10 ms·

Apple is back on EPEAT

157 points by kellysutton 14y ago

younata 14y ago
The retina macbook is rated EPEAT gold. http://www.apple.com/macbook-pro/specs/ http://www.apple.com/macbook-pro/specs/
- glhaynes 14y ago
  Interesting! Unless I'm misunderstanding a subtlety here, the common wisdom seemed to be that the retina MacBook's glue made it ineligible to get EPEAT certification and, since that style of design is obviously Apple's future direction, they pulled their EPEAT participation now.
  - younata 14y ago
    That's actually the first thing I checked once I saw the press release. It mentions that they're putting EPEAT Gold certification on their eligible products, and I'm curious if ineligible products means some of the accessories they sell, and that all their computers meet EPEAT gold.
    - mbreese 14y ago
      I assume eligible means computers and displays but not iPads, since EPEAT doesn't rate tablets.
  - cube13 14y ago
    It means one of two different things: Either Apple has changed the glue used in the retina MBP's to go in-line with EPEAT's certification, or the glue was not rated by EPEAT, which would cause them to not certify it in the first place, but it did satisfy the other requirements, so Apple was able to force the certification through.
  - mkaltenecker 14y ago
    I think many people misunderstand where the glue is in the Retina MacBook Pro. They say things like “The display is glued to the case.” which is wrong. The display assembly (the actual screen where the lights shine true) is glued together. I’m not sure but I think that part of the display is always pretty tightly integrated, probably even glued together. (I tried to find information on that and I would be very glad if someone could point me to resources about how laptop displays are usually built.) The difference with Apple’s design (as far as I understand it) is that the frontmost layer of that assembly is also the front glass of the screen. Other laptops with glass in front of the screen put an extra layer of glass in front of the display assembly. The Retina MacBook Pro doesn’t have that extra glass. (My understanding – but please correct me if I’m wrong, I’m really not sure and I would like to know more – is that old displays had a sort of plastic outer layer, now Apple uses a glass outer layer. But that’s not that a big deal, as far as I know, since on the inside all LCDs use glass substrate also – so it’s not as if Apple introduced glass into the display assembly, some was always there, they just added more. But maybe I’m wrong about that.) That display assembly is screwed – not glued – to the case. Behind it are the LEDs and light diffusers. Here is a teardown of the display: http://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/MacBook-Pro-15-Inch-Retina-Display-Teardown/9493/1#.T-B6X6DrlaR http://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/MacBook-Pro-15-Inch-Retina-Di... The battery is glued to the case - but it seems to that it is eminently removable with the application of some force. If you don’t care about breaking the laptop (since you want to recycle it) that should be no big deal. I mean, Apple replaces the battery for $200, no questions asked. I don’t think they replace the whole Retina MacBook Pro every time they do that, so they must remove the glued-in battery, and that inside a working laptop. If Apple can do it, so can you (especially with a laptop that’s beyond repair).
    - grecy 14y ago
      > Apple replaces the battery for $200, no questions asked. I don’t think they replace the whole Retina MacBook Pro every time they do that, so they must remove the glued-in battery, and that inside a working laptop. If Apple can do it, so can you (especially with a laptop that’s beyond repair). This is the best explanation I've seen. Somehow everyone has forgotten this.
      - 14y ago
- bcrescimanno 14y ago
  Read the fine print; it says, "Macbook Pro was rated EPEAT gold." Everywhere else, the Retina Macbook Pro is referred to as "Macbook Pro with Retina Display." They are separate products; and, I'm guessing the EPEAT gold rating does not apply to the Retina MBP (though, if someone can show otherwise, that'd be great).
  - glhaynes 14y ago
    Their environmental report for the MacBook Pro with Retina Display (PDF: http://images.apple.com/environment/reports/docs/macbookpro_retinadisplay_per_june2012.pdf http://images.apple.com/environment/reports/docs/macbookpro_...) specifically says it "Achieves a Gold rating from EPEAT".
    - deleted 14y ago
      [deleted]
    - keithpeter 14y ago
      So you can recycle glass glued to aluminium easily? That is interesting news
      - bdcravens 14y ago
        What do you mean by easily? Recycling is a very industrial operation; it's more than just the neat little recycling containers you see in the suburbs. If iFixit shows you how to do it, you can be guaranteed that professional recyclers can do it. Especially if it's a material of value: they meticulously disassemble dishwashers all the time for the copper contained within. tldr; recycling != recycling bin
    - bcrescimanno 14y ago
      Ah, fair enough. I didn't really go beyond the linked page for the MBP. The fine print seemed just fishy enough to warrant the notion that it didn't mean exactly what it implied. Thanks for setting me right.
deleted 14y ago
[deleted]
derwildemomo 14y ago
"I recognize that this was a mistake." strikes me as a very un-appleish communication style.
- alpine 14y ago
  I agree. Worryingly, it could be evidence of a move away from traditional Steve values, ie don't back down (straight away), don't apologise, don't explain. Alternatively, it could be Apple realise they made a huge mistake, were about to see immense damage to the brand and/or sales, so have taken the drastic, ajobsian action they think is required.
  - jack-r-abbit 14y ago
    Recognizing a huge mistake is one thing. It was the publicly admitting it that is un-Apple. They could have just silently stayed the course for awhile before announcing they had changed they're mind.
    - alpine 14y ago
      That's exactly what Steve would have done.
      - dsrguru 14y ago
        Yup. My first-gen white MacBook back in 2006 was one of the ones afflicted by the random shutdown issue (http://support.apple.com/kb/TS1599 http://support.apple.com/kb/TS1599). It took over a year iirc of local Apple stores blindly trying heat sink and logic board replacements before central management publicly acknowledged that an issue existed and promptly released a firmware upgrade to turn the fans on. Problem resolved.
    - nicholassmith 14y ago
      Apple admits they've made mistakes in a number of ways, I'm pretty sure they've verbally said "we've made a mistake, we're doing this instead". The more interesting facet is they admit a mistake whilst sticking to their original notion.
hollerith 14y ago
One datapoint: Almost all power cords and extension cords in the US contain lead: the lead is added to the plastic part of the cord when the plastic is still "molten" and its purpose is to make the plastic less flammable. Although I did not do a chemical assay on it or anything, I am pretty sure that the power cord Apple included with my 2011 Mac mini contains no lead. (The cord has a different, more rubbery feel to it that strongly suggests a completely different material, and I might have seen a claim to that effect somewhere on the web.)
mkaltenecker 14y ago
I’m thinking about whether this is an atypical reaction by Apple and I think it’s not but I’m not sure. The pattern is typical – more or less. Some criticism appears. Apple is dead silent for a few days. Apple has a comprehensive response to the criticism. (Alternative that also happens frequently: Apple doesn’t ever mention the criticism.) That’s what used to happen in the past, that’s what nearly happened here. The difference is that they responded with a different message pretty quickly after the criticism (arguing that EPAT isn’t such a great certification) so it’s not true that they staid completely silent. When it comes to the message itself, I don’t think it’s that atypical. Apple rarely responds to criticism, so there are few situations we can use to compare. It’s not as big a deal as Atennagate – so they picked a less involved way to respond (basically a press release instead of a press conference) – but in every other respect it’s pretty similar. This time there is a clearer Mea Culpa but the undertone is still that EPAT is a bad certification. (During the Antennagate press conference the undertone was that it’s not really that big of a deal – and it was a much more obvious undertone.) The tradition of Apple execs writing letters is also continued. I would only say that Steve’s letters tended to be more about presenting arguments. That has certainly something to do with the different purposes (explain why DRM/Flash are bad vs. admit that you were wrong and reverse direction) but I still would have preferred if Bob Mansfield had explained more of Apple’s reasoning.
- ajross 14y ago
  Are you sure you aren't too far into the tea leaves here? Swap out the specifics in what you wrote and it could describe basically any corporate PR organization. Not everything has to be a what-would-the-dead-guy-have-done-differently kind of analysis. They goofed. They thought the market didn't care about EPEAT. It did. They flipped. Yawn.
  - mkaltenecker 14y ago
    Hm, I think you have a point. I’m reading tea leaves. I still think that’s an interesting point to ponder, even if the results are probably highly subjective and very much open to interpretation.
- 14y ago
swilliams 14y ago
One interesting thing to note is that this is from Bob Mansfield, and not Tim Cook. When Jobs was CEO, I don't remember a subordinate ever releasing something like this.
- smackfu 14y ago
  They announced his retirement a few weeks ago too. http://www.macrumors.com/2012/06/28/svp-of-hardware-engineer-bob-mansfield-to-retire/ http://www.macrumors.com/2012/06/28/svp-of-hardware-engineer...
mtgx 14y ago
But does this mean their products will now be more recyclable and whatnot? Or it just means they put their EPEAT badge on the site again, although their new devices are still not as compliant as they used to be before?
- PedroCandeias 14y ago
  I don't think their products changed much in a couple of days. Some are still EPEAT compliant, some are not, just like last week.
  - sigzero 14y ago
    Though the last paragraph is interesting that there relationship is now "stronger". I wonder if Apple was just using this to say "See, it needs updating." Who knows....not I.
    - spiralpolitik 14y ago
      Apple realized that they needed EPEAT because some (vocal) customers cared about it. EPEAT realized that they needed Apple on board to make their certification meaningful. And thus an understanding was formed...
  - crusso 14y ago
    Was Apple able to re-categorize the compliance issues as misunderstandings? Did Apple agree to make product modifications or agree to follow standards in future designs? Or did Apple coerce EPEAT to just change their ratings?
    - PedroCandeias 14y ago
      There was no compliance issue. Apple already had 39 certified devices, they just chose to pull the EPEAT sticker off. Then they put it back on. Why they did that is up for debate. Source: http://blogs.wsj.com/cio/2012/07/06/apple-removes-green-electronics-certification-from-products/ http://blogs.wsj.com/cio/2012/07/06/apple-removes-green-elec...
dannyr 14y ago
When Apple decided to leave EPEAT, Apple Apologists/Fanboys said it's because EPEAT is outdated. I wonder how they are going to spin this one.
- jfoutz 14y ago
  Lots of ways, but you'll only remember the one that fits your worldview.
- adrr 14y ago
  Apple fanatics have similar brain patterns to religious people. No amount of logic and reason will sway them. I recently had discussion with a bartender who was asking about my rubber case that was on my iphone. He didn't like it because it didn't have a cut out for the apple symbol to show through. I asked him why does it matter and he replied "i want people to know i use apple products because it represents who i am". Criticizing Apple would be the same as criticizing them in their minds. Article on brain scans http://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/apple-causes-religious-reaction-in-brains-of-fans-say-neuroscientists/ http://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/apple-causes-religiou...
  - ceejayoz 14y ago
    > Apple fanatics have similar brain patterns to religious people. Any fanatic does. Find someone passionate about Android, or model railroading, or knitting, and they'll show up the same way in a brain scan. If you think Apple is unique in having over-the-top fans, that may be a sign that you're some sort of a fanatic yourself.
    - adrr 14y ago
      I've been a mac user since the mac plus came out. I'm typing this on a MBP, i have an MBAir for traveling, iphone, too many ipods, original ipad, and appletv. I like apple products. I just hate the recent crop of apple users aka brand hipsters. They've polluted the forums, user groups and mailing lists. You can't even have an intelligent debate about the product and apple's direction.
recursive 14y ago
What a coincidence! It just so happens that EPEAT is now relevant again!
- sambe 14y ago
  The entire thrust of their response - perhaps even half of the text - is that EPEAT remains outdated. So not really, no.
hell0_th3r3 14y ago
geez apple, get it together. i was mildly impressed by tim cook when he took over, but now i'm getting the impression that he is apple's steve ballmer. this was a ridiculous and trivially preventable gaff.
digitalengineer 14y ago
"Our relationship with EPEAT has become stronger as a result of this experience, and we look forward to working with EPEAT as their rating system and the underlying IEEE 1680.1 standard evolve" Reads to me like EPEAT is moving (a bit) in Apple's direction with the new future IEEE-standards.
droithomme 14y ago
"All eligible products" is a key, the new iPad with its glued in battery is not among them. The "more efficient and longer lasting" case materials he brags about are irrelevant in their disposable products made of low quality components that are not user serviceable or upgradable. It's like bragging you made your automobile frame out of solid titanium with a carbon fiber shell, but ignoring the fact that you built the engine without any way to change the oil, so you're going to be throwing it out or sending it in for major costly service after a short time. Such planned obsolescent designs are certainly not environmentally sound, and claims of the longevity and strength of the frame materials, and even of certifications, are just PR to distract and hypnotize the marketplace into believing the opposite of the reality of the situation.
- jasomill 14y ago
  Only if oil generally only needed to be replaced once or twice over the lifespan of a car, an oil change was traditionally so easy and convenient that most customers did it themselves, and the "expensive repair", in absolute terms, was only slightly more expensive than the retail price of oil change parts and supplies for otherwise comparable cars. So no, not really.
- leberwurstsaft 14y ago
  Tablets are not rated by EPEAT.
  - wtallis 14y ago
    I think that's the number one thing people have been overlooking in this scandal: EPEAT is behind the times by not even offering relevant standards for Apple's most important product segments.
    - barista 14y ago
      And if it offered relevant standards then it's quite likely that Apple won't qualify given how they are assembled.
unreal37 14y ago
"Apple makes the most environmentally responsible products in our industry." How is this possibly true? Nothing Apple makes can be easily opened, upgraded, or have their batteries replaced. They are made to be obsolete in 2-3 years. When my iPad screen cracked, they made me buy a new one (at discount) instead of fixing it. I doubt they even fixed the old one I gave to them - just discarded it. How is that environmentally friendly? I own almost everything Apple makes. But they need to better explain how built-in obsolescence and impossible-to-fix devices equates to environmentally friendly.
- bluthru 14y ago
  Apple products avoid plastic. They are not "made to be obsolete in 2-3 years". >I doubt they even fixed the old one I gave to them They do. It's sold as refurbished.
  - DigitalJack 14y ago
    No doubt the "new" one he got at a discount was a refurb as well. I had to exchange my 3gs due to a bad battery. The Apple guy brought out a white box 3gs as a replacement. I asked if it was new, and he got a little cryptic only saying it was in "like new condition."
    - TylerE 14y ago
      Isn't that basically the best possible reasonable outcome in that scenario? Would you prefer to spend the same amount of money, and then wait 3-8 weeks for it to get shipped off to a repair facility to be worked on?
      - DigitalJack 14y ago
        Oh, I absolutely agree. I think it is great. My comment was with regards to the grandparent post that claimed he had to purchase a new replacement--complaining it was wasteful. My point was that he very likely got a refurb, and then related my refurb replacement story. Sorry for not being clear.
rabidonrails 14y ago
I'm a bit thrown by the overall tone of this announcement. I'll totally on board that Apple is doing its best to make "green" products and, apparently they're leading the way - great! But if it's all true, why did they pull the products from EPEAT at all?
tscrib 14y ago
Glad to see that Apple is listening to customer feedback and acting on it.
abcd_f 14y ago
> Signed Bob A middle finger, the Apple way.
schiffern 14y ago
Things that everyone seems to be forgetting * Apple makes thin, light, durable products. Reduce > Recycle. * Raw materials are a small amount of the embodied energy in electronics. The microchips themselves constitute many times the embodied energy. Again, reduce > recycle. * As others have pointed out, Apple didn't do this because any of their newly-released products weren't eligible. Putting it all together, Apple did this to send a message to EPEAT: "Disassembly isn't the end-all be-all of green." Looks like EPEAT caved.
guscost 14y ago
Well, I have less respect for Apple now, and still none for Greenpeace.

157 points by kellysutton 14y ago

younata 14y ago

The retina macbook is rated EPEAT gold. http://www.apple.com/macbook-pro/specs/ http://www.apple.com/macbook-pro/specs/

glhaynes 14y ago
Interesting! Unless I'm misunderstanding a subtlety here, the common wisdom seemed to be that the retina MacBook's glue made it ineligible to get EPEAT certification and, since that style of design is obviously Apple's future direction, they pulled their EPEAT participation now.
- younata 14y ago
  That's actually the first thing I checked once I saw the press release. It mentions that they're putting EPEAT Gold certification on their eligible products, and I'm curious if ineligible products means some of the accessories they sell, and that all their computers meet EPEAT gold.
  - mbreese 14y ago
    I assume eligible means computers and displays but not iPads, since EPEAT doesn't rate tablets.
- cube13 14y ago
  It means one of two different things: Either Apple has changed the glue used in the retina MBP's to go in-line with EPEAT's certification, or the glue was not rated by EPEAT, which would cause them to not certify it in the first place, but it did satisfy the other requirements, so Apple was able to force the certification through.
- mkaltenecker 14y ago
  I think many people misunderstand where the glue is in the Retina MacBook Pro. They say things like “The display is glued to the case.” which is wrong. The display assembly (the actual screen where the lights shine true) is glued together. I’m not sure but I think that part of the display is always pretty tightly integrated, probably even glued together. (I tried to find information on that and I would be very glad if someone could point me to resources about how laptop displays are usually built.) The difference with Apple’s design (as far as I understand it) is that the frontmost layer of that assembly is also the front glass of the screen. Other laptops with glass in front of the screen put an extra layer of glass in front of the display assembly. The Retina MacBook Pro doesn’t have that extra glass. (My understanding – but please correct me if I’m wrong, I’m really not sure and I would like to know more – is that old displays had a sort of plastic outer layer, now Apple uses a glass outer layer. But that’s not that a big deal, as far as I know, since on the inside all LCDs use glass substrate also – so it’s not as if Apple introduced glass into the display assembly, some was always there, they just added more. But maybe I’m wrong about that.) That display assembly is screwed – not glued – to the case. Behind it are the LEDs and light diffusers. Here is a teardown of the display: http://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/MacBook-Pro-15-Inch-Retina-Display-Teardown/9493/1#.T-B6X6DrlaR http://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/MacBook-Pro-15-Inch-Retina-Di... The battery is glued to the case - but it seems to that it is eminently removable with the application of some force. If you don’t care about breaking the laptop (since you want to recycle it) that should be no big deal. I mean, Apple replaces the battery for $200, no questions asked. I don’t think they replace the whole Retina MacBook Pro every time they do that, so they must remove the glued-in battery, and that inside a working laptop. If Apple can do it, so can you (especially with a laptop that’s beyond repair).
  - grecy 14y ago
    > Apple replaces the battery for $200, no questions asked. I don’t think they replace the whole Retina MacBook Pro every time they do that, so they must remove the glued-in battery, and that inside a working laptop. If Apple can do it, so can you (especially with a laptop that’s beyond repair). This is the best explanation I've seen. Somehow everyone has forgotten this.
    - 14y ago
bcrescimanno 14y ago
Read the fine print; it says, "Macbook Pro was rated EPEAT gold." Everywhere else, the Retina Macbook Pro is referred to as "Macbook Pro with Retina Display." They are separate products; and, I'm guessing the EPEAT gold rating does not apply to the Retina MBP (though, if someone can show otherwise, that'd be great).
- glhaynes 14y ago
  Their environmental report for the MacBook Pro with Retina Display (PDF: http://images.apple.com/environment/reports/docs/macbookpro_retinadisplay_per_june2012.pdf http://images.apple.com/environment/reports/docs/macbookpro_...) specifically says it "Achieves a Gold rating from EPEAT".
  - deleted 14y ago
    [deleted]
  - keithpeter 14y ago
    So you can recycle glass glued to aluminium easily? That is interesting news
    - bdcravens 14y ago
      What do you mean by easily? Recycling is a very industrial operation; it's more than just the neat little recycling containers you see in the suburbs. If iFixit shows you how to do it, you can be guaranteed that professional recyclers can do it. Especially if it's a material of value: they meticulously disassemble dishwashers all the time for the copper contained within. tldr; recycling != recycling bin
  - bcrescimanno 14y ago
    Ah, fair enough. I didn't really go beyond the linked page for the MBP. The fine print seemed just fishy enough to warrant the notion that it didn't mean exactly what it implied. Thanks for setting me right.

deleted 14y ago

[deleted]

derwildemomo 14y ago

"I recognize that this was a mistake." strikes me as a very un-appleish communication style.

alpine 14y ago
I agree. Worryingly, it could be evidence of a move away from traditional Steve values, ie don't back down (straight away), don't apologise, don't explain. Alternatively, it could be Apple realise they made a huge mistake, were about to see immense damage to the brand and/or sales, so have taken the drastic, ajobsian action they think is required.
- jack-r-abbit 14y ago
  Recognizing a huge mistake is one thing. It was the publicly admitting it that is un-Apple. They could have just silently stayed the course for awhile before announcing they had changed they're mind.
  - alpine 14y ago
    That's exactly what Steve would have done.
    - dsrguru 14y ago
      Yup. My first-gen white MacBook back in 2006 was one of the ones afflicted by the random shutdown issue (http://support.apple.com/kb/TS1599 http://support.apple.com/kb/TS1599). It took over a year iirc of local Apple stores blindly trying heat sink and logic board replacements before central management publicly acknowledged that an issue existed and promptly released a firmware upgrade to turn the fans on. Problem resolved.
  - nicholassmith 14y ago
    Apple admits they've made mistakes in a number of ways, I'm pretty sure they've verbally said "we've made a mistake, we're doing this instead". The more interesting facet is they admit a mistake whilst sticking to their original notion.

hollerith 14y ago

One datapoint: Almost all power cords and extension cords in the US contain lead: the lead is added to the plastic part of the cord when the plastic is still "molten" and its purpose is to make the plastic less flammable. Although I did not do a chemical assay on it or anything, I am pretty sure that the power cord Apple included with my 2011 Mac mini contains no lead. (The cord has a different, more rubbery feel to it that strongly suggests a completely different material, and I might have seen a claim to that effect somewhere on the web.)

mkaltenecker 14y ago

I’m thinking about whether this is an atypical reaction by Apple and I think it’s not but I’m not sure. The pattern is typical – more or less. Some criticism appears. Apple is dead silent for a few days. Apple has a comprehensive response to the criticism. (Alternative that also happens frequently: Apple doesn’t ever mention the criticism.) That’s what used to happen in the past, that’s what nearly happened here. The difference is that they responded with a different message pretty quickly after the criticism (arguing that EPAT isn’t such a great certification) so it’s not true that they staid completely silent. When it comes to the message itself, I don’t think it’s that atypical. Apple rarely responds to criticism, so there are few situations we can use to compare. It’s not as big a deal as Atennagate – so they picked a less involved way to respond (basically a press release instead of a press conference) – but in every other respect it’s pretty similar. This time there is a clearer Mea Culpa but the undertone is still that EPAT is a bad certification. (During the Antennagate press conference the undertone was that it’s not really that big of a deal – and it was a much more obvious undertone.) The tradition of Apple execs writing letters is also continued. I would only say that Steve’s letters tended to be more about presenting arguments. That has certainly something to do with the different purposes (explain why DRM/Flash are bad vs. admit that you were wrong and reverse direction) but I still would have preferred if Bob Mansfield had explained more of Apple’s reasoning.

ajross 14y ago
Are you sure you aren't too far into the tea leaves here? Swap out the specifics in what you wrote and it could describe basically any corporate PR organization. Not everything has to be a what-would-the-dead-guy-have-done-differently kind of analysis. They goofed. They thought the market didn't care about EPEAT. It did. They flipped. Yawn.
- mkaltenecker 14y ago
  Hm, I think you have a point. I’m reading tea leaves. I still think that’s an interesting point to ponder, even if the results are probably highly subjective and very much open to interpretation.
14y ago

swilliams 14y ago

One interesting thing to note is that this is from Bob Mansfield, and not Tim Cook. When Jobs was CEO, I don't remember a subordinate ever releasing something like this.

smackfu 14y ago
They announced his retirement a few weeks ago too. http://www.macrumors.com/2012/06/28/svp-of-hardware-engineer-bob-mansfield-to-retire/ http://www.macrumors.com/2012/06/28/svp-of-hardware-engineer...

mtgx 14y ago

But does this mean their products will now be more recyclable and whatnot? Or it just means they put their EPEAT badge on the site again, although their new devices are still not as compliant as they used to be before?

PedroCandeias 14y ago
I don't think their products changed much in a couple of days. Some are still EPEAT compliant, some are not, just like last week.
- sigzero 14y ago
  Though the last paragraph is interesting that there relationship is now "stronger". I wonder if Apple was just using this to say "See, it needs updating." Who knows....not I.
  - spiralpolitik 14y ago
    Apple realized that they needed EPEAT because some (vocal) customers cared about it. EPEAT realized that they needed Apple on board to make their certification meaningful. And thus an understanding was formed...
- crusso 14y ago
  Was Apple able to re-categorize the compliance issues as misunderstandings? Did Apple agree to make product modifications or agree to follow standards in future designs? Or did Apple coerce EPEAT to just change their ratings?
  - PedroCandeias 14y ago
    There was no compliance issue. Apple already had 39 certified devices, they just chose to pull the EPEAT sticker off. Then they put it back on. Why they did that is up for debate. Source: http://blogs.wsj.com/cio/2012/07/06/apple-removes-green-electronics-certification-from-products/ http://blogs.wsj.com/cio/2012/07/06/apple-removes-green-elec...

dannyr 14y ago

When Apple decided to leave EPEAT, Apple Apologists/Fanboys said it's because EPEAT is outdated. I wonder how they are going to spin this one.

jfoutz 14y ago
Lots of ways, but you'll only remember the one that fits your worldview.
adrr 14y ago
Apple fanatics have similar brain patterns to religious people. No amount of logic and reason will sway them. I recently had discussion with a bartender who was asking about my rubber case that was on my iphone. He didn't like it because it didn't have a cut out for the apple symbol to show through. I asked him why does it matter and he replied "i want people to know i use apple products because it represents who i am". Criticizing Apple would be the same as criticizing them in their minds. Article on brain scans http://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/apple-causes-religious-reaction-in-brains-of-fans-say-neuroscientists/ http://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/apple-causes-religiou...
- ceejayoz 14y ago
  > Apple fanatics have similar brain patterns to religious people. Any fanatic does. Find someone passionate about Android, or model railroading, or knitting, and they'll show up the same way in a brain scan. If you think Apple is unique in having over-the-top fans, that may be a sign that you're some sort of a fanatic yourself.
  - adrr 14y ago
    I've been a mac user since the mac plus came out. I'm typing this on a MBP, i have an MBAir for traveling, iphone, too many ipods, original ipad, and appletv. I like apple products. I just hate the recent crop of apple users aka brand hipsters. They've polluted the forums, user groups and mailing lists. You can't even have an intelligent debate about the product and apple's direction.

recursive 14y ago

What a coincidence! It just so happens that EPEAT is now relevant again!

sambe 14y ago
The entire thrust of their response - perhaps even half of the text - is that EPEAT remains outdated. So not really, no.

hell0_th3r3 14y ago

geez apple, get it together. i was mildly impressed by tim cook when he took over, but now i'm getting the impression that he is apple's steve ballmer. this was a ridiculous and trivially preventable gaff.

digitalengineer 14y ago

"Our relationship with EPEAT has become stronger as a result of this experience, and we look forward to working with EPEAT as their rating system and the underlying IEEE 1680.1 standard evolve" Reads to me like EPEAT is moving (a bit) in Apple's direction with the new future IEEE-standards.

droithomme 14y ago

"All eligible products" is a key, the new iPad with its glued in battery is not among them. The "more efficient and longer lasting" case materials he brags about are irrelevant in their disposable products made of low quality components that are not user serviceable or upgradable. It's like bragging you made your automobile frame out of solid titanium with a carbon fiber shell, but ignoring the fact that you built the engine without any way to change the oil, so you're going to be throwing it out or sending it in for major costly service after a short time. Such planned obsolescent designs are certainly not environmentally sound, and claims of the longevity and strength of the frame materials, and even of certifications, are just PR to distract and hypnotize the marketplace into believing the opposite of the reality of the situation.

jasomill 14y ago
Only if oil generally only needed to be replaced once or twice over the lifespan of a car, an oil change was traditionally so easy and convenient that most customers did it themselves, and the "expensive repair", in absolute terms, was only slightly more expensive than the retail price of oil change parts and supplies for otherwise comparable cars. So no, not really.
leberwurstsaft 14y ago
Tablets are not rated by EPEAT.
- wtallis 14y ago
  I think that's the number one thing people have been overlooking in this scandal: EPEAT is behind the times by not even offering relevant standards for Apple's most important product segments.
  - barista 14y ago
    And if it offered relevant standards then it's quite likely that Apple won't qualify given how they are assembled.

unreal37 14y ago

"Apple makes the most environmentally responsible products in our industry." How is this possibly true? Nothing Apple makes can be easily opened, upgraded, or have their batteries replaced. They are made to be obsolete in 2-3 years. When my iPad screen cracked, they made me buy a new one (at discount) instead of fixing it. I doubt they even fixed the old one I gave to them - just discarded it. How is that environmentally friendly? I own almost everything Apple makes. But they need to better explain how built-in obsolescence and impossible-to-fix devices equates to environmentally friendly.

bluthru 14y ago
Apple products avoid plastic. They are not "made to be obsolete in 2-3 years". >I doubt they even fixed the old one I gave to them They do. It's sold as refurbished.
- DigitalJack 14y ago
  No doubt the "new" one he got at a discount was a refurb as well. I had to exchange my 3gs due to a bad battery. The Apple guy brought out a white box 3gs as a replacement. I asked if it was new, and he got a little cryptic only saying it was in "like new condition."
  - TylerE 14y ago
    Isn't that basically the best possible reasonable outcome in that scenario? Would you prefer to spend the same amount of money, and then wait 3-8 weeks for it to get shipped off to a repair facility to be worked on?
    - DigitalJack 14y ago
      Oh, I absolutely agree. I think it is great. My comment was with regards to the grandparent post that claimed he had to purchase a new replacement--complaining it was wasteful. My point was that he very likely got a refurb, and then related my refurb replacement story. Sorry for not being clear.

rabidonrails 14y ago

I'm a bit thrown by the overall tone of this announcement. I'll totally on board that Apple is doing its best to make "green" products and, apparently they're leading the way - great! But if it's all true, why did they pull the products from EPEAT at all?

tscrib 14y ago

Glad to see that Apple is listening to customer feedback and acting on it.

abcd_f 14y ago

> Signed Bob A middle finger, the Apple way.

schiffern 14y ago

Things that everyone seems to be forgetting * Apple makes thin, light, durable products. Reduce > Recycle. * Raw materials are a small amount of the embodied energy in electronics. The microchips themselves constitute many times the embodied energy. Again, reduce > recycle. * As others have pointed out, Apple didn't do this because any of their newly-released products weren't eligible. Putting it all together, Apple did this to send a message to EPEAT: "Disassembly isn't the end-all be-all of green." Looks like EPEAT caved.

guscost 14y ago

Well, I have less respect for Apple now, and still none for Greenpeace.