12 ms·

EU law mandating universal chargers for devices comes into force

276 points by belter 2y ago

zzo38computer 2y ago
See gemini://bbs.geminispace.org/u/stack/23176 for some other notes about USB, including some notes about charging with USB-C, and about the regulations in EU.
- noname120 2y ago
  Readable link: https://portal.mozz.us/gemini/bbs.geminispace.org/u/stack/23176 https://portal.mozz.us/gemini/bbs.geminispace.org/u/stack/23... TL;DR — short blog post where the author complains that USB-C cables are not equivalent. No technical information or dive whatsoever, and nothing about EU regulations. Definitely wasn't worth figuring out how to access gemini://.
mentalgear 2y ago
It took a decade, but the EU has finally achieved what no other major union of countries has done: mandating a single universal connector. As the world's largest single consumer market (500 million people), this decision sets a global standard, with the rest of the world following suit. The delay was largely due to intense lobbying from manufacturers, especially Apple, which profited significantly from licensing their proprietary Lightning port. Next up on the EU's list for 2026: Easily Changeable Batteries (you know, what every cell phone 20 years ago had before Apple).
- tgma 2y ago
  > profited significantly from licensing their proprietary Lightning port. How significant? Doubtful it moves the needle for Apple. People often forget Lightning is much superior to microUSB which was the alternative at the time (also mechanically superior to USB-C), and that Apple was instrumental in widespread USB-C adoption by taking a heat for the longest time on their butterfly MacBooks. And yes, while I am happy with USB-C today, I totally believe mandating it does stifle innovation. Imagine if we mandated microUSB in 2010.
  - randunel 2y ago
    Which other company sells short USB cables for £60?
    - tgma 2y ago
      Are you referring to Apple Thunderbolt cables? They are active cables with circuits in them. Otherwise, I am not sure which cable you are referring to that sells for that much. I understand as a consumer you get emotional and pissed, but even if true, that is a drop in the bucket and not "significant" profit for Apple. The true value of MFi licensing to Apple would be influencing the accessory market, not peanuts in dongle sales.
      - bmicraft 2y ago
        $5 Type c cables also have "circuits" in them. It's not that hard or expensive to implement an e-markee chip.
        tgma 2y ago
        If you think it is the same, then you are free not to purchase the cable from Apple. Either way to claim that such cable constitutes "significant" revenue to Apple Inc. is just hyperbolic/preposterous. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LBWnb0ZIlEA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LBWnb0ZIlEA
        econ 2y ago
        The revenue is in one more chain locking the user into the ecosystem. Hard to quantify.
        randunel 2y ago
        You're taking things literally, but the point is that everything is overpriced with apple and they're getting away with it because of the cult following they've cultured and are now milking. In my previous comment, I simply picked one of the ridiculous things cult followers pay for. They're going to keep milking their followers no matter how ridiculous each point seems when someone puts it in writing. That's how "the needle moves".
- alkonaut 2y ago
  I’m happy to have batteries glued to my smartphone (replaceable, but only in the sense the main logic board is replaceable) if it saves even a few % in weight, rigidity or how waterproof it is. The times when phones had battery hatches were the dark ages. I used 2-3 batteries in every smartphone I used and the replacement was always cheap ($50 or so). That’s enough. Adding the possibility to user-replace it for half that by adding some design compromise like a hatch wouldn’t be interesting to consumers. For every battery replaced, how many screens are replaced? 3? Yet no one seems to be talking about making it easier for end users to replace screens?
  - josho 2y ago
    The real next step is standardizing battery sizes. Think of all the other gadgets that have replaceable batteries. (Eg. Power tools) Most of those batteries are standard at the wholesale level. But a thin plastic layer added to house the battery makes it proprietary due to the connection interface. And now it’s a world of incompatible batteries and price gouging for replacement batteries.
    - tgma 2y ago
      I guess the real next step is to keep selling thick old devices as the EU SKU and modern innovative stuff to the rest of the world. Apple already has to do that on the software side for their AI features. Given the current GDP/capita trajectory of the EU, that is likely all they will be able to afford anyway. :)
      - Rexxar 2y ago
        I recommend you to read this Aesop's fable: https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Fables_of_Æsop_(Jacobs)/The_Dog_and_the_Wolf https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Fables_of_Æsop_(Jacobs)/T...
        tgma 2y ago
        Except your analogy does not hold because you can simply choose not to buy the product with the connector you don't like or can no longer afford as a result of socialism. It appears much harder to opt out of said socialism without leaving the country though, so read that again with this pretext perhaps?
- oulipo 2y ago
  At least for e-bike battery, that's precisely what we're building at https://get.gouach.com https://get.gouach.com :)
- oloila 2y ago
  Every battery is changeable. The fact that you can't replace them without a screwdriver and a heat gun doesn't make them irreplaceable. You're also unlikely to fix the TV, but you have no questions about it.
  - ravendug 2y ago
    This is stating the obvious without addressing the point. It is implicit that we are discussing user replaceable batteries. Your average user does not own a heat gun or the knowledge of how to use it to replace their own battery. Removing the requirement for the majority of users to have to take their phone to a technician to do the replacement will undoubtedly result in less eWaste. To the best of my knowledge, my TV does not contain a consumable battery which is core to its primary function. Sure the display panel and other components may have a finite lifetime but these are long enough to not be considered consumables by either consumers or manufacturers like batteries are.
    - burnerthrow008 2y ago
      I would wager that at least 50% of the population owns a heat gun. They just call it something different.
    - oloila 2y ago
      User-replaceable batteries will require additional space on your phone's body. I'm not willing to trade convenience for a rare battery replacement case. If you want - you can buy modular phones, pay for that, don't force other people And I'll go and pay a couple dozen bucks for this work, like all normal people. But eco-activists are starting to say that eWaste is caused by non-replaceable batteries, not by the obsolescence of devices. No one will change the battery in an outdated device, even if it is replaceable.
      - arez 2y ago
        eWaste is caused by all kinds of things and one thing that is easily solvable is replaceable batteries. I also hope that it will be forced for all phones, people shouldn't be able to pay a little extra to destroy the planet
- Stevvo 2y ago
  "As the world's largest single consumer market (500 million people)" What, China doesn't exist? India too?
  - goodpoint 2y ago
    On HN only US exists.
  - wqaatwt 2y ago
    Europeans still have significantly more money and therefore consume more than the Chinese. India is not even remotely close because of how poor it is.
- speleding 2y ago
  Those changeable batteries were horribly unreliable! I've had over a dozen different brand of phones and eventually they all started to black out occasionally when the connections got corroded or otherwise loosened up. I really hope soldered batteries stay an option or I will be buying my phone outside the EU.
  - thomassmith65 2y ago
    Outside the EU, in many cases, device batteries will also be user-swappable. Companies like Apple greatly prefer (well, when they're not petulantly trying to show the EU who's boss) to ship one design to the whole world. It's a nuisance to have separate design processes, manufacturing processes, marketing materials, etc. This is why, once it became affordable, the entire industry started making auto-switching power supplies. Unless hardware manufacturers finagle a way to continue selling soldered batteries in the EU, user-swappable batteries will become the norm again.
- mensetmanusman 2y ago
  Apple profited from their phones, nothing was close to as good as lightning when it came out. They showed the world how nice it would be with a simple reversible charger. Thankfully usb c is standardized but it wouldn’t have happened nearly as quickly without Apple.
- frikskit 2y ago
  How is Europe the largest single consumer market at 500 million people? Are you unaware of China, and also India? What am I missing? Even if you measure in economic size and not population, you’re still wrong. I’m also curious, how and when will it be decided that it’s eventually time to move onto a new/better standard? If the law came into force 20 years ago, would we still be stuck with the standard of that time? Who decides when a new standard is worth upgrading? Edit: I see now others mentioned China already.
  - wqaatwt 2y ago
    They spend more per capita than the Chinese do? Are you unaware of that? Seems rather obvious.. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_consumer_markets https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_consumer_mar...
- eternityforest 2y ago
  I think part of the delay is just that USB-C didn't really take off for cheap devices until like 2018. Before that there was no connector that was suitable for a universal charger, we barely even knew if dynamic voltage negotiation was going to be safe or not(I remember thinking it was going to try devices with bugs). MicroUSB was craptastic, barrel jacks aren't voltage standardized in practice, but pretty much every average consumer adores USB-C. It's like a shining example of what tech can be. If you made a law requiring any other connector, people would probably be angry. We could probably learn to live with a barrel jack, but most likely wrong voltage connection accidents would have happened at least occasionally.
skerit 2y ago
I'm kind of annoyed none of the articles I've read about this have mentioned the agreement the European Commission made with several smartphone manufacturers back in 2009, which came into effect around 2011: that's when (most of) the manufacturers agreed to ditch proprietary connectors in favor of (micro-) usb. Sure, it wasn't a law. And we went from micro-usb to usb-c, but I've read so many articles claiming "the end of a drawer filled with different chargers is here!", when that basically already happened over 10 years ago. Some Flemish articles about this: https://www.standaard.be/cnt/dmf29062009_040 https://www.standaard.be/cnt/dmf29062009_040 https://www.standaard.be/cnt/dmf20110208_104 https://www.standaard.be/cnt/dmf20110208_104
oloila 2y ago
"State regulations" is a synonym for underdevelopment, which Europe already has enough of, thanks to previous regulations
- raverbashing 2y ago
  Yes because the pre-usb charging world was so great and innovative /s Hey remember when the Motorola Razr wouldn't charge on a regular USB port unless you had a specific driver (or had to use the actual charger?). Amazing innovation
  - oloila 2y ago
    Yes, all the innovations of today are the result of that wild world of that era. Before you become mature, you must have problems of growing up No one regulated the number of mobile operating systems, and there were really many of them, even before the era of smartphones. Now there are 2 main ones and a couple of outsiders, all the rest died in the competitive struggle
    - raverbashing 2y ago
      Except most of that "innovation" didn't move to sane connectors by themselves, it was due to exactly the same pressure from the EU, that was beginning to propose such regulation The only manufacturer that didn't do anything about it was Apple
nickfromseattle 2y ago
My laptop, phone and headphones are USB-C. Now give me USB-C on my watch, face trimmer, electric salt/pepper shakers, and every other gadget.
- sgerenser 2y ago
  Electric salt/pepper shakers!? This is a thing I did not know existed.
  - TiredOfLife 2y ago
    I knew about electric grinders (battery powered), but I am now curious about electric shakers.
octacat 2y ago
am I the only one who do not like usb-c-s? the one on macbooks is nice, but the one on samsungs screams it is not reliable (I have 3 phones with the same issue of not working port). Something with two simple pins would be nicer. Or make usb-c standard, that would still charge, even if port is broken/not perfectly aligned. Like a fallback to several pins. Also, the rigid cables on usb-c often break (maybe that is by design, but)...
workfromspace 2y ago
Everyone is picking on Apple on this, but they're not my biggest problem about non-standard chargers. - Xbox Series X: Controller charging cable's Xbox side is Type-A. In fact, no Type-C on Xbox AFAIR - All my travel phones (cheap, non-android), -including 2 Nokias- chargers are USB Mini - My headphones: Type A - JBL portable speakers: Type mini
out_of_protocol 2y ago
Nothing about USB-PD in the law? Charging at 5W is not funny
- Const-me 2y ago
  I’m not sure it matters; I hope market economy should do the rest. I believe it’s slightly cheaper to manufacture a device with a single USB-C port which supports PD, compared to a device with two ports, one 5W USB-C and some other port for faster charging. A reason to not demand USB-PD, such law would prevent upgrades to later better version of that thing.
  - orra 2y ago
    > A reason to not demand USB-PD, such law would prevent upgrades to later better version of that thing. Can we apply some common sense please? You're right that not allowing revised standards would be silly. So, they simply update the law to reference newer versions of the standard. https://eur-lex.europa.eu/eli/reg_del/2023/1717/oj https://eur-lex.europa.eu/eli/reg_del/2023/1717/oj
    - cortesoft 2y ago
      How is a better standard going to be developed, though? Manufacturers aren't going to innovate, since they aren't allowed to sell anything besides USB-C.... so who is going to do the research and development for better designs, and how are we going to compare different possible improvements if manufacturers aren't allowed to try out anything new?
      - rocqua 2y ago
        Stabdards development is very much done to push regulators to adapt new things. The incentive is either to be able to develop new products that give a reason to upgrade, or royalties from the standard, or patent license money.
      - robin_reala 2y ago
polski-g 2y ago
Would be nice if this was extended to almost all products, using PD instead of the 5W. I have 20 different barrel plug wall warts in a crate used for 20 different routers, switches, and other misc DC-powered products.
- transpute 2y ago
  Fixed voltage PD-to-barrel cables help fill the gap.
  - vvanders 2y ago
    If your voltage matches one of the PD levels they work okay but many common voltages like 12v usually end up being very charger dependent. I've got one of the 12v pd triggers that on 9/10 of the PD enabled charges I've used just drops to 9v.
    - transpute 2y ago
      For auditing real-world behavior, some USB-c cables (and interposers) have tiny displays to report live voltage/current.
  - semi-extrinsic 2y ago
    Wow, TIL, thank you! I had thought briefly that something like this should exist, but then dismissed the thought, since such devices would be too much to hope for in the current environment of corporate enshittification. Slight amount of faith in humanity restored.
    - TeMPOraL 2y ago
      TBH, wall warts with voltage selector and 10+ detachable types of barrel connectors predate corporate enshittification, which is probably what makes PD variant possible.
    - numpad0 2y ago
      Fun-busting fact: 12V output was removed from USB-PD spec at some point, and not every chargers support it.
iagooar 2y ago
We are saved now.
codeulike 2y ago
Recently bought an ipad mini 6th gen and I notice that although it seems to have a USB-C charge port, if you use a regular old USB-C to USB-A cable and wall-wart it only charges to 75%. You have to use the apple-supplied USB-C (at both ends) cable to charge to 100%. Not sure what is going on there exactly but it seems like malicious compliance.
- newdee 2y ago
  I have a number of quality, 3rd party USB PD rated cables which work without issue on iPhone 16, iPad Mini 6g, MacBook Pro. Both with and without 1st party chargers. Admittedly the options for consumers in the USB-C space are a confusing mess, but I’ve never had problems with stuff from brands like Ugreen or Anker where USB-PD support is specifically advertised.
- youngtaff 2y ago
  I’ve got a 6th gen iPad Mini, it charges to 100% using an Anker charger and no-name USB A-C cable
- huijzer 2y ago
  Sounds great. Very good charger for battery life.
  - delichon 2y ago
    Agree. I bought a "Chargie" just to get this feature, and it doesn't work with my wireless chargers worth a darn. I would pay at least $40 x 5 units for chargers that reliably stop at 75% with no software required.
    - 01HNNWZ0MV43FF 2y ago
      What? Isn't that a function of the device? The only alternative would be to start discharging at 75%, and I don't want my batteries to constantly cycle while plugged in. I leave them plugged in so they'll run off of wall power.
ggreer 2y ago
I understand the reasoning behind this law, but I'm not sure if it's a good idea in the long term. Had the EU passed a similar law a decade ago, they would be stuck on mini or micro USB today. There will probably be some plug that is superior to USB-C at some point. How will the EU switch to it? Only the big players (Apple, Samsung, Sony, etc) have the power to lobby for a change. If the goal of this law is to reduce electronic waste, it seems like a better solution would be to tax electronic waste. That would discourage other kinds of e-waste (like those adapters for micro SD cards) while still letting manufacturers to choose other connectors for niche use cases. It would also make it possible for companies to move to a new standard without waiting for the EU to allow it.
- freehorse 2y ago
  Well, considering the messy state of the different charging ports, that would not have been a bad idea either. I do not think it would have stopped usb-c from taking over, in the same way that the current legislation does not prevent revising it. Standardisation is a good thing over all, and, for good or for worse, it often requires governmental entities to move it forward. If anything, it also creates a leveling field that promotes innovation for what really matters. Only big tech love the alternative, as part of sustaining an oligopolic status.
  - wqaatwt 2y ago
    > do not think it would have stopped usb-c Why? > in the same way that the current legislation does not prevent revising it. How would that work? USB-C became widespread because manufacturers gradually started adding it to their devices instead of micro-USB/whatever. As far as I understand that would be illegal now? So how could any new standard gain any traction?
- gjsman-1000 2y ago
  Easy, you have a USB-C port on the top of your phone and the proprietary port on the bottom, duh. - EU regulators
- mavhc 2y ago
  Do you assume laws cannot be updated?
lucubratory 2y ago
Praying to God that this means I can get a USB-C Kindle Oasis at some point in my life.
- n144q 2y ago
  > "all of our devices are touch-forward which is what our customers are comfortable with." https://www.theverge.com/2024/10/16/24272009/amazon-discontinues-kindle-oasis-physical-buttons https://www.theverge.com/2024/10/16/24272009/amazon-disconti... (which I consider as complete nonsense.)
  - jsheard 2y ago
    Kobo still has you covered if you want physical buttons and USB-C, at least.
    - n144q 2y ago
      Will consider that when this one dies. The problem is that it doesn't, and works just as well as 5 years ago.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- paxys 2y ago
  You won't. The Oasis line has been discontinued.
- cyberax 2y ago
  I suggest de-Kindle-ing yourself. Kobo or anything else with Koreader is great. I had contacts with people in the Kindle unit (I used to work at Amazon), and apparently the focus is on making as much profit as possible. So the Kindle ecosystem is probably going to be on the downwards spiral pretty soon.
dvh 2y ago
So... (looks over the shoulder) ... what do you guys think about omitting 5k1 pull-up resistors on CC1/CC2 pins?
- sschueller 2y ago
  If you leave those off you won't get any power sent to your device.
  - qwe----3 2y ago
    If you connect it to a USB A with an adapter it will work, right?
    - MaxikCZ 2y ago
      Wiat, I recently obtained a thermal camera with USB C that charges only woth USB A -> USB C cable, but not with any C->C cable. Am I understanding correctly that adding a pullup resistor to the camera could solve it?
      - sschueller 2y ago
        The USB-C spec added cc1 and cc2 which allow a device to tell the host what voltage to provide. Since not all devices need special voltages and an extra IC cost money there is the option to tie both cc1 and cc2 to a 5.1K pulldown resistor each. This tells the host to deliver 5V at max 3A. The maker of your device like many just switched the connector from microUSB to USB-C not reading the spec. So yes, if you add 2 pulldown 5.1k resistors your device should also charge off a USB-C host. That may however not be worth the effort as to how small USB-C connectors pin footprints can be.
    - sschueller 2y ago
      Yes. USB A has no cc pins so it will always provide 5V but it may not provide the full 3A which USB-C will.
    - hashworks 2y ago
nemo44x 2y ago
[flagged]
- Dries007 2y ago
  The same thing existed for micro USB before but Apple could not agree to that or a new standard, so the EU said "USB-C". The law provides for upgrades and mandates compliance with the spec, including PD. If the spec upgrades, the law does so automatically. This is a good thing.
  - fiddlerwoaroof 2y ago
    USB-C is a horrible standard to consolidate on because of all the confusion about various sorts of USB-C cables (with exactly the same physical connectors) and thunderbolt cables. Similarly, I’m glad Tesla convinced all the other American manufacturers to go with NACS for the American market because the CCS plugs are monstrosities.
    - ThatPlayer 2y ago
      Those aren't really going to have an effect on the charging though. This standardization is only concerned about charging. So no one is going to pick a theoretical "USB-D" that requires every cable to be able to carry 40 gb/s to be a standard. I don't need a 40 gb/s cable to charge a battery pack.
      - alistairSH 2y ago
        I have at least two devices that are “USB-C” for charging but will only work with USB-A to USB-C cables. USB-C wall warts seem to need a handshake the device doesn’t do. So I still can’t throw out my old wall warts and cables. It’s terrible.
        ThatPlayer 2y ago
        It can be done with 2 resistors. It's kinda required because of the same port on both ends. If I plug a battery into a phone, should the phone charge the battery or should the battery charge the phone?
smarkov 2y ago
This is a step in the right direction but still doesn't address my biggest concern with e-waste - the battery. Because almost none of the electronics you buy come with a replaceable battery, the second you buy something and use it on a regular basis it's destined to die and be thrown out within the next 4-8ish years due to the battery degrading and becoming increasingly more dangerous to keep around. Something that might be in perfect working condition and could be used for another 10 years has to be thrown out because of one single component. I understand that batteries come in all shapes, sizes, capacities, yada yada, but imagine if we had standard rechargeable batteries like we have standard non-rechargeable batteries and things were built in a way where you could easily replace batteries like we could on phones a decade ago. You would double or triple the lifespan of a ton of things.
- edflsafoiewq 2y ago
  EU regulations requiring portable batteries to be removable/replaceable by the end-user take effect February 18, 2027.
  - maeil 2y ago
    I'll believe it when I see it. With the way the EU has been going, good chance it will get shelved before it goes into effect.
    - Kbelicius 2y ago
      What other rules have been shelved after the date of it coming to effect have been announced?
  - Someone 2y ago
    That is not 100% correct. The wording (https://www.europarl.europa.eu/RegData/docs_autres_institutions/commission_europeenne/com/2020/0798/COM_COM(2020)0798_EN.pdf https://www.europarl.europa.eu/RegData/docs_autres_instituti..., page 55) is “portable batteries incorporated in appliances shall be readily removable and replaceable by end users or by independent operators”
bosswipe 2y ago
I worry about the durability of USB C ports. I have 4 laptops >5 years old with loose USB C ports, Apple and HP brands, and yes i have cleaned them looking for lint. I don't know if it's these specific laptops or if the port is designed for obsolescence.
sylware 2y ago
next, restore noscript/basic (x)html interop on all critical/utility web sites.
- remram 2y ago
  And remove the need for cookie warnings on official government websites. Like, why are you using tracking so invasive that it needs the warning, on a government site.
  - sylware 2y ago
    All that to avoid a cryptographic session id in the URLs being displayed in the web browser address bar... and the user does not care. Sad.
WhyNotHugo 2y ago
I wonder what this means for the iPhone SE (3rd gen). It's still in production, will they stop selling it in the EU?
- makeitdouble 2y ago
  Yes https://www.theverge.com/2024/12/28/24330733/apple-pulls-lightning-based-devices-from-european-stores https://www.theverge.com/2024/12/28/24330733/apple-pulls-lig...
w00kie 2y ago
All this talk of "universal chargers" gets on my nerves: you're not mandating anything about chargers, just the cable connections. Phone chargers have already been made universal for years, they're all USB-A or C. Stop saying we're revolutionizing the charger industry, we're just standardizing the fucking cable.
- humptybumpty 2y ago
  This regulation has been known about and in the works a long time, so it drove device manufacturers to unify their devices over their model generational upgrades leading up to this moment. They didn’t do it voluntarely. Smooth transition was the intent - not costly surprise for manufacturers over night. Remember, we started from: - USB-A - Micro-USB - Mini-USB - USB-C - Lightning
fredski42 2y ago
Nobody seems to be talking about the port in the charger itself. Does the regulation also specify USB-C for the other side?
- aio2 2y ago
  Great question, I have never noticed that.
- Y-bar 2y ago
  The European Commission has a section in the Q&A about that[1] where they say that the charger side of things will be regulated in the Ecodesign Regulation. Ecodesign will regulate things like power delivery, which includes charger and PoE efficiency and characteristics. 1 https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/qanda_21_4614 https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/qanda_...
userbinator 2y ago
Instead of mandating something straightforward like fixed-voltage barrel plugs, they settled on horribly overengineered and complex USB-C. Typical bureaucracy. All we needed was the equivalent of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEC_60320 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEC_60320 for low voltage devices.
- gsliepen 2y ago
  USB-C is already a de-facto standard, supports a wide range of voltages and with enough current to be able to charge even beefy laptops. You also don't have to support all the complexity; if you just want to power a simple device that needs 5V with at most 1A or so, then you only need two resistors on that device. Sure, it has some issues in some of the more complex cases (mostly because not all USB cables have all the wires they should), but I don't see any alternative that will give an overall better experience.
- progbits 2y ago
  So my phone would need a power connector and a separate data connector? No thanks. This bureaucracy has only standardized something everyone except a single stubborn, different-thinking company was already using for years.
  - userbinator 2y ago
    Phones can stay with USB like the vast majority were already using. I'm referring to laptops, where a 20V barrel plug was already a de-facto standard, and other devices that have no business being anywhere near USB. everyone except a single stubborn, different-thinking company ...and if the only purpose of this law was to go after one company (which I personally don't agree with the decisions of, but this is the wrong way to do it), that reflects even worse on the bureaucracy.
    - Kbelicius 2y ago
      > Phones can stay with USB like the vast majority were already using. You are forgetting that the stance of EU was known for more than a decade, if not two, at this point so when you say "were already using" you are actually saying "they were aware that this day would come so the majority agreed on using USB". > I'm referring to laptops, where a 20V barrel plug was already a de-facto standard What do you mean by standard? These connectors come in various sizes and pin configurations, there is no standard to speak of. I don't think that I've ever seen laptops of different manufacturers to be able to use the same charger.

276 points by belter 2y ago

See gemini://bbs.geminispace.org/u/stack/23176 for some other notes about USB, including some notes about charging with USB-C, and about the regulations in EU.

noname120 2y ago
Readable link: https://portal.mozz.us/gemini/bbs.geminispace.org/u/stack/23176 https://portal.mozz.us/gemini/bbs.geminispace.org/u/stack/23... TL;DR — short blog post where the author complains that USB-C cables are not equivalent. No technical information or dive whatsoever, and nothing about EU regulations. Definitely wasn't worth figuring out how to access gemini://.

mentalgear 2y ago

It took a decade, but the EU has finally achieved what no other major union of countries has done: mandating a single universal connector. As the world's largest single consumer market (500 million people), this decision sets a global standard, with the rest of the world following suit. The delay was largely due to intense lobbying from manufacturers, especially Apple, which profited significantly from licensing their proprietary Lightning port. Next up on the EU's list for 2026: Easily Changeable Batteries (you know, what every cell phone 20 years ago had before Apple).

tgma 2y ago
> profited significantly from licensing their proprietary Lightning port. How significant? Doubtful it moves the needle for Apple. People often forget Lightning is much superior to microUSB which was the alternative at the time (also mechanically superior to USB-C), and that Apple was instrumental in widespread USB-C adoption by taking a heat for the longest time on their butterfly MacBooks. And yes, while I am happy with USB-C today, I totally believe mandating it does stifle innovation. Imagine if we mandated microUSB in 2010.
- randunel 2y ago
  Which other company sells short USB cables for £60?
  - tgma 2y ago
    Are you referring to Apple Thunderbolt cables? They are active cables with circuits in them. Otherwise, I am not sure which cable you are referring to that sells for that much. I understand as a consumer you get emotional and pissed, but even if true, that is a drop in the bucket and not "significant" profit for Apple. The true value of MFi licensing to Apple would be influencing the accessory market, not peanuts in dongle sales.
    - bmicraft 2y ago
      $5 Type c cables also have "circuits" in them. It's not that hard or expensive to implement an e-markee chip.
      - tgma 2y ago
        If you think it is the same, then you are free not to purchase the cable from Apple. Either way to claim that such cable constitutes "significant" revenue to Apple Inc. is just hyperbolic/preposterous. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LBWnb0ZIlEA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LBWnb0ZIlEA
        econ 2y ago
        The revenue is in one more chain locking the user into the ecosystem. Hard to quantify.
        randunel 2y ago
        You're taking things literally, but the point is that everything is overpriced with apple and they're getting away with it because of the cult following they've cultured and are now milking. In my previous comment, I simply picked one of the ridiculous things cult followers pay for. They're going to keep milking their followers no matter how ridiculous each point seems when someone puts it in writing. That's how "the needle moves".
alkonaut 2y ago
I’m happy to have batteries glued to my smartphone (replaceable, but only in the sense the main logic board is replaceable) if it saves even a few % in weight, rigidity or how waterproof it is. The times when phones had battery hatches were the dark ages. I used 2-3 batteries in every smartphone I used and the replacement was always cheap ($50 or so). That’s enough. Adding the possibility to user-replace it for half that by adding some design compromise like a hatch wouldn’t be interesting to consumers. For every battery replaced, how many screens are replaced? 3? Yet no one seems to be talking about making it easier for end users to replace screens?
- josho 2y ago
  The real next step is standardizing battery sizes. Think of all the other gadgets that have replaceable batteries. (Eg. Power tools) Most of those batteries are standard at the wholesale level. But a thin plastic layer added to house the battery makes it proprietary due to the connection interface. And now it’s a world of incompatible batteries and price gouging for replacement batteries.
  - tgma 2y ago
    I guess the real next step is to keep selling thick old devices as the EU SKU and modern innovative stuff to the rest of the world. Apple already has to do that on the software side for their AI features. Given the current GDP/capita trajectory of the EU, that is likely all they will be able to afford anyway. :)
    - Rexxar 2y ago
      I recommend you to read this Aesop's fable: https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Fables_of_Æsop_(Jacobs)/The_Dog_and_the_Wolf https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Fables_of_Æsop_(Jacobs)/T...
      - tgma 2y ago
        Except your analogy does not hold because you can simply choose not to buy the product with the connector you don't like or can no longer afford as a result of socialism. It appears much harder to opt out of said socialism without leaving the country though, so read that again with this pretext perhaps?
oulipo 2y ago
At least for e-bike battery, that's precisely what we're building at https://get.gouach.com https://get.gouach.com :)
oloila 2y ago
Every battery is changeable. The fact that you can't replace them without a screwdriver and a heat gun doesn't make them irreplaceable. You're also unlikely to fix the TV, but you have no questions about it.
- ravendug 2y ago
  This is stating the obvious without addressing the point. It is implicit that we are discussing user replaceable batteries. Your average user does not own a heat gun or the knowledge of how to use it to replace their own battery. Removing the requirement for the majority of users to have to take their phone to a technician to do the replacement will undoubtedly result in less eWaste. To the best of my knowledge, my TV does not contain a consumable battery which is core to its primary function. Sure the display panel and other components may have a finite lifetime but these are long enough to not be considered consumables by either consumers or manufacturers like batteries are.
  - burnerthrow008 2y ago
    I would wager that at least 50% of the population owns a heat gun. They just call it something different.
  - oloila 2y ago
    User-replaceable batteries will require additional space on your phone's body. I'm not willing to trade convenience for a rare battery replacement case. If you want - you can buy modular phones, pay for that, don't force other people And I'll go and pay a couple dozen bucks for this work, like all normal people. But eco-activists are starting to say that eWaste is caused by non-replaceable batteries, not by the obsolescence of devices. No one will change the battery in an outdated device, even if it is replaceable.
    - arez 2y ago
      eWaste is caused by all kinds of things and one thing that is easily solvable is replaceable batteries. I also hope that it will be forced for all phones, people shouldn't be able to pay a little extra to destroy the planet
Stevvo 2y ago
"As the world's largest single consumer market (500 million people)" What, China doesn't exist? India too?
- goodpoint 2y ago
  On HN only US exists.
- wqaatwt 2y ago
  Europeans still have significantly more money and therefore consume more than the Chinese. India is not even remotely close because of how poor it is.
speleding 2y ago
Those changeable batteries were horribly unreliable! I've had over a dozen different brand of phones and eventually they all started to black out occasionally when the connections got corroded or otherwise loosened up. I really hope soldered batteries stay an option or I will be buying my phone outside the EU.
- thomassmith65 2y ago
  Outside the EU, in many cases, device batteries will also be user-swappable. Companies like Apple greatly prefer (well, when they're not petulantly trying to show the EU who's boss) to ship one design to the whole world. It's a nuisance to have separate design processes, manufacturing processes, marketing materials, etc. This is why, once it became affordable, the entire industry started making auto-switching power supplies. Unless hardware manufacturers finagle a way to continue selling soldered batteries in the EU, user-swappable batteries will become the norm again.
mensetmanusman 2y ago
Apple profited from their phones, nothing was close to as good as lightning when it came out. They showed the world how nice it would be with a simple reversible charger. Thankfully usb c is standardized but it wouldn’t have happened nearly as quickly without Apple.
frikskit 2y ago
How is Europe the largest single consumer market at 500 million people? Are you unaware of China, and also India? What am I missing? Even if you measure in economic size and not population, you’re still wrong. I’m also curious, how and when will it be decided that it’s eventually time to move onto a new/better standard? If the law came into force 20 years ago, would we still be stuck with the standard of that time? Who decides when a new standard is worth upgrading? Edit: I see now others mentioned China already.
- wqaatwt 2y ago
  They spend more per capita than the Chinese do? Are you unaware of that? Seems rather obvious.. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_consumer_markets https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_consumer_mar...
eternityforest 2y ago
I think part of the delay is just that USB-C didn't really take off for cheap devices until like 2018. Before that there was no connector that was suitable for a universal charger, we barely even knew if dynamic voltage negotiation was going to be safe or not(I remember thinking it was going to try devices with bugs). MicroUSB was craptastic, barrel jacks aren't voltage standardized in practice, but pretty much every average consumer adores USB-C. It's like a shining example of what tech can be. If you made a law requiring any other connector, people would probably be angry. We could probably learn to live with a barrel jack, but most likely wrong voltage connection accidents would have happened at least occasionally.

skerit 2y ago

I'm kind of annoyed none of the articles I've read about this have mentioned the agreement the European Commission made with several smartphone manufacturers back in 2009, which came into effect around 2011: that's when (most of) the manufacturers agreed to ditch proprietary connectors in favor of (micro-) usb. Sure, it wasn't a law. And we went from micro-usb to usb-c, but I've read so many articles claiming "the end of a drawer filled with different chargers is here!", when that basically already happened over 10 years ago. Some Flemish articles about this: https://www.standaard.be/cnt/dmf29062009_040 https://www.standaard.be/cnt/dmf29062009_040 https://www.standaard.be/cnt/dmf20110208_104 https://www.standaard.be/cnt/dmf20110208_104

oloila 2y ago

"State regulations" is a synonym for underdevelopment, which Europe already has enough of, thanks to previous regulations

raverbashing 2y ago
Yes because the pre-usb charging world was so great and innovative /s Hey remember when the Motorola Razr wouldn't charge on a regular USB port unless you had a specific driver (or had to use the actual charger?). Amazing innovation
- oloila 2y ago
  Yes, all the innovations of today are the result of that wild world of that era. Before you become mature, you must have problems of growing up No one regulated the number of mobile operating systems, and there were really many of them, even before the era of smartphones. Now there are 2 main ones and a couple of outsiders, all the rest died in the competitive struggle
  - raverbashing 2y ago
    Except most of that "innovation" didn't move to sane connectors by themselves, it was due to exactly the same pressure from the EU, that was beginning to propose such regulation The only manufacturer that didn't do anything about it was Apple

nickfromseattle 2y ago

My laptop, phone and headphones are USB-C. Now give me USB-C on my watch, face trimmer, electric salt/pepper shakers, and every other gadget.

sgerenser 2y ago
Electric salt/pepper shakers!? This is a thing I did not know existed.
- TiredOfLife 2y ago
  I knew about electric grinders (battery powered), but I am now curious about electric shakers.

octacat 2y ago

am I the only one who do not like usb-c-s? the one on macbooks is nice, but the one on samsungs screams it is not reliable (I have 3 phones with the same issue of not working port). Something with two simple pins would be nicer. Or make usb-c standard, that would still charge, even if port is broken/not perfectly aligned. Like a fallback to several pins. Also, the rigid cables on usb-c often break (maybe that is by design, but)...

workfromspace 2y ago

Everyone is picking on Apple on this, but they're not my biggest problem about non-standard chargers. - Xbox Series X: Controller charging cable's Xbox side is Type-A. In fact, no Type-C on Xbox AFAIR - All my travel phones (cheap, non-android), -including 2 Nokias- chargers are USB Mini - My headphones: Type A - JBL portable speakers: Type mini

out_of_protocol 2y ago

Nothing about USB-PD in the law? Charging at 5W is not funny

Const-me 2y ago
I’m not sure it matters; I hope market economy should do the rest. I believe it’s slightly cheaper to manufacture a device with a single USB-C port which supports PD, compared to a device with two ports, one 5W USB-C and some other port for faster charging. A reason to not demand USB-PD, such law would prevent upgrades to later better version of that thing.
- orra 2y ago
  > A reason to not demand USB-PD, such law would prevent upgrades to later better version of that thing. Can we apply some common sense please? You're right that not allowing revised standards would be silly. So, they simply update the law to reference newer versions of the standard. https://eur-lex.europa.eu/eli/reg_del/2023/1717/oj https://eur-lex.europa.eu/eli/reg_del/2023/1717/oj
  - cortesoft 2y ago
    How is a better standard going to be developed, though? Manufacturers aren't going to innovate, since they aren't allowed to sell anything besides USB-C.... so who is going to do the research and development for better designs, and how are we going to compare different possible improvements if manufacturers aren't allowed to try out anything new?
    - rocqua 2y ago
      Stabdards development is very much done to push regulators to adapt new things. The incentive is either to be able to develop new products that give a reason to upgrade, or royalties from the standard, or patent license money.
    - robin_reala 2y ago

polski-g 2y ago

Would be nice if this was extended to almost all products, using PD instead of the 5W. I have 20 different barrel plug wall warts in a crate used for 20 different routers, switches, and other misc DC-powered products.

transpute 2y ago
Fixed voltage PD-to-barrel cables help fill the gap.
- vvanders 2y ago
  If your voltage matches one of the PD levels they work okay but many common voltages like 12v usually end up being very charger dependent. I've got one of the 12v pd triggers that on 9/10 of the PD enabled charges I've used just drops to 9v.
  - transpute 2y ago
    For auditing real-world behavior, some USB-c cables (and interposers) have tiny displays to report live voltage/current.
- semi-extrinsic 2y ago
  Wow, TIL, thank you! I had thought briefly that something like this should exist, but then dismissed the thought, since such devices would be too much to hope for in the current environment of corporate enshittification. Slight amount of faith in humanity restored.
  - TeMPOraL 2y ago
    TBH, wall warts with voltage selector and 10+ detachable types of barrel connectors predate corporate enshittification, which is probably what makes PD variant possible.
  - numpad0 2y ago
    Fun-busting fact: 12V output was removed from USB-PD spec at some point, and not every chargers support it.

iagooar 2y ago

We are saved now.

codeulike 2y ago

Recently bought an ipad mini 6th gen and I notice that although it seems to have a USB-C charge port, if you use a regular old USB-C to USB-A cable and wall-wart it only charges to 75%. You have to use the apple-supplied USB-C (at both ends) cable to charge to 100%. Not sure what is going on there exactly but it seems like malicious compliance.

newdee 2y ago
I have a number of quality, 3rd party USB PD rated cables which work without issue on iPhone 16, iPad Mini 6g, MacBook Pro. Both with and without 1st party chargers. Admittedly the options for consumers in the USB-C space are a confusing mess, but I’ve never had problems with stuff from brands like Ugreen or Anker where USB-PD support is specifically advertised.
youngtaff 2y ago
I’ve got a 6th gen iPad Mini, it charges to 100% using an Anker charger and no-name USB A-C cable
huijzer 2y ago
Sounds great. Very good charger for battery life.
- delichon 2y ago
  Agree. I bought a "Chargie" just to get this feature, and it doesn't work with my wireless chargers worth a darn. I would pay at least $40 x 5 units for chargers that reliably stop at 75% with no software required.
  - 01HNNWZ0MV43FF 2y ago
    What? Isn't that a function of the device? The only alternative would be to start discharging at 75%, and I don't want my batteries to constantly cycle while plugged in. I leave them plugged in so they'll run off of wall power.

ggreer 2y ago

I understand the reasoning behind this law, but I'm not sure if it's a good idea in the long term. Had the EU passed a similar law a decade ago, they would be stuck on mini or micro USB today. There will probably be some plug that is superior to USB-C at some point. How will the EU switch to it? Only the big players (Apple, Samsung, Sony, etc) have the power to lobby for a change. If the goal of this law is to reduce electronic waste, it seems like a better solution would be to tax electronic waste. That would discourage other kinds of e-waste (like those adapters for micro SD cards) while still letting manufacturers to choose other connectors for niche use cases. It would also make it possible for companies to move to a new standard without waiting for the EU to allow it.

freehorse 2y ago
Well, considering the messy state of the different charging ports, that would not have been a bad idea either. I do not think it would have stopped usb-c from taking over, in the same way that the current legislation does not prevent revising it. Standardisation is a good thing over all, and, for good or for worse, it often requires governmental entities to move it forward. If anything, it also creates a leveling field that promotes innovation for what really matters. Only big tech love the alternative, as part of sustaining an oligopolic status.
- wqaatwt 2y ago
  > do not think it would have stopped usb-c Why? > in the same way that the current legislation does not prevent revising it. How would that work? USB-C became widespread because manufacturers gradually started adding it to their devices instead of micro-USB/whatever. As far as I understand that would be illegal now? So how could any new standard gain any traction?
gjsman-1000 2y ago
Easy, you have a USB-C port on the top of your phone and the proprietary port on the bottom, duh. - EU regulators
mavhc 2y ago
Do you assume laws cannot be updated?

lucubratory 2y ago

Praying to God that this means I can get a USB-C Kindle Oasis at some point in my life.

n144q 2y ago
> "all of our devices are touch-forward which is what our customers are comfortable with." https://www.theverge.com/2024/10/16/24272009/amazon-discontinues-kindle-oasis-physical-buttons https://www.theverge.com/2024/10/16/24272009/amazon-disconti... (which I consider as complete nonsense.)
- jsheard 2y ago
  Kobo still has you covered if you want physical buttons and USB-C, at least.
  - n144q 2y ago
    Will consider that when this one dies. The problem is that it doesn't, and works just as well as 5 years ago.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
paxys 2y ago
You won't. The Oasis line has been discontinued.
cyberax 2y ago
I suggest de-Kindle-ing yourself. Kobo or anything else with Koreader is great. I had contacts with people in the Kindle unit (I used to work at Amazon), and apparently the focus is on making as much profit as possible. So the Kindle ecosystem is probably going to be on the downwards spiral pretty soon.

dvh 2y ago

So... (looks over the shoulder) ... what do you guys think about omitting 5k1 pull-up resistors on CC1/CC2 pins?

sschueller 2y ago
If you leave those off you won't get any power sent to your device.
- qwe----3 2y ago
  If you connect it to a USB A with an adapter it will work, right?
  - MaxikCZ 2y ago
    Wiat, I recently obtained a thermal camera with USB C that charges only woth USB A -> USB C cable, but not with any C->C cable. Am I understanding correctly that adding a pullup resistor to the camera could solve it?
    - sschueller 2y ago
      The USB-C spec added cc1 and cc2 which allow a device to tell the host what voltage to provide. Since not all devices need special voltages and an extra IC cost money there is the option to tie both cc1 and cc2 to a 5.1K pulldown resistor each. This tells the host to deliver 5V at max 3A. The maker of your device like many just switched the connector from microUSB to USB-C not reading the spec. So yes, if you add 2 pulldown 5.1k resistors your device should also charge off a USB-C host. That may however not be worth the effort as to how small USB-C connectors pin footprints can be.
  - sschueller 2y ago
    Yes. USB A has no cc pins so it will always provide 5V but it may not provide the full 3A which USB-C will.
  - hashworks 2y ago

nemo44x 2y ago

[flagged]

Dries007 2y ago
The same thing existed for micro USB before but Apple could not agree to that or a new standard, so the EU said "USB-C". The law provides for upgrades and mandates compliance with the spec, including PD. If the spec upgrades, the law does so automatically. This is a good thing.
- fiddlerwoaroof 2y ago
  USB-C is a horrible standard to consolidate on because of all the confusion about various sorts of USB-C cables (with exactly the same physical connectors) and thunderbolt cables. Similarly, I’m glad Tesla convinced all the other American manufacturers to go with NACS for the American market because the CCS plugs are monstrosities.
  - ThatPlayer 2y ago
    Those aren't really going to have an effect on the charging though. This standardization is only concerned about charging. So no one is going to pick a theoretical "USB-D" that requires every cable to be able to carry 40 gb/s to be a standard. I don't need a 40 gb/s cable to charge a battery pack.
    - alistairSH 2y ago
      I have at least two devices that are “USB-C” for charging but will only work with USB-A to USB-C cables. USB-C wall warts seem to need a handshake the device doesn’t do. So I still can’t throw out my old wall warts and cables. It’s terrible.
      - ThatPlayer 2y ago
        It can be done with 2 resistors. It's kinda required because of the same port on both ends. If I plug a battery into a phone, should the phone charge the battery or should the battery charge the phone?

smarkov 2y ago

This is a step in the right direction but still doesn't address my biggest concern with e-waste - the battery. Because almost none of the electronics you buy come with a replaceable battery, the second you buy something and use it on a regular basis it's destined to die and be thrown out within the next 4-8ish years due to the battery degrading and becoming increasingly more dangerous to keep around. Something that might be in perfect working condition and could be used for another 10 years has to be thrown out because of one single component. I understand that batteries come in all shapes, sizes, capacities, yada yada, but imagine if we had standard rechargeable batteries like we have standard non-rechargeable batteries and things were built in a way where you could easily replace batteries like we could on phones a decade ago. You would double or triple the lifespan of a ton of things.

edflsafoiewq 2y ago
EU regulations requiring portable batteries to be removable/replaceable by the end-user take effect February 18, 2027.
- maeil 2y ago
  I'll believe it when I see it. With the way the EU has been going, good chance it will get shelved before it goes into effect.
  - Kbelicius 2y ago
    What other rules have been shelved after the date of it coming to effect have been announced?
- Someone 2y ago
  That is not 100% correct. The wording (https://www.europarl.europa.eu/RegData/docs_autres_institutions/commission_europeenne/com/2020/0798/COM_COM(2020)0798_EN.pdf https://www.europarl.europa.eu/RegData/docs_autres_instituti..., page 55) is “portable batteries incorporated in appliances shall be readily removable and replaceable by end users or by independent operators”

bosswipe 2y ago

I worry about the durability of USB C ports. I have 4 laptops >5 years old with loose USB C ports, Apple and HP brands, and yes i have cleaned them looking for lint. I don't know if it's these specific laptops or if the port is designed for obsolescence.

sylware 2y ago

next, restore noscript/basic (x)html interop on all critical/utility web sites.

remram 2y ago
And remove the need for cookie warnings on official government websites. Like, why are you using tracking so invasive that it needs the warning, on a government site.
- sylware 2y ago
  All that to avoid a cryptographic session id in the URLs being displayed in the web browser address bar... and the user does not care. Sad.

WhyNotHugo 2y ago

I wonder what this means for the iPhone SE (3rd gen). It's still in production, will they stop selling it in the EU?

makeitdouble 2y ago
Yes https://www.theverge.com/2024/12/28/24330733/apple-pulls-lightning-based-devices-from-european-stores https://www.theverge.com/2024/12/28/24330733/apple-pulls-lig...

w00kie 2y ago

All this talk of "universal chargers" gets on my nerves: you're not mandating anything about chargers, just the cable connections. Phone chargers have already been made universal for years, they're all USB-A or C. Stop saying we're revolutionizing the charger industry, we're just standardizing the fucking cable.

humptybumpty 2y ago
This regulation has been known about and in the works a long time, so it drove device manufacturers to unify their devices over their model generational upgrades leading up to this moment. They didn’t do it voluntarely. Smooth transition was the intent - not costly surprise for manufacturers over night. Remember, we started from: - USB-A - Micro-USB - Mini-USB - USB-C - Lightning

fredski42 2y ago

Nobody seems to be talking about the port in the charger itself. Does the regulation also specify USB-C for the other side?

aio2 2y ago
Great question, I have never noticed that.
Y-bar 2y ago
The European Commission has a section in the Q&A about that[1] where they say that the charger side of things will be regulated in the Ecodesign Regulation. Ecodesign will regulate things like power delivery, which includes charger and PoE efficiency and characteristics. 1 https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/qanda_21_4614 https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/qanda_...

userbinator 2y ago

Instead of mandating something straightforward like fixed-voltage barrel plugs, they settled on horribly overengineered and complex USB-C. Typical bureaucracy. All we needed was the equivalent of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEC_60320 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEC_60320 for low voltage devices.

gsliepen 2y ago
USB-C is already a de-facto standard, supports a wide range of voltages and with enough current to be able to charge even beefy laptops. You also don't have to support all the complexity; if you just want to power a simple device that needs 5V with at most 1A or so, then you only need two resistors on that device. Sure, it has some issues in some of the more complex cases (mostly because not all USB cables have all the wires they should), but I don't see any alternative that will give an overall better experience.
progbits 2y ago
So my phone would need a power connector and a separate data connector? No thanks. This bureaucracy has only standardized something everyone except a single stubborn, different-thinking company was already using for years.
- userbinator 2y ago
  Phones can stay with USB like the vast majority were already using. I'm referring to laptops, where a 20V barrel plug was already a de-facto standard, and other devices that have no business being anywhere near USB. everyone except a single stubborn, different-thinking company ...and if the only purpose of this law was to go after one company (which I personally don't agree with the decisions of, but this is the wrong way to do it), that reflects even worse on the bureaucracy.
  - Kbelicius 2y ago
    > Phones can stay with USB like the vast majority were already using. You are forgetting that the stance of EU was known for more than a decade, if not two, at this point so when you say "were already using" you are actually saying "they were aware that this day would come so the majority agreed on using USB". > I'm referring to laptops, where a 20V barrel plug was already a de-facto standard What do you mean by standard? These connectors come in various sizes and pin configurations, there is no standard to speak of. I don't think that I've ever seen laptops of different manufacturers to be able to use the same charger.