatest hypothesis for mood, learning, etc. hot off the press. Suddenly everything targets NMDA/AMPA receptors and increases plasticity
- OutOfHere 2y agoBe very careful targeting NMDAr/AMPAr directly. I made this mistake. Those receptors are extremely prone to causing permanent damage due to excitotoxicity.
- freedomben 2y agoIf you are willing to share more about your story, I'd love to hear it. Did you cause permanent damage? What were you using and how much? What are the symptoms like now?
- OutOfHere 2y agoYes, it 100% caused permanent damage in me due to an interaction of the agonist with an unrelated stimulant. After years, I ultimately stumbled upon the combination of memantine+telmisartan which successfully reversed much of the damage. I still have issues with things that I cannot physically tolerate due to the leftover damage. Also, I tried other things like valproate that failed to fully reverse the damage, but caused significant permanent problems of their own. To make a long story short, use gentle safe indirect promoters for NMDA/AMPA like L-glutamine and at most phosphatidylserine, but nothing stronger or more low-level. Leave the direct agonism for the rodent studies.
- OutOfHere 2y agoIt is strange to discuss L-theanine with vitamin D as one has nothing much to do with the other. It could've been better to compare L-theanine with a placebo (cellulose) which is how research conventionally works. L-theanine at 200-300 mg before bed is extremely useful for canceling excessive caffeine while trying to sleep at night. Add piperine to the mix for possible further cancelation of caffeine. [PMID 35684048]
- MichaelDickens 2y ago> It is strange to discuss L-theanine with vitamin D as one has nothing much to do with the other. That's the idea, vitamin D was used as a placebo. They bought vitamin D supplements rather than cellulose because the supplier sold both L-theanine and vitamin D and the pills looked (nearly) identical.
- OutOfHere 2y agoVitamin D3 is not a placebo at all. It 100% promotes energy quite quickly even though it takes much longer for the body to convert it to the active form. Also, its mental effect is distinctly different from that of L-theanine, like day and night. For these reasons, it's not a great candidate for comparison with L-theanine.
- genewitch 2y agoUnless it's the active D vitamin, it takes weeks to convert it into reserves. Taking vitamin D once, right before bed will do nothing. Our bodies don't use it that way. Cholecalciferol = weeks calcidiol = hours
- OutOfHere 2y agoThe conversion period strongly depends on the input dose and on available cofactors. Numerous people have reported that 5000 IU of vitamin D3 can produce energy benefits in just a few hours if one has been skipping taking it. If one is low on cofactors, or takes a low dose of D3, then I imagine it taking days or even longer as you noted.
- steele 2y agoNow Foods sponsored pill post
- baby 2y agoI tried it and it never did anything, I tried all sorts of CBD products as well (while in SF) and I never noticed a thing. The only thing that worked was microdosing shrooms which I've done twice in SF. I felt very calm and had a lot of novel ideas during these two days. Would recommend trying. Never microdosed LSD.
- abraxas 2y agoMy issue with dosing shrooms (micro or otherwise) is that I find myself building up tolerance extremely fast. Literally within a couple of days my tolerance of psilocybin shoots up so much that even doubled doses seem to have little effect. I then need to stop taking it for weeks or months before my tolerance drops back to baseline. Does anyone else have this issue with shrooms? FWIW I believe I'm generally quite resistant to psychoactive substances having been treated with benzos for anxiety and depression and finding they did almost nothing to allieviate any symptoms. The curious thing was that despite being warned against their "incredible addictiveness" I was able to increase my dosage way beyond prescribed levels only to find out they still did nothing and then quit them cold turkey with no effect whatsoever. It was almost like swallowing sugar pills.
- minitoar 2y agoYes this sort of tolerance building is the norm. There’s somewhat reduced cross-tolerance so you might alternate lsd and psilocybin.
- secunit 2y agoL-Theanine has a noticeable effect when I drink my morning coffee, it totally eliminates the jittery effects and smooths it out. I've tried a lot of CBD products and some work VERY well (Feals, Soul) and some might as well be gummy bears (Cornbread Hemp). I generally disbelieve "internet" PR claims as well, but the two I mentioned are legit. I'll eat 3 Feals gummies or 1 Soul "Out of Office" quad, and it rocks me. (M, 40's, 6', 170lbs).
- kerkeslager 2y ago
- amluto 2y agoI was surprised that the author’s conclusion didn’t mention another model that looked consistent with the data: that theanine works slowly — over the course of a few days, not hours. (I have no idea whether it would work like this. A placebo effect only is also consistent with the data.)
- energy123 2y agoThere's no need to invoke a placebo effect as an explanation for any of the results. He took it in response to acute stress, which is a local maximum in stress. The decrease in stress afterwards is to be expected.
- amluto 2y agoTake a look at the stress vs day graph, though: it sure looks like stress was lower during that period. But maybe this is because the measurements were at a different time of day?
- NotYourLawyer 2y agoHe talks about this mean-reversion effect.
- kayodelycaon 2y agoAccording to my doctor, Vitamin-D can be taken once a week or daily have the same long term effect. This matches up with 15 years of blood tests. (N=1)
- gs17 2y ago> that theanine works slowly — over the course of a few days, not hours This was my experience. I'm not sure if that's "typical", although I've never really tried to take it like that.
- bawolff 2y ago> This hacker news thread is full of positive reports, Hacker news always has the most insane takes when it comes to medical/biological things.
- genewitch 2y agoGell-Mann says: "yes, but just medicine"
- dmix 2y agoMost of this stuff is just takes from random people, not medical research. For example, the article links to 5-month old HN thread where the first comment says: > And you do not want to mess with the 5-HTP and alcohol at the same time so I googled it > Internet forums are full of horror stories of people vomiting, blacking out or having seizures after drinking while on 5-HTP. It’s impossible to know if the stories are reliable, but there is little other evidence of known interactions between 5-HTP and alcohol. https://www.drugrehab.com/addiction/alcohol/risks-of-mixing-alcohol/5-htp/ https://www.drugrehab.com/addiction/alcohol/risks-of-mixing-...
- radlad 2y agoI don't disagree with your main point, but the plural of anecdote is data. Phenomena exists before the related studies do. The link you provided goes on to say: > Antidepressants also affect the balance of neurotransmitters such as serotonin. Popular antidepressants called selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors increase levels of serotonin in the brain. The labels of SSRIs such as Celexa and Prozac warn patients not to drink alcohol while on the drugs. If you shouldn’t drink with antidepressants, you probably shouldn’t drink with 5-HTP. > The effects of mixing 5-HTP and alcohol on serotonin levels are not fully understood. However, both substances alter serotonin levels, which may increase the risk of developing serotonin syndrome. This life-threatening condition is caused by the accumulation of too much serotonin in the body. Serotonin syndrome can cause confusion, agitation, sweating, coordination loss, fever and seizure.
- card_zero 2y ago
- ein0p 2y agoGood to see such experimentation, especially when the person conducting the experiments takes the results with a grain of salt. I was first exposed to supplements when I started lifting seriously, a decade ago. Man oh man, some people go crazy on supplements in that space, literally wasting hundreds of dollars every month, for years. And in the end the only three things that seem to do anything for lifters are: whey protein, creatine, and ZMA (Zinc/Magnesium/B6). I did waste quite a bit of money as well until I looked at the actual evidence.
- briHass 2y agoAnd of course, the ones that come from the end of a needle. If most supplements actually worked, a pharma company would analyze it and reformulate it to get a patent, and then you'd hear about it on commercials.
- ein0p 2y agoYeah. But I never took any of the steroid stuff. I only compete with my former self. Not being able to throw 400lbs overhead is fine. I also want to be able to walk when I'm old.
- Frederation 2y agoBoy, that hits diff these days. Just let me walk without major assistance.
- petesergeant 2y ago> then you'd hear about it on commercials Unless you lived in a normal country where marketing pharmaceuticals direct to consumers is -- of course -- banned.
- andsoitis 2y agoThat doesn’t invalidate the idea, because we’d see it happening in countries like the US, but we don’t.
- biophysboy 2y agoI don’t understand why they used another supplement hypothesized to mitigate stress as a control.
- ggm 2y agoD's effect on mood is well known so yea. They said slow acting but.. well I dunno. Felt like a bad pick. They should have got empty caps and filled them with chalk.
- bawolff 2y agoYeah. Like yes vitamin d is slow acting, but still when you can pick literally any substance in the world...
- walamaking 2y agoYeah surprised at all the comments saying this was a good experiment. Seems like a huge waste of time.
- havaloc 2y agoIronically Now Foods L-theanine used to be a variant of a special extraction method named Suntheanine but that’s no longer the case, probably due to cost. I’ve had good luck with the Suntheanine brands. GNC brand has been effective for me. YMMV.
- jaggederest 2y agoThis is actually a thing I wish existed, but I don't have time and energy to make it right now. I'd pay $25 a month or more. Basically it's an application that lets you do self-experiments like this, properly blinded and with good statistics. A challenge-dechallenge-rechallenge study is one of the ones I like, but if you want to do one you essentially have to design the study anew each time, and it would be convenient to run multiple at once if that's possible. I'm not interested in generalizing, I just want to know if (for example) taking Vitamin D every day at 1000 iu is enough, or whether I should be taking more or less. I can get labs done on this, of course, but again I'm more interested in subjective wellbeing than blood levels beyond avoiding deficiency or hypervitaminosis. Maybe such an app exists and I simply don't know about it.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- dmix 2y agoWhile not exactly the same https://examine.com/ https://examine.com/ is doing this sort business and seems to be popular. They aggregate and meta analyze research for pills like L-Theanine and people pay $30/month to access it https://examine.com/supplements/theanine/?show_conditions=true#examine-database https://examine.com/supplements/theanine/?show_conditions=tr...
- fragmede 2y agoyou want a service to: mail out a 30-pack of daily pills, there's an app where you record your mood/whatever, and then at the end of it, reveal which days were VitD and which was collagen? how much would you pay for this?
- djfivyvusn 2y agoSkip the pills. Make the app.
- fragmede 2y agohow do you blind the contents of the pills unless someone else does it?
- pazimzadeh 2y ago> I’ve long found that tea makes me much less nervous than coffee, even with equal caffeine. Many people have suggested theanine as the explanation, but I’m skeptical. Most tea only has ~5 mg of theanine per cup, while when people supplement, they take 100-400 mg. Apparently grassy shade-grown Japanese teas are particularly high in theanine. And I do find those teas particularly calming. But they still only manage ~25 mg per cup It's not uncommon for a substance to have different, even opposite effects at different doses. For example high dose melatonin can keep you up, and stress you out, whereas in most people you only need up to 1 mg to promote sleep. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hormesis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hormesis
- dylan604 2y agoI would also look at other ingredients in teas as a knock on effect vs straight supplement extracts. Sometimes the extract as a supplement isn’t the same once separated from the rest of the plant it’s found.
- cluckindan 2y agoHow about other ingredients in coffee?
- kerkeslager 2y agoThat's certainly an interesting thing I wish we knew more about. My qualitative experience is that coffee gives me more anxiety than any other form of caffeine I've tried, including ones that don't contain L-theanine.
- cluckindan 2y agoCoffee is a significant source of beta-carbolines.
- FollowingTheDao 2y agoPolyphenols... https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8601035/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8601035/
- BenFranklin100 2y agoGood article. It demonstrates the necessity of rigorous clinical trials for therapeutic approval. It’s a very long and arduous process to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that a new drug is effective.
- woosik1204 2y agoLove the methodology and the thoughtful analysis long term in-depth trial. I'm actually working on a project very similar to this. It's related to self testing and doing correlation analysis for all types of nutritional supplements. Thanks for sharing
- Barrin92 2y ago>Many people try theanine and report wow or great for ADHD or cured my (social) anxiety or changing my life [...] But does it really work? As someone who has dealt with insomnia and anxiety disorder in the past, the answer to that is, no. If green tea cured anxiety you'd know by now and all of Asia would be anxiety free. Insomniacs will usually do the reverse, they'll say manically monitor every bit of caffeine they consume, yet when you read studies, giving people 400 mg of caffeine (~4 cups of coffee) delays sleep by 30 minutes or so. That's not why you lay awake hours, likewise nothing you get over the counter fixes your anxiety. These things are crutches and attachments people take (or avoid) to try to control anxiety, which makes it worse. The solution to this isn't turning yourself into a laboratory, which is very common behavior.
- MyOutfitIsVague 2y ago> when you read studies, giving people 400 mg of caffeine (~4 cups of coffee) delays sleep by 30 minutes or so. I'll need to see those studies. I'm finding the reverse: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC3805807/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC3805807/ > One study examining the sleep effects of 400 mg caffeine administered 30 minutes before bedtime demonstrated both severe sleep disruption as well as important cardiovascular effects during sleep likely related to increased sympathetic activity.
- Barrin92 2y agoYou can go down to the Table 2 of the study you linked and see that's pretty much exactly the data they got (https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC3805807/table/T2/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC3805807/table/T2/) Going from 7.8 to 7 hours and taking 50 instead of 20 minutes to fall asleep is significant for the purposes of this study, but that's not what insomniacs and anxiety patients talk about. Insomniacs who lie awake until 4 in the morning and get 3 hours of sleep routinely because they're so worried by the cup of coffee they had or the supplement they forgot don't do so because they have a physiological reaction to some caffeine, it's a mental problem.
- gloxkiqcza 2y agoCaffeine sensitivity varies widely, as does sensitivity to most substances.
- wraptile 2y agoI've been using L-Theanine for a over a year now and then and it definitely has effects! I use it mostly for sleep 100-150mg in combination of 5HTP which I found it to be an incredible sleep cocktail. I generally don't have trouble sleeping but this cocktail gives me great dreams and increase the quality of my sleep where 6-7 hours is very much enough for me compared to the usual 8-9. Unsurprisingly, l-theanine is popular in lucid dreaming communities and while I have no particular interest lucid dreaming my dreams are definitely more vivid and most importantly instantly forgettable (like normal dreams are) which is the most desirable outcome imo. 250+mg does have my mind racing a bit and this dose will prevent me from falling asleep effectively (at body weight of 75kg), anything above 200mg seems too much imo for my body weight. So I think the effect is very much observable just through dose variability. For day use I've tried l-theanine with caffeine in the morning and I'd say the effect is similar to mild adhd medication (I've been told it compares to like ~2mg of Ritallin or pinch of Kratom powder). Tho for me it always comes with side effects similar to a cup of too much coffee would have. I found that just like adhd medicine, it works best with a protein shake. This is my unscientific anecdote, tho OP's post makes me want to record my own experiences.
- TimByte 2y agoI've seen a lot of people mention theanine for relaxation, but combining it with 5-HTP for deeper sleep and vivid dreams is a new one for me
- dworkr 2y ago[dead]
- mastax 2y agoNot to put too fine a point on it but if there are blind trials showing no effect and non-blind trials showing an effect, my conclusion would be the effect is a placebo.
- brandonasuncion 2y agoI've tried different L-Theanine supplements, and there's definitely a difference in quality across companies... which could help explain the variance in experiences. Unfortunately, there isn't much regulation for supplements in general. Some companies do 3rd party purity testing, though it's not always the case.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- cluckindan 2y ago”I’ve long found that tea makes me much less nervous than coffee, even with equal caffeine.” Well, of course you are less nervous when you avoid taking coffee: it contains a LOT of beta-carbolines which act as MAO-A inhibitors. MAO-A inhibition directly prevents adrenalines from being inactivated by oxidation.
- cubefox 2y agoOr maybe it doesn't actually make him less nervous, in which case the beta-carbolines are irrelevant.
- cluckindan 2y agoOf course. MAO A/B producing gene variants (including high- and low-activity VNTRs and even complete deletion) are some of the most varied in humans.
- kristiandupont 2y agoIn spite of the confidence you're stating this with, it sounds like a serious over-simplification of a very complex dynamic.
- cluckindan 2y agoOccam’s razor. These compounds do exactly what I’ve described, which directly increases feelings of anxiety.
- kristiandupont 2y agoOccam's razor helps identify which hypothesis to test first, it doesn't state some truth.
- cluckindan 2y agoYes. And it recommends searching for explanations constructed with the smallest possible set of elements.
- kerkeslager 2y agoIt's a bit disappointing that Vitamin D was used as a control, since based on my research, Vitamin D does seem to have very significant effects on mood. Author says: > Vitamin D might have some effects on mood, but no one seems to claim that they’re acute, that you’d feel them within an hour. As far as I remember, this is correct, which is to say, I've never read anything that claimed the effects of vitamin D were acute. However, this seems like it still leaves a pretty big gap to me: you're taking a known mood-altering substance and basically hoping that the effects aren't acute because nobody has bothered to test whether they are or not. That said, this is a minor complaint, and this test is far more scientific than the vast majority of self-experiments.
- discodonkey 2y agoFor a community that prides itself on critical thinking, I'm always surprised to see HN lap this sort of pseudoscientific witch-doctor stuff up. This poorly-controlled, N=1 experiment tells you nothing, not even about the author. There's absolutely no reason to consider these novice self-experiments when professional scientific experiments are available (unless you're hunting for a specific result).
- defen 2y agoThe author directly quoted the European Food Safety Authority, who found the same thing he did. There's a rich history of self-experimentation in medicine and nutrition, I don't think you need to be so negative.
- discodonkey 2y agoMy point was that no data gleaned from this experiment would've been meaningful, regardless of the result, because it was not conducted very rigourously.and on a sufficiently large scale.
- aucisson_masque 2y agoIt's the contrary. Science, see European Food Safety Authority and examine.com, shows lots of data that it doesn't work. Yet people have been saying all over the internet it's working. The burden of the proof is on those who claim the opposite of the vast majority of scientist studies. Beside, N=1 studies is still better than some nobody on the internet claiming it works when he did nothing to negate the placebo effect.
- kristiandupont 2y agoOh come on! Studies about supplements over time are almost always "poorly controlled" because you have to ask people to do something while living their lives. Also, N=1 experiments can absolutely be interesting and give us ideas for further study, even if they don't say anything about a population.
- jeffybefffy519 2y ago
- d--b 2y agoI suspect that the placebo effect can be very strong in anxiety situations. And on top of pure placebo. The whole rite of going to the kitchen and prepare your little pill has a calming effect in itself. And maybe matcha is the same. Its preparation is slow and requires attention. Much like smoking, it’s difficult to know how much of the calm it provides come nicotin or from slower/deeper breathing, just going outside and talking to strangers. I have chronic insomnia that is turning severe, so I really want to believe these things work, but so far, they’re all very pricey and completely useless on sleep.
- teekert 2y agoThis is nice. I love that people can be so rigorous and honest as well. I just want to add that what brings my stress down (although I didn’t research it so thoroughly) is small rituals. Things to focus on, to do well, to “take a moment”. For me it’s making morning coffee. Making/baking bread, filling the dishwasher. Maybe I’m borderline OCD. But maybe many people are and just the rituals of taking pills (actually) relieves some stress. It seems so based on the study. Edit Fwiw, being about 20 years into my scientific career I’ve also come to prefer just looking at the data.
- ripped_britches 2y agoI know what you mean here, but valuing small rituals is normal and not anywhere in the same ballpark as OCD.
- teekert 2y agoTrue. But for me sometimes when I’m stressed (usually related to some lack of control) I may get very precise about how the dishwasher is organized among others. It’s annoying for people around me, but at least it’s not hard drugs.
- Jolter 2y agoThat doesn’t sound like OCD at all to me. It sounds like you have a personality that values order and control over details. Annoying perhaps, but normal. If it’s getting to the point where it impedes your social life, you could see a psychiatrist, but I’m pretty sure the diagnosis wouldn’t be OCD. OCD is characterized by strong feelings of anxiety which can only be temporarily subdued by compulsive, repeated behavior. The classic example is “can’t leave the house without washing hands 20 times, sometimes 40”. The anxiety is still there but slightly dampened by the compulsive ritual. If you don’t have crippling anxiety, you don’t have OCD.
- teekert 2y agoOk yeah I understand that it must be annoying to people with real OCD to read stuff like my comment. Apologies.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- sph 2y agoI love theanine as a low-level anxiolytic. My recommendation: * Try a lower dosage first. 400mg made me irritable. 100mg works great for me. * Effect seems to lessen if taken consecutive days; in fact it might have the opposite effect of making one more irritable than calmer. A few nights ago I was tossing and turning because I had too much coffee before bed. A theanine pill and sleep was restored. It doesn't do much more than that, but it's good to have for one of those days that you just want to punch a wall.
- TimByte 2y agoThe biggest takeaway for me is how unreliable our subjective sense of "this works" can be without proper controls. Also, the way placebo + regression to the mean can make almost anything seem effective in the moment
- rwyinuse 2y agoI tried 200mg L-theanine pills for some days. I noticed a slightly calming effect, but after the supposed effect wore off, I suffered from unusually high level of anxiety. So I guess it can give you withdrawal symptoms. CBD worked much better for me in that regard.
- TimByte 2y agoDid you find CBD helped consistently, or did you have to experiment with doses and timing to get the right balance?
- rwyinuse 2y agoI only used it occasionally, took it about 1 hours before going to sleep. I can't really comment on daily use or dosage. I just bought whatever CBD oil a local market was selling. It contains 10% broad spectrum CBD isolate (rest being hemp oil) if the label is to be believed. At least in my country these things aren't well regulated, so experiences will probably vary between vendors, as you can't be sure of exact CBD concentration.
- TimByte 2y agoThat makes sense, especially with the lack of regulation
- naruhodo 2y agoI started taking 1 x 50mg CBD gummy in the morning about 2 months ago and I can confirm that it is better than L-theanine. My analysis-paralysis is gone. I am moving forward with my life better than I have in 15 years. I was one of the commenters in the HN thread linked by the blog post, and I do find that L-theanine reduces my coffee jitters.
- mg 2y agoThis is great. The author defines their own metrics, is doing their own A/B tests and publishes their interpretation plus the raw data. Imagine a world where all health blogging was like that. Personally, I have not published any results yet, but I have been doing this type of experiments for 4 years now. And collected 48874 data points so far. I built a simple system to do it in Vim: https://www.gibney.org/a_syntax_for_self-tracking https://www.gibney.org/a_syntax_for_self-tracking I also built a bunch of tooling to analyze the data. I think that mankind could greatly benefit from more people doing randomized studies on their own. Especially if we find a way to collectively interpret the data. So I really applaud the author for conducting this and especially for providing the raw data. Reading through the article and the comments here on HN, I wish there was more focus on the interpretation of the experiment. Pretty much all comments here seem to be anecdotal. Let's look at the author's interpretation. Personally, I find that part a bit short. They calculated 4 p-values and write: Technically, I did find two significant results. I wonder what "Technically" means here. Are there "significant results" that are "better" than just "technically significant results"? Then they continue: Of course, I don’t think this means I’ve proven theanine is harmful. So what does it mean? What was the goal of collecting the data? What would the interpretation have been if the data would show a significant positive effect of Theanine? It's great that they offer the raw data. I look forward to taking a look at it later today.
- aszantu 2y agoI found, I take Abt. 4 days to react to stuff. Except for those cheap cooking oils, I get migraines within a time-frame of about 3 hrs.
- brodo 2y agoYour self-tracking syntax looks neat. How do you track if you are not in front of a computer?
- mg 2y agoI write into a text file on my phone. And later move those lines into the file on my computer. It's a bit cumbersome, but not too much. But yeah, I look forward to when I finally get around to writing an app for it.
- aszantu 2y agoCan for myself just say I took the anime for a while but don't think it did anything. Way higher effect was switching to decaf and then drink mushroom coffee for alertness. There are different mixes out there, I just went with a random one from Amazon when I enjoyed some test-packages from chi-coffee. I'm also mixing with cocos cream and cows milk.
- YetAnotherNick 2y agoI wish people can pay for trials on products. e.g. In subreddits for hairfall, people cite all sort of very badly done research that shows some chemical in expensive product as effective, for which the only research is sponsored by the company making it. If 1000 people in that subreddit pays $100, it might be enough for a good trial and knowing the active people there, they would likely pay even more. Same for multivitamins, the research on that is so important yet so bad and biased, and getting million dollar crowdfunding should be possible.
- grumpy-de-sre 2y agoFor anyone looking for a sleep supplement, before you go down the rabbit hole of Theanine, Mg, etc. Try an OTC Azelastine or Fluticasone nasal spray for a month. Turns out my chronic poor quality, restless sleep was a dust mite allergy that I should have figured out and treated a decade ago. Would wake up with a stuffy nose and very dry mouth but didn't have too many issues during the day. I was allergic to my bed. Been using antihistamines, and a dehumidifier for several months now and sleeping better than I have in years. Given how extremely common mite allergies are there's got to be a lot of folks with undiagnosed issues here.
- IlPeach 2y agoThanks, but I'm still missing how I would properly diagnose myself. These symptoms might be all too common ... Anything more reliable?
- collin128 2y agoAn allergy clinic can run these tests for you. Been doing immunotherapy for allergies for 3 years and it is a complete game changer. Last year was the first year I could breathe through my nose for the entire year. No more stuffy months.
- grumpy-de-sre 2y agoYou can always go to an allergist for a skin prick test. I'd say hallmark symptom would be chronic night time congestion worsening while in bed (an area of the house that has a very high density of mite allergen). But running a bit of differential diagnosis on this, * Inflammatory & Allergic Conditions (allergic/non-allergic rhinitis, chronic rhinosinusitis, turbinate hypertrophy, nasal polyps). * Obstructive Sleep Apnea (do a STOP-BANG). * Structural Blockages & Airway Obstructions (deviated septum, adenoid/tonsil hypertrophy, nasal valve collapse, turbinate hypertrophy). * Gastroesophageal Reflux Disease (GERD/LPR).
- wenc 2y agoYou should consider a dust mite vacuum with UV. I bought one on Amazon (this one but you can check YouTube reviews for others). https://www.amazon.com/JIGOO-Vacuum-Cleaner-Dust-Sensor/dp/B0CB821FTX/ https://www.amazon.com/JIGOO-Vacuum-Cleaner-Dust-Sensor/dp/B... I was surprised how much dust this thing picked up (my sheets get washed often, but it’s hard to clean the mattress itself). Back in the day people used to sun dry their mattresses but no one does that these days. This dust mite vacuum picked up half a canister of gunk from my dead skin and environmental dust that has accumulated over the years (and it has a light scattering sensor that tells you how much dust is being sucked up). My nose was clear after sleeping on a vacuumed bed. I now vacuum my bed once a week, and it has really helped. Vacuuming your bed and other fabric surfaces also feels therapeutic. For me, it’s like watching one of those powerwashing videos. You feel cleansed after.
- OuterVale 2y agoSince reading Gwern's essay on nootropics [1] I've wanted to experiment with theanine. Caffeine is obviously a fantastic stimulant, and I take care not to consume it too frequently (I try to limit my intake to no more than three times a week based on the research of Michael Dickens [2]). As such, I have next to no tolerance. As great as having no tolerance is for the productivity benefits, it does have undesirable side effects. A single cup of coffee can get me twitchy and slightly shaky, and a cup of tea past noon can impact my ability to fall asleep. A gripe I have is the lack of good research into the combination of theanine and caffeine, and I think I'd be a good candidate for a blinded test looking into it. I would like to carry one out but really do lack experience in tests of this nature. Does anyone know any good resources for someone interested in learning how to conduct a self-study such as this, including details regarding common pitfalls? [1]: https://gwern.net/nootropic/nootropics https://gwern.net/nootropic/nootropics [2]: https://mdickens.me/2024/04/11/caffeine_self_experiment/ https://mdickens.me/2024/04/11/caffeine_self_experiment/
- carlsborg 2y agoFrom a biology perspective base amino acids (such as theanine) on their own are not generally major modulators of human function. You want to experiment with small molecules, something that binds with proteins such as enzymes which in turn modulate pathways and cell functions. Binders need a energy configuration and 3 dimensional structures that "fits" into such proteins, and individual amino acids dont really cut it. Also the amino acids get rapidly used for protein construction so they dont stick around long. PhDs in the subject can please correct me I am wrong here.
- dr_dshiv 2y agoI am shocked, shocked that he published this without IRB approval. Where are the ethical standards?
- toonalfrink 2y agoOr maybe the stress-reducing effect carries over to the next day? Stress has a habit of not being randomly reset to the default value every morning when you wake up
- metalman 2y agoI like this work a lot.It seems like the sort of thing that if done by thousands of like minded people would build a knowlege base that cuts through the very very messy reality of life, and gets us closer to rules of thumb that might help. chinese medicine with techno characteristics? cyber herbal8sm :) we need an app for this But... data eh? the ONLY repository of data, is genes.vast, tested in deep time, with countless trilions of runs.now running on quintillions of test units. we have access to a tiny portion of the data, but are at the stage of? do you read the text from the right?left? top? bottom?, but of course its read as a gestalt, and so outside of our capacity. What may be accessable, is our enzimatic relationships with the substances in our environment, and how those balances are specific to groups and individuals, but it wont be easy to unravel, records plus actual chemical testing of anything, anywhere, anytime which boils down to "light" sensors, that are capable of seeing and diferentiating the exicitation of molecules under ambiant conditions. what is dismissed by so called science, are the indivuals who survive and thrive under exactly the same conditions that decimate there peers, and how "science" is perfectly happy to call something "luck" and then move towards monitising "bad luck" .....scientificly.....rather that work towards understanding the framework that governs everything
- justlikereddit 2y agoFollowing in the trend of the guy who tried LSD microdosing and concluded with cocksure fanfare it does nothing. Which throws a veil of doubt over these kind of studies. Something is open to be defective in structure or presentation. "Daily intravenous heroin use - a placebo controlled self-administration study" "It does absolutely nothing" Would we all jump to the occasion of believing it, if the writeup is polished enough?
- fredgrott 2y agoI take L-theanine for ADHD 1. Theanine is an analog for Glutamate and Glutamine. 2. Due to indirect relationships to ADHD, Depression, etc. no one take Theanine by itself...I do not. 3. When drugs are created we often have incomplete pictures, for example SSSrIs for depression...we now know its both low levels in serotonin and GABA combined...bias yes I take Theanine, GABA and Glutamine for depression and it does work. One experiment on oneself means very little...I know as I spent 36 months finding the combo that works for my depression and ADHD.
- devonsolomon 2y agoGreat experiment! It’s important to highlight that even in rigorously blinded studies which find a drug ineffective on average, there can still be genuine responders—this is known scientifically as “heterogeneous treatment effects.” Essentially, individuals vary in genetics, metabolism, and neurochemistry, which can cause meaningful differences in drug responsiveness. Thus, an N=1 trial, like yours, might indeed reveal real personal benefits that wouldn’t appear in a population-level analysis. However, systematically performing robust N=1 trials individually across multiple substances can be impractical—too laborious and time-consuming for most people. An interesting business model might be a startup that facilitates personalized N=1 experiments at scale: providing users with high-quality compounds, matched placebos, structured dosing schedules, and data-tracking tools. This could empower more individuals to accurately assess personal efficacy across a wide variety of substances, potentially offering valuable, personalized insights that large-scale clinical trials can’t capture.
- kqr 2y agoI like this idea! To build on it, the schedules could be non-random (systematic with random offset) and test combinations of substances in a way that maximises information both in the cases where substances are independent and when they have suspected interactions.
- devonsolomon 2y agoHard to pull off! But I imagine the wave of Bryan Johnson fans would be game.
- davidanekstein 2y agoI made an app for this called Reflect [1]. You can run self guided experiments for anything you can model as a metric in the app. I just wrote about an experiment I did with nootropic coffee [2]. [1] https://apps.apple.com/us/app/reflect-track-anything/id6463800032 https://apps.apple.com/us/app/reflect-track-anything/id64638... [2] https://open.substack.com/pub/reflectapp/p/my-experience-with-nootropic-coffee https://open.substack.com/pub/reflectapp/p/my-experience-wit...
- re-lre-l 2y agoI've been conducting a self-experiment on the effects of various substances (all legal and easily accessible) on sleep for about four months, following a similar approach to the author. Using two different sleep trackers, I rely solely on absolute, measurable values, avoiding subjective impressions. It's fun but requires time and patience—sometimes I have to restart cycles from scratch. So far, I’ve gathered datasets for Phenibut, Theanine, Piracetam, and Baclofen. The experiment is still ongoing.
- Havoc 2y agoGot pretty powerful anxiety effect from it after taking it a while. Definitely not for me.
- loufe 2y agoThere's a great podcast by Andrew Huberman on dopamine I listened to last week where he discusses theanine at the end. It's a fantastic (but 3 hour long) primer[0] for anyone wanting to learn more. [0] https://www.hubermanlab.com/episode/controlling-your-dopamine-for-motivation-focus-and-satisfaction https://www.hubermanlab.com/episode/controlling-your-dopamin...
- meindnoch 2y agoAh, the Joe Rogan of medicine.
- davidanekstein 2y agoIf anyone is interested in running their own self guided experiments, I made an app for this called Reflect [1]. You can run self guided experiments for anything you can model as a metric in the app. We got in the top 3 on ProductHunt not too long ago [2], and I just wrote about an experiment I did with nootropic coffee [3]. [1] https://apps.apple.com/us/app/reflect-track-anything/id6463800032 https://apps.apple.com/us/app/reflect-track-anything/id64638... [2] https://www.producthunt.com/products/reflect-c052fea3-a982-46c0-aeb9-fe64a114e93c?utm_source=badge-top-post-badge&utm_medium=badge#reflect-ad2b97ed-13af-443d-9f86-d9ed976d2479 https://www.producthunt.com/products/reflect-c052fea3-a982-4... [3] https://open.substack.com/pub/reflectapp/p/my-experience-with-nootropic-coffee https://open.substack.com/pub/reflectapp/p/my-experience-wit...
- bbstats 2y agoAndroid app?
- davidanekstein 2y agoAndroid is on the roadmap, but we haven't started yet. Please comment on and upvote the issue! https://changemap.co/ntl/reflect/task/9239-android-version-of-reflect/ https://changemap.co/ntl/reflect/task/9239-android-version-o...
- Aaronmacaron 2y agoThis sounds exactly like what I want! Alas, no Android app it seems, anyone aware of apps that do the same and are available for web or Android?
- davidanekstein 2y agoWhat is the feature set you're looking for? There are symptom-specific apps and track anything apps, but I'm unaware of any that combines both into a generic solution. We have a roadmap item to implement things on Android. https://changemap.co/ntl/reflect/task/9239-android-version-of-reflect/ https://changemap.co/ntl/reflect/task/9239-android-version-o...
- arthurofbabylon 2y agoI appreciate the high agency and citizen science here. However, I think 1) theanine should not be isolated but ingested in context (via a nice pot of tea) 2) there should be a little bit more respect for statistical methods. While those two points appear to be contradictory (the first appears to inject noise/variability, the second is intended to reduce noise), I believe they each produce a superior result. Regarding the first point (drinking tea instead of ingesting a capsule), theanine does not operate in isolation, but instead interacts significantly with other compounds. Regarding the second point, statistics are the lifeblood of these kinds of trials, what is the purpose of a series of trials without a correct analysis? (I believe it should be standard to devote a huge chunk of time to getting the math right during the analysis, even though it is hard/unintuitive.)
- ck2 2y agoBuy supplements in POWDER FORM when possible if you don't need enteric capsule, etc. It eliminates other contaminant/padding, no capsule materials to worry about. You can then also vary the dose size to see if there is a tipping point where it works. For all we know the author was overweight and the mg of Theanine vs KG of weight was not enough for any effect. And Theanine DEFINITELY "works for me". Not even a question of doubt. I always take a 1/4 teaspoon before bed. If I forget on rare occasion I find myself wondering why I can't fall asleep until I remember.
- gatopingado 2y agoCool experiment! Once the author started taking pills independently of their stress level, the variance of differences diminished a lot. I'd wager this supports the mean reversion hypothesis. Also, while I agree with their general conclusion that theanine probably doesn't reduce stress, I'd give assign more probability to the hypothesis that theanine does work, but in other design settings. For example: drinking tea instead of taking pills, or measuring stress levels after a day instead of an hour, or evaluating the difference across time instead of in time chunks.
- daneel_w 2y agoThis is the first time I've seen a self-study with l-theanine in the context of stress relief. In fact, somehow, it's the first time I've ever seen stress relief mentioned on the topic. For me it has always been about providing a small cognitive boost. The result is clear: for this particular individual, and the specific goal of stress relief, l-theanine does not work. My anecdote: I used l-theanine supplement for about a year straight. To me, the noticable effect was similar to that of a cup of coffee but with practically none of the jitters.
- urbandw311er 2y agoI absolutely love how committed this author is to the science to the point where they managed to remain so objective.
- mattmcknight 2y agoBy giving these things to random people, we don't do a very good job of evaluating their effects. If something works on 10% of the population, randomly selecting participants in an experiment will never give a significant result. If something is generally safe, it seems better to experiment on yourself. The problem this solves is that some things work on some people. Neurotransmitters are blunt instruments that do many things- and are subject to adaptation effects where you get an effect for a while then the system adjusts to the new baseline. Maybe someone out there has a deficiency and adding more helps them for a bit, other people don't have a deficiency and get no results. Other people have a deficiency, something works for a little bit, then the brain adjusts to the new levels and the effect slowly disappears. Until we can measure the level of the physiological effect we are targeting, the n=1 experiment seems like the only real way to see what group you fall into.
- cpncrunch 2y agoThe bbb works the same way in everyone, and prevents it from working. If it did work in 10%, you would see a positive result.
- dostick 2y agoWhat a waste of opportunity and time. All for nothing because author was too lazy to make blank capsules and used Vit D, which of course may have effect. You can buy capsules easily and have true blind test.
- pnm45678 2y ago> I think these are the possibilities: > Theanine works, but I got fake theanine. <…> I’d add one more possibility: “Theanine works but I need a higher dosage to feel the effect.” FWIW my purely anecdotal findings are that supplier does matter. Natural Factors Suntheanine gave me a noticeable effect. Nature’s way L-Theanine did not.
- dworkr 2y ago[dead]
- MichaelDickens 2y agoOP took 200 mg. Tea contains 5–20 mg and people commonly report beneficial effects from tea. If 5 mg is enough for some people then surely 200 mg would be enough for anyone?
- Arch485 2y agoNot necessarily, there are a lot of drugs that have reduced or no effect for certain individuals. Think caffeine or alcohol tolerance.
- slama 2y agoI thought I was crazy/imagining things, but I had a similar experience. Maybe I should try Suntheanine again
- A7C3D5 2y agoI used to take theanine in college, and this was my experience even over a decade ago. Suntheanine was consistently effective and most of the other brands were seemingly inactive or unnoticable. I've always had to order online as all of the brands I've bought in store seem to be bunk. Even still I found tolerance to rise quickly with daily theanine use.
- FigurativeVoid 2y agoAnecdotally, I’ve found that theanine radically increases the vividness and memorability of my dreams. Of course that might be be a great effect depending on the content of my dreams. That could mean deeper sleep, but I’ve not really measured that.
- davedx 2y agoSure it does. Did you read the article?
- FigurativeVoid 2y agoI did. The article makes no claims about dreams or the relationship between dreams and sleep quality.
- gs17 2y agoIt does that for me too, but usually that seems to result in worse sleep.
- tudorconstantin 2y agoA bit unrelated, but try having l theanine after a night of drinking: it makes you wake up fresh and without a hangover because it speeds up alcohol processing and it metabolites by the liver and also prevents alcoholic liver damage. Me and all my friends who tried it say “i wake up totally fresh after theanine”. There’s also a study confirming this: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/16141543/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/16141543/
- Aurornis 2y agoGwern has a large collection of blinded self-experiments. The only reason I suspect it’s not a more valued resource is that his results often contradict the popular wisdom in supplement communities. His experiments with magnesium showed negative results: https://gwern.net/nootropic/magnesium#experiment-1 https://gwern.net/nootropic/magnesium#experiment-1 He tried LSD microdosing when the internet was convinced it was a miracle, but found no benefit and some concerning negative effects: https://gwern.net/nootropic/nootropics#lsd-microdosing https://gwern.net/nootropic/nootropics#lsd-microdosing Contrast those results with some of the unbelievably positive anecdotes you read about magnesium, fish oil, B-vitamins, or even LSD micro dosing causing life changing positive effects. It’s well known that placebo effect is a strong driver of perceived effects of most supplements. The placebo effect becomes much stronger when people are primed to expect large effects. Not coincidentally, the people who report the most dramatic effects are often those who consume large amounts of podcasts, YouTube videos, or social media influencer content about those supplements. If someone listens to a 3-hour Huberman Lab episode where he explains how a “protocol” or supplement will do amazing things while using (and frequently misusing) lots of neurotransmitter names and underpowered mouse studies, that person might become so primed to expect those effects that they’re nearly guaranteed to happen. In a weird way, that means it does actually work for them, but it’s not necessarily because the supplant is producing the outcome. It’s because they’re so deeply primed to expect the outcome (e.g. feeling more energy, relaxing to fall asleep) that they placebo themselves into making it happen.
- danielbln 2y agoTheir microdosing experimentation was questionable. Not methodically, it was quite thorough, but iirc they used unknown strength street blotters and derived all further experimentation from that.
- gwern 2y agoAs I always point out, all of the anecdotes claiming microdosing works are usually using street blotters as well, including the research papers which draw on crowdsourcing to circumvent the obvious problems with using schedule I psychedelics; and the research papers which do use better-validated dosages... don't usually turn up anything more than I did. Plus, it's 2025. If LSD microdosing really worked, after all this interest over the past 15+ years, why is there still so little good evidence?
- floatrock 2y agoAfter reading a few paragraphs about theanine and dopamine and all the other amino acids, anyone else get to > Examine is an independent website that’s respected for summarizing the scientific literature on health and supplements and read that website name as "exa-meen"?
- grvbck 2y agoWhile this may not be a perfectly executed study, the "N=1 trial" part is not the problem. There have been numerous medical and scientific studies with N=1, known as N-of-1 trials. These trials are very useful in chronic conditions where symptoms are stable and measurable, allowing for multiple crossover periods to assess treatment effects accurately. Also…don't forget all the medical discoveries based on self-experimentation: Werner Forssmann performed the first heart catheterization on himself. He got the Nobel prize. Barry Marshal injected himself with heliobacter pylori to prove that it causes stomach ulcers. Also got the Nobel prize. Jessie Lazear allowed himself to be bitten by mosquitoes infected with yellow fever to prove his hypothesis that mosquitoes were the vector for transmission. No Nobel prize, but he did contract the disease, thus proving his hypothesis…before dying from yellow fever two weeks later.
- me-vs-cat 2y agoNobel candidates cannot be deceased.
- gs17 2y ago>Werner Forssmann performed the first heart catheterization on himself. He got the Nobel prize. In case anyone else was confused how it would be possible to perform heart surgery on yourself, he did it through a vein in his arm, which is still incredibly impressive: >In 1929, he put himself under local anesthesia and inserted a catheter into a vein of his arm. Not knowing if the catheter might pierce a vein, he put his life at risk. Forssmann was nevertheless successful; he safely passed the catheter into his heart. He also had to trick the operating-room nurse into thinking he was operating on her.
- pjot 2y agoThrough the arm, I believe, is still the way it’s performed today!
- ppetty 2y agoI’m not sure, but seems like there should be a difference between someone conducting research while testing theanine versus someone just consuming theanine to battle anxiety. That’s probably been said in other comments in a more scientific way. But it also seems like consuming yummy hot tea that happen to have theanine would be another relevant method for comparison. Maybe placebo, theanine pill, and tea drink (or other naturally occurring food source)? It just seems like the tea or act of drinking tea and the time it takes might be relaxing??
- kayodelycaon 2y agoI think the experiment is based on a fundamentally flawed assumption the time to metabolize medication is identical to time for the body to return to baseline. Regular Vitamin-D supplements can taken once a week or daily and have the same long term effect. And for a sample of N=1: The L-theanine side effects of one dose last several days. Taking it daily makes the side effects significantly worse.
- wbharding 2y agoWish more people would report their placebo experiments. I have periodically run them on myself, and am consistently surprised how I have been unable to differentiate substances I thought were helpful (adderall, kratom) end up indistinguishable from placebo over 20+ trials. I guess that my main takeaway was that it is hard to pinpoint when subtle drugs work. My second takeaway was that the data I generated would prob be useful to share, but with no examples anyone cared I opted against. This story inspires me to potentially revisit some of my past placebo tests and show my data.
- trashface 2y agoI have taken a lot at times, up to 1-2g per day in powder form. I mix it with my tea, which also has theanine. However I can't say it really helped with anxiety. TFA says some people claim its more effective than xanax. Maybe it works like that for some people, but not for me - it doesn't even put a dent in my anxiety - which can be pretty bad (struggling to leave the house). I've never taken xanax either, although my doc once gave me 10 pills of lorezepam for acute anxiety situations. Those basically had no effect on me too. Theanine does reduce caffeine jitters although I usually only have that problem with coffee. These days I take 200mg most days mostly out of habit.
- egberts1 2y agoN is the way.
- bayindirh 2y agoAs a person who drinks tea for 30+ year old in a country which is top 3 in world tea consumption, I can say that theanine works. The biggest advantage of it when compared to caffeine, it doesn't create that tension in the body. You just work and concentrate. While it's not as powerful as caffeine, it allows one to work very efficiently and for long hours, if they choose to do so. Also, against the popular myth, black tea / theanine doesn't affect iron absorption that much (if any), if it was, the whole country would be anemic, and we are not.
- andix 2y agoIn my experience most pharmaceuticals and nutrients are rather well researched, and the results of scientific studies can be trusted most of the times. So if most studies don't show a significant improvement, the substance just doesn't work. It's even the opposite, just because a study showed some improvement over a bigger population, it doesn't mean it works for you, or the improvement is noticeable to you.
- duffpkg 2y agoThis is better conceived and more carefully controlled than the vast majority of the published research I see pouring out every week.
- ggolani 2y agosorry this experiment setup suffers from the photon dual slit experiment problems. How anxious am i really if i am observing my stress levels, noting down pre and post measurements? Placebo or not, this level of mindfulness is probably the biggest anxiety affecting factor so it invalidates the experiment.
- throwaway-blaze 2y agoSince no one has mentioned it yet, given the author felt like Japanese tea was providing a calming / anti-anxiety effect but with a much lower potential dose of Theanine....I wonder what would happen if he repeated the experiment with a sub-lingual dosing mechanism? It seems like this would be closer to taking the tea in your mouth and savoring it over multiple sips across a few minutes, and could explain the smaller apparent dose having an effect (some of the Theanine goes straight into the bloodstream and bypasses the digestive tract).
- Projectiboga 2y agoAmino Acid therapy requires an empty stomach, and the postulated effects usually require larger doses. But that would blow up his experiment design. Also there can be time of day widows for efficacy. Science has gotten far with lock and key receptor models. But some of this stuff can be sensitive to time and cofactors, beyond genetic and epigenetic individual variance.
- gocartStatue 2y ago(Maybe it’s because tea is better than coffee?) Coffee contains several ingredients that act as opioid receptor antagonists, which can be unpleasant (as in "reverse the pleasant / calming effects of endogenic opioids"). Some people seem to be more affected than others, kinda like with the intensive gastrin release / coffee induced instapoop.
- mcv 2y ago> Many people try theanine and report wow or great for ADHD or cured my (social) anxiety or changing my life. I'd never heard of that. All my life I've drank enormous amounts of tea. To the point that I've had withdrawal symptoms from physical caffeine addiction. But I'm only recognizing more ADHD symptoms the more I read about it. (Not a controlled experiment; I'm aware of that.) I am pretty relaxed, though.
- F0UKYOU-HN 2y agoThe point to the story is that he ran his own trial on his own body and found that there wasn't any benefit. Guys, it's just an opinion...
- reverendsteveii 2y ago>One study they review found that theanine worked better than alprazolam (xanax) for acute anxiety. The correct response would be, “That’s impossible, and the fact that normal scientific practices could lead to such a conclusion casts doubt on everything.” But the review sort of takes it at value and moves on. “That’s impossible, and the fact that normal scientific practices could lead to such a conclusion reveals why we don't use single studies to draw conclusions as it's not only possible but expected that some percentage of study results are going to be well outside 2 standard deviations from the mean.” I just wanna nitpick that because one of my pet peeves is people not realizing that you can follow the scientific method really well and still end up with outlier data.