28 ms·

Be a property owner and not a renter on the internet

330 points by dend 2y ago

muglug 2y ago
This is good advice for people whose livelihood depends on the attention of anonymous strangers. For everyone else, it’s probably ok to ignore.
- pcloadletter_ 2y ago
  It's also just kind of cool and fun to hack together a personal website
  - dend 2y ago
    Totally. If I would tell 10-year-old me that I have my own website on my own domain, it would be seen as a shocking development. I find it really cool to be able to have a corner of the internet that is just mine.
    - hackernewds 2y ago
      This is practically everyone's Facebook Instagram Whatsapp Airbnb anything at all profile already
    - arminiusreturns 2y ago
      I still get a rush with a new server on the internet!!! (especially my latest host: 12 core new gen epyc instances with 48G RAM.)
  - anarwhal 2y ago
    Yes, and we're on _Hacker_ News after all - doing this just for fun should be sufficient reason in and of itself
  - Valord 2y ago
    Had the itch. Did it. No regrets
- dend 2y ago
  You don't even need attention - it could be a public blog where you share about the things you learn. You never know who it's going to help. That's primarily my motivation with the blog.
- dni0 2y ago
  Indeed. If you only use social media to connect with friends and family... good luck getting them to visit literally any other website.
johnklos 2y ago
The author makes some good points, and the overall message is good, but: Why would we care so much about being a property owner and not renter if we don't care about whether a hosting company can just turn us off? Why would we care so little about privacy that we'd willingly use services that negate privacy and introduce tracking? For instance, the author suggests using Cloudflare, Azure, AWS and more, and none of these aren't abusive. Funnily enough, the Cloudflare hosted images on the page didn't even load for me;) Does the author not know that Mastodon is software and not a social media network? Sure, it's a minor thing, but when people use terms incorrectly, it makes me wonder if they really know what they're talking about (people who'd rather fight about whether it's a term "everyone uses" instead of whether it's correct seem to not get this point). The author writes (or quotes) somewhat derisively: > Well of course it’s better to host your own blog! Also, while you’re at it, put your Mastodon server in a DigitalOcean droplet, throw some Cloudflare CDN in front of it, run your own Raspberry Pi to monitor uptime, and you’re golden! Oh, and don’t forget to also make sure to log into the droplet every once in a while to update the container, do an occasional database migration, and ensure that you check the logs for intrusions. This all-or-nothing attempt to make the idea of self-hosting seem ridiculous is by itself ridiculous. Nobody needs to do all that. On the other hand, the audience for what the author is advocating shouldn't have a problem setting up a simple machine or VM instance to host a web site, blog, perhaps even DNS server themselves. All or nothing is silly, so even making this example reduces credibility. All in all, I'd love to see people take ownership of their own things on the Internet. Nobody needs to self-host, but people should if they could, and they should ignore people who say it's too complex because most of the too-complex argument is the suggestion that it needs to be much more than it does. A single VM, a single small computer, even a Pi, can host most things. But whether people self host or use someone else, choosing where to host matters. Don't use companies that negate the benefits of owning your own things, whether by lock-in or by letting them do all the tracking that Facebook would normally do. Don't use companies that'll disable your account because some idiot wrote a letter. Don't use companies that're so big that you can't talk to a human! This article makes for an odd juxtaposition between doing thoughtful things and doing things that negate some or much of that thoughtfulness. I'd have a hard time recommending it to others without qualifications.
sshine 2y ago
tl;dr: - Don't depend on other people's software services. - Buy a domain and host your own website. - Don't pick a sketchy TLD or registrar. - Mailing lists beat social media accounts. - It's okay to depend on a cloud. I had the belief that the article was going to say the exact opposite wrt. cloud hosting. You're literally renting space, and if your stuff gets any heat, your cloud provider may simply shut you down without a trial. Even if you host your own server on your own legal property, most people don't have AS-numbers and peering agreements, so ultimately on the internet most people rent something.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- lylejantzi3rd 2y ago
  I expected him to mention colocation. Kids these days. shakes his cane.
  - rmoriz 2y ago
    A homelab with an useable uplink can be sufficient for many services like blog,DNS, mail. I have 3 Lenovo ThinkCentre Mini PCs running Proxmox VE in HA mode off my basement. Picture at https://devops.science/ https://devops.science/
    - sobkas 2y ago
      > A homelab with an useable uplink can be sufficient for many services like blog, DNS, mail. I always felt like you are painting target on your homelab when you allow outside access.
      - rmoriz 2y ago
        You are. I'm tunneling a /23 which I let Vultr announce via BGP over WireGuard to a local router VM. I have a nftables firewall in place before routing the traffic through the tunnel. I block everything except for exposed IPs and ports/protocols just to keep my limited bandwidth free of noise.
epa 2y ago
Ctrl+F "Bitcoin", 0 results.
- Terr_ 2y ago
  Good! Beyond the many usual critiques, in this context "owning bitcoin" doesn't mean much, barely a step above having a hoard of hidden gold bars. While it is indeed more "on the internet" than precious metals, possessing that speculative-asset does not provide any special niche, ownership, or control over the broader, er, cybernetic means of production.
- kinakomochidayo 2y ago
  Why would anybody own an asset with unresolved security budget issues?
- cyberax 2y ago
  There are also zero NFTs. It's a solid guide, in other words.
easterncalculus 2y ago
In five letters: POSSE https://indieweb.org/POSSE https://indieweb.org/POSSE
- dend 2y ago
  Spot-on - I call it out at the end of the article. Principles are broadly the same.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
BSOhealth 2y ago
I have vr.dev and want to do something meaningful with it, additive to the community, and not just a trash content blog. any ideas? who’s down?
- dijit 2y ago
  sounds like it would be an amazing domain for a forum related to development of VR projects.
- vonunov 2y ago
  slap up a mediawiki and let people contribute VR dev documentation
- gavinhoward 2y ago
  I just beat a video game for the first time in my life. It was such a confidence boost and exactly what I needed because I bought the headset to fight depression (exercise). I realized that VR, as a medium, is uniquely tuned to people, and I think you would have a great blog if you focused on just that: people. What are some ideas for how can VR help people? Can it help people fight depression? Can it be used for physical or emotional therapy? Can it help them safely build skills that could improve their lives? On that last one, I am reading a book about ship handling. It was a Christmas present because I will never be a captain in my life. But ship handling would work so well in VR. Even the commands are so standardized that players could give voice commands, a real bridge. How many Make-a-Wish kids or others could have a wonderful time doing that? And that isn't even considering the idea of extending that game into space with Star Trek USS Enterprise or Star Wars Star Destroyers. Your site could be the nexus of those great ideas. You could even have guest posts. I'd write one. Anyway, sorry for the novel. VR has helped me feel better than I have in a long time.
  - captainnemo229 2y ago
    Thanks for sharing this. Really neat. Glad you are feeling better than you have been! > a book about ship handling Mind sharing the title? I'm very curious.
xyzzy_plugh 2y ago
This all sounds like renting to me. Instead you should: - put a rack in your home - buy an IPv4 block - buy dark fibre - start your own ISP - advertise routes over BGP - host your own email - found a registrar and transfer your domains over All easily obtainable for less than a million dollars in capital. Though once your FTTH and undersea cable operations ramp up you'll need further access to capital.
- greenavocado 2y ago
  It's all fun and games until you need to deal with the right of way
  - chii 2y ago
    the way to deal with the right of way is "might makes right". As it always has.
  - dylan604 2y ago
    or boats with dragging anchors
- dend 2y ago
  You forgot the steps of pressing your own silicon wafers in the garage, followed by soldering motherboards from zero, and of course, having a steel mill to build racks and computer cases. The only way to ensure true independence. In all seriousness, I am a big advocate for hosting your own infrastructure as much as you can, but that requires you to be REALLY into doing it. Otherwise, it's just a completely unnecessary chore.
  - softwaredoug 2y ago
    Don’t forget creating a society capable of supporting industry and science. On a planet producing enough of the raw materials. In a Universe with appropriate fundamental physical constants etc etc.
    - 2y ago
wakawaka28 2y ago
https://landchad.net/ https://landchad.net/
- dend 2y ago
  Great resource, thank you for sharing! I should include it in the blog post footnotes.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
cyberax 2y ago
Other notes: use projects that are either supported by a community, or have a motivated developer (buy their a Patreon sponsorship if you can).
- dend 2y ago
  Absolutely. I am a big fan of supporting independent software and bootstrapped services.
indigodaddy 2y ago
What this guy doesn't really get is that people don't want their own websites. What the hell would they do with a website? They love social media platforms. The why or where of how we got here doesn't really matter, it's the reality. I think the only way forward is better and less evil social networks, or perhaps some sort of cyclical sea change where the Internet sort of starts over again, ala how civilizations/humanity have every XX thousands of years according to various esoteric Sikh/Hindu traditions.
- dend 2y ago
  That's a fair call-out, but that's why in the post I mention this: > Most people are perfectly content with everything living inside their Facebook account because it’s convenient and their family and friends are already there. Telling everyone to learn how git and GitHub Pages work to host their blog is not an effective way to drive change. But that’s also not the point. As I mentioned earlier, the goal is to start with a small niche community of people who are comfortable with building their own digital corners. Not everyone needs to have their website. Not everybody wants to have their website. And that's fine. They can use the social platforms as-is. But for those that have the means and interest in building their own corners (say, they want to bootstrap a business), they should not limit themselves to the social networks as the only place for their community. There is a better way than be a sharecropper on someone else's land.
  - BlueTemplar 2y ago
    What I don't understand is why you would think that GitHub Pages is an acceptable alternative : it's kind of the equivalent of being a doctor and recommending Oxycodone to cure hangover for someone of alcoholic tendencies...
    - Pooge 2y ago
      Because you can get your own domain in front of it and export your content (i.e. Markdown). Users would land on your domain name, but it doesn't really matter if it's hosted on your PC or GitHub. The point is that you would be able to change providers very easily without having to make people migrate to your new platform.
rpcope1 2y ago
> Exploiting user-generated content. You know, if I've noticed anything in the past couple years, it's that even if you self-host your own site, it's still going to get hoovered up and used/exploited by things like AI training bots. I think between everyone's code getting trained on, even if it's AGPLv3 or something similarly restrictive, and generally everything public on the internet getting "trained" and "transformed" to basically launder it via "AI", I can absolutely see why someone rational would want to share a whole lot less, anywhere, in an open fashion, regardless of where it's hosted. I'd honestly rather see and think more about how to segment communities locally, and go back to the "fragmented" way things once were. It's easier to want to share with other real people than inadvertently working for free to enrich companies.
- dend 2y ago
  Nothing to disagree in this statement, for sure. If it's on the open internet, it will almost surely be used for AI training, consent be damned. But it feels like even at a rudimentary level, if I post a picture on my site that is then used by a large publisher for ads, I would (at least in theory) have some recourse to pursue the matter and prevent them from using my content. In contrast, if I uploaded something to a social media site like Instagram, and then Meta "sublicensed" my image to someone else, I wouldn't have much to say there. Would love someone with actual legal knowledge to chime in here.
  - chii 2y ago
    > Meta "sublicensed" my image to someone else, I wouldn't have much to say there. but you agreed to this, when agreeing to the TOS. > I post a picture on my site that is then used by a large publisher for ads, I would (at least in theory) have some recourse which you didn't sign any contract, and therefore it is a violation of copyright. But the new AI training methods are currently, at least imho, not a violation of copyright - not any more than a human eye viewing it (which you've implicitly given permission to do so, by putting it up on the internet). On the other hand, if you put it behind a gate (no matter how trivial), then you could've at least legally protected yourself.
wavewrangler 2y ago
Rules to live by… Although I swear this was posted on here just recently, was it not?
- dend 2y ago
  Honestly, while I put this together, I know that the ideas on this are not unique to me by any stretch. It's just another arrow in the bunch. I added a few extra reading materials/references at the bottom of the article.
drewcoo 2y ago
This used to be a forum for startup-folk, not wanna-be-FAANG-employees. There's a lot of sense in this post. There's not a lot of sense in the reaction here.
- scarface_74 2y ago
  What do you think the goal of “startup folks” were if not to get acquired by FAANG or other BigTech adjacent companies? Out of the literally thousands of companies that YC has invested in, only about a dozen have gone public. YC is not interested in “lifestyle companies” that are a profitable ongoing concern it is interested in the “exit”
  - moron4hire 2y ago
    Yeah, no, that's definitely not the story YC sells though.
- pembrook 2y ago
  An accurate rebrand could be renaming this place from “hackernews” to “middle manager IT dad news.”
econ 2y ago
We shouldn't complaint as it is all our fault. (haha) I think OPML is the technology. Go build one and share it. Writing or recording your own stuff is a lot of work. Help promote all the cool things you've found outside the walled garden of plastic plants. Build a website for someone, teach them html for 20 minutes and set up a domain, hosting and an ftp client for them. They can always call you if they get stuck.
- dend 2y ago
  That's the strategy I have with this blog. Instead of sitting and lamenting over the state of the internet, it's better to spread the word and encourage action. There are actual things we can do to reclaim parts of the web that died down. It doesn't need to be at the same scale as all the social networks out there, but even if it serves a small niche, that's a fantastic achievement.
  - econ 2y ago
    Domain names and hosting are really more of the same garbage. People should be able to host things on their computer and without having to learn anything. Friends should archive and mirror it and without having to check boxes. Only with file sharing the establishment went to war. Maybe ipfs will grow to that level.
xenodium 2y ago
> the vibrant ecosystem of blogs, feeds, personal sites, and forums has been usurped by a few mega-concentrated players. I’m trying to do my bit for the web at https://lmno.lol https://lmno.lol Started a blogging service that doesn’t do things like the big players.
unit149 2y ago
[dead]
veltas 2y ago
This article recommends .eu domains. There is a caveat to this, in the unlikely event your state leaves the EU you will be forced off, this happened to many UK entities after Brexit, they were forced to stop using their .eu domains.
- dend 2y ago
  Fair point - I will add that as a clarification, thank you for calling it out.
- wiether 2y ago
  Furthermore, as a French person, and thus a European citizen, I must say that the .eu TLD is not popular and usually bears a _political_ meaning. Like it's used by institutions or organizations linked to the EU by their activity, but it's rarely used by companies or individuals whose activity is not focussed on the EU. Companies are still going to buy the .eu domains associated with their brands, but they will communicate with another TLD like .com or will provide located versions of their site under a country TLD like .fr for the French version and .de for the German one. What I see the most is: - country TLD for content that is located - .com/.net or weird (like .dev) for content that is in English or in multiple languages
xixixao 2y ago
Good advice, and pretty standard setup I’d say, even for companies that are trying to build a community. The one thing I wonder about is whether younger generations will use mailing lists. I never did and I’m already in my mid-30s.
- dend 2y ago
  Shockingly, they do! Quite a few folks that I've talked to recently expressed that they are subscribed to more than one email newsletter and read them fairly consistently.
paweladamczuk 2y ago
> e-mail is a universal protocol I wonder how long that will be true, considering how difficult hosting your own server for your own domain is these days.
Toutouxc 2y ago
Oh what a delight, the cartoon animal character in the infoboxes is “Krteček” [0], a popular (and quite old) character from my country. The website says that the guy is from Washington, but his name does sound vaguely Slavic. Interesting. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Little_Mole https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Little_Mole
- cenamus 2y ago
  Delimarsky sounds more than just a bit Czech/Slovak :)
  - dend 2y ago
    Hah! Well that certainly is a good directional guess! I am of Eastern European descent. Also, big fan of Krtek - grew up on that cartoon, was quite an educational experience at that age.
    - cenamus 2y ago
      Ah yes, with transliteration that assumption goes out of the window haha
dusted 2y ago
So this is a blog stating to be an owner and not a renter, and then proceeds to talk about how to rent hosting.. Sorry, but if it's not your hardware, on your property, then you're renting. Regulations have been waay too lose on, especially, american ISPs where I understand they are allowed to not only refuse you a public routable IP but also dictate what kind of traffic you're allowed to send and receive (for example, whether the traffic flowing is of "commercial" character and therefore should be on on a different subscription), this insanity should be illegal. Internet is a utility, and everyone should have the right to the same type of access, regardless of their need (those who do not need/want, can simply chose not to use it, but ISPs should not be allowed to differentiate). I've hosted my own web, and other servers on my own hardware since I was 13 years old, when I bought my first domain, I had to use a fax machine for the first time in my life, and fax my request form, along with my passport, to the agency responsible for the top level domain of my country. It was kind of convoluted back then, but everyone were helpful, and it was not that difficult, the technology was well understood, supporters were competent, and it was expected that people were going to use the internet for internet things. Today is my 39th birthday, and while the server hosting my stuff is mostly still located 3 meters from me, the path to having it online has nothing but degenerated, it's an uphill battle just to be on the internet these days.. The mail stuff is the easier part (dkim, dmarc, spf, certificates).. But the simple act of getting your f..king computer connected to the f..king internet like it was 1999, that's the real hassle.. ISP NAT, supporters beyond incompetent, blocked ports, missing (or unknown) relay hosts.. It's a joke.
- iamacyborg 2y ago
  I started to self host my own personal website last year and found it relatively easy. I may have been somewhat lucky with my ISP and that I was already paying for a static IP but the hardest part was setting up cloudflare to mask my IP (and learning how to setup a Linux VM from scratch).
- dend 2y ago
  I generally agree with the sentiment (and yes, internet should be treated as an utility). However, the reality is that the vast majority of people will not be able to self-host on their own hardware for a myriad of reasons (lack of skill, lack of money, lack of interest, etc.) That's not a reason to gatekeep them from having their own corner and claim it as theirs. If you have a domain and your own site, even hosted on a colocated rack or in the cloud, you're already miles ahead of those that don't. And if you have a domain and can manage DNS records, then in the future that doesn't preclude you from "graduating" to your own hardware, if you so desire. The goal here is more or less self-sufficiency with web properties rather than a pure interpretation of "rent" vs. "own." Because at some point you have to rent something from someone (say, you're not running your own domain registry and registrar).
fitsumbelay 2y ago
this should be standard for every human being not just techies the LOE to self hosting and adding infra on demand should also be push button easy the good news is that it seems to get easier and cheaper as time passes, which makes it feel inevitable but obstacles remain because of corporate business interests of course
mtsolitary 2y ago
Unfortunately it’s literally impossible to own and not rent your domain :(
- dend 2y ago
  It's true, and yet it's still a better alternative to not having your own domain at all (at least IMO).
Almondsetat 2y ago
A bit funny to see "owner" and "buying a domain" next to each other
- rednafi 2y ago
  Yeah, I wish there was a way to buy domains; not just rent them. It’s not like they’re limited in supply. For example, you kind of own your email addresses.
- dend 2y ago
  Yeah, unfortunately, c'est la vie. Renting a domain is still better than not having it.
rednafi 2y ago
Started my blog[1] around five years ago and never looked back. Before that, I got burned by Medium and decided: never again. Maintaining your own little corner on the internet is easier than ever, though I agree it still requires some technical know-how. Also, I’m not sure how much I trust these WYSIWYG blog engines like Squarespace or Weebly. [1]: https://rednafi.com https://rednafi.com
psychoslave 2y ago
Well, we literally can’t buy a domain name only rent it, and owning a TLD or possess a static numerical address is not an option that is accessible to mere mortal either.
- seanw444 2y ago
  Would be nice if something like Namecoin could gain traction.
anarwhal 2y ago
One other way to look at some of this (especially with the other comments around whether anything is "truly" owned) is in terms of "redundancy". TFA touches on some of the control/portability side but the thought experiment here is something like: how many people am I depending on? If you owned den.dev and den.xyz as mirrors on separate providers that's one less failure point where someone else has the power to disappear you (etc, all the way through to redundant underwater sea cables, I guess!)
chromanoid 2y ago
Ever heard of cooperatives? I think digital coops are the only really feasible way away from platform capitalism. e.g. https://www.hostsharing.net/ https://www.hostsharing.net/
stefantalpalaru 2y ago
[dead]
bithead 2y ago
Social media makes me miss USENet
lxgr 2y ago
> Social media accounts that just post out-of-context links are of no interest to me and vast majority of people you probably care about. If I see an account do just that, it’s an instant unfollow. If I wanted just links I’d subscribe to a RSS feed. I strongly disagree. I am subscribed to several "link farm" accounts specifically because I don't use RSS anymore, and because it allows for an immediate discussion if enough people are subscribed to said account.
p3rls 2y ago
Eh, no be a renter. I'm a property owner on the internet, built the best website in my niche by far (really look it up and compare) but google rewards ugly dogshit wordpresses created by people with no expertise in my niche. When you're an owner you have to deal with things like taking another SEO hit for the holidays and have to face the dilemma of whether to fire people now, or when you have no money in two months and no reserves left to maneuver too.
MattLuo 2y ago
> 10. Incremental is better than perfect# Your site is not going to be perfect from day one. You are going to run into hiccups with discoverability. You’ll find out that nobody can find it on Google for the first month. That’s OK. You can pull through this. This is the last item that the article ends with. I think it gives a misleading impression of how easy it is to get a website to rank on the Google SERP. The author writes "hiccups" with discoverability, and "nobody can find it on Google for the first month". My experience with blogs is that Google SERP is extremely competitive these days for popular keywords. Anchoring on "the first month" is unrealistically fast SEO results.

330 points by dend 2y ago

This is good advice for people whose livelihood depends on the attention of anonymous strangers. For everyone else, it’s probably ok to ignore.

pcloadletter_ 2y ago
It's also just kind of cool and fun to hack together a personal website
- dend 2y ago
  Totally. If I would tell 10-year-old me that I have my own website on my own domain, it would be seen as a shocking development. I find it really cool to be able to have a corner of the internet that is just mine.
  - hackernewds 2y ago
    This is practically everyone's Facebook Instagram Whatsapp Airbnb anything at all profile already
  - arminiusreturns 2y ago
    I still get a rush with a new server on the internet!!! (especially my latest host: 12 core new gen epyc instances with 48G RAM.)
- anarwhal 2y ago
  Yes, and we're on _Hacker_ News after all - doing this just for fun should be sufficient reason in and of itself
- Valord 2y ago
  Had the itch. Did it. No regrets
dend 2y ago
You don't even need attention - it could be a public blog where you share about the things you learn. You never know who it's going to help. That's primarily my motivation with the blog.
dni0 2y ago
Indeed. If you only use social media to connect with friends and family... good luck getting them to visit literally any other website.

johnklos 2y ago

The author makes some good points, and the overall message is good, but: Why would we care so much about being a property owner and not renter if we don't care about whether a hosting company can just turn us off? Why would we care so little about privacy that we'd willingly use services that negate privacy and introduce tracking? For instance, the author suggests using Cloudflare, Azure, AWS and more, and none of these aren't abusive. Funnily enough, the Cloudflare hosted images on the page didn't even load for me;) Does the author not know that Mastodon is software and not a social media network? Sure, it's a minor thing, but when people use terms incorrectly, it makes me wonder if they really know what they're talking about (people who'd rather fight about whether it's a term "everyone uses" instead of whether it's correct seem to not get this point). The author writes (or quotes) somewhat derisively: > Well of course it’s better to host your own blog! Also, while you’re at it, put your Mastodon server in a DigitalOcean droplet, throw some Cloudflare CDN in front of it, run your own Raspberry Pi to monitor uptime, and you’re golden! Oh, and don’t forget to also make sure to log into the droplet every once in a while to update the container, do an occasional database migration, and ensure that you check the logs for intrusions. This all-or-nothing attempt to make the idea of self-hosting seem ridiculous is by itself ridiculous. Nobody needs to do all that. On the other hand, the audience for what the author is advocating shouldn't have a problem setting up a simple machine or VM instance to host a web site, blog, perhaps even DNS server themselves. All or nothing is silly, so even making this example reduces credibility. All in all, I'd love to see people take ownership of their own things on the Internet. Nobody needs to self-host, but people should if they could, and they should ignore people who say it's too complex because most of the too-complex argument is the suggestion that it needs to be much more than it does. A single VM, a single small computer, even a Pi, can host most things. But whether people self host or use someone else, choosing where to host matters. Don't use companies that negate the benefits of owning your own things, whether by lock-in or by letting them do all the tracking that Facebook would normally do. Don't use companies that'll disable your account because some idiot wrote a letter. Don't use companies that're so big that you can't talk to a human! This article makes for an odd juxtaposition between doing thoughtful things and doing things that negate some or much of that thoughtfulness. I'd have a hard time recommending it to others without qualifications.

sshine 2y ago

tl;dr: - Don't depend on other people's software services. - Buy a domain and host your own website. - Don't pick a sketchy TLD or registrar. - Mailing lists beat social media accounts. - It's okay to depend on a cloud. I had the belief that the article was going to say the exact opposite wrt. cloud hosting. You're literally renting space, and if your stuff gets any heat, your cloud provider may simply shut you down without a trial. Even if you host your own server on your own legal property, most people don't have AS-numbers and peering agreements, so ultimately on the internet most people rent something.

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
lylejantzi3rd 2y ago
I expected him to mention colocation. Kids these days. shakes his cane.
- rmoriz 2y ago
  A homelab with an useable uplink can be sufficient for many services like blog,DNS, mail. I have 3 Lenovo ThinkCentre Mini PCs running Proxmox VE in HA mode off my basement. Picture at https://devops.science/ https://devops.science/
  - sobkas 2y ago
    > A homelab with an useable uplink can be sufficient for many services like blog, DNS, mail. I always felt like you are painting target on your homelab when you allow outside access.
    - rmoriz 2y ago
      You are. I'm tunneling a /23 which I let Vultr announce via BGP over WireGuard to a local router VM. I have a nftables firewall in place before routing the traffic through the tunnel. I block everything except for exposed IPs and ports/protocols just to keep my limited bandwidth free of noise.

epa 2y ago

Ctrl+F "Bitcoin", 0 results.

Terr_ 2y ago
Good! Beyond the many usual critiques, in this context "owning bitcoin" doesn't mean much, barely a step above having a hoard of hidden gold bars. While it is indeed more "on the internet" than precious metals, possessing that speculative-asset does not provide any special niche, ownership, or control over the broader, er, cybernetic means of production.
kinakomochidayo 2y ago
Why would anybody own an asset with unresolved security budget issues?
cyberax 2y ago
There are also zero NFTs. It's a solid guide, in other words.

easterncalculus 2y ago

In five letters: POSSE https://indieweb.org/POSSE https://indieweb.org/POSSE

dend 2y ago
Spot-on - I call it out at the end of the article. Principles are broadly the same.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

BSOhealth 2y ago

I have vr.dev and want to do something meaningful with it, additive to the community, and not just a trash content blog. any ideas? who’s down?

dijit 2y ago
sounds like it would be an amazing domain for a forum related to development of VR projects.
vonunov 2y ago
slap up a mediawiki and let people contribute VR dev documentation
gavinhoward 2y ago
I just beat a video game for the first time in my life. It was such a confidence boost and exactly what I needed because I bought the headset to fight depression (exercise). I realized that VR, as a medium, is uniquely tuned to people, and I think you would have a great blog if you focused on just that: people. What are some ideas for how can VR help people? Can it help people fight depression? Can it be used for physical or emotional therapy? Can it help them safely build skills that could improve their lives? On that last one, I am reading a book about ship handling. It was a Christmas present because I will never be a captain in my life. But ship handling would work so well in VR. Even the commands are so standardized that players could give voice commands, a real bridge. How many Make-a-Wish kids or others could have a wonderful time doing that? And that isn't even considering the idea of extending that game into space with Star Trek USS Enterprise or Star Wars Star Destroyers. Your site could be the nexus of those great ideas. You could even have guest posts. I'd write one. Anyway, sorry for the novel. VR has helped me feel better than I have in a long time.
- captainnemo229 2y ago
  Thanks for sharing this. Really neat. Glad you are feeling better than you have been! > a book about ship handling Mind sharing the title? I'm very curious.

xyzzy_plugh 2y ago

This all sounds like renting to me. Instead you should: - put a rack in your home - buy an IPv4 block - buy dark fibre - start your own ISP - advertise routes over BGP - host your own email - found a registrar and transfer your domains over All easily obtainable for less than a million dollars in capital. Though once your FTTH and undersea cable operations ramp up you'll need further access to capital.

greenavocado 2y ago
It's all fun and games until you need to deal with the right of way
- chii 2y ago
  the way to deal with the right of way is "might makes right". As it always has.
- dylan604 2y ago
  or boats with dragging anchors
dend 2y ago
You forgot the steps of pressing your own silicon wafers in the garage, followed by soldering motherboards from zero, and of course, having a steel mill to build racks and computer cases. The only way to ensure true independence. In all seriousness, I am a big advocate for hosting your own infrastructure as much as you can, but that requires you to be REALLY into doing it. Otherwise, it's just a completely unnecessary chore.
- softwaredoug 2y ago
  Don’t forget creating a society capable of supporting industry and science. On a planet producing enough of the raw materials. In a Universe with appropriate fundamental physical constants etc etc.
  - 2y ago

wakawaka28 2y ago

https://landchad.net/ https://landchad.net/

dend 2y ago
Great resource, thank you for sharing! I should include it in the blog post footnotes.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

cyberax 2y ago

Other notes: use projects that are either supported by a community, or have a motivated developer (buy their a Patreon sponsorship if you can).

dend 2y ago
Absolutely. I am a big fan of supporting independent software and bootstrapped services.

indigodaddy 2y ago

What this guy doesn't really get is that people don't want their own websites. What the hell would they do with a website? They love social media platforms. The why or where of how we got here doesn't really matter, it's the reality. I think the only way forward is better and less evil social networks, or perhaps some sort of cyclical sea change where the Internet sort of starts over again, ala how civilizations/humanity have every XX thousands of years according to various esoteric Sikh/Hindu traditions.

dend 2y ago
That's a fair call-out, but that's why in the post I mention this: > Most people are perfectly content with everything living inside their Facebook account because it’s convenient and their family and friends are already there. Telling everyone to learn how git and GitHub Pages work to host their blog is not an effective way to drive change. But that’s also not the point. As I mentioned earlier, the goal is to start with a small niche community of people who are comfortable with building their own digital corners. Not everyone needs to have their website. Not everybody wants to have their website. And that's fine. They can use the social platforms as-is. But for those that have the means and interest in building their own corners (say, they want to bootstrap a business), they should not limit themselves to the social networks as the only place for their community. There is a better way than be a sharecropper on someone else's land.
- BlueTemplar 2y ago
  What I don't understand is why you would think that GitHub Pages is an acceptable alternative : it's kind of the equivalent of being a doctor and recommending Oxycodone to cure hangover for someone of alcoholic tendencies...
  - Pooge 2y ago
    Because you can get your own domain in front of it and export your content (i.e. Markdown). Users would land on your domain name, but it doesn't really matter if it's hosted on your PC or GitHub. The point is that you would be able to change providers very easily without having to make people migrate to your new platform.

rpcope1 2y ago

> Exploiting user-generated content. You know, if I've noticed anything in the past couple years, it's that even if you self-host your own site, it's still going to get hoovered up and used/exploited by things like AI training bots. I think between everyone's code getting trained on, even if it's AGPLv3 or something similarly restrictive, and generally everything public on the internet getting "trained" and "transformed" to basically launder it via "AI", I can absolutely see why someone rational would want to share a whole lot less, anywhere, in an open fashion, regardless of where it's hosted. I'd honestly rather see and think more about how to segment communities locally, and go back to the "fragmented" way things once were. It's easier to want to share with other real people than inadvertently working for free to enrich companies.

dend 2y ago
Nothing to disagree in this statement, for sure. If it's on the open internet, it will almost surely be used for AI training, consent be damned. But it feels like even at a rudimentary level, if I post a picture on my site that is then used by a large publisher for ads, I would (at least in theory) have some recourse to pursue the matter and prevent them from using my content. In contrast, if I uploaded something to a social media site like Instagram, and then Meta "sublicensed" my image to someone else, I wouldn't have much to say there. Would love someone with actual legal knowledge to chime in here.
- chii 2y ago
  > Meta "sublicensed" my image to someone else, I wouldn't have much to say there. but you agreed to this, when agreeing to the TOS. > I post a picture on my site that is then used by a large publisher for ads, I would (at least in theory) have some recourse which you didn't sign any contract, and therefore it is a violation of copyright. But the new AI training methods are currently, at least imho, not a violation of copyright - not any more than a human eye viewing it (which you've implicitly given permission to do so, by putting it up on the internet). On the other hand, if you put it behind a gate (no matter how trivial), then you could've at least legally protected yourself.

wavewrangler 2y ago

Rules to live by… Although I swear this was posted on here just recently, was it not?

dend 2y ago
Honestly, while I put this together, I know that the ideas on this are not unique to me by any stretch. It's just another arrow in the bunch. I added a few extra reading materials/references at the bottom of the article.

drewcoo 2y ago

This used to be a forum for startup-folk, not wanna-be-FAANG-employees. There's a lot of sense in this post. There's not a lot of sense in the reaction here.

scarface_74 2y ago
What do you think the goal of “startup folks” were if not to get acquired by FAANG or other BigTech adjacent companies? Out of the literally thousands of companies that YC has invested in, only about a dozen have gone public. YC is not interested in “lifestyle companies” that are a profitable ongoing concern it is interested in the “exit”
- moron4hire 2y ago
  Yeah, no, that's definitely not the story YC sells though.
pembrook 2y ago
An accurate rebrand could be renaming this place from “hackernews” to “middle manager IT dad news.”

econ 2y ago

We shouldn't complaint as it is all our fault. (haha) I think OPML is the technology. Go build one and share it. Writing or recording your own stuff is a lot of work. Help promote all the cool things you've found outside the walled garden of plastic plants. Build a website for someone, teach them html for 20 minutes and set up a domain, hosting and an ftp client for them. They can always call you if they get stuck.

dend 2y ago
That's the strategy I have with this blog. Instead of sitting and lamenting over the state of the internet, it's better to spread the word and encourage action. There are actual things we can do to reclaim parts of the web that died down. It doesn't need to be at the same scale as all the social networks out there, but even if it serves a small niche, that's a fantastic achievement.
- econ 2y ago
  Domain names and hosting are really more of the same garbage. People should be able to host things on their computer and without having to learn anything. Friends should archive and mirror it and without having to check boxes. Only with file sharing the establishment went to war. Maybe ipfs will grow to that level.

xenodium 2y ago

> the vibrant ecosystem of blogs, feeds, personal sites, and forums has been usurped by a few mega-concentrated players. I’m trying to do my bit for the web at https://lmno.lol https://lmno.lol Started a blogging service that doesn’t do things like the big players.

unit149 2y ago

[dead]

veltas 2y ago

This article recommends .eu domains. There is a caveat to this, in the unlikely event your state leaves the EU you will be forced off, this happened to many UK entities after Brexit, they were forced to stop using their .eu domains.

dend 2y ago
Fair point - I will add that as a clarification, thank you for calling it out.
wiether 2y ago
Furthermore, as a French person, and thus a European citizen, I must say that the .eu TLD is not popular and usually bears a _political_ meaning. Like it's used by institutions or organizations linked to the EU by their activity, but it's rarely used by companies or individuals whose activity is not focussed on the EU. Companies are still going to buy the .eu domains associated with their brands, but they will communicate with another TLD like .com or will provide located versions of their site under a country TLD like .fr for the French version and .de for the German one. What I see the most is: - country TLD for content that is located - .com/.net or weird (like .dev) for content that is in English or in multiple languages

xixixao 2y ago

Good advice, and pretty standard setup I’d say, even for companies that are trying to build a community. The one thing I wonder about is whether younger generations will use mailing lists. I never did and I’m already in my mid-30s.

dend 2y ago
Shockingly, they do! Quite a few folks that I've talked to recently expressed that they are subscribed to more than one email newsletter and read them fairly consistently.

paweladamczuk 2y ago

> e-mail is a universal protocol I wonder how long that will be true, considering how difficult hosting your own server for your own domain is these days.

Toutouxc 2y ago

Oh what a delight, the cartoon animal character in the infoboxes is “Krteček” [0], a popular (and quite old) character from my country. The website says that the guy is from Washington, but his name does sound vaguely Slavic. Interesting. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Little_Mole https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Little_Mole

cenamus 2y ago
Delimarsky sounds more than just a bit Czech/Slovak :)
- dend 2y ago
  Hah! Well that certainly is a good directional guess! I am of Eastern European descent. Also, big fan of Krtek - grew up on that cartoon, was quite an educational experience at that age.
  - cenamus 2y ago
    Ah yes, with transliteration that assumption goes out of the window haha

dusted 2y ago

So this is a blog stating to be an owner and not a renter, and then proceeds to talk about how to rent hosting.. Sorry, but if it's not your hardware, on your property, then you're renting. Regulations have been waay too lose on, especially, american ISPs where I understand they are allowed to not only refuse you a public routable IP but also dictate what kind of traffic you're allowed to send and receive (for example, whether the traffic flowing is of "commercial" character and therefore should be on on a different subscription), this insanity should be illegal. Internet is a utility, and everyone should have the right to the same type of access, regardless of their need (those who do not need/want, can simply chose not to use it, but ISPs should not be allowed to differentiate). I've hosted my own web, and other servers on my own hardware since I was 13 years old, when I bought my first domain, I had to use a fax machine for the first time in my life, and fax my request form, along with my passport, to the agency responsible for the top level domain of my country. It was kind of convoluted back then, but everyone were helpful, and it was not that difficult, the technology was well understood, supporters were competent, and it was expected that people were going to use the internet for internet things. Today is my 39th birthday, and while the server hosting my stuff is mostly still located 3 meters from me, the path to having it online has nothing but degenerated, it's an uphill battle just to be on the internet these days.. The mail stuff is the easier part (dkim, dmarc, spf, certificates).. But the simple act of getting your f..king computer connected to the f..king internet like it was 1999, that's the real hassle.. ISP NAT, supporters beyond incompetent, blocked ports, missing (or unknown) relay hosts.. It's a joke.

iamacyborg 2y ago
I started to self host my own personal website last year and found it relatively easy. I may have been somewhat lucky with my ISP and that I was already paying for a static IP but the hardest part was setting up cloudflare to mask my IP (and learning how to setup a Linux VM from scratch).
dend 2y ago
I generally agree with the sentiment (and yes, internet should be treated as an utility). However, the reality is that the vast majority of people will not be able to self-host on their own hardware for a myriad of reasons (lack of skill, lack of money, lack of interest, etc.) That's not a reason to gatekeep them from having their own corner and claim it as theirs. If you have a domain and your own site, even hosted on a colocated rack or in the cloud, you're already miles ahead of those that don't. And if you have a domain and can manage DNS records, then in the future that doesn't preclude you from "graduating" to your own hardware, if you so desire. The goal here is more or less self-sufficiency with web properties rather than a pure interpretation of "rent" vs. "own." Because at some point you have to rent something from someone (say, you're not running your own domain registry and registrar).

fitsumbelay 2y ago

this should be standard for every human being not just techies the LOE to self hosting and adding infra on demand should also be push button easy the good news is that it seems to get easier and cheaper as time passes, which makes it feel inevitable but obstacles remain because of corporate business interests of course

mtsolitary 2y ago

Unfortunately it’s literally impossible to own and not rent your domain :(

dend 2y ago
It's true, and yet it's still a better alternative to not having your own domain at all (at least IMO).

Almondsetat 2y ago

A bit funny to see "owner" and "buying a domain" next to each other

rednafi 2y ago
Yeah, I wish there was a way to buy domains; not just rent them. It’s not like they’re limited in supply. For example, you kind of own your email addresses.
dend 2y ago
Yeah, unfortunately, c'est la vie. Renting a domain is still better than not having it.

rednafi 2y ago

Started my blog[1] around five years ago and never looked back. Before that, I got burned by Medium and decided: never again. Maintaining your own little corner on the internet is easier than ever, though I agree it still requires some technical know-how. Also, I’m not sure how much I trust these WYSIWYG blog engines like Squarespace or Weebly. [1]: https://rednafi.com https://rednafi.com

psychoslave 2y ago

Well, we literally can’t buy a domain name only rent it, and owning a TLD or possess a static numerical address is not an option that is accessible to mere mortal either.

seanw444 2y ago
Would be nice if something like Namecoin could gain traction.

anarwhal 2y ago

One other way to look at some of this (especially with the other comments around whether anything is "truly" owned) is in terms of "redundancy". TFA touches on some of the control/portability side but the thought experiment here is something like: how many people am I depending on? If you owned den.dev and den.xyz as mirrors on separate providers that's one less failure point where someone else has the power to disappear you (etc, all the way through to redundant underwater sea cables, I guess!)

chromanoid 2y ago

Ever heard of cooperatives? I think digital coops are the only really feasible way away from platform capitalism. e.g. https://www.hostsharing.net/ https://www.hostsharing.net/

stefantalpalaru 2y ago

[dead]

bithead 2y ago

Social media makes me miss USENet

lxgr 2y ago

> Social media accounts that just post out-of-context links are of no interest to me and vast majority of people you probably care about. If I see an account do just that, it’s an instant unfollow. If I wanted just links I’d subscribe to a RSS feed. I strongly disagree. I am subscribed to several "link farm" accounts specifically because I don't use RSS anymore, and because it allows for an immediate discussion if enough people are subscribed to said account.

p3rls 2y ago

Eh, no be a renter. I'm a property owner on the internet, built the best website in my niche by far (really look it up and compare) but google rewards ugly dogshit wordpresses created by people with no expertise in my niche. When you're an owner you have to deal with things like taking another SEO hit for the holidays and have to face the dilemma of whether to fire people now, or when you have no money in two months and no reserves left to maneuver too.

MattLuo 2y ago

> 10. Incremental is better than perfect# Your site is not going to be perfect from day one. You are going to run into hiccups with discoverability. You’ll find out that nobody can find it on Google for the first month. That’s OK. You can pull through this. This is the last item that the article ends with. I think it gives a misleading impression of how easy it is to get a website to rank on the Google SERP. The author writes "hiccups" with discoverability, and "nobody can find it on Google for the first month". My experience with blogs is that Google SERP is extremely competitive these days for popular keywords. Anchoring on "the first month" is unrealistically fast SEO results.