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Just to clarify on the facts, as gathered from reddit threads: He wasn't trying to protest the dress code or make a scene, it wasn't on his mind at all. He ha

Just to clarify on the facts, as gathered from reddit threads: He wasn't trying to protest the dress code or make a scene, it wasn't on his mind at all. He had been out for an appearance with a sponsor during a break, then came back to the venue for the next round, and didn't notice that he was wearing jeans and it didn't cross his mind that that would be a violation. Then he was told to change, and there wasn't enough time for him to go do that before the upcoming round. He thought he was told he could do it either after that round or for the next day, but then was told he would be excluded from that round, and at that point he said f--- it and withdrew entirely. The controversy was about exactly how the penalty is imposed. The rule is a fine for the first violation and disqualification for multiple. It wasn't clear if his appearance for the day would count as one violation (so he could just incur the fine and wear correct clothing tomorrow), or if each round would be a separate violation. It also wasn't clear if he could play while in violation or would be excluded from each round until he changed. Precedent from other events wasn't clear for either of these. The headline of "disqualified" is wrong and did not happen - he chose to withdraw.

QuantumGood 2y ago
Additional info: • He chose not to contest it, for which there is a clear protocol, and simply withdrew. • Based on two previous well-publicized incidents, it DID cross his mind that it would be a violation.
- QuantumGood 2y ago
  ... and now FIDE has chosen to allow jeans in the remainder of the event. And it appears Magnus will play. "The principle is simple: it is still required to follow the official dress-code, but elegant minor deviations (that may, in particular, include appropriate jeans matching the jacket) are allowed."
  - QuantumGood 2y ago
    A key comment from Magnus: "They were saying that jeans were generally not allowed. If it's generally not allowed, that must mean that there must be exceptions. And if I, with a decent attempt at an outfit apart from that, didn't meet that exception, I don't see what would, frankly."
ngcc_hk 2y ago
Based on what you said, IMHO may I say this is just a way to disqualifying hime, as he cannot enter into the round in time. That is effective disqualifying. Do not know details but losing a whole round ... can he recover even. Hence, I still ok with disqualifying. I am not sure knowing the rule but really have jean ... it is crazy rule in any case.
- cjbprime 2y ago
  There was no time shortage -- he was asked to change with hours to do it and a hotel that was three minutes away. He said he was refusing "as a matter of principle", not that he didn't have enough time to change.
epgui 2y ago
The only part of this that is totally implausible is the notion that Magnus wouldn't be super familiar with the rules. I'm not saying I agree with the rule or the specific way it was applied... But Magnus definitely knows the rules. Edit: for people downvoting... Can you please explain how the world's best chess player of all times wouldn't be familiar with FIDE rules? How is that even plausible? All of the players who compete at these events know the rules.
- thelock85 2y ago
  Agreed. I’m just thinking about NFL players who have crazy wardrobe leeway in and out of games, but somehow adhere to the minutiae of game time uniform codes. Not because of the insane attention they put into their craft, but because of clear financial or competitive penalties for doing otherwise (that impacts people and time invested in them).
  - eszed 2y ago
    That's because the team's equipment managers lay all of their gear out for them. I doubt any player could confidently answer a minutae-level question about the league's uniform policy.
  - FrustratedMonky 2y ago
    Not totally true. All NFL teams have dress codes. Some of those players with flamboyant outfits actually pay fines every week. They justify the fines as part of the cost of promoting an individual brand over the team brand or image.
- wirrbel 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - beepbopboopp 2y ago
    How are you going to invent his intentions and then judge him for your inventions? This message board deserves better, the people deserve better.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
afro88 2y ago
This is silly. Surely a GM knows the rules. You can't say the facts are he wasn't doing it in protest or wasn't trying to make a scene. The facts are he violated the dress code rule and then withdrew when it was enforced. He then mentioned his FIDE alternative in the ensuing press coverage. Edit: also, on paper, him attending a sponsor event and then violating a rule at the competition because he "didn't have time to change" speaks volumes about his priorities.
- mvdtnz 2y ago
  What's "silly" is that such a dress code exists at all in 2024. What a bunch of uptight dorkwads.
  - conception 2y ago
    Dress-codes can be about more than morality. In a game of intense concentration having distracting clothing could be a distraction. It’s not like every professional sport doesn’t have a dress code.
    - barbazoo 2y ago
      > It is important to promote a good and positive image of chess. Attire worn during all phases of the championships and events should be in good taste and appropriate to such a prestigious chess event. That’s the “objective” according to https://www.fide.com/images/stories/NEWS_2013/FIDE/Proposal_of_Ms._B._Marinello_in_respect_of_the_dress_code.pdf https://www.fide.com/images/stories/NEWS_2013/FIDE/Proposal_....
      - hosh 2y ago
        And we'll see if FIDE will be seen as a preserver of traditional values or out of touch with the new generation of chess players.
        fwn 2y ago
        The primary impression that most of the contemporary world has of FIDE is probably one of corruption and power games that are completely detached from the game of chess. There are people who think that it can be reformed and there are people who don't think that FIDE can improve, but certainly no one argues that its past proves its commitment to professionalism. I'd say you'd be hard-pressed to find a worse performing global sport federation.
yuvalr1 2y ago
[flagged]
- RansomStark 2y ago
  > Facts can only be gathered from reliable sources. Source? How do you define reliable? Why is the authors identity important? Facts don't change because you know the authors name, or trust the source, or like the person telling lies. The idea that anonymous sources, or "untrusted" sources (for someones definition of trusted) cannot be the source of facts is gaining ground right now, and it needs to be pushed back on wherever it is seen. It's a lazy Ad hominem, and it's down right dangerous. I don't care if it's elected officials claiming Russian malinformation or a random chess thread, this is the hill I choose to die on.
  - sambeau 2y ago
    The tradition of journalists using anonymous sources doesn’t mean they use anonymous sources, it means that they know who the source is, considers them reliable, but agrees not to name them. Usually they require multiple independent sources. Unknown sources on the internet are usually not reliable. Anonymous sources should not be trusted, even when there are more than one saying the same thing. Bots and deliberate misinformation abound. This is not a hill you should die on as it’s a hill that can greatly harm democratic society.
    - verisimi 2y ago
      Is democratic society the hill to die on? Sources?
    - braincat31415 2y ago
      That's one possibility. The other possibility is that the journalist mentions anonymous sources because he/she does not have any and is simply making stuff up.
      - _w1tm 2y ago

QuantumGood 2y ago

Additional info: • He chose not to contest it, for which there is a clear protocol, and simply withdrew. • Based on two previous well-publicized incidents, it DID cross his mind that it would be a violation.

QuantumGood 2y ago
... and now FIDE has chosen to allow jeans in the remainder of the event. And it appears Magnus will play. "The principle is simple: it is still required to follow the official dress-code, but elegant minor deviations (that may, in particular, include appropriate jeans matching the jacket) are allowed."
- QuantumGood 2y ago
  A key comment from Magnus: "They were saying that jeans were generally not allowed. If it's generally not allowed, that must mean that there must be exceptions. And if I, with a decent attempt at an outfit apart from that, didn't meet that exception, I don't see what would, frankly."

ngcc_hk 2y ago

Based on what you said, IMHO may I say this is just a way to disqualifying hime, as he cannot enter into the round in time. That is effective disqualifying. Do not know details but losing a whole round ... can he recover even. Hence, I still ok with disqualifying. I am not sure knowing the rule but really have jean ... it is crazy rule in any case.

cjbprime 2y ago
There was no time shortage -- he was asked to change with hours to do it and a hotel that was three minutes away. He said he was refusing "as a matter of principle", not that he didn't have enough time to change.

epgui 2y ago

The only part of this that is totally implausible is the notion that Magnus wouldn't be super familiar with the rules. I'm not saying I agree with the rule or the specific way it was applied... But Magnus definitely knows the rules. Edit: for people downvoting... Can you please explain how the world's best chess player of all times wouldn't be familiar with FIDE rules? How is that even plausible? All of the players who compete at these events know the rules.

thelock85 2y ago
Agreed. I’m just thinking about NFL players who have crazy wardrobe leeway in and out of games, but somehow adhere to the minutiae of game time uniform codes. Not because of the insane attention they put into their craft, but because of clear financial or competitive penalties for doing otherwise (that impacts people and time invested in them).
- eszed 2y ago
  That's because the team's equipment managers lay all of their gear out for them. I doubt any player could confidently answer a minutae-level question about the league's uniform policy.
- FrustratedMonky 2y ago
  Not totally true. All NFL teams have dress codes. Some of those players with flamboyant outfits actually pay fines every week. They justify the fines as part of the cost of promoting an individual brand over the team brand or image.
wirrbel 2y ago
[flagged]
- beepbopboopp 2y ago
  How are you going to invent his intentions and then judge him for your inventions? This message board deserves better, the people deserve better.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

afro88 2y ago

This is silly. Surely a GM knows the rules. You can't say the facts are he wasn't doing it in protest or wasn't trying to make a scene. The facts are he violated the dress code rule and then withdrew when it was enforced. He then mentioned his FIDE alternative in the ensuing press coverage. Edit: also, on paper, him attending a sponsor event and then violating a rule at the competition because he "didn't have time to change" speaks volumes about his priorities.

mvdtnz 2y ago
What's "silly" is that such a dress code exists at all in 2024. What a bunch of uptight dorkwads.
- conception 2y ago
  Dress-codes can be about more than morality. In a game of intense concentration having distracting clothing could be a distraction. It’s not like every professional sport doesn’t have a dress code.
  - barbazoo 2y ago
    > It is important to promote a good and positive image of chess. Attire worn during all phases of the championships and events should be in good taste and appropriate to such a prestigious chess event. That’s the “objective” according to https://www.fide.com/images/stories/NEWS_2013/FIDE/Proposal_of_Ms._B._Marinello_in_respect_of_the_dress_code.pdf https://www.fide.com/images/stories/NEWS_2013/FIDE/Proposal_....
    - hosh 2y ago
      And we'll see if FIDE will be seen as a preserver of traditional values or out of touch with the new generation of chess players.
      - fwn 2y ago
        The primary impression that most of the contemporary world has of FIDE is probably one of corruption and power games that are completely detached from the game of chess. There are people who think that it can be reformed and there are people who don't think that FIDE can improve, but certainly no one argues that its past proves its commitment to professionalism. I'd say you'd be hard-pressed to find a worse performing global sport federation.

yuvalr1 2y ago

[flagged]

RansomStark 2y ago
> Facts can only be gathered from reliable sources. Source? How do you define reliable? Why is the authors identity important? Facts don't change because you know the authors name, or trust the source, or like the person telling lies. The idea that anonymous sources, or "untrusted" sources (for someones definition of trusted) cannot be the source of facts is gaining ground right now, and it needs to be pushed back on wherever it is seen. It's a lazy Ad hominem, and it's down right dangerous. I don't care if it's elected officials claiming Russian malinformation or a random chess thread, this is the hill I choose to die on.
- sambeau 2y ago
  The tradition of journalists using anonymous sources doesn’t mean they use anonymous sources, it means that they know who the source is, considers them reliable, but agrees not to name them. Usually they require multiple independent sources. Unknown sources on the internet are usually not reliable. Anonymous sources should not be trusted, even when there are more than one saying the same thing. Bots and deliberate misinformation abound. This is not a hill you should die on as it’s a hill that can greatly harm democratic society.
  - verisimi 2y ago
    Is democratic society the hill to die on? Sources?
  - braincat31415 2y ago
    That's one possibility. The other possibility is that the journalist mentions anonymous sources because he/she does not have any and is simply making stuff up.
    - _w1tm 2y ago