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I still don't understand where Jetbrains is going with Fleet. Is it a platform to prototype ideas for their IDEs? Is their long-term goal to replace their IDEs

I still don't understand where Jetbrains is going with Fleet. Is it a platform to prototype ideas for their IDEs? Is their long-term goal to replace their IDEs with Fleet? Is it just a standalone product? So far, it seems like they're very slowly recreating their IDEs from scratch in Fleet while continuing development on the IntelliJ Platform and related IDEs, doing twice as much work for nothing.

gf000 2y ago
I believe they are heavily reusing the non-UI part of Intellij and the like, so it's not really 2x the development.
- vips7L 2y ago
  Yeah I think they're just trying to get out of Swing by developing a new ui, Swing isn't that fun to develop.
  - tadfisher 2y ago
    Unfortunately they started building Fleet before Compose Multiplatform was ready, so now they support three UI technologies. Granted, Fleet uses the same rendering base as Compose (Skiko), but that's got to be a dead end ultimately.
- ashu1461 2y ago
  Usually Intellij products are slow and fleet does not seem to be slow, so it is feels likely a lot of code was rewritten to make it fast.
  - sfn42 2y ago
    I don't think they're slow at all. Takes a while to index when opening a new project, then everything is snappy. My main reason for using JB is I loathe the shitty build your own ide experience of VSC. Everything is more difficult, whereas in JB everything just works.
  - nerdix 2y ago
    Fleet has a "smart mode" that can load an intellij backend for IDE like features. But that only happens if you enable it. Thats why it can do Kotlin even though Kotlin doesn't have an official LSP.
solardev 2y ago
I think Fleet's their hopeful answer to VSCode. IntelliJ is powerful, but so, so messy, with a convoluted UI from the 90s/2000s. Even the simplified one is much klunklier than VSCode, especially for everyday/every-hour tasks like NPM scripts, debugging, etc. Every essential function is hidden in tiny competing side panels triggered by some obscure icon in a different part of the screen. I love and use Jetbrains IDEs every day, but after a decade I still only find their UIs merely tolerable. Many of my colleagues try them out for an hour or two and then jump ship back to VSCode just because the initial "wtf is going on" factor is so high =/ I'm guessing Fleet was their answer, an opportunity to develop a greenfield UI for a new generation of devs raised with UX (vs the old guard of IntelliJ users from past decades). It made sense, until AI suddenly took over everything and nobody cared what your IDE UI is like anymore.
- nprateem 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - MattPalmer1086 2y ago
    I see no flamebait. Your own post is much more flamebaity.
- homebrewer 2y ago
  You forgot to add "IMHO". IDEA has fantastic UI, it's fully configurable and 100% usable through pre-assigned hotkeys. For example, fuzzy search is available everywhere, in every tool window, in the database window, in search results, etc. The same key combination (ctrl+alt+arrow up/down on my instance) can be used to jump between search results, symbol usages, TODOs, linter results, and so on. They thought through and implemented countless convenient features, most of which I will not be able to remember, but do use every day purely through muscle memory. They're also now intent on destroying them in favor of the "new" primitive UI by trying to cater to new users (who are seemingly fine with never becoming power users). The good UI is still available through a plugin, but it's obvious it will be dropped in the next few years. I'm pretty sure they will lose the old guard like me right after that.
konradkissener 2y ago
I don’t understand it either. I don’t think it appeals to many VS Code users, and to IntelliJ users probably even less so. KMP support was the only reason I was still curious about Fleet. I presume this announcement is the beginning of the end for Fleet.
- sureIy 2y ago
  It definitely appeals VSC users like VSC appealed to Sublime Text. There was really no reason for ST users to switch to VSC other than better tool integration. Winning people over from VSC means having a free and fast editor with great features and lots of useful plugins. Still a long way to go.
vunderba 2y ago
Personally I had always hoped that Fleet was intended to be sort of a lightweight editor in the same arena as notepad++ or sublime.
whoisthemachine 2y ago
In my opinion it seems like an experimental competitor to VS Code while also giving them a way to dog food new Java-based UI frameworks (KMP, Compose).
- NoahKAndrews 2y ago
  Except it doesn't use Compose, it uses its own new thing that sounds kind of similar, but predates Compose Desktop.
  - whoisthemachine 2y ago
    Interesting! Would be curious to know what that is like.
vinayan3 2y ago
I've been hoping that Fleet would emerge as a true multi language IDE. I code in GoLang and Python regularly. I currently have the Python plugin in Goland which is not the professional plugin. If I want them I have to use a different IDE and switching back and forth is a pain. Also, with a rewrite I've hoped that remote development will be less buggy than it currently is with Goland. It's laggy too and you see weird screen flashes. Sometimes certain features don't even work over remote.
- solardev 2y ago
  Can you not use IntelliJ IDEA (the Java one) with the Python and Go plugins?
  - danw1979 2y ago
    yes you can, but only the paid for Ultimate edition if you want the Golang plugin.
  - vinayan3 2y ago
    Yes I tried this for awhile but I hit some very odd issue with the bazel plugin and the codebase I work on. It went away when I switched to Goland. I haven't tried again to see if newer versions have fixed the issue.
pantulis 2y ago
> I still don't understand where Jetbrains is going with Fleet. Is it a platform to prototype ideas for their IDEs? Is their long-term goal to replace their IDEs with Fleet? Is it just a standalone product? They don't necessarily need to exactly know what it is, perhaps is just Jetbrains hedging their bets.
root3 2y ago
"doing twice as much work for nothing" - it's precisely right
alde 2y ago
I talked to a Jetbrains representative at a conference about this. They said Fleet was/is an experiment in the realtime collaboration tech, which really bloomed during Covid. They said it is no longer seen as a good direction internally, so not to expect much. Maybe things have changed since then, no idea.
- giancarlostoro 2y ago
  That's a shame to hear, I really would love something like Fleet from them where I dont have to install the umpteenth IDE flavor, or use one of their plugins with an IDE built around something else entirely.
silentsudo 2y ago
definitely not replacement as existing ide and plugin support is way ahead of fleet not even near to be even considered.

gf000 2y ago

I believe they are heavily reusing the non-UI part of Intellij and the like, so it's not really 2x the development.

vips7L 2y ago
Yeah I think they're just trying to get out of Swing by developing a new ui, Swing isn't that fun to develop.
- tadfisher 2y ago
  Unfortunately they started building Fleet before Compose Multiplatform was ready, so now they support three UI technologies. Granted, Fleet uses the same rendering base as Compose (Skiko), but that's got to be a dead end ultimately.
ashu1461 2y ago
Usually Intellij products are slow and fleet does not seem to be slow, so it is feels likely a lot of code was rewritten to make it fast.
- sfn42 2y ago
  I don't think they're slow at all. Takes a while to index when opening a new project, then everything is snappy. My main reason for using JB is I loathe the shitty build your own ide experience of VSC. Everything is more difficult, whereas in JB everything just works.
- nerdix 2y ago
  Fleet has a "smart mode" that can load an intellij backend for IDE like features. But that only happens if you enable it. Thats why it can do Kotlin even though Kotlin doesn't have an official LSP.

solardev 2y ago

I think Fleet's their hopeful answer to VSCode. IntelliJ is powerful, but so, so messy, with a convoluted UI from the 90s/2000s. Even the simplified one is much klunklier than VSCode, especially for everyday/every-hour tasks like NPM scripts, debugging, etc. Every essential function is hidden in tiny competing side panels triggered by some obscure icon in a different part of the screen. I love and use Jetbrains IDEs every day, but after a decade I still only find their UIs merely tolerable. Many of my colleagues try them out for an hour or two and then jump ship back to VSCode just because the initial "wtf is going on" factor is so high =/ I'm guessing Fleet was their answer, an opportunity to develop a greenfield UI for a new generation of devs raised with UX (vs the old guard of IntelliJ users from past decades). It made sense, until AI suddenly took over everything and nobody cared what your IDE UI is like anymore.

nprateem 2y ago
[flagged]
- MattPalmer1086 2y ago
  I see no flamebait. Your own post is much more flamebaity.
homebrewer 2y ago
You forgot to add "IMHO". IDEA has fantastic UI, it's fully configurable and 100% usable through pre-assigned hotkeys. For example, fuzzy search is available everywhere, in every tool window, in the database window, in search results, etc. The same key combination (ctrl+alt+arrow up/down on my instance) can be used to jump between search results, symbol usages, TODOs, linter results, and so on. They thought through and implemented countless convenient features, most of which I will not be able to remember, but do use every day purely through muscle memory. They're also now intent on destroying them in favor of the "new" primitive UI by trying to cater to new users (who are seemingly fine with never becoming power users). The good UI is still available through a plugin, but it's obvious it will be dropped in the next few years. I'm pretty sure they will lose the old guard like me right after that.

konradkissener 2y ago

I don’t understand it either. I don’t think it appeals to many VS Code users, and to IntelliJ users probably even less so. KMP support was the only reason I was still curious about Fleet. I presume this announcement is the beginning of the end for Fleet.

sureIy 2y ago
It definitely appeals VSC users like VSC appealed to Sublime Text. There was really no reason for ST users to switch to VSC other than better tool integration. Winning people over from VSC means having a free and fast editor with great features and lots of useful plugins. Still a long way to go.

vunderba 2y ago

Personally I had always hoped that Fleet was intended to be sort of a lightweight editor in the same arena as notepad++ or sublime.

whoisthemachine 2y ago

In my opinion it seems like an experimental competitor to VS Code while also giving them a way to dog food new Java-based UI frameworks (KMP, Compose).

NoahKAndrews 2y ago
Except it doesn't use Compose, it uses its own new thing that sounds kind of similar, but predates Compose Desktop.
- whoisthemachine 2y ago
  Interesting! Would be curious to know what that is like.

vinayan3 2y ago

I've been hoping that Fleet would emerge as a true multi language IDE. I code in GoLang and Python regularly. I currently have the Python plugin in Goland which is not the professional plugin. If I want them I have to use a different IDE and switching back and forth is a pain. Also, with a rewrite I've hoped that remote development will be less buggy than it currently is with Goland. It's laggy too and you see weird screen flashes. Sometimes certain features don't even work over remote.

solardev 2y ago
Can you not use IntelliJ IDEA (the Java one) with the Python and Go plugins?
- danw1979 2y ago
  yes you can, but only the paid for Ultimate edition if you want the Golang plugin.
- vinayan3 2y ago
  Yes I tried this for awhile but I hit some very odd issue with the bazel plugin and the codebase I work on. It went away when I switched to Goland. I haven't tried again to see if newer versions have fixed the issue.

pantulis 2y ago

> I still don't understand where Jetbrains is going with Fleet. Is it a platform to prototype ideas for their IDEs? Is their long-term goal to replace their IDEs with Fleet? Is it just a standalone product? They don't necessarily need to exactly know what it is, perhaps is just Jetbrains hedging their bets.

root3 2y ago

"doing twice as much work for nothing" - it's precisely right

alde 2y ago

I talked to a Jetbrains representative at a conference about this. They said Fleet was/is an experiment in the realtime collaboration tech, which really bloomed during Covid. They said it is no longer seen as a good direction internally, so not to expect much. Maybe things have changed since then, no idea.

giancarlostoro 2y ago
That's a shame to hear, I really would love something like Fleet from them where I dont have to install the umpteenth IDE flavor, or use one of their plugins with an IDE built around something else entirely.

silentsudo 2y ago

definitely not replacement as existing ide and plugin support is way ahead of fleet not even near to be even considered.