7 ms·
HMD Key – A lightweight, affordable smartphone
- mjd 2y agoThis sounds great, except I don't live in those places. Is there a similar product that works in the USA?
- TazeTSchnitzel 2y agoThere are an endless number of budget phones with essentially identical specs to this, yes.
- TazeTSchnitzel 2y agoYet another phone with Android Go edition, four very slow Cortex-A53 cores (https://www.unisoc.com/en_us/home/TZNSJ-9832E-7 https://www.unisoc.com/en_us/home/TZNSJ-9832E-7), 2GB of RAM (https://www.hmd.com/en_int/hmd-key/specs?sku=1GS009MPG3001 https://www.hmd.com/en_int/hmd-key/specs?sku=1GS009MPG3001), 2GB of “virtual RAM” (swap space)… Destined to become immediate e-waste like all the other phones in its class. Wanna bet that it can only run 32-bit apps despite having a 64-bit CPU, because it's so memory-starved? That's extremely common in this segment. The “Upgrade without overspending” pitch is rather bizarre considering that the specs on low-end phones seemingly do not change. Five years ago they were selling four very slow Cortex-A53 cores with 2GB of RAM, today they are selling four very slow Cortex-A53 cores with 2GB of RAM, in five years the phone manufacturers will have somehow continued twisting Google's hand to be able to continue selling four very slow Cortex-A53 cores with 2GB of RAM.
- amarcheschi 2y agoI truly feel sorry for those that will use this phone for anything that is not just calling and writing sms. I've had relatives with slow phones, and especially if old and not tech savvy, they click, wait, click again because nothing happened. Then, the feedback of the first click arrives, but the 2nd click will now click something different because what is being displayed has now changed. So they go back, but it's so slow they have to wait and press back again (...). And so, the eternal cycle of slow mobile phones restarts
- TeMPOraL 2y ago> I truly feel sorry for those that will use this phone for anything that is not just calling and writing sms. Phones in this class will freeze every other time they're receiving a call, so they're hardly suitable for even that. In my eyes, these phones should be labeled as not suitable for advertised use and shouldn't be allowed to be sold in civilized world, as to protect the poorest from psychological damage they can cause. I'm serious. My first Android phone was like that, and it's depression through thousand papercuts.
- ZiiS 2y agoFour cores, each with more computing power then existed in the known universe when I was born.
- hooli_gan 2y agoExecuting more bloat, than all of the code that existed when you were born
- jeroenhd 2y agoMy experience with HMD ("Nokia") phones has been that they've come quite bloat-free from the factory. There are the Google apps (because no normal Android user outside of maybe China would buy a phone without those) but other than that the ROM has always been very clean. If you load it up with Tiktok and Instagram and whatever else likes to run in the background all the time, it'll certainly be bogged down, but HMD phones themselves are normally clean when you buy them* *=unless you buy them through a carrier which customises the OS, like people in the US often seem to choose for some reason. But that's because the carrier loads those phones with bloat, not because HMD does.
- hooli_gan 2y agoInteresting, which HMD models have you used and have you used Spotify or Youtube with bluetooth headphones on them? I wonder how they perform.
- TazeTSchnitzel 2y agoThe Cortex-A53 is certainly a respectable processor within its design constraints. It is from 2012, and I think it is either the smallest or the second-smallest implementation of AArch64 that Arm have designed. It is very power-efficient, and that was the design goal. You definitely can make an SoC that only has “efficiency” cores, and it can even run Android, but putting it in a smartphone indicates that pure manufacturing cost is your only design consideration.
- mherkender 2y agoThe cores aren't slow so much as software was designed for more powerful devices. It's a shame, really.
- bobmcnamara 2y agoLike a raspberry pi 3?
- usrusr 2y agoWhat happened to RAM use? Ignoring gaming (which a large sunbset of the market never ever does), phones these days are doing exactly the same things they were doing back when 512MB was considered a generous amount of RAM. It feels as if Google deliberately ended all RAM frugality in platform updates to get ever bigger ad delivery machines into pockets.
- jeroenhd 2y agoMost of my phone's RAM is going towards Firefox and maybe a few messengers that stay resident. The rest is all cache just in case I want to switch back to an app I opened yesterday. Running Android on 512MB is a thing of the past but if websites could stop bloating themselves up with Javascript modules and megabytes of images, this phone would probably be fine as a daily driver for someone who doesn't use their phone all that often.
- pbhjpbhj 2y agoHMD is a mobile phone brand; "Key" is a line of phones. I thought it was something like a YubiKey, but it appears instead to be a really cheap phone running Android Go.
- datenhorst 2y agoHMD is Nokia's successor-in-spirit
- CalRobert 2y agoSeemed like a successor in all but spirit when I owned one of their godawful pieces of crap. I weep for the old Nokia.
- robocat 2y agoThe HMD phones I bought before 2020 were really great (e.g. 7+) - I kept needing to replace because got stolen or I broke screen. After Covid I bought an underpowered HMD which was really terrible - maybe they had trouble sourcing good CPUs? With Android I find my choices are either buy a cheap shitty phone, or pay too much. It's hard to find a good value Android. At least the battery can last 2 days on some Androids (my favourite feature).
- 0x073 2y ago7 plus was really great
- bossyTeacher 2y agoHMD is jut a random company that bought the Nokia brand. They are entirely different companies AFAIK.
- skrebbel 2y agoHMD was founded by a bunch of ex-Nokia people. They're based in Finland, like Nokia. I assume plenty ex-Nokia people work there now, would love to know how true this is if anyone knows.
- noncoml 2y agoAndroid? Meh…
- zweifuss 2y agoAndroid Go, actually. Teams, Slack, etc. won't work well (or at all). WhatsApp, Skype only in a limited mode.
- hddherman 2y ago> Another key area this device hasn’t cut back on is its security. Quarterly security updates for 2 years² will help keep everything safe and sound. That's a criminally short support period, and a great way to produce even more e-waste.
- politelemon 2y agoExpensive devices turns to ewaste in shorter time frames for reasons other than support. This is a poor metric to pick on.
- TeMPOraL 2y agoDevices? Yes. Expensive? Only if you fail in picking them. Buy an iPhone or something. I'm in Android camp, but I only buy flagships (after some bad experiences with cheap end of the phone spectrum) specifically because I can rely on them to work for 3+ years, getting updates over that period, and importantly, still being performant enough relative to contemporary software as to not be annoying to use. I agree with GP here. In the current security-obsessed zeitgeist, 2 years of security updates is criminally low, pretty much designed to generate e-waste.
- f1shy 2y agoIn my experience, I had to give about 100/yr to havea relatively good device foor my needs. I could choose to buy a cheap thing every year, or 600 every 6; for similar Performance. I prefer to change device no so often. 2 years is just too short.
- microtonal 2y agoSomething like a Samsung A55 will also get 5 years of security updates. This line usually converges to around 300 Euros halfway the yearly product release cycle. There are cheaper Samsung models with long support periods, but last time I looked, they would only get quarterly security updates. The Pixel _a_ line usually also has pretty good pricing, but they tend to have weird issues/bugs. (I'm an iPhone user, but just to point out that there are also more affordable options with longer support periods.)
- KeplerBoy 2y agoweird targeted regions. I thought those phones would be mostly sold in the poorest of the poor regions, not the richest nations of the Commonwealth.
- hulitu 2y ago> not the richest nations of the Commonwealth. Aren't there any poor in Britain ?
- KeplerBoy 2y agoSure, but I'd guess even poor people allocate slightly more money than that for smartphones.
- fuzzfactor 2y ago>just £59 from the 2nd of January in the UK, Australia, and the New Zealand That's a pretty low price but outside of UK and AU, only available in the "newest" of Zealands ;)
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- manojlds 2y agoMaybe a first phone for kids?
- CalRobert 2y agoA dumbphone might be a better choice if you don't want them to turn in to screenkids.
- whitehexagon 2y agoMy recent hmd/nokia disappointment was a flip dumb-phone. Annoyingly it has a facebook app that cant be deleted, and some games that auto-charge your phone bill after a few plays. If they really try to ban smart-phones for kids, then we are going to need a better definition of a dumb-phone. Bring back the old Nokia!
- Retr0id 2y agoIt's a shame we haven't figured out how to do "modular" smartphones where the motherboard can be swapped out, like with framework laptops. I'd be happy with a phone from 10 years ago on all axes except CPU/GPU/RAM and corresponding security updates.
- suprjami 2y agoGoogle's Project Ara was this. A modular smartphone where you could swap any component out with plug-in modules. I met a Google employee at a conference in 2016 and he let me play with his Ara for a bit. It felt fantastic. I'd have bought one in an instant. Google cancelled the project. I do wonder about the longevity of such a device. I still have all my Android phones from the very first HTC G1 and anything with a removable component feels pretty rattly now. When Nokia 5110 were on the market and you'd owned one for a while, you needed to pack the battery with double sided tape so the contacts didn't disconnect, causing the phone to power off. I guess that sort of thing is why Google binned the idea.
- Retr0id 2y agoI'm envisaging something slightly less plug-and-play, more like "take your phone into the shop to get it upgraded" - which would allow for things like maintaining the waterproof sealing we've come to expect from modern phones.
- quitit 2y agoI recall Nokias which eventually let even a modest drop send the battery off in one direction and the phone in another. With the 7110-style nokias turn into e-sprinklers flinging the sliding cover off too.
- pzo 2y agoI liked the concept for also the reason that such 2nd hand market for modules would be great for DIY and arduino and raspberry pi like projects. Such phones could have a second life for other purposes or at least some parts could have second life. They mentioned some difficulty and bulkiness but then I wish such concept has been applied for tablets that we change less often and have more space.
- commandersaki 2y agoStrange to see they're marketing virtual memory swap space like it's a good thing.
- unsupp0rted 2y agoJust press the "boost" button any time you want your phone to not be terrible. I'm not kidding- that's on their landing page.
- gdjskslsuhkso 2y agoI do miss having a turbo button on my computer. I wonder if they plan to monetize the boost button.
- mkl 2y agoAnd like it's an innovation. They also have this footnote: > Using memory extension (virtual RAM) requires enough storage space. To protect the storage, memory extension is automatically and permanently disabled once 90% of the usage limit is reached. So you get to 90% (of 32GB) one time, and swap no longer works even if you clear space?
- YoooThere 2y agoI wouldn't want to use this as my main device, but I might get one just to use as the display for a DJI controller. At the moment I'm using an old Samsung S8 with a burnt-in screen and no updates.
- seanalltogether 2y agoI tried a relatively cheap nokia android phone a couple years ago and I'll never do it again. The camera would do this thing where you would take a photo, the screen would show that the shutter had snapped, but your actual photo would be whatever was happening a second later. I ended up with 10% of my photos being a blurry picture of the floor.
- saidinesh5 2y agoYup.. and in some of the cheaper phones I have tried out, there was a mismatch with camera flash timing and when the phone actually captured the image.. it didn't happen in the main camera app but happened in every other app.. so most of my night pictures were just black... It would have been nicer if there were fewer android phones around so the manufacturers actually spend time testing them out..
- brightball 2y agoI think they licensed the brand out to another manufacturer.
- bean-weevil 2y agoYes, they licensed it to HMD. Lol
- jpc0 2y agoI think the issue with these low end devices are that the duopoly on operating systems makes it impossible to develop a competing operating system that get's any traction. I am 100% sure you, as a manufacturer, could develop a very lightweight shim over a linux or BSD kernel that has significantly better performance than Android does. It would however be a universal flop regardless of how useable it is since critical apps like WhatsApp/Telegram/banking would not get ported to that platform ever. That effectively leaves you with needing a capable web browser and well... Even Firefox with every form of adblocker enable regularly chews up 2-3 GB of ram for me, at least on desktop. And building a competitive web browser to Chromium is an absurd endeavour for a cheap cell manufacturer.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- vhguru 2y agoThey tried with Sailfish, which is the spiritual successor of the excellent N95 OS, but alas not sufficient traction.
- bsimpson 2y ago"They" is an interesting choice here. Two companies spun out of the wreckage of Microsoft's Nokia takeover: HMD and Jolla. HMD was Nokia's old hardware division, and they're making this device. Jolla was the software division, and they're making Sailfish.
- BirAdam 2y agoI don’t think this would actually be too hard. Ladybird browser is making progress everyday. A browser is harder than an OS. As for market adoption, it would take someone with a ton of money to bribe device manufacturers and press the way that Microsoft used to do. So, I wouldn’t say it’s hard. Getting the right people involved would be the hard bit. How many S tier devs in the browser space are ready to gamble their futures? How many S tier OSdevs? How many completely batty billionaires are there?
- 43920 2y ago
- scrlk 2y agoProbably better value to buy a used or refurbished phone, rather than a new phone at the extreme end of the budget category.
- quitit 2y agoAt this level of saturation it's not unusual to receive a pretty good one when a friend, family member or coworker upgrades. Giving the device further life and keeping it out of eWaste. In my opinion these bottom-tier phones are just eWaste.
- Havoc 2y agoWhy is a budget android phone the #2 post on hn? This doesn't feel organic at all.
- hulitu 2y ago> Why is a budget android phone the #2 post on hn? Not everybody pays more than 200€ on an RCE device. > This doesn't feel organic at all. I think the plastic is an organic material. /s
- voytec 2y agoLow-end phone with "AI Camera" on the cover? Yeah, no.
- throwaway519 2y agoA Redmi 13C with 6G RAM (+2G), Octacore 2.2 GHz, 5G, costs £65 new. Charger included. That's a budget phone. Seems a better bang all around for the extra £6.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- microtonal 2y agoBut probably even worse update-wise and most likely backdoored? Security should not be exclusive to the rich.
- ReptileMan 2y agoIs that a satire or parody site? Definitely feels like it.
- Tepix 2y agoThis is a phone with a limited version of Android (Android Go) and only 2GB of RAM which isn't enough. It has a slow CPU, it lacks 5G connectivity which is more and more important just to have good reception. It comes with at most 2 years of security updates. It has 32GB of storage which quickly fill up if you take pictures every now and then. If you can afford it, get something like the Samsung A52 5G with 7 years of updates and 6GB or 8GB of RAM. If that's too expensive, get one from the list when it's on sale: https://skinflint.co.uk/?cat=umtsover&v=e&hloc=uk&sort=p&bl1_id=30&xf=10063_14.0%7E2607_6144%7E3229_2024 https://skinflint.co.uk/?cat=umtsover&v=e&hloc=uk&sort=p&bl1... These are recently released phones with 6GB RAM or more and Android 14+ starting at £99. 6GB of RAM means you can use your phone for a couple of years without it getting super slow.
- saagarjha 2y ago2 GB of swap. I don’t think RAM was mentioned.
- _heimdall 2y agoIts limited for sure, but that may not be a problem for everyone. I've been using a Cat S22 flip phone without any real issue. It has a Snapdragon 215 and 2GB of RAM. Don't get me wrong, the S22 is limited for sure and that's part of what I use it for (I need a rugged device to carry around our land, I don't need a glass slab). Android is noticeably slower than a more recent Pixel device but its totally usable.
- thisislife2 2y ago
- cyp0633 2y agoA Redmi 14C offers 4GB RAM, MTK G81 SoC, for 499 CNY (about 66 EUR, slightly more expensive than the HMD one) in China. It would be a strong competitor if it's that cheap in Europe as well, but sadly no. The price is almost doubled. That said, it's still a phone you shouldn't buy if you can afford a better one.
- lifestyleguru 2y agoMy current smartphone has "cloud camera". I'll wait for smartphone with "blockchain camera", thanks.
- xigou 2y ago[dead]
- throwaway55479 2y agoAffordable yes, but not sustainable. FYI, You can now have 6 years of major android upgrades for 200$ with the A16 [1] [1] https://www.gsmarena.com/compare.php3?idPhone1=13346&idPhone2=13605#diff- https://www.gsmarena.com/compare.php3?idPhone1=13346&idPhone...
- wormik 2y agoI don't understand why people who are clearly not the ICP have the urge to comment. I think that market will prove whether it's a good thing.
- szundi 2y agoActually this is a place that is open to anyone's opinion - and that makes sense. People from border areas with the one of the discussion can give alternative insights. Of course digging relevant ones out of 1k comments are a challenge.
- beefnugs 2y agoI don't often trust tech opinions, but when I do, it is those from the insane clown posse
- spintin 2y ago[dead]
- Retr0id 2y agoI suspect most people here aren't going to daily-drive one of these, but there's another use - testing how your app runs on low-end devices.
- hulitu 2y ago> testing how your app runs on low-end devices. That's what Play Store is for.
- butz 2y agoWhere did all small budget phones had gone? I don't need a tablet that does not fit anywhere and has huge camera bump that does not lie flat on the table.