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Elon is also now claiming to have "deleted" 18F (https://18f.gsa.gov/ https://18f.gsa.gov/): https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1886498750052327520 https://x.com/elo
by ian_d 2y ago
Elon is also now claiming to have "deleted" 18F (https://18f.gsa.gov/ https://18f.gsa.gov/): https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1886498750052327520 https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1886498750052327520
- __loam 2y ago[flagged]
- paulgb 2y agoThis is nuts, 18F was one of the few groups in the federal government that is/was good at making software! (login.gov is a good example of craft you don't generally see in commercial enterprise software, let alone government software) According to that tweet they were apparently “far left” because they also worked on Direct File, which sought to cut out the middleman (TurboTax et al.) and let Americans file taxes directly. Regardless of where you stand on the political spectrum, unless you're in bed with Intuit, this seems pretty hard to argue against!
- jf 2y agologin.gov is amazing software. Highly tested. Expertly implemented. It might be the most tested IdP available today.
- jeffrallen 2y agoThen why did it send me to id.me to send my photo ID to some low cost outsourcer?
- ceejayoz 2y agoBecause someone lobbied their bosses.
- emchammer 2y agoI would rather show up at the local post office in order to verify my identity. Such a matter common in another country where I have lived.
- eadler 2y agoThis is starting to happen. I had to do this for NIH recently. Or it would be happening absent the recent chaos.
- threeseed 2y agoI can't imagine many people agreeing with you here. You need to be (a) able to walk and drive, (b) in driving distance to a post office and (c) able to work around the post office's opening hours and (d) willing to waste the time to drive/line up etc. Or you can spend less than a minute to upload a photo of your passport.
- jf 2y agoThis is exactly right. The capability to do identity proofing via the USPS is in the code and available on GitHub for you to browse.
- threeseed 2y agoid.me is valued at $1.8bn and has more than 130m users and has "partnerships with 15 federal agencies, 40 agencies in 30 states and over 600 retailers". Bit of a stretch to call them a low cost outsourcer. They seem pretty legitimate.
- toomuchtodo 2y agoThey are a private business in search of a problem that is unnecessary for federal and state agencies to rely on for idp and identity proofing services.
- threeseed 2y agoPretty hilarious to think that a $1.8bn business is "searching for a problem". And given the frosty working relationship between federal and state agencies I am sympathetic to the idea that a private company would be able to deliver a better solution.
- toomuchtodo 2y agoLogin.gov is the default idp for the Social Security Administration, supports 200+ federal agencies for identity, and IRS was in the works to onboard Login.gov before this new admin fuckery occurred. They handle over 10 million monthly active users and 40 million monthly sign-ins across nearly 50 agencies and states. Will it still happen? Who knows. id.me will likely IPO based off the ~$130-$150M ARR they have, some folks will get wealthy, and it'll still end up the equivalent of confirming your discount eligibility at Home Depot for veterans.
- gorgoiler 2y agoThere’s a bigger story to tell than just a number. Is that $1.8B of revenue? Of profit? $1.8B of total funding in the last six months? In the last ten years? Here’s $100M of funding for a 6% stake, four years ago: https://siliconangle.com/2021/03/22/digital-identity-network-startup-id-raises-100m-unicorn-valuation-1-5b/ https://siliconangle.com/2021/03/22/digital-identity-network... Last year: a liquidity event for early investors and employees, none of which helps the ongoing business but instead lets the founders and C-suite buy a private island / holiday home / mobile home / home: https://thepaypers.com/digital-identity-security-online-fraud/idmes-valuation-increases-to-usd-18-billion-after-tender-offer--1271155 https://thepaypers.com/digital-identity-security-online-frau... A $275M loan — not an investment, though you get a good deal if they default! — to keep them afloat?: https://www.investing.com/news/stock-market-news/idme-secures-275-million-credit-facility-from-ares-management-funds-93CH-3840926 https://www.investing.com/news/stock-market-news/idme-secure... The only rung deeper into the hype pit would be valuing them as a unicorn based on a too-big-to-fail government bailout.
- freitasm 2y ago> this seems pretty hard to argue against! Removing consumer protection would be something hard to argue against too, but yet, here we are: https://news.bloomberglaw.com/banking-law/bessent-pauses-cfpb-litigation-new-rules-as-he-takes-the-reins https://news.bloomberglaw.com/banking-law/bessent-pauses-cfp... "Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent has shut down a wide variety of operations inside the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau in his new role as acting director." Nothing of this makes sense in that all these actions don't seem to make life easier or better for citizens in particular or the world in general.
- Sharlin 2y agoEverything about it makes perfect sense because pesky things like consumer protection and occupational safety cut into the profits of the owning class.
- justin66 2y ago> This is nuts, 18F was one of the few groups in the federal government that is/was good at making software! Hopefully it's obvious at this point: Musk and friends not there to do anything but enrich themselves, and destroy.
- scarab92 2y agoMusk usually elevates technical and capable people, and gives them more power, not less. I suspect 18F would have been adopted by USDS, if it had been less overtly partisan in its hiring practices.
- georgeburdell 2y agoCare to provide an example? I was casually looking at applying, but I am on the conservative side as easily searchable on Google by voter registrations
- amitrip 2y ago[dead]
- ljm 2y agoThe only person Musk ‘elevates’ is himself. People with that kind of wealth have transcended humanity. Not towards greatness but towards total indifference.
- chinathrow 2y agoAt this point, Elon is doing only damage while he thinks he cleans up. Someone will have to cleanup after the cleanup aka damage doen though, and it won't be pretty.
- maeil 2y ago>while he thinks he cleans up He doesn't.
- intended 2y agoDon’t do clean up. The biggest mistake the dems can make is to come in and do clean up. This would be paying the bills of the abusive member in a relationship.
- ArnoVW 2y agoPeople depend on the state. Someone has to be the adult in the room. If your marriage fails what do you do with the kids? You abandon them because you don’t want to clean up?
- throwaheyy 2y agoDems were already the adult in the room, US voters decided they don’t want one.
- xp84 2y agoNope, they were in control, spent 4 years focusing most of their attention on things the voting public found various degrees of stupid, then put up two successive candidates in ‘24 that were absolute jokes. The voters decided that the Democrats weren’t serious and sent them a message: “Even this obviously-corrupt buffoon is better than the arrogant elitist that you put up. Do better or be prepared for irrelevance.” Personally I’m no fan of 90% of the GOP agenda, but my fondest wish is complete dissolution of the DNC, and another party taking over as the party of the non-rich to restore some balance.
- ianburrell 2y agoMy brother works for 18F. 18F might also be "far-left" cause it was created by Obama folks. I also wonder if it is also bad in his mind cause conflicts with taken over Digital Service.
- Trasmatta 2y ago>far-left >Obama folks Obama was not in any way "far left"
- ianburrell 2y agoI added air quotes to make irony obvious.
- zekrioca 2y agoPeople these days use /s for that, not quotes..
- emptyfile 2y agoYou should understand what putting a word in quotes means, regardless of internet memes.
- zekrioca 2y agoAccording to Wikipedia [1], and I quote: "A quotation or quote is the repetition of a sentence, phrase, or passage from speech or text that someone has said or written." [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quotation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quotation
- tijtij 2y agoBy quoting "far-left" the poster is indicating that he himself does not believe that Obama is far left but that it is something someone has said or written about Obama. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scare_quotes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scare_quotes
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- 0xcde4c3db 2y agoBeing in bed with tax preparation companies is probably the main thing, but I also vaguely recall a statement by someone years ago (perhaps Grover Norquist or Dick Armey) that filing tax returns should be kept annoying simply for the sake of keeping people angry about taxes in general.
- DangitBobby 2y agoThat works until people learn the correct targets to direct their anger.
- pbhjpbhj 2y agoBecause paying to build society and help those around you to a better life through shared resources is something you should be angry about? It's not taxes that are the problem per se it's fuckwits like Boris Johnson's cronies that think taxes are theirs to garnish and use any chance, even a global pandemic, to steal every dime they can lay their hands on.
- coldtea 2y ago>Because paying to build society and help those around you to a better life through shared resources is something you should be angry about? No, but paying an exorbitant amount, but seeing few things being improved around you, but endless wars funded and cronies getting richer, and useless bureucracy enlarged and making your life or business more difficult, is.
- robocat 2y ago> filing tax returns should be kept annoying That's just plain stupid. Taxes are already annoying enough. In New Zealand the government makes it really really simple to pay your taxes (automated tax returns for the majority). You can call our tax department on the phone and they answer and they are helpful and they don't seem to screw you. The idea is to make it simple for people and businesses to pay their taxes so that they pay. The IRD is run like a smart business.
- 2y ago
- __MatrixMan__ 2y agoReplacing the government with unaccountable middlemen is sort of their goal, isn't it? Think of the efficiency we could gain once we do away with all of that accountability nonsense...
- watwut 2y agoIf you goal is to make government small, ineffective at consumer protection and such, this is absolutely the first group to target.
- hondo77 2y agoThe so-called Department of Government Efficiency has deleted a group that was devoted solely to making the government more efficient. Makes perfect sense, in Trumpistan logic.
- baobabKoodaa 2y ago[flagged]
- hondo77 2y agoBy your logic, having one small group would be most efficient. Which makes perfect sense, given the tiny size of the US government, in Trumpistan logic.
- baobabKoodaa 2y agoI didn't make any claims about what is the most efficient number of groups working towards efficiency. I also didn't make any claims which groups should exist, solely based on the name of the group. You're the one who made an argument along those lines. Not me. As if, a group named for efficiency couldn't possibly be inefficient. Or, that 2 groups working for efficiency would somehow be automatically better than 1 group.
- Cornbilly 2y agoGiven his tech record, he probably dragged a file named 18F to the Recycle Bin. This is the same guy that nearly tanked PayPal because he was obsessed with rewriting their entire system for Windows.
- hinkley 2y agoI had a coworker who turned beet red when I put Musk and PayPal in the same sentence. You know that feeling when your parents didn’t yell and you wished they would? I was too afraid to ask for the full story. His PR makes him sound like a founder but he was not.
- pinkmuffinere 2y ago“X.com was … founded by Ed Ho, Harris Fricker, Elon Musk, and Christopher Payne … It merged with competitor Confinity in 2000 and the merged company changed its name to PayPal in 2001.”[1] I’m sure individual usage will vary, but I would call him a cofounder. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X.com_(bank) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X.com_(bank)
- buffington 2y ago> This article is about the defunct online bank. Assuming you meant X.com (formerly known as Twitter) - in no universe is there a Twitter cofounded by Musk.
- dangrossman 2y ago
- jacobjjacob 2y agoLooking at the quoted post, what do they have against Direct File? It is really hard to keep track of their positions which I believe is intentional.
- neuronexmachina 2y agoMany in the GOP are generally opposed to federally-funded free tax return filing: https://pennsylvaniaindependent.com/politics/irs-direct-file-republicans-free-income-tax-filing-mike-kelly-abolish-donald-trump-campaign-finance/ https://pennsylvaniaindependent.com/politics/irs-direct-file... > In December, however, Kelly and 28 House Republican colleagues wrote to President-elect Donald Trump to ask him to end the program: “We write to urge you to take immediate action, including but not limited to a day-one executive order, to end the Internal Revenue Service’s (IRS) unauthorized and wasteful Direct File pilot program. The program’s creation and ongoing expansion pose a threat to taxpayers’ freedom from government overreach, and its rollout and structural flaws have already come at a steep price.”
- rounce 2y agoAll the dramatic language they use to dress up their claims is completely ridiculous.
- shigawire 2y agoThe argument (if you take it in the most charitable light) is that reducing barriers to paying taxes will make people less averse to paying taxes. So they fight any effort to bring sanity to the tax code or tax payment process. So even taken charitably I think they are wrong. But I do believe it is simply just corrupt and malicious.
- hnbad 2y agoYou'd think the threat of having your bank accounts frozen and armed law enforcement officers showing up at your door were the most significant factors in making people "less averse" to paying taxes. I doubt reducing the barriers to filing your taxes correctly makes anyone happier about having to pay taxes either.
- Blackcatmaxy 2y agorelated thread https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42922543#42922953 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42922543#42922953
- ThePowerOfFuet 2y agoCorrected link: https://xcancel.com/elonmusk/status/1886498750052327520 https://xcancel.com/elonmusk/status/1886498750052327520
- pityJuke 2y agoHe got rid of 18F, a group within the Govt to improve usage of tech (and hopefully therefore efficiency), because of a tweet. A tweet about IRS Direct File, a group that replicates the basic automatic taxation program of other advanced economies? Over a fear that the Government would take over deciding what taxes people pay, despite a fact that such a program doesn’t necessarily block you from manually filing your own taxes (don’t know if the American implementation has that, but the UK one certainly allows you to override PAYE). Yes HN commenters, this is the genius behind Government reform. EDIT: Jesus Christ someone is going to convince him FedNow is a conspiracy and kill another basic system other countries have easily managed.
- tsunamifury 2y agoHe clearly wants to replace the US government technology platforms with X/XPay/etc
- kelseyfrog 2y agoYes - This is an underrated point. The circle of Elon, Thiel, Andersson, etc conceptually orbit Balaji. Balaji, The Network State author, explicitly advocates for a techno-libertarian exit because they perceive the US and especially "team blue" as getting in the way and slowing down their vision.
- coldtrait 2y agoI still don't understand what Balaji wants to achieve with his crypto oriented nonsense. Could not make any sense of it.
- Hikikomori 2y agoHis ideas builds on Curtis Jarvis work, dark enlightenment. He is a close associate of Peter Thiel and JD Vance. Essentially they want to destroy the federal government, buy up assets and land, start their own micro countries where they can be King CEOs. Sounds like a joke but its not.
- kelseyfrog 2y agoIt's important to point out, and this not an understatement, that they believe that democracy is a failed project. Democracy in their eyes is either a failed experiment or obsolete. They share a belief that "change from within"[democracy] is impossible and that "exiting" is the only other option. This extends to governance models where people are encouraged to vote for their governance by packing up and moving (digitally and/or physically) rather than attempting change from within.
- coldtrait 2y agoCurtis Yarvin? None of the things these people say sound interesting in the least. Or maybe I'm just too dumb to get it.
- mychael 2y ago[flagged]
- araes 2y agoThanks for the link on 18F in the feds. Didn't realize how much they had put up on Github and other areas [1]. analytics.usa.gov [2] is also pretty cool. Apparently its Jekyll, Sass, React and d3 from their Github. 343,025 first time users in the last 30 minutes, with GSA Advantage, USPS Tracking Results, NIST, CEAC Visa Status Check, and Federal Student Aid being some of the biggest sources. Had no idea this was available. [1] https://github.com/18F https://github.com/18F [2] https://analytics.usa.gov/ https://analytics.usa.gov/