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Air missile accident emerges as probable cause of Azerbaijan E190tragedy
- NotYourLawyer 2y ago[flagged]
- paganel 2y agoThe "orcs" being who?
- 05 2y ago> Orc (Cyrillic: орк, romanised: ork), plural orcs (Russian and Ukrainian: орки), is a pejorative commonly used by many Ukrainians to refer to a Russian soldier participating in the Russian-Ukrainian War and Russian citizens who support the aggression of Russia against Ukraine. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orc_(slang) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orc_(slang)
- tetromino_ 2y agoLet's call a spade a spade. "Orc" is a dehumanizing term that the Ukrainian military propaganda invented and popularized to make it psychologically easier for their soldiers to shoot at Russians. Because they are not dropping a grenade from a drone on a human, they are just dropping a grenade on an orc, on a monster from a video game. For Americans in the audience, "Orc" belongs to the same category as "Jap", "Gook", "Sandn**r", and all similar dehumanizing terms that American soldiers have used to make it psychologically easier to shoot and bomb their enemies.
- NotYourLawyer 2y ago[flagged]
- AnimalMuppet 2y agoNo. No, it's not. Dehumanizing others costs you part of your humanity. It puts you on the path toward becoming a monster. Yeah, it's only one step on that path, but the better answer is, don't start down that path. Some people behave like monsters. You may have to kill them. But they're still people, and you still have to not dehumanize them, lest you dehumanize yourself.
- Dalewyn 2y agoFor those who need actual moments from history to understand this, here's some reading material: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_mutilation_of_Japanese_war_dead https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_mutilation_of_Japanes... In particular: >We learned about savagery from the Japanese ... But those sixteen-to-nineteen-year old kids we had on the Canal were fast learners ... At daybreak, a couple of our kids, bearded, dirty, skinny from hunger, slightly wounded by bayonets, clothes worn and torn, wack off three Jap heads and jam them on poles facing the "Jap side" of the river ... The colonel sees Jap heads on the poles and says, "Jesus men, what are you doing? You're acting like animals." A dirty, stinking young kid says, "That's right Colonel, we are animals. We live like animals, we eat and are treated like animals—what the fuck do you expect?"
- yakshaving_jgt 2y agoI’ve seen videos of russian soldiers invading Ukraine, killing soldiers and civilians, taking prisoners, and sometimes beheading or castrating prisoners while they’re still alive. Where is the human part of taking a knife to a man’s genitalia after you decide to invade his country? If russians don’t want to die, they can just go home.
- Dalewyn 2y agoIf you peer down into the abyss, the abyss will look back up at you.
- 2y ago
- likeabatterycar 2y agoOrcas. Nothing hath fury like an ill-tempered whale.
- buildsjets 2y agoI’m pretty sure it’s is a shortened form of Horcasitas, from Juan Vicente de Güemes Padilla Horcasitas y Aguayo, 2nd Count of Revillagigedo, the Viceroy of New Spain who sent an exploration expedition under Francisco de Eliza to the Pacific Northwest in 1791. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juan_Vicente_de_G%C3%BCemes,_2nd_Count_of_Revillagigedo https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juan_Vicente_de_G%C3%BCemes,_2...
- NotYourLawyer 2y agoRussian soldiers.
- ahmedfromtunis 2y agoIn a weird coincidence, this morning I watched an old video about the Iranian airliner downed by a US missile in the Persian gulf. These accidents are just horrible.
- Qem 2y agohttps://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_Air_Flight_655 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_Air_Flight_655
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- closewith 2y agoHard to call 655 an accident. The missiles were deliberately fired at that aircraft. It was either murder or manslaughter by negligence. The same is true for this incident.
- echelon 2y agoThere are videos of the crashed tail section that show shrapnel damage. https://www.reddit.com/r/aviation/comments/1hm0ijm/another_angle_at_unknown_holes_in_e190/ https://www.reddit.com/r/aviation/comments/1hm0ijm/another_a... There are videos filmed from within the cabin by the passengers showing shrapnel piercing clothing, limbs, seats, and more before the plane crashes. https://x.com/bayraktar_1love/status/1871952188383309872 https://x.com/bayraktar_1love/status/1871952188383309872 (Holes in life vests) https://www.reddit.com/r/world24x7hr/comments/1hm6prb/seats_and_legs_of_the_passengers_were_punctured/ https://www.reddit.com/r/world24x7hr/comments/1hm6prb/seats_... (Shrapnel damage) https://www.reddit.com/r/TerrifyingAsFuck/comments/1hm4mf0/final_moments_of_the_passenger_before_the/ https://www.reddit.com/r/TerrifyingAsFuck/comments/1hm4mf0/f... (Survivor before the plane crashes.) (There are better videos, but I can't seem to find them again.) There are reports that the plane was forced to divert course and fly over water after being hit. They were close to landing but were forced to reroute in the middle of their emergency. More videos: https://www.reddit.com/r/TerrifyingAsFuck/comments/1hlx7tc/crazy_footage_of_airplane_crash_near_aktau/ https://www.reddit.com/r/TerrifyingAsFuck/comments/1hlx7tc/c... (Crash. Other videos from other angles exist elsewhere online.) https://www.reddit.com/r/world24x7hr/comments/1hm2ynv/shocking_footage_emerges_from_inside_azal_embraer/ https://www.reddit.com/r/world24x7hr/comments/1hm2ynv/shocki... (Tail section after crash) https://www.reddit.com/r/ThatsInsane/comments/1hlxm7i/survivors_of_plane_crush_in_kazakhstan/ https://www.reddit.com/r/ThatsInsane/comments/1hlxm7i/surviv... (Survivors exiting the tail section) https://www.reddit.com/r/world24x7hr/comments/1hm7poq/miracle_this_man_survive_the_kazakhstan_plane/ https://www.reddit.com/r/world24x7hr/comments/1hm7poq/miracl... (Survivor who filmed prior to the crash.) I'll edit my comment with sources shortly.
- jiggawatts 2y agoA turbine blade or a few coming off can have the same effect as a bomb going off near the plane. The pieces would tear through the plane like shrapnel from a weapon. Military anti air missiles tend to use continuous rods to slice planes in half instead of fragmentation warheads that leave small holes. The aim is to sever control lines, not merely to puncture.
- 2y ago
- llamaimperative 2y agoRussia: "Why does the world view us as either malicious or incompetent?" Also Russia: Consistently fails to shoot down military aircraft and missiles, consistently shoots down passenger jets, consistently lies about both
- pinewurst 2y agoIt’s not ‘either or’, it’s ‘and’.
- djaouen 2y agoI'm not saying they are not both, but there is definitely another reason lol
- LtWorf 2y agohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Itavia_Flight_870 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Itavia_Flight_870
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- quink 2y agohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_Air_Lines_Flight_007 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_Air_Lines_Flight_007 would surely be a bit more on the nose. Especially since rt.com's only above-the-fold mention is "Russia-bound airliner crashes in ex-_Soviet_ state (VIDEO)". Nope, they don't need to use the word 'Kazakhstan', the 50% longer, much less descriptive but much more telling 'ex-Soviet state' is the one they're chosen.
- quink 2y agoThere's a second mention above the fold on rt.com now. "Putin extends condolences over plane crash in ex-Soviet state". They're literally a parody of themselves. Like, what's the implication here: Shame about the accident, none of this would have happened if we were all still together in a single nation led by us?
- lutusp 2y ago> " ... as the Azerbaijan Airlines aircraft was approaching to land as scheduled." Not as scheduled. The aircraft was diverted because of unacceptable weather at its primary destination -- https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cjwl1e6895qo https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cjwl1e6895qo : "The plane was en route to Grozny in Russia but it was diverted due to fog, the airline told the BBC." Just saying, not excusing a hostile takedown, if that's what happened. Diversion due to weather is a possibility anticipated by pilots, who normally carry extra fuel to accommodate the possibility of a diversion. Ironically, because of the advent of drone attacks, a small aircraft like the Embraer 190 is more likely to be mistaken for hostile, compared to a full-size airliner.
- closewith 2y agoThe 190 is a small airliner, but definitely not a small aircraft.
- lutusp 2y agoTo avoid confusion I made sure to compare it to a full-size airliner. Interestingly, the aircraft's comparatively small size may have determined its fate (https://www.cnn.com/2024/12/26/asia/kazakhstan-plane-crash-questions-intl/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2024/12/26/asia/kazakhstan-plane-crash-q...) : "Russia may have downed Azerbaijani jet after confusing it for Ukrainian drone, US official says."
- lutusp 2y agoFrom my earlier post: > Ironically, because of the advent of drone attacks, a small aircraft like the Embraer 190 is more likely to be mistaken for hostile, compared to a full-size airliner. From CNN today (https://www.cnn.com/2024/12/26/asia/kazakhstan-plane-crash-questions-intl/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2024/12/26/asia/kazakhstan-plane-crash-q...) : "Russia may have downed Azerbaijani jet after confusing it for Ukrainian drone, US official says."
- zmachinaz 2y agoJust zooming into the tail section photo one can find on main stream media shows very suspicious signs of possible shrapnel hit ...
- mrtksn 2y agoThe shrapnel damage is pretty much established as there are multiple videos from inside the plane during this flight prior to the crash and you can see shrapnel damage on the fuselage. The survivors are also confirming it, and report that there was a bang(which might be confused for bird strike). The question is, who shot the plane? This part is pure speculation at this point.
- wat10000 2y agoIs there anyone besides Russia who would have even been capable of shooting it down?
- londons_explore 2y agoWell considering the incident happened in Kazakhstan, one might imagine Kazakhstan has air defences too...
- mlyle 2y agoThe aircraft was sent away / prohibited from landing after reporting the explosion over Grozny, and had to divert to Kazakhstan to land without real pitch control. Some view the denying of emergency landing clearance as an effort to destroy/obscure evidence: https://x.com/DailyTurkic/status/1872008574878298418 https://x.com/DailyTurkic/status/1872008574878298418
- wat10000 2y agoThe pilots probably should have ignored that. There’s no such thing as “denying landing clearance” to an aircraft experiencing an emergency. There’s only “get out of the way of the incoming emergency.” But I can’t blame them for not wanting to take their chances when they were just shot by local air defense.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- madihaa 2y agoI've never seen such a clear plane crash, shocking
- ArturZhdanN 2y agorussia is a terrorist state
- belter 2y ago[flagged]
- bigfatkitten 2y agoNew DNI is basically the Kremlin spokeswoman.
- TheGreatAIPurge 2y ago[flagged]
- oceanplexian 2y agoThank god. I remember the outgoing administration bragging about the fact that they haven’t held talks with Putin since the start of the war. Maybe now diplomacy can happen and thousands of lives can be saved.
- llamaimperative 2y agoAlright Neville, let’s get you to bed
- trhazljk 2y ago[flagged]
- llamaimperative 2y agoAre you writing this message from 2014 or 2024? Hard to tell. I don’t believe I (or you) from a position of comfort have the answers. I believe that western democracies should trust their partners on the frontlines to decide when and how to find peace with an invader, as they know more than we do.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- brnt 2y agoIf I plot a line between Azerbaijan and Grozny, even if I go around the Caucasus over the Caspian, crashing in Kazakhstan seems way, way off.
- dilyevsky 2y agoIt diverted to Aktau after getting hit (by birds allegedly, but really - SAM). All other flights got diverted to Aktau too on that day.
- brnt 2y agoWhy that far? It's at least twice further from either beginning or destination than those are apart themselves.
- wat10000 2y agoSeems like the plane was barely controllable. That may have just been the direction they were able to maintain.
- dilyevsky 2y agoIf it got hit over Makhachkala it’s closer to Aktau - just over the Caspian. Maybe it’s easier to land there with busted controls too
- appreciatorBus 2y agoIf the pilots were aware that they had been hit by anti-aircraft defenses, and that they were in at least partial control of the aircraft, they might have concluded they were better off getting as far away as possible, just in case the AA operators try again.
- rasz 2y agoSo it crashed into the sea leaving no evidence or live witnesses.
- londons_explore 2y ago
- TechSquidTV 2y agoDon't worry. I'm sure we'll do nothing about it. Again.
- ralph84 2y agoWhy should “we” have anything to do with a flight between Azerbaijan and Russia that crashed in Kazakhstan?
- TechSquidTV 2y agoAnything to let them get away with it again.
- brookst 2y agoIsn’t there a saying about triumph of evil and good people doing nothing?
- kerland 2y agoWhat are the options? The war in Ukraine is a land war of attrition. They need more soldiers. Many Ukraninians evade military service and are instead refugees in the EU. Sending NATO troops to do their work seems strange, especially considering that we are talking about a relatively small piece of land in Eastern Ukraine. And no, Putin will not go for Lisboa if he still does not manage to occupy the whole of Donetsk. Do you blame NATO for not recapturing North Korea?
- brookst 2y agoWhy the obsession with military response? In my view, there is a lot of ground between “do nothing” and “put NATO boots on the ground”. Including a ton of asymmetric / deniable actions. False dichotomies like this are very questionable.
- martin-t 2y agoThey need equipment too, lots of it. The west for example sent only token amount of tanks. It's slightly better in some categories like towed artillery but not nearly enough. People who disagree simply don't understand the scale of this war. Night vision would be huge. If you've ever seen videos of soldiers with night vision engaging those without, it's slaughter. And that's exactly what we need, kill ratios of tens to one to make Russia really pay for their aggression. If they wanna send flesh against steel, make them bleed out. And when they start conscripting in big cities, maybe those "poor" "innocent" Russians will finally do something about their government.
- cynicalsecurity 2y ago> There is a possibility that the Azerbaijani passenger plane flying from Baku to Grozny was shot down by Russian air defense. > At least, the holes in the tail section look like traces of the striking elements of an anti-aircraft missile. > Surviving passenger of the plane Subhonkul Rakhimov said that the pilots tried to land the plane in Grozny three times: "The third time, something exploded. There was an explosion - I seemed to me that it was not inside the plane."
- neom 2y agoI'm not sure if i'm reading this correctly or not, but the telegraph seems to report that the oxygen tank exploded? https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/12/25/azerbaijan-airlines-crash-speculation-plane-accident/ https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/12/25/azerbaijan...
- inamberclad 2y agoI can't read through the paywall, but the numerous pictures of the skin with the metal folded in are a pretty dead giveaway that there was an explosion nearby that crippled the aircraft
- neom 2y agoHere is another one, but, looks like RT is ultimately the source for both the articles so... hmmmm...right... https://www.news18.com/world/oxygen-tank-inside-azerbaijan-airlines-flight-exploded-moments-before-crash-watch-9168012.html https://www.news18.com/world/oxygen-tank-inside-azerbaijan-a... (news18 is CNN in India https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CNN-News18 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CNN-News18)
- buildsjets 2y agoWhy not consider deleting the disinformation you chose to share?
- rodary 2y agoThis is odd. I'm from the area, near Grozny. If Grozny were under fog, there are at least 10 airports nearby (Makhachkala, Vladikavkaz, Nalchik, Minvody, Rostov, Krasnodar etc) in the North Caucasus. Why would you fly east, across the Caspian Sea, toward Kazakhstan?
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- appreciatorBus 2y agoObviously just speculation but if one was just fired upon, yet still in one piece and at least somewhat in control, a pilot might decide braving a longer diversion over a body of water to get away from the area, might be the safest course of action.
- dralley 2y agoAlso if you have control issues and a forced depressurization it might be best to avoid obstructions (like the Caucasus mountains) and significant course adjustments. But from what I'm seeing the actual answer is that they were denied landing clearance, which is a bit suspicious.
- quink 2y agoIf I was a pilot flying into an at-war country I’d want my alternate to point in a different direction, the exact opposite course of the war zone ideally. Which this pretty much is. And, to further that point, multiple airports you listed here are currently closed because of that war.
- TheGreatAIPurge 2y ago[flagged]
- IAmGraydon 2y agoAnyone else notice an influx of these new accounts in the last couple of years that start rapidly spamming inflammatory replies that seem to be trying to incite arguments (look at this ^ account's comments in the last hour)? HN is a bastion of mostly western, intelligent discourse. I'm really starting to wonder - is it under attack?
- imglorp 2y agoBlancolirio goes into some depth on the hydraulic systems. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1J04wUKZUCI&pp=ygULYmxhbmNvbGlyaW8%3D https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1J04wUKZUCI&pp=ygULYmxhbmNvb...
- lopkeny12ko 2y ago[flagged]
- morkalork 2y agoIs that you Alex Jones?
- Kerzo 2y ago[flagged]