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Interesting article. My partner bought an Apple watch a couple of years ago and I was shocked at what a poor value proposition it was. Very expensive and wouldn

Interesting article. My partner bought an Apple watch a couple of years ago and I was shocked at what a poor value proposition it was. Very expensive and wouldn't even hold a charge for a day. I guess you get used to it but having to charge my watch every day would drive me mad. Obviously there are things it will do better than a Garmin (and things it can do that a Garmin simply can't) but overall it didn't make sense to me as a product (or, evidently, to my partner, who now leaves it gathering dust). I do think Garmin have found a really good balance for their devices in being smart but not "too smart". I have had a Vívoactive 3 for years that I am pretty happy with. Good battery life and does all the basic fitness stuff plus some actually useful extras like alerting me to phone notifications, etc. Also interesting is that the phone never just replaced standalone GPS fitness trackers. It's entirely possible to just use your phone to track your run, though obviously there are downsides, like you don't get heart rate tracking and it's a lot bulkier (though I think most people probably run with their phone anyway).

scarface_74 2y ago
With my Apple Watch, I don’t need my phone when I’m running, swimming or at the gym. I can receive and return texts, make and receive calls and listen to music either stored on the watch or streamed over cellular.
- iechoz6H 2y ago
  How do you receive calls without a sim? Or does it have a dedicated sim with a different number to your regular phone?
  - anderiv 2y ago
    Apple Watches have their own eSIM and they share a number with your phone.
  - scarface_74 2y ago
    The Apple Watch has had a cellular option since 2017 with a built in eSIM. There is a separate number as far as billing. But the cellular carrier pairs your cellular watch with an iPhone on the same network. So calls come in and go out as if they were coming from your iPhone’s number. Whenever someone calls your phone - they both ring. If your phone is on and close enough to your watch so they are connected via Bluetooth (or WiFi?), all data and voice communication is relayed through your phone to save battery life. If your watch isn’t connected to your phone, the Watch uses cellular. Roaming support for Apple Watches was just announced in 2022 and is still not ubiquitous
  - lotsofpulp 2y ago
    As far as I know, the watch’s eSIM technically has its own phone number, but the mobile provider does some backend stuff to make it look like it is using your iPhone’s phone number.
    - Kon-Peki 2y ago
      We got 3 cellular watches for our kids and set them up on one parent phone using the family connection thing. Each watch used only the phone number assigned to it, for both phone calls and messaging. Maybe they do things differently if you set it up in that way. As an only device for kids, it was about 80% there and over the course of a few years Apple made 0 progress, so we gave up on it as a concept. Only 1 kid still wears the watch; the other two are e-waste.
- dhosek 2y ago
  The swimming tracking seems magical to me. It counts laps and even identifies what stroke I’m doing (although I need to have a pause if I change strokes to let it accurately catch the change of stroke).
  - iamacyborg 2y ago
    Pretty much all fitness trackers can do this, even really cheap ones.
- nightski 2y ago
  That's funny, phone related features are the first things I turn off on my Garmin watch when I set it up. The last thing I want is my wrist buzzing off when I am focused lol. In fact, any notifications on my wrist are just flat out obnoxious. I'll take my multiple weeks of battery life for a single charge on the Forerunner 965. The data and analytics are fantastic as well.
  - scarface_74 2y ago
    There is a “Do not disturb” feature on the Apple Watch.
    - nluken 2y ago
      The point of that comment wasn't to suggest that you couldn't also silence notifications on an Apple Watch, it was to illustrate that the ability to receive these notifications isn't as relevant to Garmin's watches' target market as it is to the Apple Watch's.
  - wiether 2y ago
    Yeah, I think that's part of the reason both the Apple Watch and Garmin's can thrive: because they have their own market. I recently renewed my Garmin watch and I did the same: disable all the phone related features. And one of the Reddit comments quoted in the article says the same: > Apple Watch is a Smartwatch with fitness features, Garmin is a Fitness watch (with admittedly lacking) smartwatch features. People still buy Garmin watches instead of Apple Watch because they don't want the "smart" stuff, they want the fitness stuff first. And yeah, the battery life is also a big factor!
  - maples37 2y ago
    I'm pretty happy with the level of "smart" integration on my Garmin watch. For me, that's "shows me a preview of incoming SMS and Telegram messages" and the contact name when I receive a phone call. Plus the syncing of fitness activities. I do go back-and-forth on whether I want it to buzz or not, but that roughly overlaps between when I'm wearing the watch in the first place, so that has worked out well in my particular case. It fits well into my general philosophy of smartphone notifications, where real humans are allowed to buzz or make noise (phone calls / text messages) and everything else waits silently in the notification drawer until I choose to look at the phone.
- hedora 2y ago
  I wish I could just use the watch for everything and dump the phone. It does some ham fisted stuff to prevent this. For example, the watch Bluetooth stack detects that it is connected to a car stereo and refuses to work.
  - timenova 2y ago
    I play music in my car over bluetooth only from my watch. Works even without having the iPhone nearby. But yes, I agree with you. The Apple Watch can and should support almost all features the iPhone has. Three features I would like to see: hotspot, switching apps while on call, and Airplay music to soundbars.
    - scarface_74 2y ago
      Hotspot from the watch would kill the battery life.
  - figers 2y ago
    not being able to connect to car bluetooth is painful, why can't they just let that work already!
  - exhilaration 2y ago
    It's kind of a sloppy solution, but what about using a Bluetooth to aux adapter? You would lose the dashboard audio controls but at least you can listen to your stuff.
infecto 2y ago
People value things differently but the battery life is always interesting to me. Certainly if I was backwoods hiking I get it but for my day to day I only take it off post workout in the morning as I shower and get ready for the day. It’s charged so quickly that I throw it back on as soon as I am done.
- chikere232 2y ago
  It sounds like you have a good routine, but it's pretty nice to just have to charge once a week or something
  - vel0city 2y ago
    Yeah but we can always just shift that goalpost of a tradeoff and act like our arbitrary choice is the only right way. You need to charge that every week? Well this one lasts two weeks. Only two weeks, what a drag, this one lasts a month. You need to actually charge it? A Citizen Eco Drive charges itself even with only indoor light. Or an automatic watch that self winds on regular wrist movements, never really needing a "charge" so long as you're actively wearing it. It's all a trade off of what kind of features you want on your "watch". I'm not taking phone calls and doing NFC payments on an Eco Drive. People are going to value different things, to many charging a few minutes every day isn't an issue for what they seem to get from it.
    - chikere232 2y ago
      Of course, I just want the activity and sleep tracking, and the occasional alert or notification, so the tradeoff is easy. If I wanted whatever the apple watch can do beyond that I might make a different choice
  - dhosek 2y ago
    The ideal charging cycles are either daily or never. With some non-daily cycle, I need to add “does my watch need recharging?” to my cognitive load.
sylens 2y ago
The Apple Watch is also a terribly designed device for running. Too much of its functions rely on interacting with the touchscreen, something you are either unable to do with sweaty hands when running or don't want to do as it draws your attention away for a prolonged amount of time and hurts your form. Garmin's unwavering commitment to physical buttons and how you can customize what they do is what makes them the gold standard in this area for me.
- MarkusWandel 2y ago
  As a non-Appleista, what strikes me most is their "silo" mentality. Most of the iPhone /iWatch using fitness types I know log their stuff inside the Apple cloud, and do not crosspost to Garmin Connect or Strava so the non-Appleistas don't see their stuff. Whereas the Garmin/Strava world is relatively open. I can for example take the original Forerunner (pictured in the article) and upload stuff from it to the Garmin or Strava cloud, albeit slightly cumbersomely. I sometimes do with a later model, a Forerunner 305, even if it does take USB download to do it. Physical buttons, though... I've lost more than one bike ride because the start/stop button was bumped on the Forerunner and it turned out not to be recording.
  - sylens 2y ago
    That might have changed in recent years - I can import workouts to Strava that are recorded by my Apple Watch
    - MarkusWandel 2y ago
      With maps? The only Appleista that I know that crossposts to Strava always ends up with stats, but no map trace.
      - karlshea 2y ago
        Yes, with maps. The Apple Watch Strava app will record and upload directly or you can import workouts from Apple Health, both give you GPS, HR, etc. If recorded elsewhere it can depend, but that’s due to Strava being irritating/changing/dropping integration features in the last couple of years and not an Apple ecosystem issue. Or those people have maps uploaded but have chosen not to make them public?
jmull 2y ago
From my perspective -- someone who wants the things a smart watch does -- I can't figure out what a Garmin is for. They don't really do the job of a regular smart watch and aren't designed for wearing all the time, so it becomes a secondary device you need to manage and charge separately, not to mention pay for. Meanwhile, an Apple Watch can do all of it. IME, the battery life of Garmin's isn't a game changer... if you're using GPS (which for me would be all the time I'm using it), you're still charging regularly. Might as well charge every time you take it off. Not quite daily, but in the same ball park.
- jagermo 2y ago
  can you elaborate on " aren't designed for wearing all the time"? I wear my Epix 2 every day and it does all I want from a smartwatch - see incoming texts and calls while it tracks my health stats day and night. Yes, apple watch or Samsung ones may have more features, but I am not missing anything.
  - jmull 2y ago
    > can you elaborate on " aren't designed for wearing all the time"? Well, they look like sport watches. People can choose the aesthetic they want, but you're sending a message with one that's that opinionated, which I don't particularly want to.
    - eitally 2y ago
      Ummm... and Apple Watches are the epitome of high fashion? I don't think this is a strong argument when directly comparing these two things. Fwiw, I have met quite a few watch enthusiasts who wear a mechanical watch on one wrist and an Apple Watch on the other. This seems natural, honestly, since the primary function of an Apple Watch is definitely not to tell time.
    - do_not_redeem 2y ago
      The newer Fenixes are a lot more elegant looking. If you paired it with one of those steel-link straps I don't see why it wouldn't look great with a suit. The official straps are pricey but you can easily find cheaper aftermarket ones, e.g. https://www.amazon.com/Titanium-strap-Garmin-AMOLED-titanium/dp/B0DHVYWVC4 https://www.amazon.com/Titanium-strap-Garmin-AMOLED-titanium...
InfiniteTitan 2y ago
I bought a smartphone. I was shocked at the poor value proposition. Very expensive and the charge wouldn’t even last a day!!!
petee 2y ago
My Garmin Forerunner 265 has pretty decent battery life, maybe 8 days. I think what was the value for many was how their Connect app processed and displayed stats, though a recent change to "be pretty" has undone much of the usefulness. Combined with the chest monitor I could get balance, impact, stride etc stats live on my watch, which was great for helping correct a leftward lean I didn't know I was doing. So there are definitely some great features for runners. I hate carrying a phone, my watch does have GarminPay and music.
- eitally 2y ago
  Fwiw, I felt the same way about the Connect app changes last year, but that went away after a couple months once they released an update that lets you customize your main screen view. Now I appreciate the much richer widgets and the ability to swipe between several of the metrics that are most valuable to me. Also, I've found that the current iteration of their wrist HR sensors are quite good [compared to a chest strap] for everything except outdoor cycling. I have an Epix 2 Pro and never wear a chest strap for anything but cycling anymore.
jajko 2y ago
Apple to me has clearly a goal of providing a tiny version of smart phone on your wrist. Garmin aims at as-smart-as-possible watch. Everything else comes from this philosophy, be it battery, design of not only display and it shape etc. Different people prefer different things, for me its definitely the smart watch part. I am rather sporty, and tbh don't care about phone capabilities on my wrist, when I have it in the pocket/on the desk, that 1s lost when reaching for it is fine. Premium price, premium look, massively better battery, durability, option of solar charging etc. I am taking poster child in Garmin Fenix 8 since they have very wide range of products compared to Apple. Fenix 8 is also much prettier than Apple's ultra wrist brick but thats subjective I guess. Diving capabilities for casual divers like me are just cherry on top, saving me some 300-400 for good enough (but otherwise completely useless) diving computer, minimizing yet-another-device syndrome.
briffle 2y ago
I have a Garmin Instinct 2 solar. I had g-shock watches before, because I liked how tough they were, and the instinct2 is pretty close. I wear it swimming, running, sleeping, showering, etc. I take it off about once a month when I charge it up. This summer, I went 6 weeks between charges. The basic tracking of cardio, hiking, snowshoeing, etc, is exactly what I want from a smartwarch (lets me gamify my physical activity, and sleep). I does have some great ways to map hikes, find out how to get back (direct path, or retrace steps, etc). Its pretty amazing for a low level garmin.
zamadatix 2y ago
I'm still convinced most of the feature list of the Ultra was primarily added to dress up why the larger battery version needed to cost so much more.
fiftyfifty 2y ago
I've been using a Garmin Forerunner GPS watch for years, and what I've found I like the most about it is actually the Garmin Connect app on my phone. I don't think Garmin gets enough credit as a software shop. Connect is a great application for tracking your workouts over time. A fair number of runners even use Garmin's workout plans from the app. Even compared to running apps exclusively for iOS and Android I think the Garmin app is one of the better ones around, and is free to use with no monthly fees. Combine that with the fact that I don't even have to take my phone with me, I just wear my watch and it syncs with my phone when I get home. Running with a phone sucks, I have yet to find a way to carry one that isn't annoying.
- aeyes 2y ago
  For all runs except races and interval sessions I carry my phone in a Naked band. Works well for me and allows me to carry some other things like gels, tissues, keys, light...
- tra3 2y ago
  What's more, Garmin has an API so you can pull your data and analyze it locally. It's pretty neat. See garmindb: https://github.com/tamkaho/GarminDB https://github.com/tamkaho/GarminDB You can get a rolling average of your stress for example, or your sleep times.
- SoftTalker 2y ago
  > I don't think Garmin gets enough credit as a software shop. They make avionics systems. They probably have a good culture of making well tested, reliable software.
  - hiq 2y ago
    Well I have to set the record straight that I do find bugs regularly, both on the watch and the app. I'm still very happy with it (and I'm sure I prefer it over competitors), but not all of the features have been polished to the same extent nor do they seem to go through the same QA for every upgrade. The Garmin forum is a good witness to that.
- 2y ago
eitally 2y ago
Apple Watches are great for people who want their watch to be an extension of their phone. Full stop. Garmin watches are great for people who prioritize active lifestyles over social contact but still like to have the ability to receive notifications on their wrist. Do note, though, that Garmin's Vivo line has become "smarter" in the current gen, but I don't see them ever tackling Apple Watches directly with Forerunner, Fenix, etc models.
- canucker2016 2y ago
  It's more like "Apple Watches are great for people who want their watch to be an extension of their iPhone. Full stop." Apple Watch is not smartphone agnostic (requiring iPhone for Apple Watch setup). That's Apple's choice. Apple Watch has done well targeting just iPhone users. It makes some stuff easier for devs. But South Korea has its own walled garden - https://www.gizchina.com/2023/11/13/korean-smartphone-market-analysis/ https://www.gizchina.com/2023/11/13/korean-smartphone-market....
danudey 2y ago
> I guess you get used to it but having to charge my watch every day would drive me mad. The upside of the small battery capacity is a relatively fast charge time. If you put a watch charger in your bathroom you could put your watch on the charger when you go in for a shower and it'll be charged by the time you're finished showering, getting dressed, etc. I find it's a time that I have my watch off anyway, so it's not something that interferes with my daily use in any way. YMMV obviously, and after a few years when the battery starts holding less of a charge you may find a weirder time spacing that becomes irritating at times, but it's worked for me for years.
- RicoElectrico 2y ago
  Most smart watches (and even Xiaomi smart bands) are in similar ballpark of 200-ish mAh. All should in principle charge as quickly. It's just that Apple Watch is power hungry.
- justinrubek 2y ago
  My garmin is more than easily charged in the same amount of time. With its capacity I can even forget to do so for weeks and have no issue.
cogman10 2y ago
There's really only 2 features my garmin forerunner lacks that would make it pretty awesome. 1. LTE connectivity. Being able to take calls, get texts, send out live track notifications from my watch would be really fantastic. I take my phone out on runs not because I want to use my phone, but because that's the only way I can do all that stuff. 2. Paired with LTE connectivity, music/podcast streaming. My watch supports downloading playlists before a run which is nice but (frankly) a bit clunky. I really want to just be able to kick off yt music or spotify and instead. But honestly, if I had to give up my other features like long battery life to get either of those two then I'm good just not having them. I had fitbit watches before my garmin and I love the garmin ecosystem. My wife has a pixel watch and really the two features above are the only things it does that I'd want from it.
mvdtnz 2y ago
The first thing I do when I buy a Garmin watch (I have several) is turn off phone notifications. I simply cannot imagine why anyone would want them on. I tried for a decent amount of time but I just don't see the value in it, it's just aggravation I don't need. Not because of the implementation from Garmin, which is fine, but the whole concept.
mvdtnz 2y ago
I just don't understand how Apple, supposed masters of design and aesthetics, ever thought it was a good idea to release a square watch. It just looks so dumb.
- mbirth 2y ago
  The iconic Casio calculator watch was square. Dick Tracy’s watch was square. Michael Knight’s watch was square. All the smart watches were square. And try reading a longer notification on a round display. It just doesn’t make any sense.
827a 2y ago
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searealist 2y ago
The latest series Apple Watch charges from 0 to 80% in 30 minutes.
fishywang 2y ago
Garmin's hardware, including the hardware of their smartwatches, are very tempting. They are designed to be easy to use even with gloves, have good battery life, and on some high end they have solar and/or 40-meter scuba diving rated. If there's a way to use Garmin's smartwatches without using their cloud I probably would consider that. But since their ransomware attack from 2020, I really can no longer trust their cloud any more, especially that the data collected from a smartwatch is on the more sensitive side. The only Garmin hardware I'm still using is their bicycle tail light+radar, which I just use with wahoo's bike computer instead of other Garmin products.

scarface_74 2y ago

With my Apple Watch, I don’t need my phone when I’m running, swimming or at the gym. I can receive and return texts, make and receive calls and listen to music either stored on the watch or streamed over cellular.

iechoz6H 2y ago
How do you receive calls without a sim? Or does it have a dedicated sim with a different number to your regular phone?
- anderiv 2y ago
  Apple Watches have their own eSIM and they share a number with your phone.
- scarface_74 2y ago
  The Apple Watch has had a cellular option since 2017 with a built in eSIM. There is a separate number as far as billing. But the cellular carrier pairs your cellular watch with an iPhone on the same network. So calls come in and go out as if they were coming from your iPhone’s number. Whenever someone calls your phone - they both ring. If your phone is on and close enough to your watch so they are connected via Bluetooth (or WiFi?), all data and voice communication is relayed through your phone to save battery life. If your watch isn’t connected to your phone, the Watch uses cellular. Roaming support for Apple Watches was just announced in 2022 and is still not ubiquitous
- lotsofpulp 2y ago
  As far as I know, the watch’s eSIM technically has its own phone number, but the mobile provider does some backend stuff to make it look like it is using your iPhone’s phone number.
  - Kon-Peki 2y ago
    We got 3 cellular watches for our kids and set them up on one parent phone using the family connection thing. Each watch used only the phone number assigned to it, for both phone calls and messaging. Maybe they do things differently if you set it up in that way. As an only device for kids, it was about 80% there and over the course of a few years Apple made 0 progress, so we gave up on it as a concept. Only 1 kid still wears the watch; the other two are e-waste.
dhosek 2y ago
The swimming tracking seems magical to me. It counts laps and even identifies what stroke I’m doing (although I need to have a pause if I change strokes to let it accurately catch the change of stroke).
- iamacyborg 2y ago
  Pretty much all fitness trackers can do this, even really cheap ones.
nightski 2y ago
That's funny, phone related features are the first things I turn off on my Garmin watch when I set it up. The last thing I want is my wrist buzzing off when I am focused lol. In fact, any notifications on my wrist are just flat out obnoxious. I'll take my multiple weeks of battery life for a single charge on the Forerunner 965. The data and analytics are fantastic as well.
- scarface_74 2y ago
  There is a “Do not disturb” feature on the Apple Watch.
  - nluken 2y ago
    The point of that comment wasn't to suggest that you couldn't also silence notifications on an Apple Watch, it was to illustrate that the ability to receive these notifications isn't as relevant to Garmin's watches' target market as it is to the Apple Watch's.
- wiether 2y ago
  Yeah, I think that's part of the reason both the Apple Watch and Garmin's can thrive: because they have their own market. I recently renewed my Garmin watch and I did the same: disable all the phone related features. And one of the Reddit comments quoted in the article says the same: > Apple Watch is a Smartwatch with fitness features, Garmin is a Fitness watch (with admittedly lacking) smartwatch features. People still buy Garmin watches instead of Apple Watch because they don't want the "smart" stuff, they want the fitness stuff first. And yeah, the battery life is also a big factor!
- maples37 2y ago
  I'm pretty happy with the level of "smart" integration on my Garmin watch. For me, that's "shows me a preview of incoming SMS and Telegram messages" and the contact name when I receive a phone call. Plus the syncing of fitness activities. I do go back-and-forth on whether I want it to buzz or not, but that roughly overlaps between when I'm wearing the watch in the first place, so that has worked out well in my particular case. It fits well into my general philosophy of smartphone notifications, where real humans are allowed to buzz or make noise (phone calls / text messages) and everything else waits silently in the notification drawer until I choose to look at the phone.
hedora 2y ago
I wish I could just use the watch for everything and dump the phone. It does some ham fisted stuff to prevent this. For example, the watch Bluetooth stack detects that it is connected to a car stereo and refuses to work.
- timenova 2y ago
  I play music in my car over bluetooth only from my watch. Works even without having the iPhone nearby. But yes, I agree with you. The Apple Watch can and should support almost all features the iPhone has. Three features I would like to see: hotspot, switching apps while on call, and Airplay music to soundbars.
  - scarface_74 2y ago
    Hotspot from the watch would kill the battery life.
- figers 2y ago
  not being able to connect to car bluetooth is painful, why can't they just let that work already!
- exhilaration 2y ago
  It's kind of a sloppy solution, but what about using a Bluetooth to aux adapter? You would lose the dashboard audio controls but at least you can listen to your stuff.

infecto 2y ago

People value things differently but the battery life is always interesting to me. Certainly if I was backwoods hiking I get it but for my day to day I only take it off post workout in the morning as I shower and get ready for the day. It’s charged so quickly that I throw it back on as soon as I am done.

chikere232 2y ago
It sounds like you have a good routine, but it's pretty nice to just have to charge once a week or something
- vel0city 2y ago
  Yeah but we can always just shift that goalpost of a tradeoff and act like our arbitrary choice is the only right way. You need to charge that every week? Well this one lasts two weeks. Only two weeks, what a drag, this one lasts a month. You need to actually charge it? A Citizen Eco Drive charges itself even with only indoor light. Or an automatic watch that self winds on regular wrist movements, never really needing a "charge" so long as you're actively wearing it. It's all a trade off of what kind of features you want on your "watch". I'm not taking phone calls and doing NFC payments on an Eco Drive. People are going to value different things, to many charging a few minutes every day isn't an issue for what they seem to get from it.
  - chikere232 2y ago
    Of course, I just want the activity and sleep tracking, and the occasional alert or notification, so the tradeoff is easy. If I wanted whatever the apple watch can do beyond that I might make a different choice
- dhosek 2y ago
  The ideal charging cycles are either daily or never. With some non-daily cycle, I need to add “does my watch need recharging?” to my cognitive load.

sylens 2y ago

The Apple Watch is also a terribly designed device for running. Too much of its functions rely on interacting with the touchscreen, something you are either unable to do with sweaty hands when running or don't want to do as it draws your attention away for a prolonged amount of time and hurts your form. Garmin's unwavering commitment to physical buttons and how you can customize what they do is what makes them the gold standard in this area for me.

MarkusWandel 2y ago
As a non-Appleista, what strikes me most is their "silo" mentality. Most of the iPhone /iWatch using fitness types I know log their stuff inside the Apple cloud, and do not crosspost to Garmin Connect or Strava so the non-Appleistas don't see their stuff. Whereas the Garmin/Strava world is relatively open. I can for example take the original Forerunner (pictured in the article) and upload stuff from it to the Garmin or Strava cloud, albeit slightly cumbersomely. I sometimes do with a later model, a Forerunner 305, even if it does take USB download to do it. Physical buttons, though... I've lost more than one bike ride because the start/stop button was bumped on the Forerunner and it turned out not to be recording.
- sylens 2y ago
  That might have changed in recent years - I can import workouts to Strava that are recorded by my Apple Watch
  - MarkusWandel 2y ago
    With maps? The only Appleista that I know that crossposts to Strava always ends up with stats, but no map trace.
    - karlshea 2y ago
      Yes, with maps. The Apple Watch Strava app will record and upload directly or you can import workouts from Apple Health, both give you GPS, HR, etc. If recorded elsewhere it can depend, but that’s due to Strava being irritating/changing/dropping integration features in the last couple of years and not an Apple ecosystem issue. Or those people have maps uploaded but have chosen not to make them public?

jmull 2y ago

From my perspective -- someone who wants the things a smart watch does -- I can't figure out what a Garmin is for. They don't really do the job of a regular smart watch and aren't designed for wearing all the time, so it becomes a secondary device you need to manage and charge separately, not to mention pay for. Meanwhile, an Apple Watch can do all of it. IME, the battery life of Garmin's isn't a game changer... if you're using GPS (which for me would be all the time I'm using it), you're still charging regularly. Might as well charge every time you take it off. Not quite daily, but in the same ball park.

jagermo 2y ago
can you elaborate on " aren't designed for wearing all the time"? I wear my Epix 2 every day and it does all I want from a smartwatch - see incoming texts and calls while it tracks my health stats day and night. Yes, apple watch or Samsung ones may have more features, but I am not missing anything.
- jmull 2y ago
  > can you elaborate on " aren't designed for wearing all the time"? Well, they look like sport watches. People can choose the aesthetic they want, but you're sending a message with one that's that opinionated, which I don't particularly want to.
  - eitally 2y ago
    Ummm... and Apple Watches are the epitome of high fashion? I don't think this is a strong argument when directly comparing these two things. Fwiw, I have met quite a few watch enthusiasts who wear a mechanical watch on one wrist and an Apple Watch on the other. This seems natural, honestly, since the primary function of an Apple Watch is definitely not to tell time.
  - do_not_redeem 2y ago
    The newer Fenixes are a lot more elegant looking. If you paired it with one of those steel-link straps I don't see why it wouldn't look great with a suit. The official straps are pricey but you can easily find cheaper aftermarket ones, e.g. https://www.amazon.com/Titanium-strap-Garmin-AMOLED-titanium/dp/B0DHVYWVC4 https://www.amazon.com/Titanium-strap-Garmin-AMOLED-titanium...

InfiniteTitan 2y ago

I bought a smartphone. I was shocked at the poor value proposition. Very expensive and the charge wouldn’t even last a day!!!

petee 2y ago

My Garmin Forerunner 265 has pretty decent battery life, maybe 8 days. I think what was the value for many was how their Connect app processed and displayed stats, though a recent change to "be pretty" has undone much of the usefulness. Combined with the chest monitor I could get balance, impact, stride etc stats live on my watch, which was great for helping correct a leftward lean I didn't know I was doing. So there are definitely some great features for runners. I hate carrying a phone, my watch does have GarminPay and music.

eitally 2y ago
Fwiw, I felt the same way about the Connect app changes last year, but that went away after a couple months once they released an update that lets you customize your main screen view. Now I appreciate the much richer widgets and the ability to swipe between several of the metrics that are most valuable to me. Also, I've found that the current iteration of their wrist HR sensors are quite good [compared to a chest strap] for everything except outdoor cycling. I have an Epix 2 Pro and never wear a chest strap for anything but cycling anymore.

jajko 2y ago

Apple to me has clearly a goal of providing a tiny version of smart phone on your wrist. Garmin aims at as-smart-as-possible watch. Everything else comes from this philosophy, be it battery, design of not only display and it shape etc. Different people prefer different things, for me its definitely the smart watch part. I am rather sporty, and tbh don't care about phone capabilities on my wrist, when I have it in the pocket/on the desk, that 1s lost when reaching for it is fine. Premium price, premium look, massively better battery, durability, option of solar charging etc. I am taking poster child in Garmin Fenix 8 since they have very wide range of products compared to Apple. Fenix 8 is also much prettier than Apple's ultra wrist brick but thats subjective I guess. Diving capabilities for casual divers like me are just cherry on top, saving me some 300-400 for good enough (but otherwise completely useless) diving computer, minimizing yet-another-device syndrome.

briffle 2y ago

I have a Garmin Instinct 2 solar. I had g-shock watches before, because I liked how tough they were, and the instinct2 is pretty close. I wear it swimming, running, sleeping, showering, etc. I take it off about once a month when I charge it up. This summer, I went 6 weeks between charges. The basic tracking of cardio, hiking, snowshoeing, etc, is exactly what I want from a smartwarch (lets me gamify my physical activity, and sleep). I does have some great ways to map hikes, find out how to get back (direct path, or retrace steps, etc). Its pretty amazing for a low level garmin.

zamadatix 2y ago

I'm still convinced most of the feature list of the Ultra was primarily added to dress up why the larger battery version needed to cost so much more.

fiftyfifty 2y ago

I've been using a Garmin Forerunner GPS watch for years, and what I've found I like the most about it is actually the Garmin Connect app on my phone. I don't think Garmin gets enough credit as a software shop. Connect is a great application for tracking your workouts over time. A fair number of runners even use Garmin's workout plans from the app. Even compared to running apps exclusively for iOS and Android I think the Garmin app is one of the better ones around, and is free to use with no monthly fees. Combine that with the fact that I don't even have to take my phone with me, I just wear my watch and it syncs with my phone when I get home. Running with a phone sucks, I have yet to find a way to carry one that isn't annoying.

aeyes 2y ago
For all runs except races and interval sessions I carry my phone in a Naked band. Works well for me and allows me to carry some other things like gels, tissues, keys, light...
tra3 2y ago
What's more, Garmin has an API so you can pull your data and analyze it locally. It's pretty neat. See garmindb: https://github.com/tamkaho/GarminDB https://github.com/tamkaho/GarminDB You can get a rolling average of your stress for example, or your sleep times.
SoftTalker 2y ago
> I don't think Garmin gets enough credit as a software shop. They make avionics systems. They probably have a good culture of making well tested, reliable software.
- hiq 2y ago
  Well I have to set the record straight that I do find bugs regularly, both on the watch and the app. I'm still very happy with it (and I'm sure I prefer it over competitors), but not all of the features have been polished to the same extent nor do they seem to go through the same QA for every upgrade. The Garmin forum is a good witness to that.
2y ago

eitally 2y ago

Apple Watches are great for people who want their watch to be an extension of their phone. Full stop. Garmin watches are great for people who prioritize active lifestyles over social contact but still like to have the ability to receive notifications on their wrist. Do note, though, that Garmin's Vivo line has become "smarter" in the current gen, but I don't see them ever tackling Apple Watches directly with Forerunner, Fenix, etc models.

canucker2016 2y ago
It's more like "Apple Watches are great for people who want their watch to be an extension of their iPhone. Full stop." Apple Watch is not smartphone agnostic (requiring iPhone for Apple Watch setup). That's Apple's choice. Apple Watch has done well targeting just iPhone users. It makes some stuff easier for devs. But South Korea has its own walled garden - https://www.gizchina.com/2023/11/13/korean-smartphone-market-analysis/ https://www.gizchina.com/2023/11/13/korean-smartphone-market....

danudey 2y ago

> I guess you get used to it but having to charge my watch every day would drive me mad. The upside of the small battery capacity is a relatively fast charge time. If you put a watch charger in your bathroom you could put your watch on the charger when you go in for a shower and it'll be charged by the time you're finished showering, getting dressed, etc. I find it's a time that I have my watch off anyway, so it's not something that interferes with my daily use in any way. YMMV obviously, and after a few years when the battery starts holding less of a charge you may find a weirder time spacing that becomes irritating at times, but it's worked for me for years.

RicoElectrico 2y ago
Most smart watches (and even Xiaomi smart bands) are in similar ballpark of 200-ish mAh. All should in principle charge as quickly. It's just that Apple Watch is power hungry.
justinrubek 2y ago
My garmin is more than easily charged in the same amount of time. With its capacity I can even forget to do so for weeks and have no issue.

cogman10 2y ago

There's really only 2 features my garmin forerunner lacks that would make it pretty awesome. 1. LTE connectivity. Being able to take calls, get texts, send out live track notifications from my watch would be really fantastic. I take my phone out on runs not because I want to use my phone, but because that's the only way I can do all that stuff. 2. Paired with LTE connectivity, music/podcast streaming. My watch supports downloading playlists before a run which is nice but (frankly) a bit clunky. I really want to just be able to kick off yt music or spotify and instead. But honestly, if I had to give up my other features like long battery life to get either of those two then I'm good just not having them. I had fitbit watches before my garmin and I love the garmin ecosystem. My wife has a pixel watch and really the two features above are the only things it does that I'd want from it.

mvdtnz 2y ago

The first thing I do when I buy a Garmin watch (I have several) is turn off phone notifications. I simply cannot imagine why anyone would want them on. I tried for a decent amount of time but I just don't see the value in it, it's just aggravation I don't need. Not because of the implementation from Garmin, which is fine, but the whole concept.

mvdtnz 2y ago

I just don't understand how Apple, supposed masters of design and aesthetics, ever thought it was a good idea to release a square watch. It just looks so dumb.

mbirth 2y ago
The iconic Casio calculator watch was square. Dick Tracy’s watch was square. Michael Knight’s watch was square. All the smart watches were square. And try reading a longer notification on a round display. It just doesn’t make any sense.

827a 2y ago

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searealist 2y ago

The latest series Apple Watch charges from 0 to 80% in 30 minutes.

fishywang 2y ago

Garmin's hardware, including the hardware of their smartwatches, are very tempting. They are designed to be easy to use even with gloves, have good battery life, and on some high end they have solar and/or 40-meter scuba diving rated. If there's a way to use Garmin's smartwatches without using their cloud I probably would consider that. But since their ransomware attack from 2020, I really can no longer trust their cloud any more, especially that the data collected from a smartwatch is on the more sensitive side. The only Garmin hardware I'm still using is their bicycle tail light+radar, which I just use with wahoo's bike computer instead of other Garmin products.