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Y Combinator deletes posts after a startup's demo goes viral
- ncr100 2y agoThis kind of naive focus on technology is dehumanizing. What are Universities doing to curb this?
- hulitu 2y agoNothing ? /s
- alienthrowaway 2y agoIt sounds like you want universities to instill a sense of respect for other people with a different socioeconomic background. The current administration would consider that to be "woke" or "DEI", and fine Duke the equivalent of it's endowment based on a tenuous link to the anti-affirmative-action SCOTUS ruling.
- booleanbetrayal 2y agoMy win-win-ism: "Helping employees meet their full potential!"
- LarsAlereon 2y agoWhat even is the the point of VC vetting if companies like this make it through?
- bediger4000 2y agoMaking even more money?
- walrus01 2y ago'chart goes up and to the right' seems to excuse a great many lapses in morality in the modern era.
- ori_b 2y agoWhat do you think VCs are vetting for? (Hint, it's potential for profit, not ethics.)
- prododev 2y agoWhat do you think the purpose of VC vetting is? It's right there in the name: Capital. You know the thing they optimize for is capital, right?
- 7e 2y agoYC doesn’t vet. It’s a sweatshop for startups. They need volume. For this reason, YC cohorts have always been full of wankers. Er, “wantrepreneurs”.
- brendoelfrendo 2y agoHa! The sweatshop for startups has finally produced a startup that wants to help sweatshops grind their workers into dust. The circle is finally complete!
- disqard 2y agoMore of a "fractal", if you ask me, but there's definitely a similar pattern here: Wanting to maximize profits by squeezing work out of less-fortunate people, efficiently, and at scale.
- ChrisArchitect 2y agoSome discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43170850 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43170850
- neilv 2y agoAlso discussion from today: 'Hey Number 17 ' (404media.co) 314 points by Amorymeltzer 10 hours ago | 122 comments | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43175023 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43175023
- windex 2y agoAI enforced slavery. I remember reading a short story where workers get instructions from an AI constantly after starting out as work assistance. Don't remember the details.
- pbh101 2y ago“Manna” by Marshall Brain of howstuffworks.com ? https://marshallbrain.com/manna1 https://marshallbrain.com/manna1
- empathy_m 2y agoAn interesting read, thanks for this.
- mock-possum 2y agoWhoa this is excellent!
- _DeadFred_ 2y agoFrom back when we thought silicon valley were the good guys working to prevent a dystopian future and deliver a better one.
- xp84 2y agoRIP Marshall Brain. He was a great man. And quite befitting the peculiar name. It really makes me think. Honestly the Manna system has only just since the LLM discovery been possible, whereas it seemed a bit farfetched to me 15 years ago when I first read it. It would be pretty easy to roll today’s “AI” into a product to replace fast food managers like in that story.
- readthenotes1 2y agoIt's not slavery. There's enough of that around without making stuff up
- prododev 2y agoThere's a very common and often discussed concept called wage slavery. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wage_slavery https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wage_slavery Which is different from chattel slavery, of course. But it's still an extant theory that gets discussed widely. It would seem an AI company to be a labor panopticon would align with the critiques raised by the concept of wage slavery.
- duxup 2y agoNothing about YC seems to imply they care about worker conditions… Not saying I support this product, the demo is some horrific soulless behavior, but I’m not surprised either.
- georgemcbay 2y ago2025 tech industry try not to be the bad guys in a dystopian Sci-Fi story Challenge: Impossible
- pigeons 2y agoPlease fund my torment nexus.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- phonon 2y agoEven "Taylorism" wasn't this bad...it at least tried to analyze conditions that were constraining worker productivity. This just measures output and manages by pressure and belittlement.
- lmm 2y ago> This just measures output Not even that. Measuring output makes a certain amount of sense. This just measures "looking busy". It's practically an admission that they don't care about actual production, they just enjoy hassling people.
- nimish 2y agoBizarre that they would do this instead of trying to alleviate the toil of production instead. I just don't get it.
- duxup 2y agoImproving processes is hard. Wagging your finger at that “bad” employee who is “slacking” that’s a very desirable and I think almost primal motivation for some folks….
- timewizard 2y agoWhen market conditions give you a glut of "qualified" labor you can afford these practices. Then again these are precisely the types of "poverty studies" that have been done in India for years. "Should we fine nurses who are late to work? If so, how much?" "Should web publicly shame and harass office workers who leave early? If so, how much?" Lookin' at you, "Poverty Action Lab." This looks like the logical extension to what we've been putting this country through for years.
- _DeadFred_ 2y agoActual manufacturing engineers are expensive and tell you things that you don't want to hear/require work and long term thinking on management's part. Yelling at/blaming employees is instant gratification.
- zombiwoof 2y ago[flagged]
- dang 2y agoWhoa—of all things to add to this story, racial slurs must surely be near the bottom of the list. No more of this please.
- theobeers 2y agoWatching that video made me wonder whether I should even feel comfortable visiting HN.
- kordlessagain 2y agoWondering is just a visceral reaction to the possible harms that come with all technologies. As with most gut feelings, it’ll soon be forgotten once that cool new shiny doohickey is announced, with a price point of $599.
- g-b-r 2y agoCome on it's not about all new technologies, there are extremely reasonable concerns with this specific technology (or at least its application).
- duxup 2y agoI don’t think HN really generates anything for them.
- toomuchtodo 2y agoIt’s to pull eyeballs for jobs at YC portfolio companies and to attempt to convince founders to apply to batches. It is their marketing and talent sourcing. It is, arguably, the most valuable contributor of forward looking potential returns (considering most VC investment decisions are statistics and gambling).
- duxup 2y agoI'm always skeptical about "eyeballs" type arguments. If we were talking about millions of people for an advert sure, but most folks here aren't YC participants / won't be and heck most talk about joining a startup as an IC on here is NOT POSITIVE ;)
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- mirawelner 2y agoIf you are going to be funding boss spyware at least have the guts to face the backlash
- rdtsc 2y agoBullies always act tough but they are often weak and insecure.
- prododev 2y agoAnyone who would fund or build this is, in my mind, taxonomically evil. Maybe not irretrievably so, but YC would need to do a lot of work in my mind to not be "that form that believes the panopticon and dehumanization is good." This isn't just run of the mill capitalism bad, this is truly exceptionally vile and staining.
- strken 2y agoProbably depends what the pitch was. "Monitor assembly lines using AI so you can tell when a machine breaks" is radically different from "constantly snitch on all your factory workers".
- XorNot 2y agoI wonder where monitor assembly lines to ensure people are following work instructions sits?
- _DeadFred_ 2y agoEnsuring order of operation was a big deal at the company I worked, but this isn't going to be able to track that.
- g-b-r 2y agoOr protect your workers, keep them safe....
- GuinansEyebrows 2y ago> This isn't just run of the mill capitalism bad, this is truly exceptionally vile and staining. My friend, they’re one and the same.
- Frederation 2y ago[flagged]
- Frederation 2y ago[flagged]
- walrus01 2y agothe lashings will continue until morale improves
- mzajc 2y ago"At long last, we have created the Torment Nexus from the classic sci-fi novel Don't Create The Torment Nexus"
- odo1242 2y agoNot gonna lie the tone of that product pitch sounded straight out of a certain mobile game ad. What do you mean you’ve been working all day? I've got over 500 million power in “Rise of Kingdoms” and
- xyzal 2y agoWe need an alternative platform
- mirawelner 2y agoI like lobste.rs. It gets heat from being invite only and therefore somewhat snooty but I’m a big fan
- raxxorraxor 2y agoA bit too posh even if they now ban UK users.
- snowe2010 2y agoprogramming.dev is a federated platform
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- krapp 2y agoMastodon
- laidoffamazon 2y agoAside from the mildly disturbing tone of the video, I thought it was amusing/interesting that both of them were born into families that owned factories and got into Duke. What a world of people that get into YC.
- _Algernon_ 2y agoThe Luddites were right. We need to learn from them to stop these kinds of practices in the cradle.
- dandanua 2y agoToo late
- tgsovlerkhgsel 2y agoI'm very glad to live in a country where something like this would be considered blatantly illegal.
- meitham 2y agoIn the UK and most of the west this is unethical but there is no explicit law that makes it illegal, curious what country you are from that deems this illegal?
- tgsovlerkhgsel 2y agoI think any country with GDPR, although some are more known to enforce it aggressively than others. France fining Amazon for similar surveillance based on scanner data: https://www.edpb.europa.eu/news/national-news/2024/employee-monitoring-french-sa-fined-amazon-france-logistique-eu32-million_en https://www.edpb.europa.eu/news/national-news/2024/employee-... Germany issung a 10 million fine to a small (<1000 employees) company: https://www.dataprotectionreport.com/2021/01/new-german-fine-eur-10-4-million-for-unlawful-cctv/ https://www.dataprotectionreport.com/2021/01/new-german-fine... That was "just" CCTV, not an AI panopticon. I think the law (and nearly-guaranteed consequences) are so clear in Germany that few larger companies would be stupid enough to seriously consider something like this, and if they did, any serious Betriebsrat (works council) would put a quick end to it even before the privacy authority could bring the hammer down. Switzerland has laws against behavioral surveillance too, although I'm not sure how the enforcement mechanisms look in practice. But I expect something like this to be too blatant for employers to get away with it. (https://www.edoeb.admin.ch/en/video-surveillance-in-the-workplace https://www.edoeb.admin.ch/en/video-surveillance-in-the-work..., "The use of video surveillance systems for the targeted monitoring of employee behaviour is prohibited".) These rules are explicitly considered health & safety rules due to the psychological harm (stress etc.) that this kind of surveillance causes.
- overstay8930 2y agoWhere is something like this illegal?
- kazinator 2y agoWhy not call it Panoptify. (In reference to https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panopticon https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panopticon )
- poulpy123 2y agoThat's absolutely insane
- dang 2y agoRecent and related: 'Hey Number 17 ' - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43175023 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43175023 - Feb 2025 (122 comments) Tell HN: Y Combinator backing AI company to abuse factory workers - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43170850 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43170850 - Feb 2025 (160 comments)
- wewewedxfgdf 2y agoThat dang is here dispels the conspiracy that this is being hidden by YC. I'd be interested to know what he original pitch to YC was by this company. YC companies often pivot - it may be that their initial pitch was not this at all.
- LAC-Tech 2y ago[flagged]
- wewewedxfgdf 2y agoHe's not on the front line anymore is he?
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- tonyhart7 2y agothis is just surveillance with python machine learning noo?? seems like bad business since the endgame was full automation robot factory
- lwansbrough 2y agoDid someone at YC watch this and think "wow, I'm in!"? lol.
- mikhael 2y agoso, we don't yet have AI good enough to do real work, but we do have AI good enough to punish people for not doing work.
- blindriver 2y agoThese guys spent a lot of effort making a really great implementation of sweatshop software. These two privileged kids really thought it was a great idea and honestly didn't think there was anything wrong about this at all. Objectively they did a great job from a technological perspective. The fact it didn't cross their minds that maybe this is a bad idea to release in the US really shows the cultural difference between the West and other countries like India. There are plenty of things wrong with the US but blatant treating of lesser-privileged people like animals is something that isn't well tolerated here.
- duxup 2y ago> Objectively they did a great job from a technological perspective. It’s not clear to me that their software, actually does what it says… I feel like that wasn’t entirely clear from the demo. It’s not like a short demo proves much.
- unclebucknasty 2y ago>The fact it didn't cross their minds that maybe this is a bad idea to release in the US really shows the cultural difference They're YC-backed. Was there no one to advise them on the "cultural difference"?
- hulitu 2y ago> They're YC-backed. Was there no one to advise them on the "cultural difference"? When they talk about money, the "cultural difference" doesn't matter. /s
- darth_avocado 2y agoThat has been the criticism of YC of late. The “advise” part has been lacking.
- ojbyrne 2y agoI would hazard a guess that plenty of US companies (start with Amazon warehouses, move on to truck drivers) do very similar things, if not exactly the same.
- WD-42 2y agoI really hope that this was just a crappy mockup that the founders didn't spend any actual time on. Because if it is a fully fledged product, I'm not sure what that says about the many people at YC and elsewhere that gave it a pass. Seriously wtf material.
- tptacek 2y agoI wouldn't be surprised if the startup asked YC to pull the Launch after the backlash, and I would be surprised if HN was resistant to doing that. Unlike most of what runs on HN, Launch HNs (and YC company job posts) are purely a benefit for YC companies. I wouldn't bring this particular product to market. But I think people have weird ideas about the level of intentionality that exists inside of YC with respect to its portfolio companies. Relative to an ordinary VC fund, YC admits absurd numbers of companies every year (always has!). It deliberately admits companies that are nothing but pairs of impressive founders and an idea. Those teams get some office hours advice from some subset of YC partners, but are left alone to build their companies --- YC takes a small amount of equity, nothing resembling control. By the time Demo Day or "Launch HN" happens, many of those companies are working on totally different things from their applications. I don't really understand why anyone would expect YC to keep a durable record of a Launch post that was working against the startup that put it together. They're not a journalism outlet, and it looks like journalism did just fine keeping a record of what happened here.
- lmm 2y ago> I don't really understand why anyone would expect YC to keep a durable record of a Launch post that was working against the startup that put it together. They're not a journalism outlet Is it really surprising that people might expect "Hacker News" to follow the basic standards of respectable news outlets?
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- xyst 2y agoA startup looking to act as the equivalent of overseers on a plantation in 19th century is very representative of the American neoliberal shithole we live in.
- NoRagrets 2y agoIt’s not a cultural thing. It happens here too. Someone created something like this to track strawberry pickers and their ‘productivity’. Remember they are not even paid minimum wage by the hour. They are paid by how many punnets they pick. And this founder thought it was a great idea. American Ag is more exploitative than any third world/developing country because the really desperate work here. It is sorely in need of automation. Nobody wants to actually invest in Ag automation..not really…there is a lot of BS floating but everything grown locally and on our shelves relies on low paid manual labour. I wish.. so very much..that Americans see how their food is grown.
- _DeadFred_ 2y agoI grew up in Santa Cruz county. I went to school with field workers' kids. I don't know about the ones that were migrants as we didn't keep in touch, but the ones I went to school with year after year almost all went military then college. None went on to be field workers. American ag might suck, but like you said it at least comes with something more, some future hope, if only for your kids.
- insane_dreamer 2y agoWill likely be bought by Amazon. Looks like a good fit for their warehouse work "culture".
- Gud 2y agoHoly shit, this is pure evil. ”Optifye says it’s building software to help factory owners know who’s working — and who isn’t — in “real-time” thanks to AI-powered security cameras it places on assembly lines, according to its YC profile.”
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- megaloblasto 2y agoA truly disgusting display by everyone involved. Only a sad, sorry person would ever consider using technology like this.
- sitkack 2y agoThis is why it is no longer safe to make the most dangerous satire. Life imitates art, https://theyesmen.org/project/finland https://theyesmen.org/project/finland
- wendyshu 2y agoI'm confused, what's so bad about measuring worker productivity?
- xp84 2y agoIt is interesting to me that people seem to believe that were it not for this software, no one would ever complain at workers who are, or who are though to be, slacking. As though that concept was invented by the software. In reality this sounds to me like a play to eliminate the manager jobs, not to materially change working conditions for the rank and file, who are monitored for output one way or another, even in Western countries. Nobody employs workers unconditionally and for life.