13 ms·

I really wish Apple would make a MacBook Air variant with display quality on par with the iPad Pro or MacBook Pro (ProMotion/120hz and XDR/HDR, at least). The s

I really wish Apple would make a MacBook Air variant with display quality on par with the iPad Pro or MacBook Pro (ProMotion/120hz and XDR/HDR, at least). The screen quality is the only reason I currently use the Pro despite its chunkier weight, since the local compute/memory of the Air is already plenty for me (and most users). The iPad Pro proves that weight and battery life is no excuse here for the lack of state-of-the-art display tech in the MacBook Air. And as for cost — the base 14” MacBook Pro M4 (at $1600) isn’t significantly more expensive than the 15” MacBook Air M4 configured with same CPU/RAM/SSD (at $1400). It’s really quite a shame that the iPad Pro hardware is in many way a better MacBook Air than the MacBook Air, crippled primarily by iOS rather than hardware.

klausa 2y ago
I wish for that machine too; and the price delta between the Macs is why I expect this will never happen. And unfortunately, I'd rather spend the extra bucks than go back to 60hz. Apple seems quite content with making 120hz a feature of "Pro" models across the line (iPads, iPhones, Macs).
- torstenvl 2y ago
  Portability is a pro feature. The truth of the matter is that Apple does not currently sell a single premium device. Every single one requires serious compromises.
overstay8930 2y ago
I know Apple wants to differentiate ProMotion as a Pro feature, but even non-tech people I know are wondering why Android phones run smoother than iPhones. Stuff that would be completely unheard of purely because of how noticeable 60hz vs 120hz is. Actual reputational damage is going on because of these poor decisions, I’m not surprised iPhones are struggling to obtain new market share. They just look like old and slow phones to most normal people now, “look how nice and smooth it looks” is such an easy selling point compared to trying to pretend people care about whatever Apple Intelligence is.
- crazygringo 2y ago
  > but even non-tech people I know are wondering why Android phones run smoother than iPhones. Stuff that would be completely unheard of purely because of how noticeable 60hz vs 120hz is. Are they? I'm a tech person and I can barely notice it at all. And I don't think I have a single non-tech friend who is even aware of the concept of video refresh rate. Whenever there's something that doesn't feel smooth about an interface, it's because the app/CPU isn't keeping up. I've honestly never understood why anyone cares about more than 60hZ for screens, for general interfaces/scrolling. (Unless it's about video game response time, but that's not about "running smoother".)
  - Jcampuzano2 2y ago
    Yeah I think when they say non-tech people they mean a subset of people who know a bit about refresh rates (example being avid PC gamers for instance), but I'd still say the vast majority of people cannot tell 60 to 120. That or its not something they think about. Certainly if they had both side by side they may be able to notice a difference, but in everyday use it makes no real difference to the vast majority of people. Anecdotally even though I do use Android myself, everyone around me still think iPhones look the smoothest (albeit most of them have never even touched a quality phone running android)
    - Ataraxic 2y ago
      It's one of those things where once you have used it, you will notice it. Given most iOS users aren't swapping between pro and non pro models, it's not something you think about.
      - deleted 2y ago
        [deleted]
    - smallmancontrov 2y ago
      They don't know the words but they definitely notice it. "Why is it so smooth/rough?"
ragazzina 2y ago
>I really wish Apple would make a MacBook Air variant with display quality on par with the iPad Pro or MacBook Pro >The screen quality is the only reason I currently use the Pro Well why should they, you already bought the more expensive one.
- electrograv 2y ago
  I’ve considered trying an ultralight PC laptop with a superior screen. But the sad state of reality is that: (1) Windows these days feels like a constant battle against forcibly installed adware / malware. (2) Linux would be great, but getting basic laptop essentials like reliable sleep/wake and power management to work even remotely well in Linux continues to be a painful losing battle. (3) Apple’s M series chips’ performance and efficiency is still generations ahead of anyone else in the context of portable battery-powered fanless work; nobody else has yet come close to matching apple here, though there is hope Qualcomm will deliver more competition soon (if the silicon’s raw potential is not squandered by Microsoft). Just because Apple’s competition has been complacent and lagging for many years, doesn’t render irrelevant any feedback to Apple regarding what professional laptop users would like.
  - olyjohn 2y ago
    You don't buy a PC and try to run MacOS on it do you? Then why do people keep buying random laptops and then complaining when Linux doesn't run on it? You buy a laptop from a vendor who designs them to run Linux out of the box. Also, Apple's power management isn't flawless either. It used to be fantastic, but I've never, ever seen a laptop that has to charge for 15 minutes before you can even boot it from a flat battery. This seems to happen if I leave my laptop powered off for more than a few days. Like, turned completely off, not sleeping with the lid shut.
    - electrograv 2y ago
      > Then why do people keep buying random laptops and then complaining when Linux doesn't run on it? You buy a laptop from a vendor who designs them to run Linux out of the box. Because: (1) Laptop models designed to run Linux out of the box are very scarce, with very few options to choose from. (2) Of the few that do exist, I’ve never seen any even remotely close to being competitive with Apple’s laptops (in terms of hardware quality, and good performance with excellent power efficiency / fanless / thermals / battery life). Part of that is due to Apple’s monopoly on the superiority of their M series chips. But the rest I assume comes from less R&D investment generally in the Linux laptop space due to it being such a small niche, unfortunately.
r0fl 2y ago
Price drop Double the ram And yet a complaining comment makes its way to the top. This blows my mind! People will literally complain no matter what
- HatchedLake721 2y ago
  Wait until you hear that the new iPad Air doesn't give permission to run a Kubernetes cluster on it. Happens every year
- ProZsolt 2y ago
  Doesn't matter to me if I still have to buy the chunky Pro to get a decent display. The current Air is great as an entry level device, but there is an underserved segment here.
kokada 2y ago
Hell, I would be happy if Apple at least enabled the virtualization instructions that are already available in the Mx chips inside the iPads, and allowed e.g.: something like UTM in Apple Store with Hypervisor support. It would be a good differentiator between the cheaper iPads running Ax chips vs the more expensive iPads running Mx. Considering the powerful hardware, the form factor and the good keyboard (I have a used Apple Magic Keyboard paired with our iPad Air M2), if I could virtualize an actual Linux distro to get some job done in the iPad it would be great. But no, you are restricted to a cripped version of UTM that can't even run JIT and because of that is really slow because of that.
- gloxkiqcza 2y ago
  If Apple offered macOS VM as a (paid) app for iPads I would buy one.
webdever 2y ago
As others have said, they do this on purpose. It's the same with memory. I'd probably switch from a Pro to an Air if I could get 64gig ram (for LLM work) but they'd rather charge me $4800 instead of ~$3200 (guessing the price given the top end 32gig Air is $2800) It's frustrating because I'd prefer a lighter device. In fact, even the Air isn't that light compared to its competition. I'd happily pay +$500 ($5300) for Macbook Air PRO if it was effectively the same specs as Macbook Pro but 1.5lbs lighter.
- seanmcdirmid 2y ago
  I'm not sure a Macbook Air with only passive cooling would be the best machine for running an LLM that would fit into ~40GB of GPU accessible memory. > I'd happily pay +$500 ($5300) for Macbook Air PRO if it was effectively the same specs as Macbook Pro but 1.5lbs lighter. You basically want a macbook pro. I don't think it could be that thin with active cooling that such a configuration would require.
- electrograv 2y ago
  I have absolutely no problem paying a premium for an upgraded display. The problem is that Apple does not offer that option for the MacBook Air. The MacBook Pro has an amazing screen, which is why I bought the MBP. But the MBP compromises increased weight (which I don’t want) in exchange for more performance (that I simply don’t need). And we know this compromise is not needed to host a better display, as evidenced by the existence of the iPad Pro. Don’t get me wrong, the MacBook Pro is a fantastic product and I don’t regret buying it. It just feels like a huge missed opportunity on Apple’s part that their only ultra-lightweight laptop is so far behind in display tech vs their other non-laptop products (like the iPad Pro which is lighter still, just crippled due to iOS limitations). I would gladly pay even more than the price of my MacBook Pro for a MacBook Air with a screen on par with the iPad Pro or MacBook Pro. Or even for an iPad Pro that runs OSX!
  - justincormack 2y ago
    With the iPads the Pro models are lighter than the Air. So maybe the laptops will end up like that eventually.
jpalomaki 2y ago
It's actually quite crazy that we need to get those bulky pro models just to get the basics like better screens and more memory. The performance between the Air and Pro is anyways pretty much the same, except for long running tasks where pro benefits from active cooling. Wonder if we are going to see some changes here with the upcoming M5 models.
- jen729w 2y ago
  How else do you propose they differentiate, given that the internals are essentially identical?
  - ProZsolt 2y ago
    I don't think they really need to. You can have the base model with the same specs, but let me configure it with a better display. I can currently spec up a Mac Mini without any problem. The second option is to bring back the MacBook brand for entry level devices and use the Air brand for "Pro" devices that don't require active cooling.
  - nwienert 2y ago
    Just make an Air Pro, make the screen good, charge $500 more and take my money.
adultSwim 2y ago
This is why I haven't bought an ARM Mac. Air screen is up to snuff and Pro is too heavy.

klausa 2y ago

I wish for that machine too; and the price delta between the Macs is why I expect this will never happen. And unfortunately, I'd rather spend the extra bucks than go back to 60hz. Apple seems quite content with making 120hz a feature of "Pro" models across the line (iPads, iPhones, Macs).

torstenvl 2y ago
Portability is a pro feature. The truth of the matter is that Apple does not currently sell a single premium device. Every single one requires serious compromises.

overstay8930 2y ago

I know Apple wants to differentiate ProMotion as a Pro feature, but even non-tech people I know are wondering why Android phones run smoother than iPhones. Stuff that would be completely unheard of purely because of how noticeable 60hz vs 120hz is. Actual reputational damage is going on because of these poor decisions, I’m not surprised iPhones are struggling to obtain new market share. They just look like old and slow phones to most normal people now, “look how nice and smooth it looks” is such an easy selling point compared to trying to pretend people care about whatever Apple Intelligence is.

crazygringo 2y ago
> but even non-tech people I know are wondering why Android phones run smoother than iPhones. Stuff that would be completely unheard of purely because of how noticeable 60hz vs 120hz is. Are they? I'm a tech person and I can barely notice it at all. And I don't think I have a single non-tech friend who is even aware of the concept of video refresh rate. Whenever there's something that doesn't feel smooth about an interface, it's because the app/CPU isn't keeping up. I've honestly never understood why anyone cares about more than 60hZ for screens, for general interfaces/scrolling. (Unless it's about video game response time, but that's not about "running smoother".)
- Jcampuzano2 2y ago
  Yeah I think when they say non-tech people they mean a subset of people who know a bit about refresh rates (example being avid PC gamers for instance), but I'd still say the vast majority of people cannot tell 60 to 120. That or its not something they think about. Certainly if they had both side by side they may be able to notice a difference, but in everyday use it makes no real difference to the vast majority of people. Anecdotally even though I do use Android myself, everyone around me still think iPhones look the smoothest (albeit most of them have never even touched a quality phone running android)
  - Ataraxic 2y ago
    It's one of those things where once you have used it, you will notice it. Given most iOS users aren't swapping between pro and non pro models, it's not something you think about.
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
  - smallmancontrov 2y ago
    They don't know the words but they definitely notice it. "Why is it so smooth/rough?"

ragazzina 2y ago

>I really wish Apple would make a MacBook Air variant with display quality on par with the iPad Pro or MacBook Pro >The screen quality is the only reason I currently use the Pro Well why should they, you already bought the more expensive one.

electrograv 2y ago
I’ve considered trying an ultralight PC laptop with a superior screen. But the sad state of reality is that: (1) Windows these days feels like a constant battle against forcibly installed adware / malware. (2) Linux would be great, but getting basic laptop essentials like reliable sleep/wake and power management to work even remotely well in Linux continues to be a painful losing battle. (3) Apple’s M series chips’ performance and efficiency is still generations ahead of anyone else in the context of portable battery-powered fanless work; nobody else has yet come close to matching apple here, though there is hope Qualcomm will deliver more competition soon (if the silicon’s raw potential is not squandered by Microsoft). Just because Apple’s competition has been complacent and lagging for many years, doesn’t render irrelevant any feedback to Apple regarding what professional laptop users would like.
- olyjohn 2y ago
  You don't buy a PC and try to run MacOS on it do you? Then why do people keep buying random laptops and then complaining when Linux doesn't run on it? You buy a laptop from a vendor who designs them to run Linux out of the box. Also, Apple's power management isn't flawless either. It used to be fantastic, but I've never, ever seen a laptop that has to charge for 15 minutes before you can even boot it from a flat battery. This seems to happen if I leave my laptop powered off for more than a few days. Like, turned completely off, not sleeping with the lid shut.
  - electrograv 2y ago
    > Then why do people keep buying random laptops and then complaining when Linux doesn't run on it? You buy a laptop from a vendor who designs them to run Linux out of the box. Because: (1) Laptop models designed to run Linux out of the box are very scarce, with very few options to choose from. (2) Of the few that do exist, I’ve never seen any even remotely close to being competitive with Apple’s laptops (in terms of hardware quality, and good performance with excellent power efficiency / fanless / thermals / battery life). Part of that is due to Apple’s monopoly on the superiority of their M series chips. But the rest I assume comes from less R&D investment generally in the Linux laptop space due to it being such a small niche, unfortunately.

r0fl 2y ago

Price drop Double the ram And yet a complaining comment makes its way to the top. This blows my mind! People will literally complain no matter what

HatchedLake721 2y ago
Wait until you hear that the new iPad Air doesn't give permission to run a Kubernetes cluster on it. Happens every year
ProZsolt 2y ago
Doesn't matter to me if I still have to buy the chunky Pro to get a decent display. The current Air is great as an entry level device, but there is an underserved segment here.

kokada 2y ago

Hell, I would be happy if Apple at least enabled the virtualization instructions that are already available in the Mx chips inside the iPads, and allowed e.g.: something like UTM in Apple Store with Hypervisor support. It would be a good differentiator between the cheaper iPads running Ax chips vs the more expensive iPads running Mx. Considering the powerful hardware, the form factor and the good keyboard (I have a used Apple Magic Keyboard paired with our iPad Air M2), if I could virtualize an actual Linux distro to get some job done in the iPad it would be great. But no, you are restricted to a cripped version of UTM that can't even run JIT and because of that is really slow because of that.

gloxkiqcza 2y ago
If Apple offered macOS VM as a (paid) app for iPads I would buy one.

webdever 2y ago

As others have said, they do this on purpose. It's the same with memory. I'd probably switch from a Pro to an Air if I could get 64gig ram (for LLM work) but they'd rather charge me $4800 instead of ~$3200 (guessing the price given the top end 32gig Air is $2800) It's frustrating because I'd prefer a lighter device. In fact, even the Air isn't that light compared to its competition. I'd happily pay +$500 ($5300) for Macbook Air PRO if it was effectively the same specs as Macbook Pro but 1.5lbs lighter.

seanmcdirmid 2y ago
I'm not sure a Macbook Air with only passive cooling would be the best machine for running an LLM that would fit into ~40GB of GPU accessible memory. > I'd happily pay +$500 ($5300) for Macbook Air PRO if it was effectively the same specs as Macbook Pro but 1.5lbs lighter. You basically want a macbook pro. I don't think it could be that thin with active cooling that such a configuration would require.
electrograv 2y ago
I have absolutely no problem paying a premium for an upgraded display. The problem is that Apple does not offer that option for the MacBook Air. The MacBook Pro has an amazing screen, which is why I bought the MBP. But the MBP compromises increased weight (which I don’t want) in exchange for more performance (that I simply don’t need). And we know this compromise is not needed to host a better display, as evidenced by the existence of the iPad Pro. Don’t get me wrong, the MacBook Pro is a fantastic product and I don’t regret buying it. It just feels like a huge missed opportunity on Apple’s part that their only ultra-lightweight laptop is so far behind in display tech vs their other non-laptop products (like the iPad Pro which is lighter still, just crippled due to iOS limitations). I would gladly pay even more than the price of my MacBook Pro for a MacBook Air with a screen on par with the iPad Pro or MacBook Pro. Or even for an iPad Pro that runs OSX!
- justincormack 2y ago
  With the iPads the Pro models are lighter than the Air. So maybe the laptops will end up like that eventually.

jpalomaki 2y ago

It's actually quite crazy that we need to get those bulky pro models just to get the basics like better screens and more memory. The performance between the Air and Pro is anyways pretty much the same, except for long running tasks where pro benefits from active cooling. Wonder if we are going to see some changes here with the upcoming M5 models.

jen729w 2y ago
How else do you propose they differentiate, given that the internals are essentially identical?
- ProZsolt 2y ago
  I don't think they really need to. You can have the base model with the same specs, but let me configure it with a better display. I can currently spec up a Mac Mini without any problem. The second option is to bring back the MacBook brand for entry level devices and use the Air brand for "Pro" devices that don't require active cooling.
- nwienert 2y ago
  Just make an Air Pro, make the screen good, charge $500 more and take my money.

adultSwim 2y ago

This is why I haven't bought an ARM Mac. Air screen is up to snuff and Pro is too heavy.