11 ms·
DOGE staffer is trying to reroute FEMA funds
- jkestner 2y ago> DOGE claims to be auditing FEMA. But sources within FEMA report that the DOGE employees are primarily “computer science guys” and do not understand the basics of financial management. In one instance, a coder brought in by DOGE confronted a FEMA staffer about mismanagement of funds. The FEMA staffer clarified that no funds were allocated during the time period in question and that the DOGE representative simply misunderstood the data.
- justin66 2y agoThey were first-principlesing it
- simonsarris 2y agoThat sounds thoroughly unremarkable by itself. A staffer asked for an explanation of something he was seeing and got one (he was incorrect about the data). This interaction repeats a zillion times per day for any consultancy project.
- Timon3 2y agoIs there any documented process in place to ensure that the staffer has to take the explanation into account? Government workers have been relentlessly antagonized by Trump and his party. How can we be sure these situations are handled correctly and fairly, especially when the people doing the "auditing" don't know what they are doing due to missing qualifications?
- simonsarris 2y ago[flagged]
- Timon3 2y agoNo, that's not what I asked for. Unless you're deliberately misreading my question, that should be obvious to you. Please try and act in good faith.
- relaxing 2y agoConsultants don’t get absolute power to make changes unilaterally.
- AlecSchueler 2y agoAnd usually people given power in these institutions have to go through background checks.
- megamike 2y agohere is doge https://www.doge.gov/ https://www.doge.gov/
- lenerdenator 2y agoI've seen rumors that the server isn't on US soil. Any confirmation of that?
- Sebguer 2y agoIt's fronted by Cloudflare, so not sure how someone would assess that, or why it wouldn't be on US soil (or why that would matter).
- lenerdenator 2y agoBecause generally speaking, it's not a good idea to have machines with possible links to sensitive government data not under the jurisdiction of the government that owns that data.
- Sebguer 2y agohttps://xkcd.com/932/ https://xkcd.com/932/ (Don't get me wrong, I think the existence of DOGE is a farce, but this website is literally just a blog... It's not hosting secrets, and getting caught up in conspiracy theories of it being 'hosted offshore' is missing the forest for the trees) Edit: After reading https://www.404media.co/anyone-can-push-updates-to-the-doge-gov-website-2/ https://www.404media.co/anyone-can-push-updates-to-the-doge-... (which lol, what competence!) it sounds like the 'not on american soil' is bowdlerized from the fact that they're running on Cloudflare pages so there isn't a 'server'.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- thereddaikon 2y agoIt's just a front end for tweets from that account. Clicking on any of the posts takes you to the original.
- Kye 2y agoThis confirms all my biases and comes from a source I don't recognize. That trips my anti-confirmation bias heuristics. Can someone do a journalism on this and get 1-2 other independent sources?
- xphilter 2y agoNot to be flippant, but why can’t you do that?
- Mashimo 2y agoA journalist might have contacts in FEMA. Who should Joe Doe contact?
- Kye 2y agobingo I feel like journalism, as an occupation, has had a hard time communicating why it exists over the last 20 years or so while trying to keep up with all the changes. edit: A free primer on standards, re: confirmation. One source can, with caution, be the basis of an article, as long as it's presented as unconfirmed. This can induce other sources to reach out to their media contacts, so it's useful. Two sources is considered confirmed as long as they're independent. Journalists have gotten in trouble with double confirmation when it came out one cited the other. Three independent sources is considered golden. There's variation here if the source is the source, with actual authority on the subject, but other sources can add context they might not be willing or able to talk about.
- Kye 2y agoWell, because I'm not a journalist. I don't have the resources or connections to go and find this out. That's why we have professional journalists.
- SketchySeaBeast 2y agoWait, so you're not just asking for other articles around this, you're asking for a journalist to see your hacker news comment and provide you sources?
- martin_a 2y agoAs a European this is just so terrifying and fascinating to watch at the same time. I really wonder (and hope for the best) what comes out of all this. With Trump and Musk and this agency that isn't one and all the presidential orders. Will we look at this some time later and think "well, that was really stupid, do not try again" or will the world burn down over this? Crazy times.
- lenerdenator 2y agoWe'll look back on it as we do all of the other times people got away with things they shouldn't have gotten away with while holding the power of the state. I'll also add that there are absolutely people in Europe who aspire to see this kind of thing happen there, and that in some cases, it already has. See: Orban, Brexit, Le Pen, AfD, etc... and that of course doesn't touch on what happens in less-Western European countries.
- martin_a 2y ago> there are absolutely people in Europe who aspire to see this kind of thing happen there Yeah, that's exactly what I fear. Seeing this is a working example or a role model on how to do it here, too. And yes, you pointed out the most obvious of the bad guys.
- diggan 2y agoIn reality, it's the opposite. What we're seeing day-by-day in the US today matches almost exactly how the rise of Fascism was done in Europe, and how they grabbed as much power as they could, both before the second-world war, and in more modern times.
- mytailorisrich 2y ago[flagged]
- martin_a 2y ago> What seems unique at this stage, [...] is the speed and brutality I think this is especially concerning. From all the reports this whole "process" looks like "shoot first, ask questions later" and I think that's not how democracies should work in regards to anything. While the goals might be very favorable and welcome, the process and way to get there has to live up to high standards, too. edit: And I think you can have speed and a momentum in doing things without going in like in a Counterstrike match.
- SketchySeaBeast 2y agoWe're watching the ultimate destructive expression of the comp sci "oh, we can just automate that" hubris.
- mattgreenrocks 2y agoAnd we will be caught in the resulting cultural collateral damage.
- no_wizard 2y agoNot to mention financial. Its all but inevitable this will have expensive financial fallout, likely for individuals and the government.
- SketchySeaBeast 2y agoI am absolutely gobsmacked that the markets simply don't care about any of this.
- ceejayoz 2y agoThey muscled through COVID, they're gonna try and muscle through this. It's in essentially every person with power's benefit for the number to go up, so everyone ensures the number goes up. See also: Bitcoin pricing.
- relaxing 2y agoThose muscles got their energy from government stimulus.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- mattgreenrocks 2y agoTheir MO is to play as many angles as they can simultaneously.
- tyleo 2y agoIs there anything we can do? I don’t mean to ask that and imply that there is nothing. I mean it as an honest question. Is there a process or organization to snap into right now to help?
- croes 2y agoCongress, lol
- jjulius 2y agoThat. Or pitchforks. Or holes outside of towns[1]. [1]https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42318504 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42318504
- croes 2y agoFrom 2020 but still fitting https://theshovel.com.au/2020/06/04/nra-accidentally-forgets-to-rise-up-against-tyrannical-government/ https://theshovel.com.au/2020/06/04/nra-accidentally-forgets...
- duxup 2y agoVote when the time comes, and hoping the judiciary behaves independently. However, considering SCOTUS has largely decided POTUS is largely immune from most anything, I don't see why he can't just ignore the courts when the time comes...
- jjulius 2y agoWhat does that say for the rest of us? If the leader of the free world has decided laws don't matter, then as far as I'm concerned that applies to the rest of us, rendering it "legal" to remove him via whatever means we as polite society choose fit. At least, my hope is that they don't push the limits with ignoring laws because they're afraid that would happen...
- 2y ago
- duxup 2y ago>DOGE currently has FEMA employees tasked with combing through grants for DEI-related keywords for all grants dating back to 2021. DOGE’s list of “problematic" keywords include: Disadvantaged, Marginalized, Underserved, Environmental Justice, Climate, Equity, Equitable, Inclusion, Diversity, and Culture. It's sad how the "big tech" fear involves installing an administration that emulates the arbitrary nature of big tech, in spades.
- mjburgess 2y agoThe security and intelligence apparatus made bet big that they could prevent a second trump election, after quite successfully destabilising the first -- they failed. And now the very system of unaccountable executive power which has been built up, is now being used against the executive itself. This makes me increasingly concerned for a similar turn of events in the UK (ie., given the many actions of the UK state to enable state propaganda, censorship of the UK internet, and tracking of all citizens -- how these will be used if a far-right party comes into power.
- JumpCrisscross 2y ago> the very system of unaccountable executive power which has been built up, is now being used against the executive itself Musk is a fever dream incorporated by its own paranoia. There was never a deep state as potent and destructive (to say nothing of incompetent) as DOGE. The problem with its illegality is twofold. On one hand, this will be a multibillion-dollar process to undo. If it persists, it means the next D President can just order the Treasury to e.g. shred student loan records and wire money to whomever they want and ignore anything the Congress or courts do. (If there is no next D President, we shift to an imperial playbook and it will be good living for anyone already rich and really bad for anyone who isn’t.)
- thereddaikon 2y agoThe difference in the UK is, there is no recourse. It's actually why America exists as a state to begin with. They have parliamentary supremacy and no enshrined checks and balances against parliament. Nor do they have a formal constitution. And the populace is disarmed. A sufficiently united parliament can in theory do what it wants. The only practical risk they have is a coordinated coup by the military. The US system, while far from perfect, does have enshrined checks and balances. A formal constitution that limits the powers of branches. And an armed populace with a history of protest and unrest when things don't go their way.
- artistic_regard 2y ago[dead]
- PaulRobinson 2y agoI say this as a UKian with a constitutional monarch as head of state: These actions suggest that today the United States seems to have a de facto King with far greater powers than even those held by George III at the time the founders decided that America did not need a King. They might not be called that, but they have the ability to exert behaviours akin to an English monarch not seen much since Henry VIII. Arguably, we're heading into Magna Carta territory. The checks and balances are about to get a big test. I hope they work, and I'm proven wrong.
- SketchySeaBeast 2y agoWe're watching the checks and balances fail in real time. By the time the first court order comes through the DOGE boys are already doing something else somewhere else. The legal system can't create injunctions as fast as Trump can sign things. It's proving impossible for a legitimate system to keep up with the wanton pillaging.
- insane_dreamer 2y agoAlso courts can't act until someone sues for "harm" which they themselves suffered. That takes a long time, and by then, the damage is very difficult, or maybe impossible, to undo.
- SketchySeaBeast 2y agoYup. Hopefully they have good backups, but once money has been shuffled around is it possible to put it back? And not just in the abstract - this is FEMA we're talking about - lives are going to be lost.
- yoyonamite 2y agoI think it might actually be worse. I don't think the judiciary can enforce any of their court orders.
- atomicnumber3 2y agoThe checks and balances assumed the entire country didn't vote the exact same people into majorities in all 3 branches
- diggan 2y ago> DOGE is also working with a FEMA IT Specialist and a grant director, according to Drop Site’s reporting. “Everyone is complying. Everyone is afraid to lose their jobs,” sources within FEMA told Drop Site. They describe the situation as FEMA employees following a “chain of command and that leads to DOGE even though they’re not part of it.” This is how a democracy slowly falls into fascism. Not because it's a overnight coup d'état, but because people freely give power away instead of resisting, and just agree to actions they never would otherwise.
- duxup 2y agoI think there's value of having good people there when the trump administration is gone. Having those people quit is effectively part of the current administration's plans.
- diggan 2y ago> I think there's value of having good people there when the trump administration is gone. I'm not sure about the assumption that there is "when Y is gone", it isn't fully clear. One of the campaign promises from the group that won was that people won't have to vote in the future. Not sure if that's actually feasible or not, but that it was brought up should at least be considered. But yeah, I hear and agree somewhat with your point otherwise, there might be value in people resisting in small ways (delays, confusion and so on, basically the CIA playbook for corporate sabotage) rather than in big ways of just saying "No" until you get fired.
- janice1999 2y agoIt's difficult to resist when it means likely losing your job and not being about to afford rent or your mortgage.
- diggan 2y agoYou're right, it is really difficult and can come with severe consequences. These situations are when our values are truly put to the test. These moments test us, but they also define us.
- sambull 2y agoBig tech comes to destroy America.
- simianparrot 2y ago[flagged]
- duxup 2y ago>This isn’t what HN is about. Yes it is. There's no rule against this topic. The whole "you people can't talk about this" approach is absurd. Don't participate if you don't want to, but don't limit others.
- croes 2y agoThere aren't enough areas where it is discussed.
- JKCalhoun 2y agoI would love for this to not be what HN is about. But unfortunately we are finding ourselves living in interesting times.
- no_wizard 2y agoReminds of this Baldur's Gate quote: "I should not have wished to live in more interesting times" Feels fitting.
- insane_dreamer 2y agoThese are major events that not only affect the lives of Americans but the world, due to US' status. Don't take it upon yourself to decide what we should or should not read and discuss. Besides since DOGE -- made up of techies -- are the ones "purging" the government (instead of say, you know, investigative accountants who can actually properly investigate allegations of corruption/fraud/waste), then it just become a highly-relevant tech topic. If Musk wasn't in charge, and DOGE wasn't been run by SWEs, then we wouldn't be having these conversations, would we?
- lupusreal 2y ago[flagged]
- Vaslo 2y ago[flagged]
- ceejayoz 2y agoWithholding funds? What are you on about? https://www.fema.gov/press-release/20250207/north-carolina-153000-families-receiving-fema-help https://www.fema.gov/press-release/20250207/north-carolina-1... https://www.fema.gov/press-release/20250122/helene-survivors-receive-more-45-million-federal-assistance-critical https://www.fema.gov/press-release/20250122/helene-survivors...
- SketchySeaBeast 2y agoI'd love a source that isn't a tweet.
- Vaslo 2y ago[flagged]
- jajko 2y agoIf they would rather lean into bureaucratic evils like TSA with similar ferociousness (and saving hundreds of millions or even billions easily), they would get some points to burn on unpopular fascist moves. But no lets target the weakest in society, for sure easy targets with little to defend themselves.
- echoechoecho76 2y ago[flagged]
- croes 2y agoDidn't see any proven corruption, just claims. Didn't see them targeting military funding, where we all now corruption is a big player.
- Jerrrry 2y ago[dead]
- sympil 2y agoYou think this is normal and within the established political norms? It’s so far outside what is considered normal that people are no longer talking about the $30 billion Trump made off his crypto coin. Trump has been found by a jury to have committed sexual assault, fraudulently running a charity, etc. What’a amazing is that otherwise decent people follow such a debased, pathetic human being.
- insane_dreamer 2y agowhich corruption is being routed out? I'm sure there's some corruption somewhere, but so far we haven't seen any concrete examples of it -- just elimination of anything related to DEI (which has to do with ideology, not "corruption" which would be embezzlement of funds). Also, there are mechanisms for properly investigating and bringing to justice government officials who do embezzle funds (corruption). As far as anything being "routed out", so far that's been agencies that have nothing to do with corruption: USAID, Dept of Education, all the DOJ lawyers who had anything to do with investigations into Trump, Jan 6, etc. A lot of political reprisals under the cover of "corruption". I suggest you study what happened in China from 2012 - 2018 and you can see where this is headed.
- ketlag 2y agoWhy does everything D0G3 get flagged?
- croes 2y agoTech Bros stick together?
- duxup 2y agoYeah it's a pattern for sure. Lotta folks seem to not want other people to talk about this kind of thing. Same goes for most other Trump administration articles. I get not wanting to read it, but that's not what flagging is for IMO...
- ryandrake 2y agoVisit /active: https://news.ycombinator.com/active https://news.ycombinator.com/active You'll see every single article criticizing DOGE has been flagged by users, in order to try to bury it.
- ketlag 2y agoIm surprised my comment is still up!
- AlecSchueler 2y agoI guess the HN crowd are too able to understand what's happening. There's too much specific criticism here. Who is blocking these discussions? Where else can we go? Every day the discussions here are blocked. YCombinator has taken a side and it is a worrying one.
- dragonwriter 2y agoThere are a very large number of discussion venues online that do not tend to penalize controversial political issues. Many of them have strong political biases (but, then again, so does HN.)
- throwpoi 2y ago[flagged]
- ramshanker 2y ago[flagged]
- ceejayoz 2y ago> Trump declared certain policies in his election campaign. Trump declared directly contradictory policies, depending on who he was talking to, and publicly disavowed the Project 2025 stuff that was widely unpopular. (Then, hired its planners and implemented their policies.) Trump received a plurality of the vote, not a majority.
- SketchySeaBeast 2y agoYou keep using majority as emphasis, but that's incorrect. Trump only got 49.8% of the vote. The majority of America voters did not vote for him.
- adleyjulian 2y ago> He is fulfilling his declared policy objective ...his actions are basically US (majority) people's collective action. Process matters and laws matter. The federal budget is set by congress. If the executive branch is allowed to unilaterally withhold or redirect money then what is the point of congressional budgetary authority? If they had won a super majority then they would have also been able to pass whatever laws/budgets/etc. through congress (assuming they're constitutional). People are not just objecting to what they're doing, but how they're doing it.
- insane_dreamer 2y agoAnd ... there we go - flagged by Musk's tech bros again. HN is starting to feel like X -- I've deleted my X account, and might have to do the same here. I've now switched my primary HN link from the home page to /active, where, thankfully, flagged posts still show up.
- AlecSchueler 2y agoThans for that idea about /active. I've been so confused and disturbed these past two weeks to see HN apparently ignore what's happening.
- cbovis 2y ago> I've now switched my primary HN link from the home page to /active, where, thankfully, flagged posts still show up. Great tip, thanks!
- ryandrake 2y agoYea, the difference between home and /active has never been starker. I feel like HN's well-intentioned user-flagging system assumed good faith, and was not built to handle the obvious partisan brigading that we've been seeing.
- AlecSchueler 2y ago> system assumed good faith Ironically also the reason that many checks and balances in the US government seem to be failing.
- JumpCrisscross 2y agoI’ve generally been praiseful of HN’s moderation. But given the leadership of YC’s political views, it’s disappointing to see politics called on MAGA criticism but not on similar critiques of San Francisco and New York politics.
- mho_siemens 2y ago
- sundaeofshock 2y agoOh look this has already been flagged. I think it’s important to recognize that HN is most likely supportive of the Trump/Musk regime. Remember that Gary Tan wanted to run the same playbook in the city of San Francisco. Please keep this in mind when posting here. Finally, depending on where we end up, I wonder how history will remember HN.
- unyttigfjelltol 2y ago[flagged]
- intended 2y agoThis shoud 100% not be flagged. IF people are asking for reasonable analyses, this is it. As for HN, I've seen time based voting patterns that affect the upvote score. Still shouldn't be flagged. No matter how tired people are of politics, this is still critical.