12 ms·

Gemini 2.0 is now available to everyone

612 points by meetpateltech 2y ago

lowmagnet 2y ago
Here's me not using Gemini 1 because the only use case for me for old assistant is setting a timer. Because of reports that Gemini is randomly incapable of setting one.
- progbits 2y ago
  How does release of LLM API relate to assistant?
  - w0m 2y ago
    Pixels replaced Assistent w/ Gemini a while back and it was horrendous; would answer questions but not perform the basic tasks you actually used Assistant for (setting timer, navigating, home control, etc). Seems like they're approaching parity (finally) months and months later (alarms/tv control work at least now), but losing basic oft-used functionality is a serious fumble.
    - KeplerBoy 2y ago
      It's not just pixels. That feature rolled out to billions of android phones.
    - VenturingVole 2y ago
      I feel as though some of the rigour of systems engineering is missing from AI model development/integration. Not a negative per-se, as velocity is incredibly important: But it seems a lot of lessons have to be learned again. I sometimes forget - it is still very early days relatively speaking. As a user of Gemini 2.0, so far I have been very impressed for the most part.
    - progbits 2y ago
      Thanks, didn't know, never really used these voice assistants. It's a weird choice, I suppose the endless handcrafted rules and tools don't scale across languages and usecases but then LLM are not good at reliability. And what's the point of using assistant that will not do the task reliably, if you have to double-check you are better of not using it...
      - w0m 2y ago
        The issue wasn't inconsistency it was "had no home integration at all" at launch. They rushed to roll out the 'new' assistant and didn't bother waiting for the basic feature set first. Today; it works ~perfectly for TV control/Alarm setting - I can't think of it not working first try in the last month or so for me. Maybe more consistent than prior? The rollout was simply borked from the PM/Decision making side.
butlike 2y ago
Flash is back, baby. Next release should be called Gemini Macromedia
- VenturingVole 2y ago
  Or perhaps it'll help people to weave their dreams together and so it should be called.. ahh I feel old all of a sudden.
  - benob 2y ago
    You made me feel old ;)
    - VenturingVole 2y ago
      Everyone old is new again! On a serious note - LLMs have actually brought me a lot of joy lately and elevated my productivity substantially within the domains in which I choose to use them. When witnessing the less experienced more readily accept outputs without understanding the nuances there's definitely additional value in being... experienced.
  - sbruchmann 2y ago
    Google Frontpage?
    - VenturingVole 2y ago
      I feel seen! Also just had to explain to the better half why I suddenly shuddered and pulled such a face of despair.
      - butlike 2y ago
        Why the p[artition?
  - lamuswawir 2y ago
    Dreamweaver!
sho_hn 2y ago
Anyone have a take on how the coding performance (quality and speed) of the 2.0 Pro Experimental compares to o3-mini-high? The 2 million token window sure feels exciting.
- mohsen1 2y ago
  I don't know what those "needle in haystack" benchmarks are testing for because in my experience dumping a big amount of code in the context is not working as you'd expect. It works better if you keep the context small
  - airstrike 2y ago
    I think the sweet spot is to include some context that is limited to the scope of the problem and benefit from the longer context window to keep longer conversations going. I often go back to an earlier message on that thread and rewrite with understanding from that longer conversation so that I can continue to manage the context window
  - cma 2y ago
    Claude works well for me loading code up to around 80% of its 200K context and then asking for changes. If the whole project can't fit I try to at least get in headers and then the most relevant files. It doesn't seem to degrade. If you are using something like an AI IDE a lot of times they don't really get the 200K context.
- TuxSH 2y ago
  Bad (though I haven't tested autocompletion). It's underperforming other models on livebench.ai. With Copilot Pro and DeepSeek's website, I ran "find logic bugs" on a 1200 LOC file I actually needed code review for: - DeepSeek R1 found like 7 real bugs out of 10 suggested with the remaining 3 being acceptable false positives due to missing context - Claude was about the same with fewer remaining bugs; no hallucinations either - Meanwhile, Gemini had 100% false positive rate, with many hallucinations and unhelpful answers to the prompt I understand Gemini 2.0 is not a reasoning model, but DeepClaude remains the most effective LLM combo so far.
gwern 2y ago
2.0 Pro Experimental seems like the big news here? > Today, we’re releasing an experimental version of Gemini 2.0 Pro that responds to that feedback. It has the strongest coding performance and ability to handle complex prompts, with better understanding and reasoning of world knowledge, than any model we’ve released so far. It comes with our largest context window at 2 million tokens, which enables it to comprehensively analyze and understand vast amounts of information, as well as the ability to call tools like Google Search and code execution.
- Tiberium 2y ago
  It's not that big of a news because they already had gemini-exp-1206 on the API - they just didn't say it was Gemini 2.0 Pro until today. Now the AI Studio marks it as 2.0 Pro Experimental - basically an older snapshot, the newer one is gemini-2.0-pro-exp-02-05.
  - Alifatisk 2y ago
    Oh so the previous model gemini-exp-1206 is now gemini-2.0-pro-experimental on aistudio? Is it better than gemini-2.0-flash-thinking-exp?
    - gpm 2y ago
      It's not a thinking model, and as such is probably going to be good and bad at different things. For the handful of prompts I've thrown at both, it (exp-1206) was generally better than gemin-2.0-flash-thinking-exp, but that could easily be a property of the prompts I tried.
mohsen1 2y ago
> available via the Gemini API in Google AI Studio and Vertex AI. > Gemini 2.0, 2.0 Pro and 2.0 Pro Experimental, Gemini 2.0 Flash, Gemini 2.0 Flash Lite 3 different ways of accessing the API, more than 5 different but extremely similarly named models. Benchmarks only comparing to their own models. Can't be more "Googley"!
- sho_hn 2y ago
  I think this is a good summary: https://storage.googleapis.com/gweb-developer-goog-blog-assets/images/Full_Chart_G2.0.original.png https://storage.googleapis.com/gweb-developer-goog-blog-asse...
  - vdfs 2y ago
    - Experimental™ - Preview™ - Coming soon™
    - esafak 2y ago
      Don't forget the OG, "Beta". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Gmail#Extended_beta_phase https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Gmail#Extended_beta...
    - hoytschermerhrn 2y ago
      - Generally Available? Available?? Simply showing a checkmark??? - In Experimental? Coming soon?? Make it make sense.
- llm_trw 2y ago
  You missed the first sentence of the release: >In December, we kicked off the agentic era by releasing an experimental version of Gemini 2.0 Flash I guess I wasn't building AI agents in February last year.
  - soulofmischief 2y ago
    Yeah some of us have been working on agents predominately for years now, but at least people are finally paying attention. Can't wait to be told how I'm following a hype cycle again.
butz 2y ago
Does "everyone" here means "users with google accounts"?
esafak 2y ago
Benchmarks or it didn't happen. Anything better than https://lmarena.ai/?leaderboard https://lmarena.ai/?leaderboard? My experience with the Gemini 1.5 models has been positive. I think Google has caught up.
- famouswaffles 2y ago
  Livebench is better. llmarena is a vibes benchmark
- Hrun0 2y ago
  Some of my saved bookmarks: - https://aider.chat/docs/leaderboards/ https://aider.chat/docs/leaderboards/ - https://www.prollm.ai/leaderboard https://www.prollm.ai/leaderboard - https://www.vellum.ai/llm-leaderboard https://www.vellum.ai/llm-leaderboard - https://lmarena.ai/?leaderboard https://lmarena.ai/?leaderboard
yogthos 2y ago
I wish the blog mentioned whether they backported DeepSeek ideas into their model to make it more efficient.
- weatherlite 2y ago
  Only DeepSeek is allowed to take ideas from everyone else?
singhrac 2y ago
What is the model I get at gemini.google.com (i.e. through my Workspace subscription)? It says "Gemini Advanced" but there are no other details. No model selection option. I find the lack of clarity very frustrating. If I want to try Google's "best" model, should I be purchasing something? AI Studio seems focused around building an LLM wrapper app, but I just want something to answer my questions. Edit: what I've learned through Googling: (1) if you search "is gemini advanced included with workspace" you get an AI overview answer that seems to be incorrect, since they now include Gemini Advanced (?) with every workspace subscription.(2) a page exists telling you to buy the add-on (Gemini for Google Workspace), but clicking on it says this is no longer available because of the above. (3) gemini.google.com says "Gemini Advanced" (no idea which model) at the top, but gemini.google.com/advanced redirects me to what I have deduced is the consumer site (?) which tells me that Gemini Advanced is another $20/month The problem, Google PMs if you're reading this, is that the gemini.google.com page does not have ANY information about what is going on. What model is this? What are the limits? Do I get access to "Deep Research"? Does this subscription give me something in aistudio? What about code artifacts? The settings option tells me I can change to dark mode (thanks!). Edit 2: I decided to use aistudio.google.com since it has a dropdown for me on my workspace plan.
- ysofunny 2y ago
  hmm did you try clickin where it says 'gemini advanced'? I find it opens a drop down
  - singhrac 2y ago
    I just tried it but nothing happens when I click on that. You're talking about the thing on the upper left next to the open/close menu button?
    - easychris 2y ago
      Yes, very frustrating for me as well. I consider now purchasing Gemini Advance with another Non-Workspace account. :-( I also found this [1]: “ Important: A chat can only use one model. If you switch between models in an existing chat, it automatically starts a new chat. If you’re using Gemini Apps with a work or school Google Account, you can’t switch between models. Learn more about using Gemini Apps with a work or school account.” I have no idea why the workspace accounts are such restricted. [1] https://support.google.com/gemini/answer/14517446?hl=en&co=GENIE.Platform%3DAndroid https://support.google.com/gemini/answer/14517446?hl=en&co=G...
gallerdude 2y ago
Is there really no standalone app, like ChatGPT/Claude/DeepSeek, available yet for Gemini?
- bangaladore 2y ago
  Presumably any app that is API agnostic works fine. I'm not sure why you would want an app for each anyways.
- silvajoao 2y ago
  The standalone app is at https://gemini.google.com/app https://gemini.google.com/app, and is similar to ChatGPT. You can also use https://aistudio.google.com https://aistudio.google.com to use base models directly.
- browningstreet 2y ago
  What do you mean by an app? I have a Gemini app on my iPhone.
deleted 2y ago
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pmayrgundter 2y ago
I tried voice chat. It's very good, except for the politics We started talking about my plans for the day, and I said I was making chili. G asked if I have a recipe or if I needed one. I said, I started with Obama's recipe many years ago and have worked on it from there. G gave me a form response that it can't talk politics. Oh, I'm not talking politics, I'm talking chili. G then repeated form response and tried to change conversation, and as long as I didn't use the O word, we were allowed to proceed. Phew
- xnorswap 2y ago
  I find it horrifying and dystopian that the part where it "Can't talk politics" is just accepted and your complaint is that it interrupts your ability to talk chilli. "Go back to bed America." "You are free, to do as we tell you" https://youtu.be/TNPeYflsMdg?t=143 https://youtu.be/TNPeYflsMdg?t=143
  - falcor84 2y ago
    Hear, hear! There has to be a better way about it. As I see it, to be productive, AI agents have to be able to talk about politics, because at the end of the day politics are everywhere. So following up on what they do already, they'll have to define a model's political stance (whatever it is), and to have it hold its ground, voicing an opinion or abstaining from voicing an opinion, but continuing the conversation, as a person would (at least as those of us who don't rage-quit a conversation when they hear something slightly controversial).
    - freedomben 2y ago
      There aren't many mono-cultures as strong as silicon valley politics. Where this intersects with my beliefs I love it, but where it doesn't it is maddening. I suspect that's how most people feel. But anyway, when one is rarely or never challenged on their beliefs, they become rusty. Do you trust them to do a good job training their own views into the model, let alone training in the views of someone on the opposite side of the spectrum?
oulipo 2y ago
[flagged]
leetharris 2y ago
These names are unbelievably bad. Flash, Flash-Lite? How do these AI companies keep doing this? Sonnet 3.5 v2 o3-mini-high Gemini Flash-Lite It's like a competition to see who can make the goofiest naming conventions. Regarding model quality, we experiment with Google models constantly at Rev and they are consistently the worst of all the major players. They always benchmark well and consistently fail in real tasks. If this is just a small update to the gemini-exp-1206 model, then I think they will still be in last place.
- falcor84 2y ago
  > It's like a competition to see who can make the goofiest naming conventions. I'm still waiting for one of them to overflow from version 360 down to One.
  - cheeze 2y ago
    Just wait for One X, S, Series X, Series X Pro, Series X Pro with Super Fast Charging 2.0
    - kridsdale3 2y ago
      Meanwhile: Playstation Playstation 2 Playstation 3 Playstation 4 Playstation 5
      - miohtama 2y ago
        Unlike Sony, Google attempts to confuse people for people to use their limited models as they are free to run and most won't pay.
      - cybertronic 2y ago
        actually just for the PS5 we have: PS5 Standard Edition, PS5 Digital Edition, PS5 First Chassis Revision, PS5 Second Chassis Revision, PS5 Slim Standard Edition, PS5 Slim Digital Edition, PS5 Pro
mtaras 2y ago
Updates for Gemini models will always be exciting to me because of how generous free API tier is, I barely run into limits for personal use. Huge context window is a huge advantage for use in personal projects, too
silvajoao 2y ago
Try out the new models at https://aistudio.google.com https://aistudio.google.com. It's a great way to experiment with all the Gemini models that are also available via the API. If you haven't yet, try also Live mode at https://aistudio.google.com/live https://aistudio.google.com/live. You can have a live conversation with Gemini and have the model see the world via your phone camera (or see your desktop via screenshare on the web), and talk about it. It's quite a cool experience! It made me feel the joy of programming and using computers that I had had so many times before.
- BoorishBears 2y ago
  Except Gemini multimodal outputs are still under lock and key except for a select few. Very disappointing to see the claim Gemini 2.0 is available for everyone when it's simply not. Seems like Google is following the OpenAI playbook on this.
Ninjinka 2y ago
Pricing is CRAZY. Audio input is $0.70 per million tokens on 2.0 Flash, $0.075 for 2.0 Flash-Lite and 1.5 Flash. For gpt-4o-mini-audio-preview, it's $10 per million tokens of audio input.
- sunaookami 2y ago
  Sadly: "Gemini can only infer responses to English-language speech." https://ai.google.dev/gemini-api/docs/audio?lang=rest#technical-details https://ai.google.dev/gemini-api/docs/audio?lang=rest#techni...
  - mbrock 2y ago
    I don't know what they mean by this but the obvious interpretation is not true. It understands other languages, it even does really well with low representation languages, in my case Latvian.
- KTibow 2y ago
  The increase is likely because 1.5 Flash was actually cheaper than all other STT services. I wrote about this a while ago at https://ktibow.github.io/blog/geminiaudio/ https://ktibow.github.io/blog/geminiaudio/.
  - radeeyate 2y ago
    I feel that the audio interpreting aspects of the Gemini models aren't just STT. If you give it something like a song, it can give you information about it.
denysvitali 2y ago
When will they release Gemini 2.0 Pro Max?
deleted 2y ago
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msuvakov 2y ago
Gemini 2.0 works great with large context. A few hours ago, I posted a ShowHN about parsing an entire book in a single prompt. The goal was to extract characters, relationships, and descriptions that could then be used for image generation: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42946317 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42946317
- Alifatisk 2y ago
  Which Gemini model is notebooklm using atm? Have they switched yet?
  - msuvakov 2y ago
    Not sure. I am using models/API keys from https://aistudio.google.com https://aistudio.google.com. They just added new models, e.g., gemini-2.0-pro-exp-02-05. Exp models are free of charge with some daily quota depending on model.
jbarrow 2y ago
I've been very impressed by Gemini 2.0 Flash for multimodal tasks, including object detection and localization[1], plus document tasks. But the 15 requests per minute limit was a severe limiter while it was experimental. I'm really excited to be able to actually _do_ things with the model. In my experience, I'd reach for Gemini 2.0 Flash over 4o in a lot of multimodal/document use cases. Especially given the differences in price ($0.10/million input and $0.40/million output versus $2.50/million input and $10.00/million output). That being said, Qwen2.5 VL 72B and 7B seem even better at document image tasks and localization. [1] https://notes.penpusher.app/Misc/Google+Gemini+101+-+Object+Detection+with+Vision+and+Structured+Outputs https://notes.penpusher.app/Misc/Google+Gemini+101+-+Object+...
- Alifatisk 2y ago
  > In my experience, I'd reach for Gemini 2.0 Flash over 4o Why not use o1-mini?
  - jbarrow 2y ago
    Mostly because OpenAI's vision offerings aren't particularly compelling: - 4o can't really do localization, and ime is worse than Gemini 2.0 and Qwen2.5 at document tasks - 4o mini isn't cheaper than 4o for images because it uses a lot of tokens per image compared to 4o (~5600/tile vs 170/tile, where each tile is 512x512) - o1 has support for vision but is wildly expensive and slow - o3-mini doesn't yet have support for vision, and o1-mini never did
SuperHeavy256 2y ago
it sucks btw. I tried scheduling an event in google calendar through gemini, and it got the date wrong, the time wrong, and the timezone wrong. it set an event that's supposed to be tomorrow to next year.
- kridsdale3 2y ago
  To be fair, the best human programmers struggle like hell with date math.
karaterobot 2y ago
> Gemini 2.0 is now being forced on everyone.
rzz3 2y ago
It’s funny, I’ve never actually used Gemini and, though this may be incorrect, I automatically assume it’s awful. I assume it’s awful because the AI summaries at the top of Google Search are so awful, and that’s made me never give Google AI a chance.
- Alifatisk 2y ago
  The huge context window is a big selling point.
- blihp 2y ago
  I don't think your take is incorrect. I give it a try from time to time and it's always been inferior to other offerings for me every time I've tested it. Which I find a bit strange as NotebookLM (until recently) had been great to use. Whatever... there are plenty of other good options out there.
leonidasv 2y ago
That 1M tokens context window alone is going to kill a lot of RAG use cases. Crazy to see how we went from 4K tokens context windows (2023 ChatGPT-3.5) to 1M in less than 2 years.
- Alifatisk 2y ago
  Gemini can in theory handle 10M tokens, I remember they saying it in one of their presentations.
- monsieurbanana 2y ago
  Maybe someone knows, what's the usual recommendation regarding big context windows? Is it safe to use it to the max, or performance will degrade and we should adapt the maximum to our use case?
- Topfi 2y ago
  We have heard this before when 100k and 200k were first being normalized by Anthropic way back when and I tend to be skeptical in general when it comes to such predictions, but in this case, I have to agree. Having used the previews for the last few weeks with different tasks and personally designed challenges, what I found is that these models are not only capable of processing larger context windows on paper, but are also far better at actually handling long, dense, complex documents in full. Referencing back to something upon specific request, doing extensive rewrites in full whilst handling previous context, etc. These models also have handled my private needle in haystack-type challenges without issues as of yet, though those have been limited to roughly 200k in fairness. Neither Anthropics, OpenAIs, Deepseeks or previous Google models handled even 75k+ in any comparable manner. Cost will of course remain a factor and will keep RAG a viable choice for a while, but for the first time I am tempted to agree that someone has delivered a solution which showcases that a larger context window can in many cases work reliably and far more seemlessly. Is also the first time a Google model actually surprised me (positively), neither Bard, nor AI answers or any previous Gemini model had any appeal to me, even when testing specificially for what other claimed to be strenghts (such as Gemini 1.5s alleged Flutter expertise which got beaten by both OpenAI and Anthropics equivalent at the time).
- 2y ago
Alifatisk 2y ago
Exciting news to see these models being released to the Gemini app, I would wish my preferences on which model I want to default to got saved for further sessions. How many tokens can gemini.google.com handle as input? How large is the context window before it forgets? A quick search said it's 128k token window but that applies to Gemini 1.5 Pro, how is it now then? My assumption is that "Gemini 2.0 Flash Thinking Experimental is just" "Gemini 2.0 Flash" with reasoning and "Gemini 2.0 Flash Thinking Experimental with apps" is just "Gemini 2.0 Flash Thinking Experimental" with access to the web and Googles other services, right? So sticking to "Gemini 2.0 Flash Thinking Experimental with apps" should be the optimal choice. Is there any reason why Gemini 1.5 Flash is still an option? Feels like it should be removed as an option unless it does something better than the other. I have difficulties understanding where each variant of the Gemini model is suited the most. Looking at aistudio.google.com, they have already update the available models. Is "Gemini 2.0 Flash Thinking Experimental" on gemini.google.com just "Gemini experiment 1206" or was it "Gemini Flash Thinking Experimental" aistudio.google.com? I have a note on my notes app where I rank every llm based on instructions following and math, to this day, I've had difficulties knowing where to place every Gemini model. I know there is a little popup when you hover over each model that tries to explain what each model does and which tasks it is best suited for, but these explanations have been very vague to me. And I haven't even started on the Gemini Advanced series or whatever I should call it. The available models on aistudio is now: - Gemini 2.0 Flash (gemini-2.0-flash) - Gemini 2.0 Flash Lite Preview (gemini-2.0-flash-lite-preview-02-05) - Gemini 2.0 Pro Experimental (gemini-2.0-pro-exp-02-05) - Gemini 2.0 Flash Thinking Experimental (gemini-2.0-flash-thinking-exp-01-21) If I had to sort these from most likely to fulfill my need to least likely, then it would probably be: gemini-2.0-flash-thinking-exp-01-21 > gemini-2.0-pro-exp-02-05 > gemini-2.0-flash-lite-preview-02-05 > gemini-2.0-flash Why? Because aistudio describes gemini-2.0-flash-thinking-exp-01-21 as being able to tackle most complex and difficult tasks while gemini-2.0-pro-exp-02-05 and gemini-2.0-flash-lite-preview-02-05 only differs with how much context they can handle. So with that out of the way, how does Gemini-2.0-flash-thinking-exp-01-21 compare against o3-mini, Qwen 2.5 Max, Kimi k1.5, DeepSeek R1, DeepSeek V3 and Sonnet 3.5? My current list of benchmarks I go through is artificialanalysis.ai, lmarena.ai, livebench.ai and aider.chat:s polygot benchmark but still, the whole Gemini suite is difficult to reason and sort out. I feel like this trend of having many different models with the same name but different suffix starts be an obstacle to my mental model.
simonw 2y ago
I upgraded my llm-gemini plugin to handle this, and shared the results of my "Generate an SVG of a pelican riding a bicycle" benchmark here: https://simonwillison.net/2025/Feb/5/gemini-2/ https://simonwillison.net/2025/Feb/5/gemini-2/ The pricing is interesting: Gemini 2.0 Flash-Lite is 7.5c/million input tokens and 30c/million output tokens - half the price of OpenAI's GPT-4o mini (15c/60c). Gemini 2.0 Flash isn't much more: 10c/million for text/image input, 70c/million for audio input, 40c/million for output. Again, cheaper than GPT-4o mini.
- zamadatix 2y ago
  Is there a way to see/compare the shared results for all of the LLMs you've tested this prompt on in one place? The 2.0 pro result seems decent but I don't have a baseline if that's because it is or if the other 2 are just "extremely bad" or something.
  - nolist_policy 2y ago
    Search by tag: https://simonwillison.net/tags/pelican-riding-a-bicycle/ https://simonwillison.net/tags/pelican-riding-a-bicycle/
- iimaginary 2y ago
  The only benchmark worth paying attention to.
- qingcharles 2y ago
  Not a bad pelican from 2.0 Pro! The singularity is almost upon us :)
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- mattlondon 2y ago
  The SVGs are starting to look actually recognisable! You'll need a new benchmark soon :)
serjester 2y ago
For anyone that parsing PDF's this is a game changer in term of price per dollar - I wrote a blog about it [1]. I think a lot of people were nervous about pricing since they released the beta, and although it's slightly more expensive than 1.5 Flash, this is still incredibly cost-effective. Looking forward to also benchmarking the lite version. [1] https://www.sergey.fyi/articles/gemini-flash-2 https://www.sergey.fyi/articles/gemini-flash-2
mmanfrin 2y ago
It sure is cool that people who joined Google's pixel pass continue to be unable to give them money to access Advanced.
staticman2 2y ago
I have a fun query in AI studio where I pasted a 800,000 token Wuxia martial arts novel and ask it worldbuilding questions. 1.5 pro and the old 2.0 flash experimental generated responses in AI studio but the new 2.0 models respond with blank answers. I wonder if it's timing out or some sort of newer censorship models is preventing 2.0 from answering my query. The novel is pg-13 at most but references to "bronze skinned southern barbarians" "courtesans" "drugs" "demonic sects" and murder could I guess set it off.
- champdebloom 2y ago
  I can’t say I ever expected to see this here, but thank you for making my day! I might try this as a filler remover for the novels I find drag on and on.
barrenko 2y ago
If you're Google and you're reading, please offer finetuning on multi-part dialogue.
crowcroft 2y ago
Worth noting that with 2.0 they're now offering free search tool use for 1,500 queries per day. Their search costs 7x Perplexity Sonar's but imagine a lot of people will start with Google given they can get a pretty decent amount of search for free now.
mistrial9 2y ago
Why does no one mention that you must login with a Google account, with all of the record keeping, cross correlations and 3rd party access implied there..
m_ppp 2y ago
I'm interested to know how well video processing works here. Ran into some problems when I was using vertex to serve longer youtube videos.
bionhoward 2y ago
I always get to, “You may not use the Services to develop models that compete with the Services (e.g., Gemini API or Google AI Studio).” [1] and exit - [1] https://ai.google.dev/gemini-api/terms https://ai.google.dev/gemini-api/terms
- torginus 2y ago
  I wonder what are the legal implications of breaking the ToS - besides termination of your account?
- BoorishBears 2y ago
  I just ignore that. If I'm ever large enough to be worth suing, I'll be very happy.
  - danskeren 2y ago
    They don't need to sue, they'll just ban your account with no warning or explanation the moment you get on their radar.. at least that's what they did to me.
    - BoorishBears 2y ago
      That's a pretty extraordinary claim that you should expand on. How did they know you were using Gemini to train another model?
foresto 2y ago
Not to be confused with Project Gemini. https://geminiprotocol.net/ https://geminiprotocol.net/
user3939382 2y ago
I wonder how common this is, but my interest in this product is 0 simply because my level of trust and feeling of goodwill for Google almost couldn’t be lower.
sylware 2y ago
This is a lie since I don't have a google account, and cannot search on google anymore since noscript/basic (x)html browsers interop was broken a few weeks ago.
tmaly 2y ago
I am on the iOS app and I see Gemini 2.0 and Gemini 1.5 as options in the drop down. I am on free tier
- dtquad 2y ago
  Try the Gemini webapp. It has a powerful reasoning model with Google Search and Maps integration.
CSMastermind 2y ago
Is it still the case that it doesn't really support video input? As in I have a video file I want to send it to the model and get a response about it. Not their 'live stream' or whatever functionality.
TacticalCoder 2y ago
[dead]
ryao 2y ago
Google should release the weights under a MIT license like Deepseek.
- WiSaGaN 2y ago
  They won't after OpenAI used transformer and refused to give back.
  - ryao 2y ago
    How is that relevant?
johan147 2y ago
[dead]
starchild3001 2y ago
I use all top of the line models everyday. Not for coding, but for general "cognitive" tasks like research, thinking, analysis, writing etc. What Google calls Gemini Pro 2.0 has been my most favorite model for the past couple of months. I think o1/4o come pretty close. Those are kinda equals, with a slight preference for Gemini. Claude has fallen behind, clearly. DeepSeek is intriguing. It excels occassionally where others won't. For consistency's sake, Gemini Pro 2.0 is amazing. I highly recommend using it via https://aistudio.google.com/ https://aistudio.google.com/. Gemini app has some additional bells and whistles, but for some reason quality isn't always on par with aistudio. Also Gemini app seems to have more filters -- it seems more shy answering controversial topics. Just some general impressions.
- tnias23 2y ago
  do you mean "Gemini 2.0 Pro Experimental 02-05"? too many similarly named models
  - starchild3001 2y ago
    Yes.
    - novok 2y ago
      How do you get around all the censorship? Gemini is even worse than Claude at times. And it's for things like "Obama's chili recipe" or "find the source of X person's science paper where they talked about Y in another language".
      - starchild3001 2y ago
        Not a major problem in my experience if you use the aistudio version of the model. Claude tends to be the most conservative in my experience. Gemini 2.0 and 4o appear similar.
lyzml_AF 2y ago
[dead]
darthapple76 2y ago
is this AGI yet?
DimuP 2y ago
Finally, it's here!
EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK 2y ago
I am dreaming about an aggregator site where one can select any model - openai, gemini, claude, llama, qwen... and pay API rate + some profit margin for any query. Without having to register with each AI provider, and without sharing my PII with them.
- artdigital 2y ago
  That’s openrouter.ai
  - EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK 2y ago
    Thanks, registering right now.
    - EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK 2y ago
      This one is good, and it even accepts Bitcoins for top-ups. But o3-mini is not available without an api key, so still need an openai subscription ...
      - RohMin 2y ago
        This is a policy enforced by OpenAI, not OpenRouter
andrewstuart 2y ago
I’ve tried Gemini many times and never found it to be useful at all compared to OpenAI and Claude.
bwb 2y ago
I am blown away by how bad this is compared to the competition. What is Google doing? I asked it to give me something simple like 6 results, and it gives me 3, not to mention bad data hallucinations that ChatGPT and others are working fine with.
eamag 2y ago
where can I try coding with it? Is it available in cursor/copilot?
adammarples 2y ago
how many "r"'s in strrawberry stumped it
dontseethefnord 2y ago
Does it still say that water isn’t frozen at 0 degrees Fahrenheit?

612 points by meetpateltech 2y ago

Here's me not using Gemini 1 because the only use case for me for old assistant is setting a timer. Because of reports that Gemini is randomly incapable of setting one.

progbits 2y ago
How does release of LLM API relate to assistant?
- w0m 2y ago
  Pixels replaced Assistent w/ Gemini a while back and it was horrendous; would answer questions but not perform the basic tasks you actually used Assistant for (setting timer, navigating, home control, etc). Seems like they're approaching parity (finally) months and months later (alarms/tv control work at least now), but losing basic oft-used functionality is a serious fumble.
  - KeplerBoy 2y ago
    It's not just pixels. That feature rolled out to billions of android phones.
  - VenturingVole 2y ago
    I feel as though some of the rigour of systems engineering is missing from AI model development/integration. Not a negative per-se, as velocity is incredibly important: But it seems a lot of lessons have to be learned again. I sometimes forget - it is still very early days relatively speaking. As a user of Gemini 2.0, so far I have been very impressed for the most part.
  - progbits 2y ago
    Thanks, didn't know, never really used these voice assistants. It's a weird choice, I suppose the endless handcrafted rules and tools don't scale across languages and usecases but then LLM are not good at reliability. And what's the point of using assistant that will not do the task reliably, if you have to double-check you are better of not using it...
    - w0m 2y ago
      The issue wasn't inconsistency it was "had no home integration at all" at launch. They rushed to roll out the 'new' assistant and didn't bother waiting for the basic feature set first. Today; it works ~perfectly for TV control/Alarm setting - I can't think of it not working first try in the last month or so for me. Maybe more consistent than prior? The rollout was simply borked from the PM/Decision making side.

butlike 2y ago

Flash is back, baby. Next release should be called Gemini Macromedia

VenturingVole 2y ago
Or perhaps it'll help people to weave their dreams together and so it should be called.. ahh I feel old all of a sudden.
- benob 2y ago
  You made me feel old ;)
  - VenturingVole 2y ago
    Everyone old is new again! On a serious note - LLMs have actually brought me a lot of joy lately and elevated my productivity substantially within the domains in which I choose to use them. When witnessing the less experienced more readily accept outputs without understanding the nuances there's definitely additional value in being... experienced.
- sbruchmann 2y ago
  Google Frontpage?
  - VenturingVole 2y ago
    I feel seen! Also just had to explain to the better half why I suddenly shuddered and pulled such a face of despair.
    - butlike 2y ago
      Why the p[artition?
- lamuswawir 2y ago
  Dreamweaver!

sho_hn 2y ago

Anyone have a take on how the coding performance (quality and speed) of the 2.0 Pro Experimental compares to o3-mini-high? The 2 million token window sure feels exciting.

mohsen1 2y ago
I don't know what those "needle in haystack" benchmarks are testing for because in my experience dumping a big amount of code in the context is not working as you'd expect. It works better if you keep the context small
- airstrike 2y ago
  I think the sweet spot is to include some context that is limited to the scope of the problem and benefit from the longer context window to keep longer conversations going. I often go back to an earlier message on that thread and rewrite with understanding from that longer conversation so that I can continue to manage the context window
- cma 2y ago
  Claude works well for me loading code up to around 80% of its 200K context and then asking for changes. If the whole project can't fit I try to at least get in headers and then the most relevant files. It doesn't seem to degrade. If you are using something like an AI IDE a lot of times they don't really get the 200K context.
TuxSH 2y ago
Bad (though I haven't tested autocompletion). It's underperforming other models on livebench.ai. With Copilot Pro and DeepSeek's website, I ran "find logic bugs" on a 1200 LOC file I actually needed code review for: - DeepSeek R1 found like 7 real bugs out of 10 suggested with the remaining 3 being acceptable false positives due to missing context - Claude was about the same with fewer remaining bugs; no hallucinations either - Meanwhile, Gemini had 100% false positive rate, with many hallucinations and unhelpful answers to the prompt I understand Gemini 2.0 is not a reasoning model, but DeepClaude remains the most effective LLM combo so far.

gwern 2y ago

2.0 Pro Experimental seems like the big news here? > Today, we’re releasing an experimental version of Gemini 2.0 Pro that responds to that feedback. It has the strongest coding performance and ability to handle complex prompts, with better understanding and reasoning of world knowledge, than any model we’ve released so far. It comes with our largest context window at 2 million tokens, which enables it to comprehensively analyze and understand vast amounts of information, as well as the ability to call tools like Google Search and code execution.

Tiberium 2y ago
It's not that big of a news because they already had gemini-exp-1206 on the API - they just didn't say it was Gemini 2.0 Pro until today. Now the AI Studio marks it as 2.0 Pro Experimental - basically an older snapshot, the newer one is gemini-2.0-pro-exp-02-05.
- Alifatisk 2y ago
  Oh so the previous model gemini-exp-1206 is now gemini-2.0-pro-experimental on aistudio? Is it better than gemini-2.0-flash-thinking-exp?
  - gpm 2y ago
    It's not a thinking model, and as such is probably going to be good and bad at different things. For the handful of prompts I've thrown at both, it (exp-1206) was generally better than gemin-2.0-flash-thinking-exp, but that could easily be a property of the prompts I tried.

mohsen1 2y ago

> available via the Gemini API in Google AI Studio and Vertex AI. > Gemini 2.0, 2.0 Pro and 2.0 Pro Experimental, Gemini 2.0 Flash, Gemini 2.0 Flash Lite 3 different ways of accessing the API, more than 5 different but extremely similarly named models. Benchmarks only comparing to their own models. Can't be more "Googley"!

sho_hn 2y ago
I think this is a good summary: https://storage.googleapis.com/gweb-developer-goog-blog-assets/images/Full_Chart_G2.0.original.png https://storage.googleapis.com/gweb-developer-goog-blog-asse...
- vdfs 2y ago
  - Experimental™ - Preview™ - Coming soon™
  - esafak 2y ago
    Don't forget the OG, "Beta". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Gmail#Extended_beta_phase https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Gmail#Extended_beta...
  - hoytschermerhrn 2y ago
    - Generally Available? Available?? Simply showing a checkmark??? - In Experimental? Coming soon?? Make it make sense.
llm_trw 2y ago
You missed the first sentence of the release: >In December, we kicked off the agentic era by releasing an experimental version of Gemini 2.0 Flash I guess I wasn't building AI agents in February last year.
- soulofmischief 2y ago
  Yeah some of us have been working on agents predominately for years now, but at least people are finally paying attention. Can't wait to be told how I'm following a hype cycle again.

butz 2y ago

Does "everyone" here means "users with google accounts"?

esafak 2y ago

Benchmarks or it didn't happen. Anything better than https://lmarena.ai/?leaderboard https://lmarena.ai/?leaderboard? My experience with the Gemini 1.5 models has been positive. I think Google has caught up.

famouswaffles 2y ago
Livebench is better. llmarena is a vibes benchmark
Hrun0 2y ago
Some of my saved bookmarks: - https://aider.chat/docs/leaderboards/ https://aider.chat/docs/leaderboards/ - https://www.prollm.ai/leaderboard https://www.prollm.ai/leaderboard - https://www.vellum.ai/llm-leaderboard https://www.vellum.ai/llm-leaderboard - https://lmarena.ai/?leaderboard https://lmarena.ai/?leaderboard

yogthos 2y ago

I wish the blog mentioned whether they backported DeepSeek ideas into their model to make it more efficient.

weatherlite 2y ago
Only DeepSeek is allowed to take ideas from everyone else?

singhrac 2y ago

What is the model I get at gemini.google.com (i.e. through my Workspace subscription)? It says "Gemini Advanced" but there are no other details. No model selection option. I find the lack of clarity very frustrating. If I want to try Google's "best" model, should I be purchasing something? AI Studio seems focused around building an LLM wrapper app, but I just want something to answer my questions. Edit: what I've learned through Googling: (1) if you search "is gemini advanced included with workspace" you get an AI overview answer that seems to be incorrect, since they now include Gemini Advanced (?) with every workspace subscription.(2) a page exists telling you to buy the add-on (Gemini for Google Workspace), but clicking on it says this is no longer available because of the above. (3) gemini.google.com says "Gemini Advanced" (no idea which model) at the top, but gemini.google.com/advanced redirects me to what I have deduced is the consumer site (?) which tells me that Gemini Advanced is another $20/month The problem, Google PMs if you're reading this, is that the gemini.google.com page does not have ANY information about what is going on. What model is this? What are the limits? Do I get access to "Deep Research"? Does this subscription give me something in aistudio? What about code artifacts? The settings option tells me I can change to dark mode (thanks!). Edit 2: I decided to use aistudio.google.com since it has a dropdown for me on my workspace plan.

ysofunny 2y ago
hmm did you try clickin where it says 'gemini advanced'? I find it opens a drop down
- singhrac 2y ago
  I just tried it but nothing happens when I click on that. You're talking about the thing on the upper left next to the open/close menu button?
  - easychris 2y ago
    Yes, very frustrating for me as well. I consider now purchasing Gemini Advance with another Non-Workspace account. :-( I also found this [1]: “ Important: A chat can only use one model. If you switch between models in an existing chat, it automatically starts a new chat. If you’re using Gemini Apps with a work or school Google Account, you can’t switch between models. Learn more about using Gemini Apps with a work or school account.” I have no idea why the workspace accounts are such restricted. [1] https://support.google.com/gemini/answer/14517446?hl=en&co=GENIE.Platform%3DAndroid https://support.google.com/gemini/answer/14517446?hl=en&co=G...

gallerdude 2y ago

Is there really no standalone app, like ChatGPT/Claude/DeepSeek, available yet for Gemini?

bangaladore 2y ago
Presumably any app that is API agnostic works fine. I'm not sure why you would want an app for each anyways.
silvajoao 2y ago
The standalone app is at https://gemini.google.com/app https://gemini.google.com/app, and is similar to ChatGPT. You can also use https://aistudio.google.com https://aistudio.google.com to use base models directly.
browningstreet 2y ago
What do you mean by an app? I have a Gemini app on my iPhone.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

pmayrgundter 2y ago

I tried voice chat. It's very good, except for the politics We started talking about my plans for the day, and I said I was making chili. G asked if I have a recipe or if I needed one. I said, I started with Obama's recipe many years ago and have worked on it from there. G gave me a form response that it can't talk politics. Oh, I'm not talking politics, I'm talking chili. G then repeated form response and tried to change conversation, and as long as I didn't use the O word, we were allowed to proceed. Phew

xnorswap 2y ago
I find it horrifying and dystopian that the part where it "Can't talk politics" is just accepted and your complaint is that it interrupts your ability to talk chilli. "Go back to bed America." "You are free, to do as we tell you" https://youtu.be/TNPeYflsMdg?t=143 https://youtu.be/TNPeYflsMdg?t=143
- falcor84 2y ago
  Hear, hear! There has to be a better way about it. As I see it, to be productive, AI agents have to be able to talk about politics, because at the end of the day politics are everywhere. So following up on what they do already, they'll have to define a model's political stance (whatever it is), and to have it hold its ground, voicing an opinion or abstaining from voicing an opinion, but continuing the conversation, as a person would (at least as those of us who don't rage-quit a conversation when they hear something slightly controversial).
  - freedomben 2y ago
    There aren't many mono-cultures as strong as silicon valley politics. Where this intersects with my beliefs I love it, but where it doesn't it is maddening. I suspect that's how most people feel. But anyway, when one is rarely or never challenged on their beliefs, they become rusty. Do you trust them to do a good job training their own views into the model, let alone training in the views of someone on the opposite side of the spectrum?

oulipo 2y ago

[flagged]

leetharris 2y ago

These names are unbelievably bad. Flash, Flash-Lite? How do these AI companies keep doing this? Sonnet 3.5 v2 o3-mini-high Gemini Flash-Lite It's like a competition to see who can make the goofiest naming conventions. Regarding model quality, we experiment with Google models constantly at Rev and they are consistently the worst of all the major players. They always benchmark well and consistently fail in real tasks. If this is just a small update to the gemini-exp-1206 model, then I think they will still be in last place.

falcor84 2y ago
> It's like a competition to see who can make the goofiest naming conventions. I'm still waiting for one of them to overflow from version 360 down to One.
- cheeze 2y ago
  Just wait for One X, S, Series X, Series X Pro, Series X Pro with Super Fast Charging 2.0
  - kridsdale3 2y ago
    Meanwhile: Playstation Playstation 2 Playstation 3 Playstation 4 Playstation 5
    - miohtama 2y ago
      Unlike Sony, Google attempts to confuse people for people to use their limited models as they are free to run and most won't pay.
    - cybertronic 2y ago
      actually just for the PS5 we have: PS5 Standard Edition, PS5 Digital Edition, PS5 First Chassis Revision, PS5 Second Chassis Revision, PS5 Slim Standard Edition, PS5 Slim Digital Edition, PS5 Pro

mtaras 2y ago

Updates for Gemini models will always be exciting to me because of how generous free API tier is, I barely run into limits for personal use. Huge context window is a huge advantage for use in personal projects, too

silvajoao 2y ago

Try out the new models at https://aistudio.google.com https://aistudio.google.com. It's a great way to experiment with all the Gemini models that are also available via the API. If you haven't yet, try also Live mode at https://aistudio.google.com/live https://aistudio.google.com/live. You can have a live conversation with Gemini and have the model see the world via your phone camera (or see your desktop via screenshare on the web), and talk about it. It's quite a cool experience! It made me feel the joy of programming and using computers that I had had so many times before.

BoorishBears 2y ago
Except Gemini multimodal outputs are still under lock and key except for a select few. Very disappointing to see the claim Gemini 2.0 is available for everyone when it's simply not. Seems like Google is following the OpenAI playbook on this.

Ninjinka 2y ago

Pricing is CRAZY. Audio input is $0.70 per million tokens on 2.0 Flash, $0.075 for 2.0 Flash-Lite and 1.5 Flash. For gpt-4o-mini-audio-preview, it's $10 per million tokens of audio input.

sunaookami 2y ago
Sadly: "Gemini can only infer responses to English-language speech." https://ai.google.dev/gemini-api/docs/audio?lang=rest#technical-details https://ai.google.dev/gemini-api/docs/audio?lang=rest#techni...
- mbrock 2y ago
  I don't know what they mean by this but the obvious interpretation is not true. It understands other languages, it even does really well with low representation languages, in my case Latvian.
KTibow 2y ago
The increase is likely because 1.5 Flash was actually cheaper than all other STT services. I wrote about this a while ago at https://ktibow.github.io/blog/geminiaudio/ https://ktibow.github.io/blog/geminiaudio/.
- radeeyate 2y ago
  I feel that the audio interpreting aspects of the Gemini models aren't just STT. If you give it something like a song, it can give you information about it.

denysvitali 2y ago

When will they release Gemini 2.0 Pro Max?

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

msuvakov 2y ago

Gemini 2.0 works great with large context. A few hours ago, I posted a ShowHN about parsing an entire book in a single prompt. The goal was to extract characters, relationships, and descriptions that could then be used for image generation: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42946317 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42946317

Alifatisk 2y ago
Which Gemini model is notebooklm using atm? Have they switched yet?
- msuvakov 2y ago
  Not sure. I am using models/API keys from https://aistudio.google.com https://aistudio.google.com. They just added new models, e.g., gemini-2.0-pro-exp-02-05. Exp models are free of charge with some daily quota depending on model.

jbarrow 2y ago

I've been very impressed by Gemini 2.0 Flash for multimodal tasks, including object detection and localization[1], plus document tasks. But the 15 requests per minute limit was a severe limiter while it was experimental. I'm really excited to be able to actually _do_ things with the model. In my experience, I'd reach for Gemini 2.0 Flash over 4o in a lot of multimodal/document use cases. Especially given the differences in price ($0.10/million input and $0.40/million output versus $2.50/million input and $10.00/million output). That being said, Qwen2.5 VL 72B and 7B seem even better at document image tasks and localization. [1] https://notes.penpusher.app/Misc/Google+Gemini+101+-+Object+Detection+with+Vision+and+Structured+Outputs https://notes.penpusher.app/Misc/Google+Gemini+101+-+Object+...

Alifatisk 2y ago
> In my experience, I'd reach for Gemini 2.0 Flash over 4o Why not use o1-mini?
- jbarrow 2y ago
  Mostly because OpenAI's vision offerings aren't particularly compelling: - 4o can't really do localization, and ime is worse than Gemini 2.0 and Qwen2.5 at document tasks - 4o mini isn't cheaper than 4o for images because it uses a lot of tokens per image compared to 4o (~5600/tile vs 170/tile, where each tile is 512x512) - o1 has support for vision but is wildly expensive and slow - o3-mini doesn't yet have support for vision, and o1-mini never did

SuperHeavy256 2y ago

it sucks btw. I tried scheduling an event in google calendar through gemini, and it got the date wrong, the time wrong, and the timezone wrong. it set an event that's supposed to be tomorrow to next year.

kridsdale3 2y ago
To be fair, the best human programmers struggle like hell with date math.

karaterobot 2y ago

> Gemini 2.0 is now being forced on everyone.

rzz3 2y ago

It’s funny, I’ve never actually used Gemini and, though this may be incorrect, I automatically assume it’s awful. I assume it’s awful because the AI summaries at the top of Google Search are so awful, and that’s made me never give Google AI a chance.

Alifatisk 2y ago
The huge context window is a big selling point.
blihp 2y ago
I don't think your take is incorrect. I give it a try from time to time and it's always been inferior to other offerings for me every time I've tested it. Which I find a bit strange as NotebookLM (until recently) had been great to use. Whatever... there are plenty of other good options out there.

leonidasv 2y ago

That 1M tokens context window alone is going to kill a lot of RAG use cases. Crazy to see how we went from 4K tokens context windows (2023 ChatGPT-3.5) to 1M in less than 2 years.

Alifatisk 2y ago
Gemini can in theory handle 10M tokens, I remember they saying it in one of their presentations.
monsieurbanana 2y ago
Maybe someone knows, what's the usual recommendation regarding big context windows? Is it safe to use it to the max, or performance will degrade and we should adapt the maximum to our use case?
Topfi 2y ago
We have heard this before when 100k and 200k were first being normalized by Anthropic way back when and I tend to be skeptical in general when it comes to such predictions, but in this case, I have to agree. Having used the previews for the last few weeks with different tasks and personally designed challenges, what I found is that these models are not only capable of processing larger context windows on paper, but are also far better at actually handling long, dense, complex documents in full. Referencing back to something upon specific request, doing extensive rewrites in full whilst handling previous context, etc. These models also have handled my private needle in haystack-type challenges without issues as of yet, though those have been limited to roughly 200k in fairness. Neither Anthropics, OpenAIs, Deepseeks or previous Google models handled even 75k+ in any comparable manner. Cost will of course remain a factor and will keep RAG a viable choice for a while, but for the first time I am tempted to agree that someone has delivered a solution which showcases that a larger context window can in many cases work reliably and far more seemlessly. Is also the first time a Google model actually surprised me (positively), neither Bard, nor AI answers or any previous Gemini model had any appeal to me, even when testing specificially for what other claimed to be strenghts (such as Gemini 1.5s alleged Flutter expertise which got beaten by both OpenAI and Anthropics equivalent at the time).
2y ago

Alifatisk 2y ago

Exciting news to see these models being released to the Gemini app, I would wish my preferences on which model I want to default to got saved for further sessions. How many tokens can gemini.google.com handle as input? How large is the context window before it forgets? A quick search said it's 128k token window but that applies to Gemini 1.5 Pro, how is it now then? My assumption is that "Gemini 2.0 Flash Thinking Experimental is just" "Gemini 2.0 Flash" with reasoning and "Gemini 2.0 Flash Thinking Experimental with apps" is just "Gemini 2.0 Flash Thinking Experimental" with access to the web and Googles other services, right? So sticking to "Gemini 2.0 Flash Thinking Experimental with apps" should be the optimal choice. Is there any reason why Gemini 1.5 Flash is still an option? Feels like it should be removed as an option unless it does something better than the other. I have difficulties understanding where each variant of the Gemini model is suited the most. Looking at aistudio.google.com, they have already update the available models. Is "Gemini 2.0 Flash Thinking Experimental" on gemini.google.com just "Gemini experiment 1206" or was it "Gemini Flash Thinking Experimental" aistudio.google.com? I have a note on my notes app where I rank every llm based on instructions following and math, to this day, I've had difficulties knowing where to place every Gemini model. I know there is a little popup when you hover over each model that tries to explain what each model does and which tasks it is best suited for, but these explanations have been very vague to me. And I haven't even started on the Gemini Advanced series or whatever I should call it. The available models on aistudio is now: - Gemini 2.0 Flash (gemini-2.0-flash) - Gemini 2.0 Flash Lite Preview (gemini-2.0-flash-lite-preview-02-05) - Gemini 2.0 Pro Experimental (gemini-2.0-pro-exp-02-05) - Gemini 2.0 Flash Thinking Experimental (gemini-2.0-flash-thinking-exp-01-21) If I had to sort these from most likely to fulfill my need to least likely, then it would probably be: gemini-2.0-flash-thinking-exp-01-21 > gemini-2.0-pro-exp-02-05 > gemini-2.0-flash-lite-preview-02-05 > gemini-2.0-flash Why? Because aistudio describes gemini-2.0-flash-thinking-exp-01-21 as being able to tackle most complex and difficult tasks while gemini-2.0-pro-exp-02-05 and gemini-2.0-flash-lite-preview-02-05 only differs with how much context they can handle. So with that out of the way, how does Gemini-2.0-flash-thinking-exp-01-21 compare against o3-mini, Qwen 2.5 Max, Kimi k1.5, DeepSeek R1, DeepSeek V3 and Sonnet 3.5? My current list of benchmarks I go through is artificialanalysis.ai, lmarena.ai, livebench.ai and aider.chat:s polygot benchmark but still, the whole Gemini suite is difficult to reason and sort out. I feel like this trend of having many different models with the same name but different suffix starts be an obstacle to my mental model.

simonw 2y ago

I upgraded my llm-gemini plugin to handle this, and shared the results of my "Generate an SVG of a pelican riding a bicycle" benchmark here: https://simonwillison.net/2025/Feb/5/gemini-2/ https://simonwillison.net/2025/Feb/5/gemini-2/ The pricing is interesting: Gemini 2.0 Flash-Lite is 7.5c/million input tokens and 30c/million output tokens - half the price of OpenAI's GPT-4o mini (15c/60c). Gemini 2.0 Flash isn't much more: 10c/million for text/image input, 70c/million for audio input, 40c/million for output. Again, cheaper than GPT-4o mini.

zamadatix 2y ago
Is there a way to see/compare the shared results for all of the LLMs you've tested this prompt on in one place? The 2.0 pro result seems decent but I don't have a baseline if that's because it is or if the other 2 are just "extremely bad" or something.
- nolist_policy 2y ago
  Search by tag: https://simonwillison.net/tags/pelican-riding-a-bicycle/ https://simonwillison.net/tags/pelican-riding-a-bicycle/
iimaginary 2y ago
The only benchmark worth paying attention to.
qingcharles 2y ago
Not a bad pelican from 2.0 Pro! The singularity is almost upon us :)
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
mattlondon 2y ago
The SVGs are starting to look actually recognisable! You'll need a new benchmark soon :)

serjester 2y ago

For anyone that parsing PDF's this is a game changer in term of price per dollar - I wrote a blog about it [1]. I think a lot of people were nervous about pricing since they released the beta, and although it's slightly more expensive than 1.5 Flash, this is still incredibly cost-effective. Looking forward to also benchmarking the lite version. [1] https://www.sergey.fyi/articles/gemini-flash-2 https://www.sergey.fyi/articles/gemini-flash-2

mmanfrin 2y ago

It sure is cool that people who joined Google's pixel pass continue to be unable to give them money to access Advanced.

staticman2 2y ago

I have a fun query in AI studio where I pasted a 800,000 token Wuxia martial arts novel and ask it worldbuilding questions. 1.5 pro and the old 2.0 flash experimental generated responses in AI studio but the new 2.0 models respond with blank answers. I wonder if it's timing out or some sort of newer censorship models is preventing 2.0 from answering my query. The novel is pg-13 at most but references to "bronze skinned southern barbarians" "courtesans" "drugs" "demonic sects" and murder could I guess set it off.

champdebloom 2y ago
I can’t say I ever expected to see this here, but thank you for making my day! I might try this as a filler remover for the novels I find drag on and on.

barrenko 2y ago

If you're Google and you're reading, please offer finetuning on multi-part dialogue.

crowcroft 2y ago

Worth noting that with 2.0 they're now offering free search tool use for 1,500 queries per day. Their search costs 7x Perplexity Sonar's but imagine a lot of people will start with Google given they can get a pretty decent amount of search for free now.

mistrial9 2y ago

Why does no one mention that you must login with a Google account, with all of the record keeping, cross correlations and 3rd party access implied there..

m_ppp 2y ago

I'm interested to know how well video processing works here. Ran into some problems when I was using vertex to serve longer youtube videos.

bionhoward 2y ago

I always get to, “You may not use the Services to develop models that compete with the Services (e.g., Gemini API or Google AI Studio).” [1] and exit - [1] https://ai.google.dev/gemini-api/terms https://ai.google.dev/gemini-api/terms

torginus 2y ago
I wonder what are the legal implications of breaking the ToS - besides termination of your account?
BoorishBears 2y ago
I just ignore that. If I'm ever large enough to be worth suing, I'll be very happy.
- danskeren 2y ago
  They don't need to sue, they'll just ban your account with no warning or explanation the moment you get on their radar.. at least that's what they did to me.
  - BoorishBears 2y ago
    That's a pretty extraordinary claim that you should expand on. How did they know you were using Gemini to train another model?

foresto 2y ago

Not to be confused with Project Gemini. https://geminiprotocol.net/ https://geminiprotocol.net/

user3939382 2y ago

I wonder how common this is, but my interest in this product is 0 simply because my level of trust and feeling of goodwill for Google almost couldn’t be lower.

sylware 2y ago

This is a lie since I don't have a google account, and cannot search on google anymore since noscript/basic (x)html browsers interop was broken a few weeks ago.

tmaly 2y ago

I am on the iOS app and I see Gemini 2.0 and Gemini 1.5 as options in the drop down. I am on free tier

dtquad 2y ago
Try the Gemini webapp. It has a powerful reasoning model with Google Search and Maps integration.

CSMastermind 2y ago

Is it still the case that it doesn't really support video input? As in I have a video file I want to send it to the model and get a response about it. Not their 'live stream' or whatever functionality.

TacticalCoder 2y ago

[dead]

ryao 2y ago

Google should release the weights under a MIT license like Deepseek.

WiSaGaN 2y ago
They won't after OpenAI used transformer and refused to give back.
- ryao 2y ago
  How is that relevant?

johan147 2y ago

[dead]

starchild3001 2y ago

I use all top of the line models everyday. Not for coding, but for general "cognitive" tasks like research, thinking, analysis, writing etc. What Google calls Gemini Pro 2.0 has been my most favorite model for the past couple of months. I think o1/4o come pretty close. Those are kinda equals, with a slight preference for Gemini. Claude has fallen behind, clearly. DeepSeek is intriguing. It excels occassionally where others won't. For consistency's sake, Gemini Pro 2.0 is amazing. I highly recommend using it via https://aistudio.google.com/ https://aistudio.google.com/. Gemini app has some additional bells and whistles, but for some reason quality isn't always on par with aistudio. Also Gemini app seems to have more filters -- it seems more shy answering controversial topics. Just some general impressions.

tnias23 2y ago
do you mean "Gemini 2.0 Pro Experimental 02-05"? too many similarly named models
- starchild3001 2y ago
  Yes.
  - novok 2y ago
    How do you get around all the censorship? Gemini is even worse than Claude at times. And it's for things like "Obama's chili recipe" or "find the source of X person's science paper where they talked about Y in another language".
    - starchild3001 2y ago
      Not a major problem in my experience if you use the aistudio version of the model. Claude tends to be the most conservative in my experience. Gemini 2.0 and 4o appear similar.

lyzml_AF 2y ago

[dead]

darthapple76 2y ago

is this AGI yet?

DimuP 2y ago

Finally, it's here!

EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK 2y ago

I am dreaming about an aggregator site where one can select any model - openai, gemini, claude, llama, qwen... and pay API rate + some profit margin for any query. Without having to register with each AI provider, and without sharing my PII with them.

artdigital 2y ago
That’s openrouter.ai
- EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK 2y ago
  Thanks, registering right now.
  - EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK 2y ago
    This one is good, and it even accepts Bitcoins for top-ups. But o3-mini is not available without an api key, so still need an openai subscription ...
    - RohMin 2y ago
      This is a policy enforced by OpenAI, not OpenRouter

andrewstuart 2y ago

I’ve tried Gemini many times and never found it to be useful at all compared to OpenAI and Claude.

bwb 2y ago

I am blown away by how bad this is compared to the competition. What is Google doing? I asked it to give me something simple like 6 results, and it gives me 3, not to mention bad data hallucinations that ChatGPT and others are working fine with.

eamag 2y ago

where can I try coding with it? Is it available in cursor/copilot?

adammarples 2y ago

how many "r"'s in strrawberry stumped it

dontseethefnord 2y ago

Does it still say that water isn’t frozen at 0 degrees Fahrenheit?