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Family of OpenAI whistleblower Suchir Balaji demand FBI investigate death
- the_arun 2y agoSuchir’s blog for reference - https://suchir.net/fair_use.html https://suchir.net/fair_use.html
- krama 2y agoIt just doesn’t add up that someone of his profile (2nd generation techie, grew up in Bay Area, liked hiking, bicycling, rock climbing, etc.) would own a gun in San Francisco. Why isn’t SFPD clarifying what the gun trace led them to ? Was it a legal firearm ? Who bought it ? Where ?
- sadeshmukh 2y agohttps://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42524190 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42524190
- dkkergoog 2y ago[dead]
- mentalgear 2y agoas is their right. Companies should be held responsible for at least putting undue social, financial and legal pressure on people who are speak out for their beliefs regarding public matters.
- noname120 2y agoDid OpenAI put social, financial, or legal pressure on him? Genuinely asking, I have no idea
- inetknght 2y ago> Did [anyone] put social, financial, or legal pressure on him? Genuinely asking, I have no idea Great question. If the family has suspicion of such then perhaps a competent authority should perform an investigation.
- infecto 2y agoSure but the family is overly biased. They need something more tangible.
- SpicyLemonZest 2y agoDoes the family have a concrete basis for suspicion of such? The police don't have any particular power to investigate wild hypotheses. They can ask his friends and coworkers "hey did you kill him", and they'll respond with some combination of "no" and "talk to my lawyer" - then what?
- ev428 2y agoSays it took them 40 seconds to determine suicide. I'm not sure how that determination could be made without knowledge of the firearm's ownership. Did he legally own the firearm? If not, how did he acquire the firearm? Is anyone else noticing the number of whistleblower deaths occurring? Boeing has had several in the past year. https://fortune.com/2024/05/02/boeing-whistleblower-dead-joshua-dean-45-sudden-severe-infection/ https://fortune.com/2024/05/02/boeing-whistleblower-dead-jos...
- OutOfHere 2y ago[flagged]
- JKCalhoun 2y agoAnother theory is that whistleblowers are under a lot of stress. Pre-existing emotional issues would be exacerbated, sometimes leading to suicide.
- ev428 2y agoTo clarify, I'm not suggesting OpenAI was involved, or that the cause of death is anything other than suicide. I was pointing out an investigative detail (legal ownership of the weapon). I have now read 4 or 5 articles on the matter and none have mentioned this detail. If he did legally own the weapon, it would be difficult to prove suicide isn't the cause of death without additional evidence of another person being present. If he didn't obtain the weapon legally, that warrants an additional investigation into how he obtained the weapon (his parents' request). While it doesn't eliminate suicide as a cause of death, it is a key detail in the case.
- bb88 2y agoI would assume if you're an overworked cop in an underfunded police department, it's gonna be hard to prove a murder from what looks like a suicide. A toxicology is going to cost money and maybe not actually provide any more details. Any needle marks are likely to go unnoticed by the coroner doing the post mortem, if one is even given. And the sad thing is, after all the investigation has happened, it's possible he killed himself. I'm sure lots of parents have thought their children would have never be capable of doing that, only to find out later that they did.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- tonygiorgio 2y agoThe same gov that’s in bed with OpenAI???
- dotancohen 2y agoIn what way?
- WillyWonkaJr 2y agoThe head of the NSA left his job to join the board of directors of OpenAI.
- ARandomerDude 2y agoTotal coincidence, nothing to see here, peasants. If you think otherwise you’re a conspiracy theorist, a Putin apologist, a gaslighter, or whatever we’re calling you today.
- vouaobrasil 2y agoI hope they seriously investigate OpenAI and their working conditions.
- paxys 2y agoWhat's wrong with OpenAI working conditions?
- vouaobrasil 2y agoWell, someone committed suicide and they also went against the company by challenging them publicly. A company that makes a truckload of money. Shouldn't an investigation be in order?
- refulgentis 2y agoI did a quick sketch of premises, no warranty :) Curious for your thoughts, tl;dr: imho there doesn't seem to be a reason to investigate OpenAI's working conditions. - Person A died - Person A used to work for company X - Person A spoke negatively about company X's choice in training data sourcing - Company X has a lot of money - Law enforcement should investigate Company X workplace conditions I think the missing piece is some sort of evidence Company X was involved, or finding some tangible evidence that someone who committed suicide was materially, and thus criminally, caused by workplace conditions at a job they left a while ago. (this is a pretty high bar, a civil suit has ~0 bar and would be easier, but law enforcement isn't responsible for helping with those) The public funds uninterested cross-discipline teams of highly trained professionals to crosscheck eachother on ex. cause of death, and without any evidence from that process indicating a possiblity someone other than the decedant was involved...it appears to be a leap.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- MooseBurger 2y agothey get paid a ludicrous amount. the status of their working conditions are inconsequential.
- infecto 2y agoInteresting to see how quick people jump to conclusions. Would it not be just as reasonable that this individual was struggling with mental health issues? I would think a whistleblower regardless of the legitimacy of claims, would be under extra stress and perhaps even likelier that folks with preexisting mental health conditions would be more inclined to go down this route. Higher chance of suicide seems more plausible than companies whacking people. It should certainly be investigated still.
- userabchn 2y agoI think many people underestimate the mental anguish caused by being ostracized by your former coworkers, and by the realization that, even after a lifetime of working hard, your career prospects are now in tatters.
- anupamme 2y agoWhy would you say: people with preexisting mental health conditions are more likely to be whistleblowers? That's a very prejudiced statement if I'm correct in what you mean. I'd rather say these people are more sensitive and aware of the consequences of their actions which is why they chose the path of a whistleblower, which is very different from saying they had mental health issues from the beginning.
- zxcvbnm69 2y ago[dead]
- colechristensen 2y agoPlenty of mental health conditions make a person more likely to have a stronger reaction to a situation, to take risks, or to act without consideration of consequences. Following up a whistleblower act with suicide because it didn’t go as hoped is also not surprising. Perhaps you’ve never been around bipolar folks. Calling it “prejudiced” is silly.
- zxvkhkxvdvbdxz 2y agoThat's not what I read from infecto's post, they say that people with preexisting mental health issues are more likley to commit suicide.
- andy_ppp 2y agoThe last paragraph of the article hit me very hard: “I don’t know how I could have saved my son by teaching him to tell lies,” Ramarao said. “The ethics with which I raised him took his life today.” Even calling him a whistleblower is quite a stretch, we already know companies like Open AI are based on stealing copyrighted work from creative humans.
- TiredOfLife 2y ago> we already know companies like Open AI are based on stealing copyrighted work from creative humans No court or law says it's stealing.
- dylan604 2y ago> we already know companies like and we know this because...whistleblowers???
- khazhoux 2y agoNo. We knew this already because it's evident in the output. For example, when MidJourney can perfectly replicate the visual style of a specific artist whose work is copyrighted.
- alphan0n 2y agoCould you point out the text in copyright law that entitles anyone to ownership of a visual style? Nor have I ever heard of a hardware or software tool ever being responsible for the output of the end user. If I use a copy machine to make a duplicate of your work, is Xerox responsible? I copy your clip art in Illustrator, is Adobe the infringing party? If I make a pencil copy, are we to name Ticonderoga as a defendant? What if I coaxed the entirety of your copyrighted work out of the word suggestion engine on my phone’s keyboard?
- dylan604 2y agoNo, you could guess, surmise, postulate, theorize, but until it was proven, it wasn't known
- ChrisArchitect 2y ago[dupe] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42524190 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42524190
- jjulius 2y agoThis comment is itself a dupe. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42535251 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42535251
- WillyWonkaJr 2y agoWhen billions - perhaps trillions - of dollars are on the line, CEOs and their associates will stop at nothing to get that money. They're surely not going to let the life of a single person stand in their way. Look at what the eBay CEO did to someone simply criticizing them.
- gruez 2y ago>Look at what the eBay CEO did to someone simply criticizing them. If you're trying to imply openai killed him and that's the best example of corporate retaliation you can come up with, then you're nowhere close to proving your point. Sending pigs heads is despicable, by nowhere close to ordering a hit. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EBay_stalking_scandal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EBay_stalking_scandal
- hulitu 2y ago"Seven eBay employees pleaded guilty to charges involving criminal conspiracies.[3][4] The seven employees included two senior members of eBay’s corporate security team.[5] Two members of eBay's Executive Leadership Team who were implicated in the scandal were not charged" Speaks for itself.
- whatshisface 2y agoIt represents the same psychology on the part of the perpetrator.
- gruez 2y ago...that the (seemingly) most insane executive we know of is sane enough to not commit murder?
- whatshisface 2y agoThe people who commit these crimes are not bounded between ranges like normal people.
- kittikitti 2y agoThe amount of harassment and hate being propagated by the media certainly didn't help. I would also find The New York Times to be liable for all the AI doomerism they propagate.
- patrickhogan1 2y agoWhile I doubt OpenAI is responsible for wrongdoing. OpenAI's strategic importance to AI development warrants an FBI investigation as a standard procedure. The whistleblower may have been approached by foreign governments seeking classified information, but declined to share it. There are many potential scenarios to consider, beyond the obvious.
- Der_Einzige 2y agoEveryone doing anything interesting in AI research should assume that they are targets of this kind of thing.
- hulitu 2y ago> Everyone doing anything interesting in AI research They were just using copyrighted material for training. I'm surprised that, OpenAI being a Microsoft child, BSA kept quiet.
- Der_Einzige 2y agoI do not understand why SKIF's aren't being used in any kind of "lawsuit" around LLM training data. We know that there are random undetected "landmines" buried in LLM training data. All the evidence I need is that stupid discord airforce officer doing 20 years in jail for leaking classified docs or the many stories of War-Thunder forums having classified info get leaked just so nerds can win an argument online. I'm old man (or rather, langley's favorite useful idiot) yelling at cloud about this.
- jongjong 2y agoYes, this is a plausible scenario. High-exposure tech industries tend to attract all sorts of government entities from across the world. I worked on a high exposure crypto project and witnessed everything from coercion to sabotage. You just notice people acting in weird ways and it's not clear what their agenda is.f
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- khazhoux 2y agoThe idea that OpenAI had him killed is beyond ludicrous. Even if it were in any way realistic that OpenAI leadership somehow had access to hit men (!!), killing this guy would have been absolutely pointless as far as OpenAI's possible legal troubles go. The notion is not only outlandish, but also illogical. He publicly stated OpenAI used copyright materials. What would killing him now possibly accomplish? Is there some legal statute I'm unaware of where a company can't be investigated if the original whistleblower is dead? It's not like he's the sole witness to a crime, and without his testimony the case disappears.
- lawn 2y ago> The idea that OpenAI had him killed is beyond ludicrous Regular people have hired contract killers to kill their partner, for completely pointless and stupid reasons. What's ludicrous is your outright dismissal.
- isthatafact 2y ago> "The idea that OpenAI had him killed is beyond ludicrous." On the other hand, given that everyone either assumes the whistle-blower was murdered, or at least that the stress of the situation contributed to the suicide, why did OpenAI not do absolutely everything in their power to keep the person safe and mentally well? Why should OpenAI have zero liability for the death, which anyone could have foreseen was a reasonably possible outcome? It just seems like whistleblower protection laws could be much more effective if the company had genuine incentive in the person not dying.
- freehorse 2y agoTestifying during a trial? I am not saying this happened, but it is not unheard of witnesses in high-profile trials to get murdered (and getting covered up) even if they have been public about it. Getting public about it means nothing in terms of testimonies during the trial, and if the person is dead there is no witness's testimony to be used. I do not know about the specifics in "open"AI's court cases, but the fact if him being public in general does not mean much, as I understand it. Moreover, it can scare future whistleblowers. The motive is definitely there, now if this is what happened is a different story.
- kindeyoowee 2y ago[flagged]
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- jongjong 2y agoI also wouldn't trust anything related to big tech which happens in California. They basically own the place. I'm generally afraid of the US these days.
- yolkedgeek 2y agoWhat the hell is wrong with peoples brains? Everyone in these comments are like "Oh not OpenAI wouldn't do that", "maybe he had mental health issues" Shut up please. How naive are you people? Magically every whistleblower is dying and they all have mental health issues? God must hate whistleblowers then.
- flymaipie 2y agoBots are real, man. HN's bots are top-notch. There is no other reason of these comments.
- StefanBatory 2y agoIt's easier to believe companies are your friends than to consider that the elites would do anything to save their money. Americans and Western Europeans are in general so damn naive when it comes up to that. Like sure, live in your fantasy where everyone abides the law and no bad actors exist :<
- mu53 2y agoThe new method to manage political dissidents/whistleblowers in the 21st century is chemical weapons that produce profound states of depression/anxiety that can bring about obsessive thoughts about suicide. These poisons work miracles. If the person talks about it, most people will believe they are crazy before believing they are being poisoned. There is no way to prove you have been poisoned without spending millions of dollars. All of the advances in medical science pave the way for these poisons to be developed and manufactured cheaply. OpenAI has direct connections to the military industrial complex in the US. The leaders in these orgs have huge egos that don't like to be double-crossed, and despite it not making sense long term for their business, they are perfectly safe to retaliate using these methods and choose to do so.
- tapcheck 2y ago> These poisons work miracles. If the person talks about it, most people will believe they are crazy before believing they are being poisoned. There is no way to prove you have been poisoned without spending millions of dollars. They’re called satellites. They probably made him hallucinate. > The leaders in these orgs have huge egos that don't like to be double-crossed, and despite it not making sense long term for their business, they are perfectly safe to retaliate using these methods and choose to do so. I’m pretty sure the guys at OpenAI don’t care.
- liamwire 2y agoLudicrous. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, etc.
- catspurring 2y agoThis reminds me a bit of the murder, also initially called a suicide, of actor Sushant Singh Rajput, also a very intelligent young Indian man living in Mumbai at the time (2020).He was felt to be a threat due to his extreme talents, intelligence, integrity and innocence to the evil that surrounded him. Bollywood Mafia. Tragic. My guess with this young man, now a hero, is that E.Musk set it up then donated 10,000. annon. to the family. People need to speak up publicly that this was NOT A SUICIDE. Protests in S.F. are in order. There needs to be an investigation.