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I've retrieved stolen bikes, one because of an airtag. Showed up with a couple friends standing by but not trying to be intimidating. It's mostly about staying

I've retrieved stolen bikes, one because of an airtag. Showed up with a couple friends standing by but not trying to be intimidating. It's mostly about staying calm and telling the person this is mine, I'm taking it. They always say "no it's my friend's, you're gonna piss him off" or "I just bought this" or something. Maybe you offer some fraction of a "reward" to smooth it along and cut your losses. Don't try to start a fight and it generally goes OK. Also, try not to accuse them of stealing, they'll just get defensive. "It's someone else who is screwing us both, but this is mine sorry."

nostromo 2y ago
If it’s left anywhere in the open at anytime, you can repossess it legally as well. This happens with auto repossessions all the time. You don’t owe anyone an explanation as it’s yours - just take it if you can do so safely.
- mikeortman 2y ago
  Just be careful! In SOME jurisdictions, you can get in trouble for 'stealing' if you take back something that was stolen. Possession vs Ownership are 2 different things. For instance, the thief may have stolen something, sold it to someone who bought it in good-faith, and you take it back from that person, it's technically theft! File a police report, go through the right channels. If you know its yours, call the police department non-emergency and explain the situation
  - neilv 2y ago
    This is the most useful advice: call the police non-emergency number, explain concisely, and ask them what to do. A bunch of the other suggestions, here on HN Streetwise ProTips, can get self and/or friends beaten, stabbed, and/or arrested.
    - TylerE 2y ago
      No, THE most useful advice is not to take legal advice from cops.
      - neilv 2y ago
        How do you think the police will give bad advice, if you call them up and ask what to do?
        Kinrany 2y ago
        Depends on how well they do their job, it's not hard to imagine them saying "file a report" and then ignoring it.
        extra88 2y ago
        There are countless examples of police not knowing the law. If you talk to them in person, it should be to get an idea of what they'll do, which may or may not have something to do with what's legal. If you want legal advice, ask a lawyer with experience in the relevant area.
        neilv 2y ago
        You don't want legal advice. You know where your stolen bike is, so you call the police. I think that's the usual process. Probably they will verify that the bike is yours, and retrieve it, or they will say that they don't have the resources. Are people imagining that the police will say that you can go take the bike, but then turn around and arrest you for theft? Of course, if the police tell you "finders keepers; it's in the Constitution", then you can seek legal advice.
        sneak 2y ago
        No. The police will offer you the option to come to the police station and fill out a report so you can get a police report number for your insurance claim. Nothing else will happen. Police don’t usually investigate petty crimes.
  - nostromo 2y ago
    I’d be curious what jurisdiction that is true. In my jurisdiction in the US it doesn’t matter if someone purchased the stolen goods or not, the goods still belong to the owner. This is sometimes called the "nemo dat" rule: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nemo_dat_quod_non_habet https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nemo_dat_quod_non_habet The person buying the stolen goods would need to file a claim against the thief to recover their money, but the goods still belong to the original owner. And this is how it should be, since it’s added reason not to buy goods you suspect are stolen. And yes, you should always try and work with the police first and foremost.
    - jorvi 2y ago
      That is probably mostly a common law thing, and as the article notes > however, in many cases, more than one innocent party is involved, making judgment difficult for courts and leading to numerous exceptions to the general rule that aim to give a degree of protection to bona fide purchasers and original owners > The person buying the stolen goods would need to file a claim against the thief to recover their money Generally as long as the purchase is made in good faith, you are wrong. It is the original owner that needs to file a claim against the thief. Obviously, what constitutes a sale in "good faith" is a rather imprecise science, although one steady element is the sales price: it needs to have been appropriate for the item. So for example a mint bicycle or antique coin should sell near sticker price.
      - nsomaru 2y ago
        The key element for a bona fide sale at common law is the buyer’s absence of knowledge of the defective title of the seller. Not sure how US courts have interpreted this requirement but that’s the onus and I believe it rests on the third party buyer (to show absence of knowledge through evidence). In that case the claim is against the thief only.
      - graemep 2y ago
        > in many cases, more than one innocent party is involved, making judgment difficult for courts and leading to numerous exceptions to the general rule that aim to give a degree of protection to bona fide purchasers and original owners The next sentence is: > The possession of the good of title will be with the original owner. So you seem to be wrong there. The innocent buyer needs to file a claim against the thief, the original owner retails their title. It is explained in more detail later on.
  - darreninthenet 2y ago
    This wouldn't be true in the UK, you can just take it back and use reasonable (which would be very light in the circumstances) force to do so.
  - srockets 2y ago
    The police won’t help you. It’s not their job.
    - wahnfrieden 2y ago
      They will at best waste your time, and at worst they will cause you and your family harm for involving them. In Toronto even a stolen car is not enough to get their attention if you are not a high-profile business owner.
      - bagels 2y ago
        At best they will help you with stolen property, but that is rare.
        wahnfrieden 2y ago
        Mythically rare. They're more likely to steal from you.
    - happyopossum 2y ago
      Move, or elect better local politicians. Your city is broken.
      - sneak 2y ago
        Different local politicians won’t change the legal fact that the police have no obligation whatsoever to investigate or prevent crime. It’s simply not in the job description.
        9dev 2y ago
        Err… what is their job, then, if not investigating and preventing crime? That pet theory with the slave patrols of yours, by the way, isn’t it; that’s a hoax. The modern police in the USA and other countries stems from the British police, which did exactly what they are supposed to do, since ages.
  - sneak 2y ago
    [flagged]
    - jki275 2y ago
      Oh come on, that's not even hyperbole, it's straight out flame bait, and it's absolutely false.
      - itsanaccount 2y ago
        its not bait. for my demographics the number 1 way I die by stranger is cops. not random gangbanger, not bar fight, not mistaken identity. never ever call the police, avoid them whenever possible. the probability of death by stranger is low compared to most other causes but cops managed to beat out the competition and it just ain't worth it.
        sandblast 2y ago
        Do you have any sources to back up this claim? Genuinely curious.
        bdowling 2y ago
        I'm curious too. I found a lot of skepticism of a similar claim. https://skeptics.stackexchange.com/questions/47754/are-one-third-of-americans-killed-by-strangers-killed-by-police https://skeptics.stackexchange.com/questions/47754/are-one-t...
        itsanaccount 2y ago
        [flagged]
        pb7 2y ago
        I'm sure this attitude has absolutely nothing to do with how poorly these interactions go. There is a certain irony in your generalizations...
  - chii 2y ago
    > it's technically theft! i hope that isn't true. A buyer of stolen goods needs to accept that a consequence of it is that they could lose possession of said good. This is why for expensive goods, you should ensure you're not buying stolen goods.
    - mosselman 2y ago
      Here in the Netherlands if you purchase something and cant reasonably know that it was stolen, then you become the legal owner. It is logical that it works that way. Proving something is owned by someone else can be quite hard for certain items.
  - harha 2y ago
    Some jurisdictions are great at protecting all the wrong people
  - Nakagawa835 2y ago
    Helpful knowledge, thanks!
  - wouldbecouldbe 2y ago
    the police often won't do anything
  - MagicMoonlight 2y ago
    Please evidence this claim. I know it’s false in the UK and I’d imagine it is false in any country where the law is based on UK law. Failing to retrieve it at the time is going to mean losing it forever. If you find a crackhead with your phone and wait for someone else to retrieve it, that phone is long gone.
- victorbjorklund 2y ago
  Not everywhere. In Sweden that would be a crime (a little bit depending on what you mean left in the open).
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - kleton 2y ago
    What kind of anarcho-tyranny is that?
    - selfmodruntime 2y ago
      European countries sometimes have a rather repulsive legal system that provides far too much protection to perpetrators.
      - unreal37 2y ago
        There is no concept in American Law of "acquiring stolen stuff legally". If you buy something that was stolen, the original owner has the right to get it back without compensation to you.
        rullopat 2y ago
        I don't know somewhere else but, in Italy, buying / getting stolen stuff from somebody else is a specific kind of crime as well. You need to give a solid explanation why you have a stolen good.
        balls187 2y ago
        Similar, in the US "knowingly" receiving stolen property is a crime.
      - deleted 2y ago
        [deleted]
      - 2y ago
- paulddraper 2y ago
  So when both people think they have legally purchased it, they go back and forth stealing it?
throw90230932 2y ago
[flagged]
- Etheryte 2y ago
  Yeah no, that's not how any of this works. Just because someone else is holding your bike in their hands does not make it theirs. You're within your rights to take back what's yours.
  - throw90230932 2y ago
    ....
    - Etheryte 2y ago
      No, it does not get complicated fast, in fact it's very simple. Selling stolen goods does not take ownership away from the original owner. There's a good write up about this on the Law Stack Exchange site [0]. [0] https://law.stackexchange.com/questions/15869/if-someone-steals-something-of-mine-is-it-legal-to-steal-it-back https://law.stackexchange.com/questions/15869/if-someone-ste...
      - deleted 2y ago
        [deleted]
      - itsanaccount 2y ago
        Ah yes, law. Something arguable and correct and somehow different from the people who happen to be enforcing it. Pretty soon this is going to be how we separate the generations, people who still believe in imaginary things from the before times.
  - jen729w 2y ago
    It works the other way, too. Years ago a UK bank incorrectly deposited money in my account. My GF’s dad was a lawyer, so I asked him if I could spend it. “It’s like if someone parks their car in your driveway”, he told me. “While that’s inconvenient, it doesn’t make it your car.”
altacc 2y ago
This is my experience as well. Most people don't want confrontation. I found my stolen bike when somebody was out riding it. I told them it was stolen from me, they said "OK" and handed it over. It was either them who stole it or they bought it suspiciously cheap and knew it was stolen.

nostromo 2y ago

If it’s left anywhere in the open at anytime, you can repossess it legally as well. This happens with auto repossessions all the time. You don’t owe anyone an explanation as it’s yours - just take it if you can do so safely.

mikeortman 2y ago
Just be careful! In SOME jurisdictions, you can get in trouble for 'stealing' if you take back something that was stolen. Possession vs Ownership are 2 different things. For instance, the thief may have stolen something, sold it to someone who bought it in good-faith, and you take it back from that person, it's technically theft! File a police report, go through the right channels. If you know its yours, call the police department non-emergency and explain the situation
- neilv 2y ago
  This is the most useful advice: call the police non-emergency number, explain concisely, and ask them what to do. A bunch of the other suggestions, here on HN Streetwise ProTips, can get self and/or friends beaten, stabbed, and/or arrested.
  - TylerE 2y ago
    No, THE most useful advice is not to take legal advice from cops.
    - neilv 2y ago
      How do you think the police will give bad advice, if you call them up and ask what to do?
      - Kinrany 2y ago
        Depends on how well they do their job, it's not hard to imagine them saying "file a report" and then ignoring it.
      - extra88 2y ago
        There are countless examples of police not knowing the law. If you talk to them in person, it should be to get an idea of what they'll do, which may or may not have something to do with what's legal. If you want legal advice, ask a lawyer with experience in the relevant area.
        neilv 2y ago
        You don't want legal advice. You know where your stolen bike is, so you call the police. I think that's the usual process. Probably they will verify that the bike is yours, and retrieve it, or they will say that they don't have the resources. Are people imagining that the police will say that you can go take the bike, but then turn around and arrest you for theft? Of course, if the police tell you "finders keepers; it's in the Constitution", then you can seek legal advice.
        sneak 2y ago
        No. The police will offer you the option to come to the police station and fill out a report so you can get a police report number for your insurance claim. Nothing else will happen. Police don’t usually investigate petty crimes.
- nostromo 2y ago
  I’d be curious what jurisdiction that is true. In my jurisdiction in the US it doesn’t matter if someone purchased the stolen goods or not, the goods still belong to the owner. This is sometimes called the "nemo dat" rule: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nemo_dat_quod_non_habet https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nemo_dat_quod_non_habet The person buying the stolen goods would need to file a claim against the thief to recover their money, but the goods still belong to the original owner. And this is how it should be, since it’s added reason not to buy goods you suspect are stolen. And yes, you should always try and work with the police first and foremost.
  - jorvi 2y ago
    That is probably mostly a common law thing, and as the article notes > however, in many cases, more than one innocent party is involved, making judgment difficult for courts and leading to numerous exceptions to the general rule that aim to give a degree of protection to bona fide purchasers and original owners > The person buying the stolen goods would need to file a claim against the thief to recover their money Generally as long as the purchase is made in good faith, you are wrong. It is the original owner that needs to file a claim against the thief. Obviously, what constitutes a sale in "good faith" is a rather imprecise science, although one steady element is the sales price: it needs to have been appropriate for the item. So for example a mint bicycle or antique coin should sell near sticker price.
    - nsomaru 2y ago
      The key element for a bona fide sale at common law is the buyer’s absence of knowledge of the defective title of the seller. Not sure how US courts have interpreted this requirement but that’s the onus and I believe it rests on the third party buyer (to show absence of knowledge through evidence). In that case the claim is against the thief only.
    - graemep 2y ago
      > in many cases, more than one innocent party is involved, making judgment difficult for courts and leading to numerous exceptions to the general rule that aim to give a degree of protection to bona fide purchasers and original owners The next sentence is: > The possession of the good of title will be with the original owner. So you seem to be wrong there. The innocent buyer needs to file a claim against the thief, the original owner retails their title. It is explained in more detail later on.
- darreninthenet 2y ago
  This wouldn't be true in the UK, you can just take it back and use reasonable (which would be very light in the circumstances) force to do so.
- srockets 2y ago
  The police won’t help you. It’s not their job.
  - wahnfrieden 2y ago
    They will at best waste your time, and at worst they will cause you and your family harm for involving them. In Toronto even a stolen car is not enough to get their attention if you are not a high-profile business owner.
    - bagels 2y ago
      At best they will help you with stolen property, but that is rare.
      - wahnfrieden 2y ago
        Mythically rare. They're more likely to steal from you.
  - happyopossum 2y ago
    Move, or elect better local politicians. Your city is broken.
    - sneak 2y ago
      Different local politicians won’t change the legal fact that the police have no obligation whatsoever to investigate or prevent crime. It’s simply not in the job description.
      - 9dev 2y ago
        Err… what is their job, then, if not investigating and preventing crime? That pet theory with the slave patrols of yours, by the way, isn’t it; that’s a hoax. The modern police in the USA and other countries stems from the British police, which did exactly what they are supposed to do, since ages.
- sneak 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - jki275 2y ago
    Oh come on, that's not even hyperbole, it's straight out flame bait, and it's absolutely false.
    - itsanaccount 2y ago
      its not bait. for my demographics the number 1 way I die by stranger is cops. not random gangbanger, not bar fight, not mistaken identity. never ever call the police, avoid them whenever possible. the probability of death by stranger is low compared to most other causes but cops managed to beat out the competition and it just ain't worth it.
      - sandblast 2y ago
        Do you have any sources to back up this claim? Genuinely curious.
        bdowling 2y ago
        I'm curious too. I found a lot of skepticism of a similar claim. https://skeptics.stackexchange.com/questions/47754/are-one-third-of-americans-killed-by-strangers-killed-by-police https://skeptics.stackexchange.com/questions/47754/are-one-t...
        itsanaccount 2y ago
        [flagged]
        pb7 2y ago
        I'm sure this attitude has absolutely nothing to do with how poorly these interactions go. There is a certain irony in your generalizations...
- chii 2y ago
  > it's technically theft! i hope that isn't true. A buyer of stolen goods needs to accept that a consequence of it is that they could lose possession of said good. This is why for expensive goods, you should ensure you're not buying stolen goods.
  - mosselman 2y ago
    Here in the Netherlands if you purchase something and cant reasonably know that it was stolen, then you become the legal owner. It is logical that it works that way. Proving something is owned by someone else can be quite hard for certain items.
- harha 2y ago
  Some jurisdictions are great at protecting all the wrong people
- Nakagawa835 2y ago
  Helpful knowledge, thanks!
- wouldbecouldbe 2y ago
  the police often won't do anything
- MagicMoonlight 2y ago
  Please evidence this claim. I know it’s false in the UK and I’d imagine it is false in any country where the law is based on UK law. Failing to retrieve it at the time is going to mean losing it forever. If you find a crackhead with your phone and wait for someone else to retrieve it, that phone is long gone.
victorbjorklund 2y ago
Not everywhere. In Sweden that would be a crime (a little bit depending on what you mean left in the open).
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- kleton 2y ago
  What kind of anarcho-tyranny is that?
  - selfmodruntime 2y ago
    European countries sometimes have a rather repulsive legal system that provides far too much protection to perpetrators.
    - unreal37 2y ago
      There is no concept in American Law of "acquiring stolen stuff legally". If you buy something that was stolen, the original owner has the right to get it back without compensation to you.
      - rullopat 2y ago
        I don't know somewhere else but, in Italy, buying / getting stolen stuff from somebody else is a specific kind of crime as well. You need to give a solid explanation why you have a stolen good.
        balls187 2y ago
        Similar, in the US "knowingly" receiving stolen property is a crime.
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
    - 2y ago
paulddraper 2y ago
So when both people think they have legally purchased it, they go back and forth stealing it?

throw90230932 2y ago

[flagged]

Etheryte 2y ago
Yeah no, that's not how any of this works. Just because someone else is holding your bike in their hands does not make it theirs. You're within your rights to take back what's yours.
- throw90230932 2y ago
  ....
  - Etheryte 2y ago
    No, it does not get complicated fast, in fact it's very simple. Selling stolen goods does not take ownership away from the original owner. There's a good write up about this on the Law Stack Exchange site [0]. [0] https://law.stackexchange.com/questions/15869/if-someone-steals-something-of-mine-is-it-legal-to-steal-it-back https://law.stackexchange.com/questions/15869/if-someone-ste...
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
    - itsanaccount 2y ago
      Ah yes, law. Something arguable and correct and somehow different from the people who happen to be enforcing it. Pretty soon this is going to be how we separate the generations, people who still believe in imaginary things from the before times.
- jen729w 2y ago
  It works the other way, too. Years ago a UK bank incorrectly deposited money in my account. My GF’s dad was a lawyer, so I asked him if I could spend it. “It’s like if someone parks their car in your driveway”, he told me. “While that’s inconvenient, it doesn’t make it your car.”

altacc 2y ago

This is my experience as well. Most people don't want confrontation. I found my stolen bike when somebody was out riding it. I told them it was stolen from me, they said "OK" and handed it over. It was either them who stole it or they bought it suspiciously cheap and knew it was stolen.