10 ms·

I really think Matt is suffering from some sort of a mental breakdown. It’s a sad situation and there’s a lot to learn about open source projects with a huge us

I really think Matt is suffering from some sort of a mental breakdown. It’s a sad situation and there’s a lot to learn about open source projects with a huge user base and where the bottle necks exist. But I think people who know or are close to him should seriously consider an intervention. I can’t believe after two decades he’d just decide to throw it all out in a blazing fire and tarnish his reputation (and Wordpress) because of some valuation drop or being short on money. I think the dude needs help, and people close to him should try and talk sense into him.

dangrossman 2y ago
I don't think it's a mental breakdown, I think this is a (poorly executed) long pivot into Matt's companies having tighter control over the ecosystem and keeping more of the profits from hosting, plugin and theme sales. He's burning down "the community" on purpose. In a couple years, it'll be run more like Shopify, where the theme store and app store only list products that run their billing through Shopify and give Shopify a 15%+ share of all associated revenue.
- add-sub-mul-div 2y ago
  One reason that Reddit's API changes killing the best clients was so poisonous is that the resulting non-exodus showed other companies that they can take user-hostile actions with impunity. A big enough mass of passive and undiscerning users will stay no matter what. Hence there being more freedom to take a strategy like this.
  - llm_trw 2y ago
    Reddit has been user hostile since 2014. It's just that as long as you hurt one part of the community the other parts hate you're fine. The mods are universally hated on reddit and they were the ones most impacted by the changes. The average user either didn't notice or stopped getting automatically banned for joining the wrong subreddits.
    - jjmarr 2y ago
      > The average user... stopped getting automatically banned for joining the wrong subreddits. Still happens, you're just not allowed to talk about it. /r/bannedforbeingjewish (which collated this) is banned,[1] but to give an example, /r/interestingasfuck (13 million subscribers) bans users that are members of /r/Israel.[2] [1] https://www.reddit.com/r/bannedforbeingjewish/ https://www.reddit.com/r/bannedforbeingjewish/ [2] https://archive.is/OkfOY https://archive.is/OkfOY
      - Suppafly 2y ago
        What's weird is the subs that will ban you for simply commenting in another sub, especially for just one comment, even if your comments are contrary to the theme of the sub.
        encom 2y ago
        When r/thedonald was around, I would debate misconceptions americans had about politics in Denmark from time to time (no we're not socialist). And of course I would get banned left and right (but mostly left), and would get the "you post in thedonald, ergo I win"-line regularly. Reddit was a trash heap then, and it's gotten exponentially worse since. Why anyone go there voluntarily is beyond me. It contains nothing of value.
        zdragnar 2y ago
        If you like British panel shows (or any version of taskmaster) then /r/panelshow is pretty great. Not much chatter, but then again, maybe that's part of the appeal lol.
        echoangle 2y ago
        Tech support for niche issues is pretty good there.
        wink 2y ago
        That subreddit could basically not be further from the ones I frequent. There are some ok cycling ones, relatively low traffic, not many people, good content - and especially not only typical computer nerds.
  - pants2 2y ago
    I think Reddit's API changes and more did lead to an Exodus of a good chunk of power users that gave the site more of an identity. But what's worse is the official Reddit clients gamify using Reddit so much that, on the whole, content quality is down significantly, even in the smaller niche subreddits that usually had great stuff. The problem is high quality content isn't profitable, endless scrolling is.
    - gunsle 2y ago
      Very insightful, didn’t think about Reddit’s incentive to promote low effort garbage over quality content
      - Implicated 2y ago
        As someone who has been ingesting a high volume of reddit "content" for the better part of 3 years - the spam/bot problem is _wild_. I've implemented a handful of methods to detect 'networks' of these bots/spammers/karma farming accounts and, from the subreddits I'm monitoring, it's _more than half_ of the total accounts posting to them. This is across subreddits of all types, sizes and topics. Massive subs, regional subs, local subs, they're all completely inundated with these accounts - and these are the ones that make it through Reddit's own spam detection and whatever each subreddit has in place to handle moderation. These are the posts that do go public, more than half of the _accounts_ I've determined are spam/karma farming/bots. It's an even greater proportion of the _posts_ that belong to these accounts. (Thus, there are more spammers than "real" users, and they're posting more than the "real" users) And this is with rather elementary methods of determining "spam" from "real" users/content. Those spammers who aren't being very lazy can pretty easily slide through my filters. (I'm detecting 'duplicates' of images and post titles/account descriptions using perceptual hash/simhash and hamming distance only - I'm rolling out text/image vector embedding based duplicate detection now and the numbers are even worse with this in place but I don't have it properly tuned yet) They're literally just re-posting the same content that successful/high karma accounts have previously posted en masse across as many subreddits as they can find/aren't banned from and it's wildly effective. What's crazy to me is that many of them are in the 6 and 7 digits of karma - obviously spam accounts with > 1,000,000 karma is wild. It seems to me that Reddit has zero interest in controlling this. Some might argue this is confirmed by the lack of moderation tools available to subreddit mods (which was ultimately the motivation of me building this system - but when they changed the API stuff I changed my goals/intention with it).
  - duxup 2y ago
    People care about content, apis less so, unfortunately.
  - brookst 2y ago
    > undiscerning users will stay no matter what That's one take. Another is: ecosystem partners are often surprised what users actually value. We all like to think that our contributions are critical, but the Reddit example shows a huge disconnect between the value 3P partners thought they were delivering and what users actually valued.
  - gamblor956 2y ago
    I've found that the API changes improved the subreddits I was in because it made it harder for spambots to operate. Reddit got away with the changes because ultimately the power users were a tiny fraction of its userbase, and they were using clients that hid the ads so Reddit wasn't making any money from them so Reddit didn't care about their wants.
  - radium3d 2y ago
    Reddit is not GPL so while hostile it’s incomparable to WordPress core. The user base of Reddit would have to rewrite from scratch. Wordpress can and will be forked if it comes to it. There are enough businesses relying on it that it would be worth it to re govern it under an alternate name.
  - wink 2y ago
    You're making it sound like Reddit was unusable without API/client in the past though. I'd never used a Reddit client before I started using it at all on mobile. I bet a good chunk of users (esp casually browsing, or frequenting exactly one niche subreddit) just used the web. Not saying it wasn't user hostile or sucked, it just doesn't match the experience I had (or when I talked to some people).
- forgetfreeman 2y ago
  Eh. Aquia tried a similar stunt with Drupal (centralize all the tings at the community's expense) and that hasn't exactly been a rousing success. I don't have a great feel for how dependent upon the larger dev community the WordPress ecosystem is so maybe it'll work for them?
- daitangio 2y ago
  I fear you are right. Remember they ask $25/monthly for 1 website on pressable, I can run Wordpress open source for 5x month on Linode, and there are ready made installation on docker, digital ocean and so on…
  - hobs 2y ago
    That implies you need to dedicate the 5 bucks a month per instance, when you look at how much things are write once and cacheable as heck, you could easily get customers down to pennies per instance per month.
  - shiftpgdn 2y ago
    Pressable includes support, global caching, and a bunch of other things you won't get on a $5/month VPS. Also not everyone wants to play system administrator 7 days a week to keep their server from getting hijacked or nuked.
    - debesyla 2y ago
      True, but shared hosting providers (like hostinger) offers basically the same, but for cheaper and no pricing per website, even on cheaper plans you can fit five or more sites in. Of course, it doesn't matter in the end - as long as users have ability to choose a hosting there will be cheaper and "better" options. Shopyfing wordpress would be worse...
      - whycome 2y ago
        There’s value to users in using a service that’s the same as the software. Trust is worth it to consumers. It’s why many still prefer to take their cars to the dealer rather than an Indy shop
        grogenaut 2y ago
        I've had 3 cars totaled by dealers and none totaled by indy shops. One was actually messed up by them beyond repair. One was messed up and they wanted more to fix it well beyond the replace cost. The final one just wanted well beyond the replace cost, and I got it fixed for much much less at an indy shop. Just find a good indy shop. there's a great one 2 blocks from my house at a gas station. discusses all repairs with you, good on preventive maintenance, 1/4 the price of a dealer. Will tell you what repairs you actually need to do and what you don't. Also easier to schedule and pick up and drop off. I have to wait at the mega dealer near me like 15-30 minutes at drop off and pick up. At least the toyota one will let you defer your car wash instead of waiting for it longer. At the gas station I drop the car in the lot and drop the keys in a mailbox. For pickup I go in any day till 10 and pay like I'm buying an energy drink, grab the keys and walk out to the lot to grab it.
- chrismsimpson 2y ago
  Perhaps more indicative of late stage capitalism where rent seekers try to extract more and more value and consolidate more and more power.
  - labster 2y ago
    Late stage capitalism is almost indistinguishable from a mental disorder, though.
  - ahmeneeroe-v2 2y ago
    How is this unique to "late stage capitalism"? That same sentence can be used mad lib style for any human endevor. >Perhaps more indicative of ________ where rent seekers try to extract more and more value and consolidate more and more power Feudal Europe Roman patrician class British Raj Ming dynasty bureaucrats Latin American drug cartels etc Point being that the "late stage capitalism" people lack rigor and don't add to the conversation
    - JBiserkov 2y ago
      Don't argue with me about definitions, I'm trying to explain what I think the GP meant and why `the "late stage capitalism" people lack rigor and don't add to the conversation` is incorrect. Capitalism-imperialism: a system based on endless growth and expansionism, where the proletariat in the imperial core is pacified by the crumbs the capitalist give it from the plunder of the colonies; the crumbs also allow the proletariat to buy the goods and services, thus maintaining demand, sort of. Late stage capitalism-imperialism: the entire planet in conquered, the "low-hanging" resources have been consumed, there is nowhere left to expand, except inward, so the capitalists start cannibalizing the proletariat in the imperial core by giving it less and less crumbs, in order to achieve even higher rates of profit; to remain in power, while the masses see their quality of life decline / starve, they need to consolidate more and more power. More than the absolute monarchs ever had. > the entire planet in conquered, the "low-hanging" resources have been consumed that same sentence canNOT be used to describe any human endeavor in any other epoch. We are in the anthropocene now.
- TeMPOraL 2y ago
  You may be right. Come to think of it, until this drama, the only "community" I believed exists around Wordpress is the network of small businesses specialized in Wordpress hosting, maintenance and consulting for other small businesses. I personally know someone running a sole proprietorship, whose entire income over past ~decade came from such Wordpress jobs. It might be that this will be the only "community" that remains going forward.
  - citizenpaul 2y ago
    The only interaction i have with wordpress is sleazy small consultancies selling it to clueless mgmt as the magic solution to all their problems. I really have never had a positive impression of wordpress due to this. I can't even remember all the times I've been suckerpunched with "hey we hired these people to implement <magic wordpress> and its not going so well. They tell us its because our systems are bad and our employees are not doing things right. Can you get with them and see what the <Insert Manager speak for blames you> seems to be....? ME: The problem is they are some hack shop that "sold you" and bit off more than they could chew and they also don't have a clue about systems integrations. MGMT: Nope the problem is our employees that have been working here getting "Exceeds expectations" on reviews that are the problem. We have no explanation for why though... So we are hiring McKinsey to come in and do a department evaluation to find out.
- kedean 2y ago
  He's doing it in a way that feels suspiciously like a breakdown to me. The latest "we're restricting our contributions to 45 hours a week to match WPEngine" is the the reaction of a college student who is mad at their lab partner, not of an establish business that helped build the internet as we know it.
  - satvikpendem 2y ago
    Lots of executives at big companies can be petty though, it's nothing new when one is in power and surrounds themselves with yes men. It doesn't mean they're necessarily having a breakdown at all.
    - kibwen 2y ago
      What you've observed, quite accurately, is that our bar for emotional intelligence when it comes to corporate executives is the same that we expect from ten-year olds.
      - throwpoaster 2y ago
        Respectfully, it's not. Serious businesses take EQ seriously.
        technion 2y ago
        This feels very "no true scotsman" to me. It's accurate if none of the large places I've worked are "serious".
        Nectar0516 2y ago
        At best, "serious" businesses (which I take to mean large, successful ones) pretend to take EQ seriously.
        throwpoaster 2y ago
        Engaging with reality as directly as possible is important in business. Emotions are a part of reality, usually a signal about social dynamics. At the higher levels of serious companies — by which I mean ones trying to win in the market, regardless of size - managers and executives regularly receive training about this. I can’t say more because this is my alt, but: “executives are childish”, “executives are psychopaths”, etc. are very common, often incorrect narratives. If anything executives should be straightforward and simple. To return to topic: something is going seriously sideways with Matt, and I wish him the best.
- legitster 2y ago
  One thing to keep in mind, WordPress being open source was an afterthought. It inherited a GPL from b2/cafelog. If Matt woke up one morning and decided he wanted to make WordPress closed source, he couldn't. But what he could do is force everyone to pay a license fee for the name, and anyone who did not pay he publicly makes hell for them. You could also pretend to encourage them to fork, knowing full well they would be bound by a GPL just like him. This is actually a very successful business strategy and even has a name: racketeering.
  - lupire 2y ago
    Using the GPL is not racketeering. Why would any user expect more rights than a contributor?
  - satvikpendem 2y ago
    I don't understand your point about forking, yes they'd have the GPL but so what? They can control their fork from then on, it doesn't matter if they have to continue open sourcing contributions, in fact it'd be preferable to whatever Matt is doing.
    - shaded2 2y ago
      I think you underestimate the work it takes to maintain and more importantly grow such a large open source project. If wp engine can barely contribute today, what are the chances they want to take on the whole thing. Nope they just want to get rich off open source. That's understandable , they are a for profit after all. But at what point does it make sense to give back in terms of either money or time to make improvements to the ecosystem that you depend on. I agree with Matt's ideals but not the actions. The reality is theres not a whole lot he can do without looking like spoilt kid taking his ball away from the game.
  - johannes1234321 2y ago
    He drives the project long enough that probably no b2 code remains. He could have prepared and take a contributor agreement or some other measures to allow relicensing. Question however is, whether auch a scheme would have made WordPress successful, or if it thrives from the community, where many assumed that everybody plays on the same field via GPL.
- vasco 2y ago
  I think you may have a point about what will happen, but that can happen at the same time as a mental breakdown. How do you justify something like this https://techcrunch.com/2024/12/17/pineapple-on-pizza-is-delicious-and-if-you-disagree-you-cant-log-in-to-wordpress-org/ https://techcrunch.com/2024/12/17/pineapple-on-pizza-is-deli... if you only believe in the power play? How does this fit in?
  - harikb 2y ago
    Here is an alternate possibility 1. They introduced a checkbox for "users to confirm that they are not affiliated with WP Engine" 2. A court ordered Automattic to reverse course 3. Developer thought it was easy to quickly just change the text rather than make code changes. Let us not say people are crazy when there are alternate narratives
    - lupire 2y ago
      That's likely to corrupt the database backend, which now appears to store old "non WP Engine" affirmations in the same location as new "pineapple pizza" affirmations. How will they be able to distinguish?
      - LocalPCGuy 2y ago
        You're assuming they actually care to distinguish. But real answer, barring a brief period where some users may get a cached version, they can likely just use the date of change to determine before and after if necessary.
      - nathansherburn 2y ago
        I don't think the purpose of the checkbox was to collect useful data but an any case storing it as a date would probably solve the issue.
      - lolinder 2y ago
        No, the server-visible name has changed.
    - deleted 2y ago
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- Nectar0516 2y ago
  I would hope that this would cause more people to realize that allowing total control of the things you use to be centralized in one person (or business) is bad, but well... quite similar things have happened to plenty of other open source projects before.
- MrSkelter 2y ago
  There is no “we” here. It’s a man making arbitrary decisions about pineapple on pizza. There is no plan and the watch and drawn out nature is indicative of someone reacting to events rather than implementing a plan. I have 20 years in WP and B2. This is tragic. He needs to be removed or the platform will die making a huge repository of knowledge valueless.
MattGaiser 2y ago
> because of some valuation drop or being short on money. Why is that hard to believe? People have done much worse for much less money.
- wahnfrieden 2y ago
  People would rather believe their leaders broke their brain than to accept that their power is wielded over us for selfish personal gain
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
simple10 2y ago
I feel for him and the people in his wake. Benevolent dictators of open source are great for productivity until benevolence gives way to malevolence. At this point, if he stepped down it would be seen as giving in. So highly unlikely until the legal dust settles a bit. I also agree with other commenters that it's not a mental breakdown but more of a poorly executed strategy that's been in the works for awhile. To take Wordpress more into a closed source hybrid ecosystem. And at this point, anything Matt does in favor of Automattic's business plan will blow up on social. My bet is this will continue for another 6 months at least until Automattic's revenue increases or flatlines. But yeah, I'm curious about the mental toll when founders go through these types of hyper public events. The startup world needs a lot more discussion and guidance for mental health.
- ethbr1 2y ago
  > Benevolent dictators of open source are great for productivity until benevolence gives way to malevolence. Autocracy is more efficient, with the best leaders. Democracy is more stable, with the worst leaders. The suboptimal cases are autocracy with bad leaders or democracy with good leaders. I think it's also pretty common that autocratic leaders go badly quickly. The same focus and dedication that drove them also makes it unlikely they'll suddenly decide to step away cleanly. Instead, they'll decide that everyone else is wrong, they're the ones that really put in all the work, {insert rationalization here}, and fight change.
  - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
    > The suboptimal cases are autocracy with bad leaders or democracy with good leaders If we're talking real-life dictatorships and republics, the latter make much better use of brilliant leaders' talents. In part by not having a power struggle at the end that, on a coin flip, decides if the work survives.
    - ethbr1 2y ago
      In the short or intermediate term? I'd argue that democracy is almost always a roadblock to a great leader's ability to execute their vision quickly and fully. On the other hand, it often wins out in the long run by not losing as much when the inevitable terrible leader comes to power. (As well as providing a pressure release mechanism to prevent populist revolution)
pluc 2y ago
There is nobody left to disagree with him, he made sure of that. Disagreeing with him at this point means he's gonna come after you [1], your job [2] or your reputation [3]. 1. https://ma.tt/2024/10/on-dhh/ https://ma.tt/2024/10/on-dhh/ 2. https://kindness.is/examples/2010/mullenweg-the-coward/ https://kindness.is/examples/2010/mullenweg-the-coward/ 3. https://ma.tt/2024/12/inc-hit-piece/ https://ma.tt/2024/12/inc-hit-piece/
MattDaEskimo 2y ago
Parasocial sympathetic deflection at its finest. This is a childish emperor tantrum, stressing everybody beneath him for petty cause.
- jamestimmins 2y ago
  Respectfully, confidently asserting someone else's mental state or their motives is a mistake. Because there's no way for you to know, it backs you and others into an intellectual corner that is entirely unnecessary and lowers the level of discourse, in addition to being unhelpful when people are experiencing actual psychiatric crises.
gspencley 2y ago
My personal take on this has to do entirely with how the decision to block WP Engine access to WordPress.org, unless they were willing to pay for it, was arrived at. And this is a critical detail that I'm fuzzy on. If anyone has context (even links with further info) I'd be very much appreciative. I have since read the WP Engine complaint. I understand what they are alleging. I'm just not 100% clear on the nitty and gritty details that led there. All I know are the high level about WP Foundation demanding payment from WP Engine. As a matter of principle, I believe very strongly that a creator has the right to set the conditions upon which their creations are disposed of, and that no one is entitled to services provided by others free of charge in perpetuity. If it is the case that WP Engine was costing WordPress.org a lot of money and that they were the single largest consumer of WordPress.org's web services, then I don't think it is unreasonable for WordPress.org to say "Hey, this is not financially viable for us, we think we're going to need either ask that you setup local mirrors, or we can maybe arrange a pay as you go deal." I hear a lot of people express the opinion that Matt seems unhinged and is trying to "extort" money from WP Engine. But without knowing more that seems, to me, like looters and moochers demanding that other people pay out of pocket for things they want or need. I want there to be more to the story than that. And for what it's worth I have little difficulty believing that Matt just went about things in all the wrong ways and could have worked things out without resorts to litigation if he wasn't such a jerk about it. But being a jerk isn't a crime and doesn't forfeit your rights. WordPress.org has to pay for their servers and WP Engine is a for-profit company that is using WordPress.org's services, free of charge, for their own gain. Mutual consideration here seems warranted. So what, specifically, led to WP Foundation choosing to ask WP Engine to pay for the services they are using? I've heard accusations that there has been a feud between the two going back years but if those finer details are buried in that story, then why is Matt / WP Foundation acting unfairly by asking for payment? (Before anyone responds, I understand the Promissory Estoppel theory that forms the legal complaint, I'm asking specifically about peoples' understanding, even if speculative, regarding Matt's motivations).
- ethbr1 2y ago
  Differentiating IP/copyright/code rights and infrastructure hosting is definitely an important aspect of the feud. In a perfect world, open source projects would never use private infrastructure (and would certainly not privilege any particular private infrastructure!). That said, the ability to 'open source' infrastructure (read: have hosting provided by a non-profit or similar attached to the open source project) has always been more difficult (financially, legally, and practically) than simply commiting a license file.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
refulgentis 2y ago
Not a mental breakdown, but, a memento mori for all of us: The problem with success is even when success is a reality, it's effects are temporary. You get hungry even though you have just eaten. The most telling moment for understanding what's going was Matt responding to successful critics by saying they weren't successful enough I can't remember exactly what he said, & too much has happened for me to find it with 5 minutes of Googling. Something like "oh yeah well you only got to $2B valuation and it took 1000 engineers, what do you know" If there is a breakdown here, it's one I've seen before, but wasn't cognizant of until I saw it 100x over at Google, sometimes tragically: you got everything you thought you wanted, but you're bored enough to need a new challenge, but you're not cognizant enough of it to effectively make that choice _before_ your actions show you that you need to. Doesn't help any that it would amount to "backing down" in this scenario, he can't say that now without people thinking he was forced out somehow. When I think about this, I also remember: - the somewhat odd acquisitions over the past few years, Tumblr, that one cross-platform messaging app that got a ton of press for insisting they'd do iMessage....another strong indicator of boredom with the day-to-day, IMHO. - His clear, repeated, focus is on money. It's never in primary focus, but it's always there, in everything lashing out that is publicized. If you're unhappy, and you're not sure why, and you have everything you thought you wanted, one easy thought train to jump on is "the compensation is not commensurate for the work"
- ismail 2y ago
  This is a very interesting take, and I am going to largely agree with you here. It really looks like this may be what is going on. This is really a symptom of a much larger phenomenon, in that a society that values material wealth , and only acknowledges a material reality without realising or recognising the metaphysical reality.
wordofx 2y ago
He has investors to answer to. He has an over evaluation that unless he grows the value of his company he’s screwed. He’s trying to pull in revenue and he’s destroying a competitor to take their customers.
- mfer 2y ago
  According to crunchbase, Automattic has taken just shy of $1B in funding. Yes, that's a B as in billion. I wonder where those investors are on returns on that investment and the kinds of changes they want to get them.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
- terminalbraid 2y ago
  > unless he grows the value of his company he’s screwed What are the consequences, exactly?
  - brendanyounger 2y ago
    I suspect they gave him a timeline to IPO and/or sell or he's kicked out as CEO. His recent actions are those of a man with a deadline and nothing to lose.
    - danudey 2y ago
      Assuming that is the case: WordPress the company only needs to stay stable and valuable until everything goes through; if it burns down after that he's still met his obligations (to an extent).
      - refulgentis 2y ago
        That is narrowly correct and widely incorrect zen question: what is the "everything" that will "go through"? That's the core problem: there's no exit in sight. None
draw_down 2y ago
[dead]
larodi 2y ago
Or perhaps is suffering from realization that there's no free lunch on this planet and sometimes it is paid for with drama and even very very rare one may get to be the one who calls the shots. Question is whether one is in position to pull it up when one needs to take the credit back. He seems do be doing fine, though, perhaps also is having the time of his life, nothing wrong from perspective of other for-profit projects. Wonder who promised this and how was it guaranteed it'd not happen at some point? Besides LLMs be soon spitting 'wordpress retold' with Cursor and all, and he may have just realized it.
ismail 2y ago
If was running a major site that depends on Wordpress , or am an agency that makes use of Wordpress extensively I would be very concerned. Irrespective of who is right/wrong, Matt’s actions come across as rash, irrational , and reactive. Definitely not the type of leader I would want to be leading an open source project I depend on. From a risk analysis perspective, this would make me question if wp is fit for my company. If the ceo/leader can behave in this way , what are the risks he pulls similarly self destructive moves that jeopardises my sites? I am have no bone in this fight, I dropped wp back In 2010, due to the multitude of issues with plugins, themes and security. It was easier(and more secure) to roll an app with django/rails. Though, I think if you are using Wordpress. Either look for alternatives , or look to a fork with better governance.
- akho 2y ago
  If Wordpress no longer receives security updates, tons of sites will have to be migrated. Many are not economically efficient to migrate, and will be lost. Given the scope of that ecosystem, this is an extinction event for the Web.
throwpoaster 2y ago
Stimulants are a heck of a drug.
micromacrofoot 2y ago
he's not wrong about the fears, he's just reacting in a terrible way
hn_throwaway_99 2y ago
I don't think it's a symptom of a mental breakdown. I think it's a symptom of highly successful tech people who, over time, get more enclosed by a "yes-men" bubble and start to think their shit don't stink so much that they then actually start to lose touch with what most of us call "reality". You might call that "a mental breakdown", I call that being an asshole. Over the past 5 years or so, I've start becoming numb to all of the tech leaders who I used to hold in high regard who I now think are just the boring epitome of self-involved douchebags, e.g. Musk and Andreesen, for example. It just looks like garden-variety power intoxication to me.
amyjess 2y ago
I think "breakdown" is the wrong word: he's always been this way. I think he may have Borderline Personality Disorder. The behavior Matt is engaging in here is called "emotional dysregulation", which is characteristic of BPD, and he has a long history of doing it whenever he faces even the slightest criticism. In 2010, he attempted to get Ben Cook fired from his day job for writing an essay criticizing his dual role as head of both Automattic and the Wordpress Foundation. Over the last few years, he has waged a disproportionate war against queer users on Tumblr for lightly criticizing his leadership.
- Implicated 2y ago
  Don't forget the time Matt allegedly attempted to extort the WPEngine CEO into coming to work for him [1] 1: https://www.therepository.email/wp-engine-sues-automattic-and-matt-mullenweg-alleging-abuse-of-power-extortion-and-anti-competitive-behavior https://www.therepository.email/wp-engine-sues-automattic-an...
bsder 2y ago
Why do you assume that he is suffering from a mental breakdown as opposed to someone who tripped into his position and has always been out of his depth? As long as money is flowing, nobody gives a damn how shitty you are. Once the money stops, however ...

dangrossman 2y ago

I don't think it's a mental breakdown, I think this is a (poorly executed) long pivot into Matt's companies having tighter control over the ecosystem and keeping more of the profits from hosting, plugin and theme sales. He's burning down "the community" on purpose. In a couple years, it'll be run more like Shopify, where the theme store and app store only list products that run their billing through Shopify and give Shopify a 15%+ share of all associated revenue.

add-sub-mul-div 2y ago
One reason that Reddit's API changes killing the best clients was so poisonous is that the resulting non-exodus showed other companies that they can take user-hostile actions with impunity. A big enough mass of passive and undiscerning users will stay no matter what. Hence there being more freedom to take a strategy like this.
- llm_trw 2y ago
  Reddit has been user hostile since 2014. It's just that as long as you hurt one part of the community the other parts hate you're fine. The mods are universally hated on reddit and they were the ones most impacted by the changes. The average user either didn't notice or stopped getting automatically banned for joining the wrong subreddits.
  - jjmarr 2y ago
    > The average user... stopped getting automatically banned for joining the wrong subreddits. Still happens, you're just not allowed to talk about it. /r/bannedforbeingjewish (which collated this) is banned,[1] but to give an example, /r/interestingasfuck (13 million subscribers) bans users that are members of /r/Israel.[2] [1] https://www.reddit.com/r/bannedforbeingjewish/ https://www.reddit.com/r/bannedforbeingjewish/ [2] https://archive.is/OkfOY https://archive.is/OkfOY
    - Suppafly 2y ago
      What's weird is the subs that will ban you for simply commenting in another sub, especially for just one comment, even if your comments are contrary to the theme of the sub.
      - encom 2y ago
        When r/thedonald was around, I would debate misconceptions americans had about politics in Denmark from time to time (no we're not socialist). And of course I would get banned left and right (but mostly left), and would get the "you post in thedonald, ergo I win"-line regularly. Reddit was a trash heap then, and it's gotten exponentially worse since. Why anyone go there voluntarily is beyond me. It contains nothing of value.
        zdragnar 2y ago
        If you like British panel shows (or any version of taskmaster) then /r/panelshow is pretty great. Not much chatter, but then again, maybe that's part of the appeal lol.
        echoangle 2y ago
        Tech support for niche issues is pretty good there.
        wink 2y ago
        That subreddit could basically not be further from the ones I frequent. There are some ok cycling ones, relatively low traffic, not many people, good content - and especially not only typical computer nerds.
- pants2 2y ago
  I think Reddit's API changes and more did lead to an Exodus of a good chunk of power users that gave the site more of an identity. But what's worse is the official Reddit clients gamify using Reddit so much that, on the whole, content quality is down significantly, even in the smaller niche subreddits that usually had great stuff. The problem is high quality content isn't profitable, endless scrolling is.
  - gunsle 2y ago
    Very insightful, didn’t think about Reddit’s incentive to promote low effort garbage over quality content
    - Implicated 2y ago
      As someone who has been ingesting a high volume of reddit "content" for the better part of 3 years - the spam/bot problem is _wild_. I've implemented a handful of methods to detect 'networks' of these bots/spammers/karma farming accounts and, from the subreddits I'm monitoring, it's _more than half_ of the total accounts posting to them. This is across subreddits of all types, sizes and topics. Massive subs, regional subs, local subs, they're all completely inundated with these accounts - and these are the ones that make it through Reddit's own spam detection and whatever each subreddit has in place to handle moderation. These are the posts that do go public, more than half of the _accounts_ I've determined are spam/karma farming/bots. It's an even greater proportion of the _posts_ that belong to these accounts. (Thus, there are more spammers than "real" users, and they're posting more than the "real" users) And this is with rather elementary methods of determining "spam" from "real" users/content. Those spammers who aren't being very lazy can pretty easily slide through my filters. (I'm detecting 'duplicates' of images and post titles/account descriptions using perceptual hash/simhash and hamming distance only - I'm rolling out text/image vector embedding based duplicate detection now and the numbers are even worse with this in place but I don't have it properly tuned yet) They're literally just re-posting the same content that successful/high karma accounts have previously posted en masse across as many subreddits as they can find/aren't banned from and it's wildly effective. What's crazy to me is that many of them are in the 6 and 7 digits of karma - obviously spam accounts with > 1,000,000 karma is wild. It seems to me that Reddit has zero interest in controlling this. Some might argue this is confirmed by the lack of moderation tools available to subreddit mods (which was ultimately the motivation of me building this system - but when they changed the API stuff I changed my goals/intention with it).
- duxup 2y ago
  People care about content, apis less so, unfortunately.
- brookst 2y ago
  > undiscerning users will stay no matter what That's one take. Another is: ecosystem partners are often surprised what users actually value. We all like to think that our contributions are critical, but the Reddit example shows a huge disconnect between the value 3P partners thought they were delivering and what users actually valued.
- gamblor956 2y ago
  I've found that the API changes improved the subreddits I was in because it made it harder for spambots to operate. Reddit got away with the changes because ultimately the power users were a tiny fraction of its userbase, and they were using clients that hid the ads so Reddit wasn't making any money from them so Reddit didn't care about their wants.
- radium3d 2y ago
  Reddit is not GPL so while hostile it’s incomparable to WordPress core. The user base of Reddit would have to rewrite from scratch. Wordpress can and will be forked if it comes to it. There are enough businesses relying on it that it would be worth it to re govern it under an alternate name.
- wink 2y ago
  You're making it sound like Reddit was unusable without API/client in the past though. I'd never used a Reddit client before I started using it at all on mobile. I bet a good chunk of users (esp casually browsing, or frequenting exactly one niche subreddit) just used the web. Not saying it wasn't user hostile or sucked, it just doesn't match the experience I had (or when I talked to some people).
forgetfreeman 2y ago
Eh. Aquia tried a similar stunt with Drupal (centralize all the tings at the community's expense) and that hasn't exactly been a rousing success. I don't have a great feel for how dependent upon the larger dev community the WordPress ecosystem is so maybe it'll work for them?
daitangio 2y ago
I fear you are right. Remember they ask $25/monthly for 1 website on pressable, I can run Wordpress open source for 5x month on Linode, and there are ready made installation on docker, digital ocean and so on…
- hobs 2y ago
  That implies you need to dedicate the 5 bucks a month per instance, when you look at how much things are write once and cacheable as heck, you could easily get customers down to pennies per instance per month.
- shiftpgdn 2y ago
  Pressable includes support, global caching, and a bunch of other things you won't get on a $5/month VPS. Also not everyone wants to play system administrator 7 days a week to keep their server from getting hijacked or nuked.
  - debesyla 2y ago
    True, but shared hosting providers (like hostinger) offers basically the same, but for cheaper and no pricing per website, even on cheaper plans you can fit five or more sites in. Of course, it doesn't matter in the end - as long as users have ability to choose a hosting there will be cheaper and "better" options. Shopyfing wordpress would be worse...
    - whycome 2y ago
      There’s value to users in using a service that’s the same as the software. Trust is worth it to consumers. It’s why many still prefer to take their cars to the dealer rather than an Indy shop
      - grogenaut 2y ago
        I've had 3 cars totaled by dealers and none totaled by indy shops. One was actually messed up by them beyond repair. One was messed up and they wanted more to fix it well beyond the replace cost. The final one just wanted well beyond the replace cost, and I got it fixed for much much less at an indy shop. Just find a good indy shop. there's a great one 2 blocks from my house at a gas station. discusses all repairs with you, good on preventive maintenance, 1/4 the price of a dealer. Will tell you what repairs you actually need to do and what you don't. Also easier to schedule and pick up and drop off. I have to wait at the mega dealer near me like 15-30 minutes at drop off and pick up. At least the toyota one will let you defer your car wash instead of waiting for it longer. At the gas station I drop the car in the lot and drop the keys in a mailbox. For pickup I go in any day till 10 and pay like I'm buying an energy drink, grab the keys and walk out to the lot to grab it.
chrismsimpson 2y ago
Perhaps more indicative of late stage capitalism where rent seekers try to extract more and more value and consolidate more and more power.
- labster 2y ago
  Late stage capitalism is almost indistinguishable from a mental disorder, though.
- ahmeneeroe-v2 2y ago
  How is this unique to "late stage capitalism"? That same sentence can be used mad lib style for any human endevor. >Perhaps more indicative of ________ where rent seekers try to extract more and more value and consolidate more and more power Feudal Europe Roman patrician class British Raj Ming dynasty bureaucrats Latin American drug cartels etc Point being that the "late stage capitalism" people lack rigor and don't add to the conversation
  - JBiserkov 2y ago
    Don't argue with me about definitions, I'm trying to explain what I think the GP meant and why `the "late stage capitalism" people lack rigor and don't add to the conversation` is incorrect. Capitalism-imperialism: a system based on endless growth and expansionism, where the proletariat in the imperial core is pacified by the crumbs the capitalist give it from the plunder of the colonies; the crumbs also allow the proletariat to buy the goods and services, thus maintaining demand, sort of. Late stage capitalism-imperialism: the entire planet in conquered, the "low-hanging" resources have been consumed, there is nowhere left to expand, except inward, so the capitalists start cannibalizing the proletariat in the imperial core by giving it less and less crumbs, in order to achieve even higher rates of profit; to remain in power, while the masses see their quality of life decline / starve, they need to consolidate more and more power. More than the absolute monarchs ever had. > the entire planet in conquered, the "low-hanging" resources have been consumed that same sentence canNOT be used to describe any human endeavor in any other epoch. We are in the anthropocene now.
TeMPOraL 2y ago
You may be right. Come to think of it, until this drama, the only "community" I believed exists around Wordpress is the network of small businesses specialized in Wordpress hosting, maintenance and consulting for other small businesses. I personally know someone running a sole proprietorship, whose entire income over past ~decade came from such Wordpress jobs. It might be that this will be the only "community" that remains going forward.
- citizenpaul 2y ago
  The only interaction i have with wordpress is sleazy small consultancies selling it to clueless mgmt as the magic solution to all their problems. I really have never had a positive impression of wordpress due to this. I can't even remember all the times I've been suckerpunched with "hey we hired these people to implement <magic wordpress> and its not going so well. They tell us its because our systems are bad and our employees are not doing things right. Can you get with them and see what the <Insert Manager speak for blames you> seems to be....? ME: The problem is they are some hack shop that "sold you" and bit off more than they could chew and they also don't have a clue about systems integrations. MGMT: Nope the problem is our employees that have been working here getting "Exceeds expectations" on reviews that are the problem. We have no explanation for why though... So we are hiring McKinsey to come in and do a department evaluation to find out.
kedean 2y ago
He's doing it in a way that feels suspiciously like a breakdown to me. The latest "we're restricting our contributions to 45 hours a week to match WPEngine" is the the reaction of a college student who is mad at their lab partner, not of an establish business that helped build the internet as we know it.
- satvikpendem 2y ago
  Lots of executives at big companies can be petty though, it's nothing new when one is in power and surrounds themselves with yes men. It doesn't mean they're necessarily having a breakdown at all.
  - kibwen 2y ago
    What you've observed, quite accurately, is that our bar for emotional intelligence when it comes to corporate executives is the same that we expect from ten-year olds.
    - throwpoaster 2y ago
      Respectfully, it's not. Serious businesses take EQ seriously.
      - technion 2y ago
        This feels very "no true scotsman" to me. It's accurate if none of the large places I've worked are "serious".
      - Nectar0516 2y ago
        At best, "serious" businesses (which I take to mean large, successful ones) pretend to take EQ seriously.
        throwpoaster 2y ago
        Engaging with reality as directly as possible is important in business. Emotions are a part of reality, usually a signal about social dynamics. At the higher levels of serious companies — by which I mean ones trying to win in the market, regardless of size - managers and executives regularly receive training about this. I can’t say more because this is my alt, but: “executives are childish”, “executives are psychopaths”, etc. are very common, often incorrect narratives. If anything executives should be straightforward and simple. To return to topic: something is going seriously sideways with Matt, and I wish him the best.
legitster 2y ago
One thing to keep in mind, WordPress being open source was an afterthought. It inherited a GPL from b2/cafelog. If Matt woke up one morning and decided he wanted to make WordPress closed source, he couldn't. But what he could do is force everyone to pay a license fee for the name, and anyone who did not pay he publicly makes hell for them. You could also pretend to encourage them to fork, knowing full well they would be bound by a GPL just like him. This is actually a very successful business strategy and even has a name: racketeering.
- lupire 2y ago
  Using the GPL is not racketeering. Why would any user expect more rights than a contributor?
- satvikpendem 2y ago
  I don't understand your point about forking, yes they'd have the GPL but so what? They can control their fork from then on, it doesn't matter if they have to continue open sourcing contributions, in fact it'd be preferable to whatever Matt is doing.
  - shaded2 2y ago
    I think you underestimate the work it takes to maintain and more importantly grow such a large open source project. If wp engine can barely contribute today, what are the chances they want to take on the whole thing. Nope they just want to get rich off open source. That's understandable , they are a for profit after all. But at what point does it make sense to give back in terms of either money or time to make improvements to the ecosystem that you depend on. I agree with Matt's ideals but not the actions. The reality is theres not a whole lot he can do without looking like spoilt kid taking his ball away from the game.
- johannes1234321 2y ago
  He drives the project long enough that probably no b2 code remains. He could have prepared and take a contributor agreement or some other measures to allow relicensing. Question however is, whether auch a scheme would have made WordPress successful, or if it thrives from the community, where many assumed that everybody plays on the same field via GPL.
vasco 2y ago
I think you may have a point about what will happen, but that can happen at the same time as a mental breakdown. How do you justify something like this https://techcrunch.com/2024/12/17/pineapple-on-pizza-is-delicious-and-if-you-disagree-you-cant-log-in-to-wordpress-org/ https://techcrunch.com/2024/12/17/pineapple-on-pizza-is-deli... if you only believe in the power play? How does this fit in?
- harikb 2y ago
  Here is an alternate possibility 1. They introduced a checkbox for "users to confirm that they are not affiliated with WP Engine" 2. A court ordered Automattic to reverse course 3. Developer thought it was easy to quickly just change the text rather than make code changes. Let us not say people are crazy when there are alternate narratives
  - lupire 2y ago
    That's likely to corrupt the database backend, which now appears to store old "non WP Engine" affirmations in the same location as new "pineapple pizza" affirmations. How will they be able to distinguish?
    - LocalPCGuy 2y ago
      You're assuming they actually care to distinguish. But real answer, barring a brief period where some users may get a cached version, they can likely just use the date of change to determine before and after if necessary.
    - nathansherburn 2y ago
      I don't think the purpose of the checkbox was to collect useful data but an any case storing it as a date would probably solve the issue.
    - lolinder 2y ago
      No, the server-visible name has changed.
  - deleted 2y ago
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
Nectar0516 2y ago
I would hope that this would cause more people to realize that allowing total control of the things you use to be centralized in one person (or business) is bad, but well... quite similar things have happened to plenty of other open source projects before.
MrSkelter 2y ago
There is no “we” here. It’s a man making arbitrary decisions about pineapple on pizza. There is no plan and the watch and drawn out nature is indicative of someone reacting to events rather than implementing a plan. I have 20 years in WP and B2. This is tragic. He needs to be removed or the platform will die making a huge repository of knowledge valueless.

MattGaiser 2y ago

> because of some valuation drop or being short on money. Why is that hard to believe? People have done much worse for much less money.

wahnfrieden 2y ago
People would rather believe their leaders broke their brain than to accept that their power is wielded over us for selfish personal gain

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

simple10 2y ago

I feel for him and the people in his wake. Benevolent dictators of open source are great for productivity until benevolence gives way to malevolence. At this point, if he stepped down it would be seen as giving in. So highly unlikely until the legal dust settles a bit. I also agree with other commenters that it's not a mental breakdown but more of a poorly executed strategy that's been in the works for awhile. To take Wordpress more into a closed source hybrid ecosystem. And at this point, anything Matt does in favor of Automattic's business plan will blow up on social. My bet is this will continue for another 6 months at least until Automattic's revenue increases or flatlines. But yeah, I'm curious about the mental toll when founders go through these types of hyper public events. The startup world needs a lot more discussion and guidance for mental health.

ethbr1 2y ago
> Benevolent dictators of open source are great for productivity until benevolence gives way to malevolence. Autocracy is more efficient, with the best leaders. Democracy is more stable, with the worst leaders. The suboptimal cases are autocracy with bad leaders or democracy with good leaders. I think it's also pretty common that autocratic leaders go badly quickly. The same focus and dedication that drove them also makes it unlikely they'll suddenly decide to step away cleanly. Instead, they'll decide that everyone else is wrong, they're the ones that really put in all the work, {insert rationalization here}, and fight change.
- JumpCrisscross 2y ago
  > The suboptimal cases are autocracy with bad leaders or democracy with good leaders If we're talking real-life dictatorships and republics, the latter make much better use of brilliant leaders' talents. In part by not having a power struggle at the end that, on a coin flip, decides if the work survives.
  - ethbr1 2y ago
    In the short or intermediate term? I'd argue that democracy is almost always a roadblock to a great leader's ability to execute their vision quickly and fully. On the other hand, it often wins out in the long run by not losing as much when the inevitable terrible leader comes to power. (As well as providing a pressure release mechanism to prevent populist revolution)

pluc 2y ago

There is nobody left to disagree with him, he made sure of that. Disagreeing with him at this point means he's gonna come after you [1], your job [2] or your reputation [3]. 1. https://ma.tt/2024/10/on-dhh/ https://ma.tt/2024/10/on-dhh/ 2. https://kindness.is/examples/2010/mullenweg-the-coward/ https://kindness.is/examples/2010/mullenweg-the-coward/ 3. https://ma.tt/2024/12/inc-hit-piece/ https://ma.tt/2024/12/inc-hit-piece/

MattDaEskimo 2y ago

Parasocial sympathetic deflection at its finest. This is a childish emperor tantrum, stressing everybody beneath him for petty cause.

jamestimmins 2y ago
Respectfully, confidently asserting someone else's mental state or their motives is a mistake. Because there's no way for you to know, it backs you and others into an intellectual corner that is entirely unnecessary and lowers the level of discourse, in addition to being unhelpful when people are experiencing actual psychiatric crises.

gspencley 2y ago

My personal take on this has to do entirely with how the decision to block WP Engine access to WordPress.org, unless they were willing to pay for it, was arrived at. And this is a critical detail that I'm fuzzy on. If anyone has context (even links with further info) I'd be very much appreciative. I have since read the WP Engine complaint. I understand what they are alleging. I'm just not 100% clear on the nitty and gritty details that led there. All I know are the high level about WP Foundation demanding payment from WP Engine. As a matter of principle, I believe very strongly that a creator has the right to set the conditions upon which their creations are disposed of, and that no one is entitled to services provided by others free of charge in perpetuity. If it is the case that WP Engine was costing WordPress.org a lot of money and that they were the single largest consumer of WordPress.org's web services, then I don't think it is unreasonable for WordPress.org to say "Hey, this is not financially viable for us, we think we're going to need either ask that you setup local mirrors, or we can maybe arrange a pay as you go deal." I hear a lot of people express the opinion that Matt seems unhinged and is trying to "extort" money from WP Engine. But without knowing more that seems, to me, like looters and moochers demanding that other people pay out of pocket for things they want or need. I want there to be more to the story than that. And for what it's worth I have little difficulty believing that Matt just went about things in all the wrong ways and could have worked things out without resorts to litigation if he wasn't such a jerk about it. But being a jerk isn't a crime and doesn't forfeit your rights. WordPress.org has to pay for their servers and WP Engine is a for-profit company that is using WordPress.org's services, free of charge, for their own gain. Mutual consideration here seems warranted. So what, specifically, led to WP Foundation choosing to ask WP Engine to pay for the services they are using? I've heard accusations that there has been a feud between the two going back years but if those finer details are buried in that story, then why is Matt / WP Foundation acting unfairly by asking for payment? (Before anyone responds, I understand the Promissory Estoppel theory that forms the legal complaint, I'm asking specifically about peoples' understanding, even if speculative, regarding Matt's motivations).

ethbr1 2y ago
Differentiating IP/copyright/code rights and infrastructure hosting is definitely an important aspect of the feud. In a perfect world, open source projects would never use private infrastructure (and would certainly not privilege any particular private infrastructure!). That said, the ability to 'open source' infrastructure (read: have hosting provided by a non-profit or similar attached to the open source project) has always been more difficult (financially, legally, and practically) than simply commiting a license file.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

refulgentis 2y ago

Not a mental breakdown, but, a memento mori for all of us: The problem with success is even when success is a reality, it's effects are temporary. You get hungry even though you have just eaten. The most telling moment for understanding what's going was Matt responding to successful critics by saying they weren't successful enough I can't remember exactly what he said, & too much has happened for me to find it with 5 minutes of Googling. Something like "oh yeah well you only got to $2B valuation and it took 1000 engineers, what do you know" If there is a breakdown here, it's one I've seen before, but wasn't cognizant of until I saw it 100x over at Google, sometimes tragically: you got everything you thought you wanted, but you're bored enough to need a new challenge, but you're not cognizant enough of it to effectively make that choice _before_ your actions show you that you need to. Doesn't help any that it would amount to "backing down" in this scenario, he can't say that now without people thinking he was forced out somehow. When I think about this, I also remember: - the somewhat odd acquisitions over the past few years, Tumblr, that one cross-platform messaging app that got a ton of press for insisting they'd do iMessage....another strong indicator of boredom with the day-to-day, IMHO. - His clear, repeated, focus is on money. It's never in primary focus, but it's always there, in everything lashing out that is publicized. If you're unhappy, and you're not sure why, and you have everything you thought you wanted, one easy thought train to jump on is "the compensation is not commensurate for the work"

ismail 2y ago
This is a very interesting take, and I am going to largely agree with you here. It really looks like this may be what is going on. This is really a symptom of a much larger phenomenon, in that a society that values material wealth , and only acknowledges a material reality without realising or recognising the metaphysical reality.

wordofx 2y ago

He has investors to answer to. He has an over evaluation that unless he grows the value of his company he’s screwed. He’s trying to pull in revenue and he’s destroying a competitor to take their customers.

mfer 2y ago
According to crunchbase, Automattic has taken just shy of $1B in funding. Yes, that's a B as in billion. I wonder where those investors are on returns on that investment and the kinds of changes they want to get them.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
terminalbraid 2y ago
> unless he grows the value of his company he’s screwed What are the consequences, exactly?
- brendanyounger 2y ago
  I suspect they gave him a timeline to IPO and/or sell or he's kicked out as CEO. His recent actions are those of a man with a deadline and nothing to lose.
  - danudey 2y ago
    Assuming that is the case: WordPress the company only needs to stay stable and valuable until everything goes through; if it burns down after that he's still met his obligations (to an extent).
    - refulgentis 2y ago
      That is narrowly correct and widely incorrect zen question: what is the "everything" that will "go through"? That's the core problem: there's no exit in sight. None

draw_down 2y ago

[dead]

larodi 2y ago

Or perhaps is suffering from realization that there's no free lunch on this planet and sometimes it is paid for with drama and even very very rare one may get to be the one who calls the shots. Question is whether one is in position to pull it up when one needs to take the credit back. He seems do be doing fine, though, perhaps also is having the time of his life, nothing wrong from perspective of other for-profit projects. Wonder who promised this and how was it guaranteed it'd not happen at some point? Besides LLMs be soon spitting 'wordpress retold' with Cursor and all, and he may have just realized it.

ismail 2y ago

If was running a major site that depends on Wordpress , or am an agency that makes use of Wordpress extensively I would be very concerned. Irrespective of who is right/wrong, Matt’s actions come across as rash, irrational , and reactive. Definitely not the type of leader I would want to be leading an open source project I depend on. From a risk analysis perspective, this would make me question if wp is fit for my company. If the ceo/leader can behave in this way , what are the risks he pulls similarly self destructive moves that jeopardises my sites? I am have no bone in this fight, I dropped wp back In 2010, due to the multitude of issues with plugins, themes and security. It was easier(and more secure) to roll an app with django/rails. Though, I think if you are using Wordpress. Either look for alternatives , or look to a fork with better governance.

akho 2y ago
If Wordpress no longer receives security updates, tons of sites will have to be migrated. Many are not economically efficient to migrate, and will be lost. Given the scope of that ecosystem, this is an extinction event for the Web.

throwpoaster 2y ago

Stimulants are a heck of a drug.

micromacrofoot 2y ago

he's not wrong about the fears, he's just reacting in a terrible way

hn_throwaway_99 2y ago

I don't think it's a symptom of a mental breakdown. I think it's a symptom of highly successful tech people who, over time, get more enclosed by a "yes-men" bubble and start to think their shit don't stink so much that they then actually start to lose touch with what most of us call "reality". You might call that "a mental breakdown", I call that being an asshole. Over the past 5 years or so, I've start becoming numb to all of the tech leaders who I used to hold in high regard who I now think are just the boring epitome of self-involved douchebags, e.g. Musk and Andreesen, for example. It just looks like garden-variety power intoxication to me.

amyjess 2y ago

I think "breakdown" is the wrong word: he's always been this way. I think he may have Borderline Personality Disorder. The behavior Matt is engaging in here is called "emotional dysregulation", which is characteristic of BPD, and he has a long history of doing it whenever he faces even the slightest criticism. In 2010, he attempted to get Ben Cook fired from his day job for writing an essay criticizing his dual role as head of both Automattic and the Wordpress Foundation. Over the last few years, he has waged a disproportionate war against queer users on Tumblr for lightly criticizing his leadership.

Implicated 2y ago
Don't forget the time Matt allegedly attempted to extort the WPEngine CEO into coming to work for him [1] 1: https://www.therepository.email/wp-engine-sues-automattic-and-matt-mullenweg-alleging-abuse-of-power-extortion-and-anti-competitive-behavior https://www.therepository.email/wp-engine-sues-automattic-an...

bsder 2y ago

Why do you assume that he is suffering from a mental breakdown as opposed to someone who tripped into his position and has always been out of his depth? As long as money is flowing, nobody gives a damn how shitty you are. Once the money stops, however ...