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Classified fighter jet specs leaked on War Thunder forums
- siltcakes 2y agoMilitary propaganda media (like Top Gun and Call of Duty) seems to be a double edged sword for the state, since the people it works the best on are also most susceptible to compromising secrets due to their deep seated insecurities.
- tejohnso 2y ago> the people it works the best on are also most susceptible to compromising secrets due to their deep seated insecurities Can you elaborate on that? Who are the people it works best on? How are deep seated insecurities related to propensity to revealing secrets? Is this just an online thing or is this type of person more likely to reveal secrets in an intelligence operation scenario? How do you know all of this?
- siltcakes 2y agoIt works best on young men who are socially, romantically and sometimes financially struggling. It gives them a sense of power and belonging to the state, something greater than themselves. The same mechanisms that make this propaganda successful can be used (willingly or organically) to cause the effected individual to take other actions. Here someone wanted to brag so they leaked secrets online. One would argue people like Timothy McVeigh were similar, with much different results. Further reading: - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Bernays https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Bernays - https://archive.org/details/aberrationinhear0000pain/page/708/mode/2up https://archive.org/details/aberrationinhear0000pain/page/70...
- GiorgioG 2y agoIf a forum has it, foreign agents already had it.
- LeifCarrotson 2y agoThe forum has it not because it's common knowledge but because people with top secret clearance happen to frequent the forum and like to talk about/boast about the tech they work with. An enemy state's ability to get an agent deep inside the military, or to entice someone already inside to turn traitor, or to hack through the layers of security to extract data over the network is largely disconnected from an insider's desire to chat about what they did at work.
- dirtysanchez 2y ago[dead]
- roenxi 2y agoI'd expect a enemy state's ability to get information out of a system would in fact be correlated with insider's desires to chat about what they did at work. Find some bloke who is a bit lonely, a bit talkative and has good security access, send out a hot woman with an unexpected interest in military specifications. I'm no spymaster but that seems like something a spy agency could manage. Might be able to grab a stickynote with a few key passwords on it to sweeten the operation.
- bsder 2y agoMaria Butina demonstrates that the woman doesn't need to even be particularly hot ...
- d883kd8 2y agoEven better a woman who kinda looks like the target’s ex - a duper hot woman stands out and might activate the bloke’s memory of training. Spies whole thing is to blend in, appear unremarkable.
- 2y ago
- labster 2y agoThe siren call of proving someone wrong on the internet strikes again.
- uncomplexity_ 2y agowhat law is it again? where if you want the right answers to come out, spam people with wrong answers? lol
- touisteur 2y agoCunningham's Law states "the best way to get the right answer on the internet is not to ask a question; it's to post the wrong answer." From https://meta.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/Cunningham%27s_Law https://meta.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/Cunningham%27s_Law
- kitd 2y agoI was really hoping you'd quote the wrong law. That would have been a sigma move.
- brookst 2y agoThing is, this law way predates the internet. It’s a human nature thing. As a long time product manager, I’ve always found that the best way to get engineering engagement on a P1-to-me, P2-to-engineering issue is to propose my own solution. Someone is bound to solve the issue just to prove my solution wasn’t the right one.
- Manuel_D 2y agoAt this point, they ought to ask if you play War Thunder on the SF-86.
- sandworm101 2y agoNever ask a question of a friend when you know the answer will be a lie.
- bmcahren 2y agoIf I'm not mistaken it was a factor in recruiting in general as evidenced by another leak.
- paul-tharun 2y agoThis originated from this reddit thread and has been proved as fake. https://www.reddit.com/r/Warthunder/comments/10j1hqr/congrats_guys_we_did_it/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Warthunder/comments/10j1hqr/congrat... source: the pinned comment on that thread
- ethbr1 2y agoThese seem like first person source, early-Wikipedia arguments. (Before citation guidelines came into full effect) I.e. How do you correct something that you know to be wrong, when you can't point to something public? Except, in the case of classified military technical specs -- just let it be wrong.
- pyrale 2y ago> I.e. How do you correct something that you know to be wrong, when you can't point to something public? Shake my head, and accept that it's enough hn/reddit for today.
- AdrianB1 2y agoYou don't have to correct everything all the time, especially if it is a sensitive matter. Correcting Covid information 2-3 years ago was a one way ticket to being cancelled everywhere, for example. One needs to accept that being right is not something to prove every single time. Remember Galileo.
- brcmthrowaway 2y agoIsnt this tech 20 years old at this point?
- killingtime74 2y agoI think according to Wikipedia only 10 years old. That's for the latest variant, not sure what was posted
- dieortin 2y agoThat is not old by military standards
- pixelesque 2y agoThe Captor-E AESA variant is not yet in service with the main countries developing it, despite the project starting in 1993. In fact, only export customers (Kuwait and Qatar) have the Captor-E ECRS Mk0 on their Typhoons so far, Germany and the UK (in particular) are holding out for future improvements, and are scheduled to get later versions, so they still have the mech-scanned PESA version as far as I've heard.
- fnord77 2y agoI know this is serious, but this trope is kinda hilarious to me. Someone needs to prove themselves right so badly that they risk prison time by posting classified docs.
- nradov 2y agoDepending on where they're located and how they came into position of the classified file it isn't necessarily a criminal offense.
- zdragnar 2y agoDepends entirely on what kind of connections you have. The government will happily waive rules to let you off the hook, or raid your dwelling early in the morning with guns drawn, then stage evidence if need be.
- chgs 2y agoUS government only raids peoples homes (other than those in the US) for really serious crimes like copyright infringement
- ls612 2y agoIt has been _0_ days since classified information was leaked on the War Thunder forums.
- rinzero 2y agoMy pet conspiracy theory about these leaks is that the military uses WarThunder as a training sim, and every now and then someone notices the physics/render is off so they "leak" the specs knowing some gaming nerd is going to fix it for them.
- Trasmatta 2y agoThe developers never make changes based on these leaks.
- mrguyorama 2y agoThe devs cannot make the game match the reality, because that would be very very unfair for the people who play non-NATO countries. The game needs a semblance of balance. At least at one point, Russian tanks in the game had just free magic armor to protect the ammo carousel from cooking off from literally any hit. "Spall" and damage fragments would just magically not trigger the ammo cookoff, specifically on some Russian tanks.
- hypeatei 2y agoWhy would they use an arcade like War Thunder when DCS exists?
- Diti 2y agoYeah, both Arma 3 and DCS World have commercial versions of their simulators for the armies to train on.
- stackghost 2y agoI can't speak for Arma but DCS isn't even close to accurate enough to count as a qualified simulator. It's a nice toy, but still a toy.
- izacus 2y agoIt doesn't really change the fact that quite a few militaries license "MCS", the military version of the simulator for training purposes (and it probably funds DCS development as a side project). You could even see it now in photos with Ukranian pilots, most likely for F-16 cockpit familiarization. Remember that pilots spend quite a bit of time practicing on printed out posters of cockpits and DCS is quite better than that ;)
- ycombinatrix 2y agoThis is going to keep happening, isn't it?
- demarq 2y agoyes, yes it is.
- scrlk 2y agoList of Classified Document Leaks for War Thunder: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2924096000 https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=29240... Apparently the latest incident was a repost of a document that was first leaked on the forum back in 2023 (see Eurofighter Typhoon).
- dralley 2y agoMost of the "leaks" are just documents that had been leaked elsewhere and circulated around the internet for years previously, that got reposted and reported without context.
- coldblues 2y agoPretty much. The reason why these "leaks" get mentioned so much is because the idea of leaking classified documents on a video game forum is mildly amusing. The game is popular among people enrolled in the military, so it's not implausible that someone would leak documents for laughs and clout.
- 6451937099 2y ago[dead]
- bagels 2y agoAgain? Intelligence people are sleeping on the job if they're not scraping those forums all day every day.
- whamlastxmas 2y agoI really doubt there’s anything meaningful coming out of these documents. It’s not going to change any literally a single country spends their military budget
- wutwutwat 2y agoI don’t think anyone is concerned about budgets. Having intimate details into the systems of these craft and understanding how they operate in great detail makes it much easier to 1. Copy it, 2. Defend against it, 3. Find critical vulnerabilities in its design, 4. Build offensive systems that take advantage of any shortcomings, 5. Fast tracks their own jet fighter programs (which to your point does affect budgets because someone else had paid for the R&D) The same is true for any IP/competitive advantage. It’s funny how in our industry security through obsecurity is a thing we avoid, but other industries are literally built on the foundation of hiding information in order to stay ahead
- stavros 2y agoWe avoid it because there are better ways, not because security through obscurity isn't security. Sometimes, obscurity is all you have.
- gpm 2y agoAlso because so much of software is uniquely poorly suited to obscurity. Attackers will often be able to probe the "obscure" system at their leisure trying to reverse it, or in non-SAAS cases get their hands on the actual (compiled) algorithm itself. And once you figure it out every single copy works exactly the same. It's not like trying to measure the penetrating capabilities of a tank round, where you need physical access to a batch of large, expensive, explosive, tightly controlled objects to figure it out.
- swozey 2y agoMy big takeaway from this is that War Thunder is only 200 employees. I know this is a massive income generating game so I'm googling around.. I found this post from Dec 2023 that has a mention of 121 million euros net revenue. > https://steamcommunity.com/app/236390/discussions/0/4034726433734745440/?l=latam&ctp=2 https://steamcommunity.com/app/236390/discussions/0/40347264... it's specifically referencing ONLY Hungarian income data for the company directly- https://www.ceginformacio.hu/cr9311454780_EN https://www.ceginformacio.hu/cr9311454780_EN If you look at that today in 2024- https://www.ceginformacio.hu/cr9311454780_EN https://www.ceginformacio.hu/cr9311454780_EN It's 137,097,280 euros a year today. $131 million revenue with 200 employees.. I've worked at 1200-2500 employee companies that were 10ths of that, if that. Gajin has companies all over the world, I'm assuming this is only their hungarian revenue. I don't know if its only their hungarian employees, I assume so.. edit: I just noticed the ceginfomacio.hu link shows 56 people, 1 owner reported 1/1/2023. So, 56 hungarian employees?
- mrguyorama 2y agoThe reason every game studio is trying to force their way into a "Live service" game that hits big is because they are basically unmatched when it comes to profit per unit effort. Whales will pay ANYTHING to buy EVERYTHING you offer, and everything you offer took literally an afternoon for your cheapest artist to throw together. Honestly Gaijin isn't even the worst offender in this regard. Sure the game is so goddamned grindy that you basically HAVE to spend money if you ever want to play with the fun toys at the top of the tech trees, but a new plane model based on a real machine definitely takes more implementation effort than a hat.
- loxias 2y agoHonestly, this makes me curious to try playing the game. Good advertisement. :)
- refulgentis 2y agoAI written article that's a poorly reused template of earlier story, applied to not-actually-classified information. And we're 44 comments in and most someone has noticed is observing it sounds like "early Wikipedia" We are so fucked
- DuckConference 2y agoIs this an actual leak or another case of an export-controlled document that's already circulating around the internet getting posted on their forums? Most of the war thunder "classified leaks" have just been that.
- Animats 2y agoThere's a huge amount of info available about the CAPTOR radar, its E-CAPTOR successor, and the common European radar successor. There are Wikipedia articles, promotional videos, marketing materials, and so forth. This video[1] gives enough info that a game dev could make up a basic simulator for a game. But that's just the basic mode. The thing has an large number of modes. Apparently it mostly manages them by itself, which is the clever part. It can act as a search radar, a targeting radar, a jammer, an RF weapon, a ground target mode, and even a bistatic mode, where one plane sends and another receives, so the attacker can get in close while not emitting. Now that's a really hard user interface problem. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FpUhIwGjI7U https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FpUhIwGjI7U
- quietbritishjim 2y ago> Now that's a really hard user interface problem I'm not sure whether or not you meant this, but it would be a hard (/interesting) user interface problem in the planes themselves, never mind the game. Especially the bistatic mode.
- sandworm101 2y ago>> and even a bistatic mode, where one plane sends and another receives, so the attacker can get in close while not emitting. That is one concept. The tactics of bistatic radar are far more complex, with many possible modes for many different situations and advantages.
- AdrianB1 2y agoAnd in order to prove a point, one of you will post the link to the full schematics and manuals. This is exactly what the article describes.
- bigbacaloa 2y ago[dead]
- codedokode 2y agoGlad to read that a russian game is well known around the world and regularly gets in the news.
- sandworm101 2y ago20s on the difference between the captor-m and captor-e, with lasers. Remember to unmute. https://youtu.be/5l8LdM9_3PU https://youtu.be/5l8LdM9_3PU