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TCL's bet on screens that look like paper
- jickes 2y agoI honestly would love one of those "paperlike" tablets for reading and browsing the web. I have always liked kindles as well but I just prefer physically owning/reading books. Really cool tech though.
- rpgbr 2y agoNot to mention that tablets are way more versatile than Kindle-like e-readers. I'm slowly replacing an aging iPad for printed articles (easier on my eyes), but I'd be tempted to get the newer TCL's NXTPAPER tablet once it arrives where I live.
- criddell 2y agoThe extra versatility is a con in my opinion. I want a dedicated e-reader that does one thing and does it well. Every design decision should be made with the goal of improving the reading experience. The (discontinued) Kindle Oasis is close to perfect IMHO.
- comonoid 2y agoThat's TCL, not Tcl.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- kencausey 2y agoIt's an auto-formatting thing that HN does to submitted titles. If you catch it soon enough you can edit the title and it will be allowed as you specify, at least that was true the last time I tried.
- wslh 2y agoYes, that continues to work: (1) submit your post, (2) it's modified by HN based on rules such as multiple uppercases on a word, (3) edit the post title.
- nilamo 2y agoThanks, I was curious what a programming language had to do with anything.
- hinkley 2y agoIt’s become self aware! Everybody run!
- adolph 2y agoI thought both would be all caps but it seems that the language uses an initialism rather than an acronym. All my life I’ve been rarely typing out all caps Tcl like I’m one of the folk who use all caps MAC for the line of Apple computers. TCL Technology Group Corp. (originally an abbreviation for Telephone Communication Limited) is a Chinese partially state-owned electronics company headquartered in Huizhou, Guangdong province. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TCL_Technology https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TCL_Technology Tcl (pronounced "tickle" or as an initialism[8]; originally Tool Command Language) is a high-level, general-purpose, interpreted, dynamic programming language. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tcl https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tcl
- JKCalhoun 2y agoBefore Steve Jobs shut down the Advanced Technology Group (ATG) at Apple (in the late 1990's?), some coworkers reported having had a mini-tour of ATG and were blown away by a display they saw that "looked like paper!". If my memory is correct it was a 200 DPI LCD panel. No doubt that kind of DPI back in the 90's looked like paper. ;-) I would love to see in person what over two decades has produced.
- kevin_thibedeau 2y agoHigh DPI CRTs existed back then. That is a more likely explanation.
- msephton 2y ago"High" being relative and constantly changing, of course. The SGI 1600SW from 1998 was 1600x1024 at 17.3 inches, so 110dpi. A beautiful thing, but not really like paper IMHO. https://bytecellar.com/2008/02/13/the_sgi_1600sw/ https://bytecellar.com/2008/02/13/the_sgi_1600sw/ && https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SGI_1600SW https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SGI_1600SW
- hinkley 2y agoI think Apple and other people maintained that 150 DPI is around where you start perceiving a monitor to be similar to a printed page.
- saltcured 2y agoConsidering the IBM "Big Bertha" LCD was an obtainable product in 2001, it doesn't seem too far-fetched that high resolution LCDs existed in some R&D labs years earlier. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_T220/T221_LCD_monitors https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_T220/T221_LCD_monitors It's not quite a 4K monitor, but I'll tell you it was pretty amazing to those of us who saw it demonstrated back then. This was a qualitatively different thing than we were familiar with. And, as I recall, it took 2 or 4 DVI inputs to drive it from typical graphics cards of the era. A single display output could not drive these kinds of pixel counts.
- hedora 2y agoThey claim they have a phone with a 7 day on, 26 day standby battery, and are charging $199 for it. Something’s fishy.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- yapyap 2y agoit’s probably a very basic phone
- loloquwowndueo 2y agoIt only needs to be able to make/receive calls to be called a phone, right? Why would it be more expensive?
- rcthompson 2y agoIt has an alternate low-power mode that only provides a few basic functions (presumably phone, text, maybe a basic web browser?). When running in "regular" Android mode it won't reach those numbers (although I believe it still claims to do better than most phones in that mode).
- Etheryte 2y agoI mean, a classic old Nokia easily ticks all those boxes, what's fishy about it?
- 3eb7988a1663 2y agoYou can get a Garmin inReach emergency "phone" that gives calls + text over satellite and has a 25 day battery life.
- brookst 2y agoArticle says 550 nits “doesn’t compare” to traditional screens, but that’s not true. Most desktop displays are 300-400 nits. HDR displays get up to 1000ish nits but not for the whole screen. Phone screens are brighter because of outdoor use, but 550 is more than enough for indoor monitors. (Not to… nit pick)
- bartvk 2y agoYou are right, but in Summmer, if you sit in close to the window, more nits is very nice.
- heinternets 2y agoIf you want to be able to fully present the full range of HDR you need at least 1,000 but more like 10,000 nits.
- itishappy 2y agoPhone screens aren't just a bit brighter. Modern phone screens reach 1000 nits baseline and peak above 2000. Top-of-the-line models are now quoting 4600 (OnePlus 12) and 6000 (realme GT Neo 6 SE).
- odyssey7 2y agoMaybe Amazon will elevate its kindle game now. I just want a large-enough ePaper display for PDFs that’s just as comfortable to hold, has light so I can read it in the dark, and is waterproof. The lack of serious smartphone-like capabilities is a feature, not a bug, but the awkwardness with PDFs is a bug.
- Beijinger 2y agoI want this but not for this price: https://shop.dasung.com/products/dasung-25-3-e-ink-monitor-paperlike-253 https://shop.dasung.com/products/dasung-25-3-e-ink-monitor-p...
- 7thaccount 2y agoInteresting that Mac is not supported.
- manmal 2y agoMight be the temporal dithering that can’t be disabled.
- craftkiller 2y agoNot the color variant of the same monitor? https://shop.dasung.com/products/dasung-paperlike-color-world-first-color-e-ink-monitor https://shop.dasung.com/products/dasung-paperlike-color-worl... If it was gallery 3 and half the price I'd order one today.
- magic_hamster 2y agoThere are a few products like this already like the Boox Tab X which is 13.3". Roughly A4 sized, so it's very good for reading papers. However, if you're willing to go with a more conventional screen, there are convertible laptops that will a very good job in reading papers in full color.
- odyssey7 2y ago
- yapyap 2y agohell yeah
- Beijinger 2y agoHm. Looks like it is available already? https://www.pcmag.com/reviews/tcl-nxtpaper-11 https://www.pcmag.com/reviews/tcl-nxtpaper-11
- pyrophane 2y agoI believe that is the previous generation. Their naming is confusing.
- syntaxing 2y agoI recently got a Boox Go Color 7 (I know I know, the GPL violations suck but the options are limited). I was blown away how usable the Kaleidoscope screens are. All the reviews online made them sound absolutely terrible. But having color makes the users experience much richer and enjoyable. My spouse has a Kobo Libra Color and she loves it equally as much.
- rcthompson 2y agoDoes anyone know where I can see one of these screens in person? I'm interested in potentially owning one for reading comics, graphic novels, etc., but I'd really like to see what it looks like in person before spending money on one.
- IshKebab 2y agoWhat exactly is paper-like about this? It sounds like it is still transmissive (they talk about brightness rather than contrast), which is just the same as any other screen no? E-ink is paper-like because it's reflective.
- mbrubeck 2y agoIt sounds like it is dual-mode / transflective, based on the description of the button that “turns the display into an e-ink format” with ”a huge increase in battery life, up to 7 days of reading.”
- sigio 2y agoI have an older NXTPAPER Tcl tablet, its just a regular tft lcd screen, with a textured coating making it feel more paperlike and giving it a abti-glare coating. Its quite nice, but nowhere near epaper, so it does 60fps, but uses just as much power as regular tft displays, at the cost of some brightness
- Animats 2y agoSo they just moved away from the annoying shiny screen to a matte surface? That's good; the shiny glass screen is a marketing thing with negative usability value. My big displays are all matte.
- geor9e 2y agoCan you use it in direct sunlight? That'd be the main advantage for me. I enjoy lounging outdoors with a laptop. My macbook screen is completely unusable in the sun.
- WillAdams 2y agoOther competitors in this space: - Daylight Computer (mentioned in the article) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40456834 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40456834 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40754445 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40754445 - Onyx Boox https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27513521 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27513521 - Kobo https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40015429 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40015429 - Amazon Kindle Scribe (also mentioned) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33009715 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33009715 FWIW, I still haven't managed to fully replace my Newton MessagePad with a single device --- the Samsung Galaxy Note 10+ comes close, but I don't like to read books on it, and it's a bit small, so makes sketching fussy. The Kindle Scribe is great, for reading books, but no immediacy in handwriting recognition/shape conversion, so I only use it for note-taking and sketching, but not for writing first drafts or editing texts. The Wacom One 13 (gen one screen) attached to my MacBook is a nice fallback, and makes it convenient when I'm both taking notes or referring to a text (on my Scribe) and drawing/annotating/working on a project on my Mac. The Samsung Galaxy Book 3 Pro 360 is awesome, but a bit large and cumbersome when folded into tablet mode --- really wish Samsung had made a replacement for my Galaxy Book 12 (the perfect thing would be a dual-screen 12" device w/ Wacom EMR, competing against the Lenovo Yogabook 9i (which I'd buy if it had Wacom EMR)). A dual-fold 3-panel device where the outside panel was e-ink would be perfect.
- conception 2y agoOn an aside i have a newton i bring out to “show the kids” and it’s amazing how good it still is. Really ahead of its time.
- pyrophane 2y agoI really want to like the more recent devices from Boox. The display tech is just about there with their "Super Refresh." It works well enough for most apps where you are scrolling. Problem is that the software is pretty buggy and can become randomly unresponsive to touch input, which can be pretty frustrating. This has been true on the Tab Ultra, the Tab Mini C, and the Palma 2. Still, Boox tablets are the closest to what I've been looking for: an eInk device with enough flexibility that I can read more than just books on it.
- UncleOxidant 2y agoAvoid Boox. Their displays are very fragile and have a reputation for cracking even if you're careful. That happened to my Air 3 C about 3 months after I bought it. I was very careful with it - never traveled with it, only used it at home. One day after charging it I turned it on and the screen was ruined. I contacted Boox about warranty repair and they said it was my fault and I would have to pay $300+ plus shipping both ways to get it fixed. They have a reputation for blaming the customer first. I'll never buy one of their products again.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- maxglute 2y agohttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4feBmyySDQk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4feBmyySDQk Physical toggle switch really sells it.
- pavlov 2y agoI have the Daylight Computer mentioned in this article. I like it quite a lot (though the price is still high enough that it’s really an indulgence only justified if you can buy gadgets through an employer or your own company). The physical design is the opposite of the Apple aesthetic. Instead of metal and glass and vibrant colors, it’s a dull gray rectangle with a soft-touch plastic backside and a sort of paperish texture on the display. In fact it looks and feels like a prop from Apple TV’s “Silo”. It gets a nice lived-in quality after a few months. The display is sharp and fast and monochrome — a unique combination these days. It reminds me of the original NeXT in that sense, which is great. But the brightness and viewing angles take some getting used to. It’s really good in daylight, as the company’s name suggests. The backlight has an adjustable amber tone which goes with the retro/“Silo” vibe and is also nice in the evening. It’s good for reading articles and books, but the monochrome display is also a surprisingly effective distraction remover filter for websites and even videos. I generally hate watching YouTube videos, but if that’s the only option to learn something, I’ll rather watch the video on the Daylight Computer. It comes with a stylus and the display has a nice texture, but I haven’t yet got into note-taking or drawing.
- UncleOxidant 2y agoWhen I go to their site I only see something about pre-ordering and putting down a $100 deposit. What's the price and will Libby (Library app) work on it?
- pavlov 2y agoI paid 680 euros + shipping for an early batch last summer. It has Android and the Play Store, so all those apps work.
- KerrAvon 2y ago(The original NeXT was not very fast, due to the MO drive. Imagine VM thrashing on that thing.)
- pavlov 2y ago
- UncleOxidant 2y ago> In addition to the tablet (still without price or release date) That's the thing... I saw a discussion on reddit the other day in which people were asking about TCL NXTPaper products announced at last year's (2024) CES that still weren't available. I'm interested in one of these NXTPaper Tablet 11 Plus devices for an ereader as my Boox Air 3C's color eink display died about 3 months after buying it (now I know they have a reputation for being extremely fragile). But I wonder if it will ever actually be available in the US.
- jerlam 2y agoAt least for last year, TCL has been partnering with mobile providers for distribution. TCL Tab 10 NXTPAPER at Verizon: https://www.verizon.com/tablets/tcl-tab-10-nxtpaper-5g/ https://www.verizon.com/tablets/tcl-tab-10-nxtpaper-5g/
- UncleOxidant 2y agoI've seen that. I don't want to buy a tablet from a mobile provider. I'm not going to make calls on a tablet. I hope they sell a version of the 11 plus that's not tied to a mobile provider.
- UncleOxidant 2y agoIf you're looking for an eink device, Avoid Boox devices. I bought an Air 3C and the display was borked 3 months after I bought it. Knowing that their displays are fragile, I never traveled with it. Only used it at home and left it on a shelf on top of a stack of books (no books on top of it). One day after charging it overnight I turned it on an found the display ruined - internally cracked, it would seem. When I wrote boox to inquire about warranty service they told me it was my fault and it was going to cost me $300+ to get it repaired (plus shipping each way). Boox devices are very fragile and the blame the customer when the display breaks.
- goosedragons 2y agoVast majority of eInk devices are equally fragile. It's not unique to Boox. They use a glass substrate that's suspectible to cracking. A handful of devices use plastic like the Kobo Forma but they're a rarity. While Boox's response to you was bad, personally I've had no issues with my Boox screens despite traveling with them and having them for years.
- kybernetikos 2y agoMy boox note has lasted years, been to the beach and on hikes, visited multiple countries, and commuted with me most work days. No sign of fragility. In that time I've had two kindles and one kobo break.
- UncleOxidant 2y agoIs it a color boox? Mine was color. I think those are more fragile.
- kybernetikos 2y agoColour ones weren't around when I bought it. I had been considering an upgrade but it sounds like maybe I should wait.
- solarkraft 2y agoFWIW, I have had a Nova 2 for years. I dropped it on stone once, a piece of the frame glass chipped out, but the display is fine. I wouldn’t recommend it for other reasons (it’s not really good for notes, which I had hoped to get out of it).
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- pianoben 2y agoAnd here I thought this was about the programming language!
- inSenCite 2y ago"It will be released first in Canada..." Filing this under things we don't see very often (or at least since RIM went underwater).