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DoppelBot: Replace Your CEO with an LLM
- tombert 2y agoMy dad had a manager recently that he started calling "VPGPT" behind his back. He felt like the guy primarily spoke in truisms and with long-winded statements that ultimately said very little but gave the illusion of having depth. He wasn't a huge fan.
- Aurornis 2y agoI had one of those. I thought he was fooling upper management until I started working directly with the CTO, who was very open about the fact that this VP was more about performance than execution. He explained that the guy’s overwhelming desire to look good and be viewed as a thought leader also made him very receptive to incentives. You could give him a task, tell him it was important for his career, and he’d get it done because he was so afraid of looking bad. If it was something he could write about on LinkedIn or his personal newsletter, even better. The challenge was setting the incentives correctly so he couldn’t game them. He was tasked with hiring a team to accomplish some specific goal once and the first set of people he tried to hire were not qualified at all, they were just the first people he could get to interview and want to join. You had to watch him like a hawk to make sure he wasn’t running yet another performative game. The other weird part is that a lot of candidates were really impressed by him. He dressed well and had hair that obviously took a long time to do every morning and he spoke with confidence. This was remarkably effective at convincing many candidates that he knew what he was doing and could run a tight ship. Lot of disappointed people trying to leave his team after the first 6 months.
- mjburgess 2y agoThey tie up heavy, cumbersome loads and put them on other people's shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to lift a finger to move them. Everything they do is done for people to see: They make their desks wide and the ties on their garments long; they love the place of honor at corporate retreats and the most important seats in the interviews; they love to be greeted with respect in the meeting rooms and to be called a Leader by others. ...the more things change, the more they stay the same...
- tombert 2y ago“Meet the new boss, same as the old boss”
- jondwillis 2y ago1971 was such a good year for music (see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1971_in_music https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1971_in_music and Apple TV+ came out with https://www.apple.com/tv-pr/originals/1971-the-year-that-music-changed-everything/episodes-images/ https://www.apple.com/tv-pr/originals/1971-the-year-that-mus... a few years ago)
- jean__meslier 2y agoMatthew 23:4, nice.
- empath75 2y agoIt used to be the case that speaking in that register was a strong signal of a social pedigree and an expensive education. Now it's a signal of people being brainless and easily replaceable. You're also seeing it in politics where politicians that don't think before they speak too much are seen as more authentic and competent than ones that hire teams of consultants to carefully massage every statement they make.
- babyshake 2y agoThis effect will probably be more pronounced in coming years. Being able to speak and act in ways that are obviously not AI.
- empath75 2y agoThe thing is that AIs are also good at mimicking informal/off-the-cuff speech, too. And people are lazy, so they'll fall back on "casual" cliches, which AIs (and consultant-driven politicians) will be just as good at mimicking. It's going to be the rare person who can stay ahead of that. It'll be an endless treadmill.
- thundergolfer 2y ago> It used to be the case that speaking in that register was a strong signal of a social pedigree and an expensive education. It's not the same register. There's a vast difference between the extemporaneous speech of the old school patricians and today's C-suite corp-speak. Here's Robert F Kennedy Jr. speaking off the cuff at a public event moments after hearing that MLK had been assassinated: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A2kWIa8wSC0&t=238s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A2kWIa8wSC0&t=238s. That's the speaking style of social pedigree and an expensive education. You'll tend to find it contains lifts of poetry, like Kennedy's evocation of Aeschylus, and little reference to 'synergy', 'collaboration', 'efficiency', etc.
- ryandrake 2y agoMaybe our standards are rock bottom now, but that speech did not seem to me to be "off the cuff." It seemed rehearsed, polished, edited and wordsmithed, like any other prepared speech by a politician. If he was truly winging it, then wow, what a talent!
- bufferoverflow 2y ago> the guy primarily spoke in truisms and with long-winded statements that ultimately said very little but gave the illusion of having depth. The term for that is deepety. https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Deepity https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Deepity
- siva7 2y agoI'm saddened to tell you fellow hackers here that the real world will be more like: "Replace your knowledge worker with an LLM" ordered by your CEO.
- tbrake 2y agoI feel most bad for the other frogs in roles whose pots haven't even been put on the AI stovetop yet. I have general feeling they feel they're safe. Looking at you specifically, Project/Program managers with little output other than attending meetings and asking for status updates and futzing with JIRA to get reports. The dev frogs might not even be finished boiling before you notice your steam.
- hibikir 2y agoThis makes perfect sense when you consider who is making the decisions. If you are trying to, say, replace an ad-buying team with an AI that supposedly does the job better, your goal has to be to sell it at a high enough level that the political pressure of having the old department employed doesn't tank everything regardless of results. One can try to sell to a CEO than an IT department is a cost center, and they can bring in the same results for less. But to replace a CEO you need to sell to the board, and the board is typically full of CEOs. Even a far superior CEO that costs $1 a day is a hard sell when the CEO is your buddy, and you aren't going to be making a mint as a board member for getting rid of said buddy.
- woah 2y agoIf far superior AI CEOs existed then only one board would need to replace their CEO with AI. The company would then dominate the marketplace because of the far superior decisions being made, and the rest would be forced to follow. If AI CEOs were slightly inferior to human CEOs, but cost $1 per year, it still wouldn't be worth replacing an expensive human CEO, unless that CEO's compensation was worth more than a few percent of revenue (it never is). I wouldn't want to invest my money in a company which was making worse decisions to try to save money on the CEO, when the money paid to the CEO is going to have very little effect on my return on investment. That sounds like a good way to for my investment to underperform. The only winner in that scenario is online forum posters who want to feel jealous of the abstract concept of a "CEO".
- coreyh14444 2y agoI'm mostly curious about the decision to do fine-tuning here instead of synthesizing a good system message, maybe a RAG setup with access to the slack database, etc. I tried fine-tuning on a content generation case when GPT 4 first came out and we had much better results without it. Also, you don't get the benefit of upgrading to new models when they are released.
- empath75 2y agoI think you're putting way too much thought into what is basically a comedy bit.
- charles_irl 2y agoI worked on this project a bit! These are great questions. Fine-tuning works very well for style (as opposed to factual knowledge), which is all we're trying to achieve here -- as another commenter put it, it's a "comedy bit" for a company Slack. In fact, fine-tuning for style works well enough that we find it pretty easy to just re-train when new models come out. There's sometimes some YAML-fiddling required to get training frameworks to work with different model series (e.g. a DeepSeek series model vs a LLaMA series model), but it's not too onerous. IMO, the ideal ML pipeline looks less like the bespoke process common these days and more like a materialized view (shouts to pgML). That's easy to automate and so reduces the gap with prompting. On the other hand, it seemed harder to craft a generic system prompt and a generic retrieval system that would work across organizations to define user communication style.
- coreyh14444 2y agoThanks for the reply! Makes sense. I will definitely keep this in mind. Much appreciated.
- bawana 2y agoimagine the share price jump when the first corp announces this!
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- lenerdenator 2y agoIt's fun to think about, but if you want to really reign in the C-suite, you need to start setting up systems within companies that allow for the rank-and-file to replace bad CEOs. We've spent the last 80 years (ostensibly) talking about how great representative government is, then we let people own a majority of voting shares so that they can run companies like dictatorships. I've worked at a company that could have remained more competitive (and done a better job of maintaining software that is critical to human life) if there had been more uptake of ideas from workers instead of simply trying to make shareholders happy.
- blackeyeblitzar 2y ago> We've spent the last 80 years (ostensibly) talking about how great representative government is, then we let people own a majority of voting shares so that they can run companies like dictatorships. I think it’s basically admitting that the right dictator, if they are there based on merit, can really perform better than someone who wins by their skill at campaigning. Forget voting shares - even when a single person doesn’t have that amount of control, you have a small board elected by shareholders who is essentially electing a dictator. Personally I think most companies would do far worse if rank and file employees selected the CEO. But I haven’t thought much about it. Curious what ideas HN has on this aspect.
- lenerdenator 2y agoI don't see it much of an admission of anything, personally. The admission would have had to come as an answer to a question that was never asked. To me, it's more of a way to keep the ruling class in place. It used to be done through government, now it's done through corporations. And honestly, the corporation is a far more attractive model if you're in that racket. Rioters don't burn down corporate HQs, they burn down police stations. Public sector pay sucks. The corruption would be far too obvious... well, it would have been until relatively recently.
- benxh 2y agoTo prove you right, you can read up on the incredible giga-brained countrywide experiments by Kardelj in Socialist Yugoslavia [0]. The result being a country where no-one wanted to work, and everyone had a great standard of living (while the IMF didn't call in its loans). And then the entire country collapsed all at once under the accumulated mismanagement. [0] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Workers%27_self-management#Yugoslavia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Workers%27_self-management#Yug...
- alexvitkov 2y agoUnfortunately our CEO at a 5000 person company that heavily uses Slack, still hasn't activated their Slack account, so I don't have much to finetune the bot on.
- xyzzy_plugh 2y agoI have gained respect for your CEO. Good for them.
- bigfishrunning 2y agoYup, no reason to sully yourself communicating with the rabble
- throwaway314155 2y agoIt would be one thing if their employees didn't have to use it...
- kerblang 2y agoYet again HN gets weird with highly contradictory popular posts trending simultaneously https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42923870 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42923870 "A computer can never be held accountable"
- kibwen 2y agoI'm unclear what the contradiction is? When was the last time a CEO was held accountable, for any value of "accountable" that doesn't involve repeatedly taking golden parachutes and failing upward?
- dvngnt_ 2y agousa could do better but they get sentenced regularly https://search.brave.com/search?q=ceo+convicted+site%3Ajustice.gov&source=web https://search.brave.com/search?q=ceo+convicted+site%3Ajusti...
- wy35 2y agoI mean, this is clearly an unserious post. This is more of a fun tech demo than anything.
- e12e 2y agoRidiculous. No CEO worth replacing is on slack - this needs to be trained on, and run on teams.
- extr 2y agoThe OP is clearly just a fun tech demo to show off their platform, they're not seriously advocating to replace CEOs with LLMs.
- fellowniusmonk 2y agoIn my past I was the technical co-founder for a successful startup and eventual exit. I had a background in marketing automation and analytics. At different points I acted as CTO, CEO and COO and ended up at a CTO but with a cutout that I ran the "renevue" team. Except for glad handing VCs in the early stages the first thing that should be automated away is most roles in the C-Suite. You'll still need a flesh and blood figurehead for external meetings as well. Many software engineers seem to be extremely blind to practical concerns around positioning, market fit, pricing, etc. and may bring certain idealogical biases and "purities" into their decision making that sabotage their success, just put yourself in the hands of AI and trust it. The simple fact is most C-suite teams don't perform better than the macro environment they exist in, so getting "decent" AI decisions in place and then energetically executing you'll beat most teams, and in early stage startups. If some people say we can replace the bottom 20% of devs right now, we can probably safely replace the bottom 40% of c-suite roles.
- bastardoperator 2y agoAre they blind or do others get paid to do these jobs? I've seen it too many times, no good deed goes unpunished.
- codr7 2y agoRight, except who's going to be held accountable?
- jb1991 2y agoOr your government. See the TV show Travelers for an example.
- StarterPro 2y agoUnrelated, but I wonder if there is a test to see how many of the commenters are bots vs actual humans
- Franzi4 2y agoCould we use it to replace our CTO when the sales team asks feasibility questions ?
- newsclues 2y agoRather than CEOs, why not mid level managers?
- UncleEntity 2y agoI think they're burying the lede here, they released a DoppleBot you can train on Linus's messages from the lkml as the ultimate arbitrator of coding disputes.
- machomaster 2y agoSurely, it simply accuses everyone (including old and well-known contributors) of being a Russian bot and, as an explanation for this wild accusation, merely states that he is a Finn and knows history?
- johnea 2y agoMaybe some good will come from this tech afterall...
- gmerc 2y agoPlease https://ai-ceo.org https://ai-ceo.org is the only real deal in that field.
- nico 2y ago> All the components—scraping, fine-tuning, inference and slack event handlers run on Modal, and the code itself is open-source and available here. Does anyone know how much it would cost to put this together? How much does it cost to fine tune Lama 3.1 on someone's Slack messages? I'm guessing it depends on the number of messages, but roughly for 10k-100k messages, at 200 characters each (guessing about 50 tokens each, so 500k-5M tokens)?
- satisfice 2y agoSo, all this effort to enact a joke about the emptiness of bad leadership? We are in the golden age of pointless AI!