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Buy European Made. Support European Values
- praptak 2y agoFrom #1 to flagged in minutes. The times are not very peaceful.
- dackdel 2y ago[flagged]
- dickiedyce 2y agoAh ha. Is this the start of MAIA - "Make America Irrelevant Again"? Do they really need the help? Seems like their about to do a great job on that already... ;-)
- lynx97 2y ago[dead]
- DHolzer 2y agoI don't see this as an attack, but rather a push for independence from the US. I don't want America to be irrelevant, but i don't feel like I can trust them as much as I did before. Both private and in business.
- lpcvoid 2y agoYeah. I feel great common ground with half of the American people, who share European values such as democracy, right to self defense and striving towards a sustainable future. It's the other (republican) half which is in power every 4 years which makes cooperation on these issues almost impossible, and you can't just ignore the US every 4 years. We need independence, and the US needs to think about where they want to be as a nation in 20 years.
- rf15 2y agoAny great power when they see a previously smaller player pull remotely even: "This is an attack! They're destabilizing the region!"
- soderfoo 2y agoWhy would anyone put so much trust in to the US in the past? I'm American, an army vet, and proud. Yet, I fail to identify anything other than the US acting in their own self interest since WW2. The list is long, but to name a few, Vietnam, War on terror, mass surveillance network, etc... People are waxing poetic about an America that never was.
- 2y ago
- fsflover 2y agoSee also: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43104684 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43104684
- amarcheschi 2y agoI just suggested via the form bpm power, an Italian electronics e-commerce. Sometimes Amazon isn't the cheapest choice, even when taking into account shipping costs
- zoul 2y agoNot every european company embodies european values. As an example, Signal is listed as a US company people might want a european replacement for – and yet Signal represents european values much better than many of the alternatives.
- c03 2y agoThis is a great point where nationality does not reflect political values. Many Americans exist that do not carry the opinion of their government, as do many Russians. If a global set of "Don't be an asshole" values could be defined, put into words, shared and progressed, it would have much greater value to a consumer and the world than merely going back to nationalism and protectionism.
- a12k 2y ago> Many Americans exist that do not carry the opinion of their government, as do many Russians. I can’t speak for Russia because I have no data, but most Americans don’t carry the opinion of this government.
- Goto80 2y agoIf that is the case, how did this government get a majority?
- atwrk 2y agoVoter suppression: https://www.gregpalast.com/trump-lost-vote-suppression-won/ https://www.gregpalast.com/trump-lost-vote-suppression-won/
- re-thc 2y ago> how did this government get a majority? That's not what people voted for (agreeing with the government). They were given choices and to pick what they felt they preferred.
- 2y ago
- BoingBoomTschak 2y agoWhy add "Support European Values" to the title when I can't find it anywhere on the page? Pointless inclusion for something with quite the potential for polemics... EDIT: whoops, either I'm blind or some JS blocking hid it from my eyes...
- amarcheschi 2y agoI see it when I click, it's literally big black text on white background, both mobile and desktop view
- meijer 2y agoFor me, "Support European Values." is prominently displayed on the page.
- OvbiousError 2y agoAt least on the desktop the prominent greeting text is "Buy European Made. Support European Values"?
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- pastage 2y agoIs this polemic? Seem more like it is a choice people can make, same as American freedom fries.
- mardifoufs 2y agoYes, and it's just as cringy as freedom fries.
- rapnie 2y agoAlso the entire site keeps in the dark who is behind this initiative. You can become a coordinator / collaborator and "Reach out to our team at catzlaura@proton.me". Whose team? I always find campaigns like these with anonymous groups behind it kind of fishy. Have a honest campaign? Make yourself known.
- stunami 2y agoSure, but its turtles all the way down. How many are hosted on AWS, Google or Microsoft? How many are using Windows or macOS? How many use nvidia, etc.
- BoingBoomTschak 2y agoYou could say that ASML (Netherlands) and TSMC (Taiwan) are the final turtles though.
- timeon 2y agoYes, but still important question for the future.
- torlok 2y agoThere's a size point at which rolling your own infrastructure is worth it, and may get government support. Help grow companies you want to see succeed.
- ssssvd 2y ago"Don't rent from Amazon! Buy from Dell, HP, SuperMicro, Cisco, Juniper, Intel and Nvidia instead." It's all American below AWS/GCP abstractions as well.
- AlecSchueler 2y agoThat's the point, we need to start moving away from that and this is how we make a start.
- meijer 2y agoIt's not all or nothing.
- OvbiousError 2y agoAbsence of a (high-level services) cloud provider is a big problem. I hope that changes at some point, but probably impossible to start something like that without measures in place to make the existing offering less attractive.
- achempion 2y agoIt’s so iconic that they have a cookie banner covering 60% of my phone screen.
- torlok 2y ago[deleted, can't read, sorry]
- GreenWatermelon 2y agoBUT, and this is important, there is a big clear "Reject all" button. My problem with cookie banners isn't their mere existence, but that the scum if the earth make it almost impossible to reject data collection.
- 63stack 2y agoI know there is some rule about commenting about this on HN, but a website about "buy European made" that immediately starts with _two_ cookie banners about "Your privacy rights under _US_ state privacy laws" does seem weird. (I'm not in the US)
- sharas- 2y ago[flagged]
- belter 2y ago"We Are Fighting Against a Dictator Backed by a Traitor" - https://youtu.be/j51HZncBvEI https://youtu.be/j51HZncBvEI https://www.independants-senat.fr/post/claude-malhuret-situation-en-ukraine-et-s%C3%A9curit%C3%A9-en-europe https://www.independants-senat.fr/post/claude-malhuret-situa...
- zoobab 2y agoWe should migrate away from Github, an american company.
- tasuki 2y agoAnd stop posting on this american forum. Sheesh.
- AlecSchueler 2y agoIf every discussion like this continues to be flagged we should consider it.
- apwell23 2y ago[flagged]
- meijer 2y ago> maybe they can adopt "stop begging USA for military protection" as their value first. Basically we did that already. But the preferred wording is "Don't rely on the USA because they are no longer trustworty."
- apwell23 2y ago> Basically we did that already. You mean they were always capable of doing it but choose to fleece USA instead ? Ironically proving trump right.
- surgical_fire 2y agoAre you pretending that projecting power across the Atlantic was not something done by the US to protect its own interests? You think US kept bases in Europe out of goodness? I am not sure if you are naive or just plain dumb. To be frank, I love that the US decided to sacrifice its own power, forcing Europe to prop up its own defense industry instead of giving money to the US so it would strengthen itself first and foremost
- apwell23 2y agoyou are talking about something else now. I responded to "we did it already" . afaik europe is still heavily dependent on usa and nothing actually has changed. can you stay on topic and not resort to personal insults.
- surgical_fire 2y agoI think you just don't understand how international relations work. The US wanted those bases in Europe for its own interests. And you might not be aware, but the EU just announced a hefty package to rearm itself. I wouldn't be surprised if in the comings months the US is out of NATO and those US bases in Europe are shut down. And it is not really an insult, I still wonder if you are naive or dumb. I am friends with some very dumb people, it's not a character fault.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- ssssvd 2y agoWouldn't you implicitly support Amazon, Google, Microsoft, Nvidia, Intel, Dell/HP, Snowflake/Databricks, Datadog, etc. with almost every sale though? For many European businesses, infrastructure and platform costs likely exceed their own margins. In that sense, a lot of European businesses are really just "value-added resellers" of US hardware and platforms.
- pastage 2y agoAgreed Europe has never had to care about that because we have always supported the US. Now there is always Loongson/Zhaoxin to base your infra on. Considering the way the US is heading you might see people considering a "neutral party" in the war. AWS is nice and all not unique though.
- ssssvd 2y agoYou absolutely could go bare-metal with emerging local platforms and a Chinese stack — that’s the path Russia (and obviously China itself) is heading down. But... Equinix? US. Digital Realty? US. NTT? Japan. Interxion? US. CyrusOne? US. That’s your top five DC/colo operators in Europe. Same story with Tier-1 and Tier-1.5 ISPs. It’s not just software. It’s not even just hardware. It’s the whole stack — down to power grids, land property rights, and regulatory frameworks. Nationalization? Multidecade supply chain reconfiguration? Trillions in investment to rebuild local capacity — likely still with deep reliance on China for core infra components. Europe isn’t just "a bit dependent" — it’s completely entangled.
- surgical_fire 2y agoAnd that is not an excuse to do nothing. Much to the opposite, it should be an acknowledgement of risk, and that steps should be taken to have an infrastructure less dependent on foreign nations. Especially when they are hostile, such as the US right now.
- ssssvd 2y agoWould the investor even outlive the investment though? Imagine building data centers in the UK — only to get Brexit halfway through. Any long-term, shared investment relies on continuous, guaranteed political and economic unity. Today it’s the US that’s hostile — but how confident can you be that tomorrow it won’t be a PiS-led Poland, or even an AfD-led Germany?
- eye-scuzzy 2y agoWhat kind of values? Hypocrisy at scale?
- jxjnskkzxxhx 2y agoGo on, tell us more.
- nonrandomstring 2y agoKeep supporting the values of freedom, democracy, self-determination. These are not national or cultural preserves. There are plenty of fascists and mean-minded frightened little people here in Europe, just as the body of US America remains founded on liberty.
- josefrichter 2y agoCould we avoid politics on the tech scene? I think we're all better than that, and we know the tech scene thrives through collaboration, not isolationism.
- dailykoder 2y agoNo, because politics are essential. Yes, they are annoying. Yes, they are difficult at time, but they are important.
- arkadiytehgraet 2y agoTech is partially, some would say even mostly, responsible for the current political atmosphere and climate, so no, neither we are any better than this, nor should it be avoided.
- coffeeaddict1 2y ago> Could we avoid politics on the tech scene? In the situation we are in currently? It's almost impossible unfortunately due to our political leaders.
- wk_end 2y agoCould you tell that to Peter Thiel or Elon Musk, please?
- inductive_magic 2y agoStartup CEO from Europe here. How am I supposed to turn a blind eye to the risk that the dependency from the US has become lately?
- nc 2y agoHow is US dependency a risk?
- inductive_magic 2y agoHow are you not aware that the US painted "we are no longer a reliable partner" all above the sky?
- landsman 2y agoEvery country should be pround on theirs companies, producing good products and paying taxes. Catalogs like this can be a good discovery that some company like this even exist.
- jansan 2y agoWhat are "European Values"? Are they identical to the values of the EU, that are in section 2 of the Treaty of European Union: "The Union is founded on the values of respect for human dignity, freedom, democracy, equality, the rule of law and respect for human rights, including the rights of persons belonging to minorities."[1] Also, did all the listed companies sign a codex that they will adhere to those values? And finally, in which way do non-European companies, for example Amazon, violate those values? [1] https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/HTML/?uri=CELEX:12012M002 https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/HTML/?uri=CEL...
- netsharc 2y agoHonestly the way the EU pays countries to catch refugees leaving their shorelines headed to the EU, I'm not even sure the EU conforms to that statement... Amazon makes their warehouse workers pee in bottles, much respect for dignity there. Oh wait I hear that happens in Non-EU Britain, so that's not a problem! /s
- AlecSchueler 2y ago> Amazon makes their warehouse workers pee in bottles, much respect for dignity there. Oh wait I hear that happens in Non-EU Britain, so that's not a problem! /s Do you think the population supports that or there an inevitable lag between real-world actions and political responses?
- fsflover 2y ago> did all the listed companies sign a codex that they will adhere to those values? I guess they must follow the EU laws.
- paganel 2y ago[flagged]
- gizzlon 2y agoEven ignoring the moral and ethical values, doing business with US based companies seems much more risky now. I'm specifically thinking of: 1) tariffs / trade wars and 2) The big tech's total and swift capitulation to Donal and Elon. They have shown themselves to be totally spineless and pathetic. Why is that a risk? Donald is erratic. What if you prime minister piss off Trump in some way, and he orders US companies to pause business with your country? What happens to you AWS? Or your Google account? Or even Office? 2) might seem far-fetched to you, but there's a million ways this could happen. Cutting off all support to Ukraine seemed far-fetched to me at least, just a few months ago :(
- 0xCaponte 2y agoEuropean values, like consumer protection, privacy, and environmental standards, are, in my view, among the best in the world. However, bureaucracy and politics push them in the wrong direction or tie everything up. I had never thought much about this before, but I now plan to look more into supporting European industries. However, only for products of comparable quality. If a product doesn’t measure up, I don’t see many people choosing it just for the sake of buying European.
- kennethwolters 2y agonot an attempt at rebutting or so, just adding my thoughts: It doesn't matter if the product is great because of those values if there is a lack product (bc politics and bureaucracy make it infeasible to produce). Makes you think if those values might contribute to the bad politics and bureaucracy. And if so, how.
- piva00 2y agoWhy is it always attributed to politics and bureaucracy when there's a much more obvious point on why European products take a long while to gain market share even inside the continent: the EU is made of 27 independent countries with their own culture, and language. A consumer product created in the Netherlands needs to be adapted to be marketed across 27 different countries, sales teams need to know how to approach each of them, manuals, UI, etc. need to be translated into the customers' languages, so on and so forth. Is there bureaucracy? Of course, some of it is to uphold values, some might be unnecessary but it's not the main obstacle faced by European companies to grow themselves into the whole of the EU. Imagine for a moment that each US State had its own centuries-old way of living, its own language, and history separated from the US as a nation, there would be much more friction for products to spread around the whole country, there would be much more localised versions of the same market niche, exactly what happens in Europe. A federalisation of Europe is a slow process, it will take generations to integrate all these different cultures, streamline production pipelines to allow products to be released across many different member-states at once, etc. Ironically the US becoming more insular and adversarial might be a catalyst for European companies to do so, there will be quite a few market gaps opening up in the wake of US's influence retraction.
- ysofunny 2y agodon't european values include Monarchy?
- meijer 2y agoNo, that has now become a value of American Republicans.
- n4r9 2y agoThe opposite. European values are closely tied to enlightenment and the republicanist ideas that came out of the French revolution.
- xxs 2y agoI guess that's joke - indeed, in the EU - Northern counties + flat lands + Spain[x] are monarchies where the monarchs have all but representation powers. You can add Monaco (which is not an independent State), if you really wish. Then there is France and the revolution in 1789 which (outside the US) is considered a big thing. [x]: Sweden, Denmark, Belgium, Netherlands; Norway's also a monarchy but not an EU member state.
- rsynnott 2y agoThere are no 'conventional'/old-fashioned monarchies in Europe (except, arguably, for Liechtenstein). Some European countries have monarchs, who are powerless figureheads; executive power rests with the government (even in most European republics, executive power rests with the government, not the president).
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- Aloisius 2y agoNot really powerless. They have powers, but people see them as ceremonial. They're not of course ceremonial, rather it's traditional that they don't fire the loaded gun they're given and everyone pretends like they're not only incapable of it, but doing so would end the monarchy. The truth is, a monarch with significant ambition could, if the right situation arises or is engineered, convince the populace that their exercise of power is necessary to save the country.
- finnjohnsen2 2y agoI am working on this, and here are my personal observations thus far; # Low hanging fruit: - Food and clothes, like Coca Cola, Snickers, Nike, Levis, The North Face etc - Mondelez. This is hard because they own so much. But obvious things like Oreo and Corn Flakes are easy. - Social Media I rarely use. For me this was Snapchat, Instagram, WhatsApp, X, Bluesky and Messenger. # Harder to ditch - Facebook. Family :( - Microsoft; Windows, VSCode, MS Teams, GitHub - Google; Gmail is my primary for 15+ years, gDrive, gCalendar, google.com - Amazon AWS, Google Cloud, Microsoft Azure. - Streaming: YouTube, NetFlix, HBO and Disney+. This will be difficult. - LLM, Claude and OpenAI-things - Steam - Discord - My Tesla model Y. # Impossible - Smart Phone OS: Google Android or Apple iPhone/iOS - Intel / AMD, hardware in general is difficult So, this is all work in progress, but I keep this document in my Google Drive (gah!) and I'm adding more stuff every day and trying to shift my habbits.
- gizzlon 2y agoI would argue to that not all US companies are the same. Both ethically and based on risk. Tesla is directly supporting Elon, and IMO much worse than, say, Netflix. Also probably more risky, as Elon is probably more pilled that the CEO of Netflix and Google
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- bambax 2y agoI think an important distinction is whether you send money to those providers or not. Using free services with a strong adblocker is probably a net loss for them. And regarding streaming... the high seas are very welcoming ;-) PS: Did you mean Mondelez? The only thing I ever bought on their list of brands[0] is 'Lu', but I will make sure I don't anymore ;-) [0] https://www.mondelezinternational.com/our-brands/ https://www.mondelezinternational.com/our-brands/
- finnjohnsen2 2y agoThank you; Mondelez
- jisnsm 2y agoWhat are “European values”? I was born in Europe, been here all my life, and I don’t think such thing exists - values that are shared among all Europeans AND that set us apart from other regions. Europeans are much, much more culturally segregated than people from outside Europe seem to think.
- meijer 2y agoYou don't see it, like the fish who does not see the water.
- jisnsm 2y agoVery philosophical and completely empty. (Like almost everything in philosophy)
- fsflover 2y agoIt just means that those values are easier to see when you live in or at least travel to other places and compare.
- jxjnskkzxxhx 2y agoIt's not empty. It often happens that you don't notice things that you've seen all your life. It's only when you go somewhere that you notice the difference.
- t_mann 2y agoI get why people might feel this impulse, but they should realize that it follows the same logic as tariffs. You do not gain by closing yourself off from the world. Having the choice among the best products in the world is prosperity. Whether you restrain yourself by choice or by force, it's the same zero-sum mindset. Free trade, with some exceptions for fledgling industries, is one of the rare cases that makes everyone better off. Unfortunately, even the simplest explanation [0] is a bit unintuitive, which may explain why trade restrictions are one of the few things popular among parts of the left and the right. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparative_advantage https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparative_advantage
- baxtr 2y agoFor me this is not about retaliation but about being self reliant.
- t_mann 2y agoWhat you should really aim for is companies that can win in the market. "Found European" instead of "Buy European" if you will. Right now might be a good time to try and reverse some of the brain drain into US tech.
- fsloth 2y agoThis is not about value signaling. It’s a reaction to the fact that US is willing to shutdown US service offerings and hardware owned by counter parties for political arm twisting. US products are great. But suddenly they look just as risky as Chinese offerings for any critical infrastructure.
- rndmio 2y agoI think you're ignoring the externalities of supporting a business/country that is doing things you don't agree with. If ACo can sell me widget cheaper than BCo because they dump the polluting manufacturing waste in a local river it's perfectly rational to decide not to deal with them. The intent is to make them change their behavior by impacting their business. Should we ignore the effects of our purchases just because we can get something cheaper or better?
- BaudouinVH 2y agoDigital products only : https://european-alternatives.eu/ https://european-alternatives.eu/
- fsflover 2y agoRecent discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43104684 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43104684
- lou1306 2y agoNice initiative, but it is a bit naive to list Ray-Ban as an alternative to Oakley when they are both owned by (Italy-based) Luxottica.
- benterix 2y agoWhat is funny (or sad) is that this submission is now flagged. A list with very interesting tech entries (I had no idea Poland had an actual RAM/storage factory, not just distribution).
- q3k 2y agoGoodRAM makes modules/drives but not the DRAM/NAND chips themselves. They're still pretty good products, though - as the name suggests :).
- beretguy 2y ago[flagged]
- on_the_train 2y agoIt's just another thinly veiled politics post
- dang 2y agoUsers usually typically flag advocacy/rallying posts on HN, especially if they make the frontpage. It doesn't have to do with the specific cause being advocated. It's because they're off topic on HN since they don't primarily appeal to intellectual curiosity. We also tend to ban such sites, for the same reason. This has been the case for many years, and it isn't a judgment on either the site or the cause—it's just about the scope of this forum. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- tdiff 2y agoWhat is "european values", exactly? It seems to be used to mean something "good", as "democracy" nowadays.
- fsflover 2y agoThere are already comments discussing this here, https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_values https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_values
- baxtr 2y agoHow come this is flagged now?
- tmikaeld 2y agoMistral uses Cerebras for their Lé Chat, which is even hosted in the US.
- mogall 2y agoI made an account specifically to post this comment here. I went to this website because i've been looking to buy a non-chinese wireless keyboard and mouse lately. So i looked up "keyboard" in the searchbar and the first company that came up in the search results is Logitech. And let me tell you, i spent last 2 months driving to every single tech shop and outlet imaginable(in a reasonable distance) and every single Logitech keyboard that i checked was made in china. Every single one. I'd know there were any keyboards not made in china, because i'd buy one on the spot, and i didn't. I don't understand what's the purpose of this website then. What european values are bing spoken of here? Outsorcing everything to cheap chinese labour? Is this website a SEO backend? Some elaborate corpo prank? Someone please explain.
- tmikaeld 2y agoProbably SEO farm. Clearly not what it's purposed to be.. It's rightfully flagged
- maxglute 2y agoManufacturing small % of value add. Spend $100 on keyboard, $20 goes to PRC, $80 goes to brand country. You pick whether $80 to goes to US company or Swiss company.
- throwaway_20357 2y ago"Solely made in China" is true for many electronic product categories, unfortunately. I love China but don't like any country dominating manufacturing to the extent we seem to have reached. For keyboards there is at least still the Topre Realforce. It is made in Japan. I am quite happy with it.
- MasterYoda 2y agohttps://european-alternatives.eu/ https://european-alternatives.eu/ https://isitamerican.eu/ https://isitamerican.eu/
- Farfignoggen 2y agoThe EU and Canada, UK, Australia, Mexico/etc need some new Trade Pact to counter What Trump is doing and to reduce their dependency on the US as a trading partner longer term! The Social democracies around the world are Trump's/Crony Capitalists' target because the Social democracies provide for the health care for their citizens instead of those countries letting the Crony Capitalists bleed the citizens of those Social Democracies dry! The Social Democracies provide for other progressive social Safety Net programs and education benefits that benefit the Social Democratic societies as a whole and not just the 10% most wealthy! Trump and the Republican Party wants to get rid of the Entire New Deal legislation and return the US back to a regulatory structure that existed in the Pre Sherman Antitrust Act(1890) days in America when the Robber Baron controlled Crony Capitalistic Trusts had free reign and the US Economy was effectively cornered by the Robber Baron Trusts and hardly free market at all! The Social Democracies need look at the US as not sharing the same values as the Social Democracies in the world and those Social Democracies should have been taking measures since 1980 to reduce any dependency on the US economically! The US Should be Actively Labeled a Crony Capitalist Country and one that is Oligarch Dominated and not really a Free Market Capitalistic country! And Trump/Crony Capitalists are actively trying to destabilize the Canadian economy as well as the economies of Mexico and South America!
- thunkshift1 2y agoAtmanirbhar europe
- attendant3446 2y agoI don't see the point. Why should it be European (or American, Japanese, Chinese or whatever)? Shouldn't it be better value/quality? Not everything is better just because it's European. I believe that if someone is doing something great (incl. privacy policy, support, etc.) it shouldn't matter if it's European or from somewhere else. I live in the EU and I often see this cult of people deliberately buying worse things just because it's European. Yet there are many areas where a European alternative is worse than the imported one. I'd say support quality and innovation, not nationality.
- AlecSchueler 2y agoHave you ever heard the term voting with your wallet? Well, you're not only voting for the company whose product you're buying, you're also enriching the country that houses them. People in Europe are increasingly worried about hostility from the US and many people are rapidly trying to reduce their support for and reliance on the ruling regime.
- attendant3446 2y agoI understand that. But I also think that manufacturers in Europe should do better and not just try to survive on patriotism. Better products == better sales. After all, we live in a capitalist world.
- AlecSchueler 2y agoI don't necessarily agree that better products sell the best. Better marketing, better sales, that's the capitalism I know, and European companies would do well to cash in on this generational marketing opportunity.
- attendant3446 2y agoOkay, that's true, I agree - marketing is the main driver of sales. But it should be more than just "being European". At least it should not cost significantly more than comparable imported equivalents.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]