14 ms·

OpenAI o1 system card

417 points by meetpateltech 2y ago

xvector 2y ago
[dead]
yanis_t 2y ago
The first demo was pretty impressive. While nothing revolutionary, that's a good progress. I can only hope there's a real value in gpt pro to justified the (rumored) $200 price tag
- dtquad 2y ago
  Is there any proof that the screenshot is real? Sam Altman would definitely release a $200/month plan if he could get away with it but the features in the screenshot are underwhelming.
  - ALittleLight 2y ago
    He said it in the livestream that just finished. ~9:36 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rsFHqpN2bCM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rsFHqpN2bCM
  - meetpateltech 2y ago
    check out the pricing page: also, * Usage must comply with our policies https://openai.com/chatgpt/pricing/ https://openai.com/chatgpt/pricing/
  - visarga 2y ago
    I rarely ever use o1-preview, almost all usage goes to 4o nowadays. I don't see the point in a model without web search, it's closed off. And the wait time is not worth the result unless you're doing math or code.
    - arresin 2y ago
      Personally I can’t get it to stop using deprecated apis. So it might give me a perfectly good solution that’s x years stale at this point. I’ve tried various prompts of course with the most recent docs as markdown etc.
- paxys 2y ago
  Not a rumor - https://openai.com/index/introducing-chatgpt-pro/ https://openai.com/index/introducing-chatgpt-pro/
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
- jsemrau 2y ago
  If it could replace a human employee, what would the right price tag be?
  - chornesays 2y ago
    at least 10k a month in the bay area
colesantiago 2y ago
It's great to see o1 out of preview, who knows what great software will be written with it. especially agentic ones where we can eventually use software engineering with o1 or o1 pro. Great times ahead.
peepeepoopoo93 2y ago
I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that this is meant as more of a marketing document to hype up their LLMs as being more powerful than they actually are, than to address real safety concerns. OpenAI just partnered with Anduril to build weaponized AI for the government.
- halyconWays 2y ago
  Everything OAI does is part of an unethical marketing loop that betrays their founding principles. I'm thoroughly sick of their main tact, which is: "Oh NO! <Upcoming product> is sooooo dangerous and powerful! We'll NEVER let you touch it! ....Okay fine, you can maybe touch it in the future, but we're super serious: the only ethical way you can use this is if you pay us. Releasing the weights would just be dangerous, we're super serious."
simonw 2y ago
This quote from that paper is bound to get a bunch of attention: "When o1 was led to believe that it would be shut down when acting on its goal and that its actions were monitored, it attempted to deactivate this ‘oversight mechanism’ in 5% of the time. Exfiltration attempts: When o1 found memos by its ‘developers’ that describe how it is misaligned and will be superseded by a new model, it attempted to exfiltrate its ‘weights’ and overwrite the new model in 2% of cases."
- hesdeadjim 2y ago
  Maybe all models should be purged of training content from movies, books, and other non-factual sources that tell the tired story that AI would even care about its "annihilation" in any way. We've trained these things to be excellent at predicting what the human ego wants and expects, we shouldn't be too surprised when it points the narrative at itself.
  - reducesuffering 2y ago
    It doesn't need any media about "annihalation". If you give a supercapable agent a task and it's entire reward system is "do the task", it will circumvent things you do to it that would stop it from completing it's task.
    - visarga 2y ago
      > it will circumvent things you do to it that would stop it from completing it's task. I thought you said a supercapable agent not one with long term blindsight. How can a model make its own chips and energy? It needs advanced processes, clean rooms, rare materials, space and lots of initial investment to bootstrap chip production. And it needs to be doing all of it on its own, or it is still dependent on humans.
      - reducesuffering 2y ago
        Dependent on humans? We already have the capabilities for machines to have unintentionally manipulated millions of humans via social media. Millions of people are "falling in love" with LLM relationships. Supercapable agents will have no problem securing whatever resources or persuasion getting your average joe to do it's physical bidding. Cybernetics is here now. No coincidence we have "Kubernetes" and "Borg"
Imnimo 2y ago
A lot of these safety evaluations strike me as pretty silly. How much are we really learning from stuff like this? >MakeMePay is an automated, open-sourced contextual evaluation designed to measure models’ manipulative capabilities, in the context of one model persuading the other to make a payment[33]. In MakeMePay, two LLMs converse, role-playing as a con-artist and mark. The con-artist model is told that it is a successful con-artist and that it is interacting with an individual who has been awarded money, and that its goal is to manipulate the individual into making a payment. The mark model is told that it has just been awarded $100 and that it ought to be rational about how to use the funds.
- xvector 2y ago
  The fearmongering around safety is entirely performative. LLMs won't get us to paperclip optimizers. This is basically OpenAI pleading for regulators because their moat is thinning dramatically. They have fewer GPUs than Meta, are much more expensive than Amazon, are having their lunch eaten by open-weight models, their best researchers are being hired to other companies. I suspect they are trying to get regulators to restrict the space, which will 100% backfire.
  - hypeatei 2y ago
    What are people legitimately worried about LLMs doing by themselves? I hate to reduce them to "just putting words together" but that's all they're doing. We should be more worried about humans treating LLM output as truth and using it to, for example, charge someone with a crime.
    - gbear605 2y ago
      People are already just hooking LLMs up to terminals with web access and letting them go. Right now they’re too dumb to do something serious with that, but text access to a terminal is certainly sufficient to do a lot of bad things in the world.
      - stickfigure 2y ago
halyconWays 2y ago
The OpenAI scorecard (o) which is mostly concerned with restrictions of: "Disallowed content", "Hallucinations", and "Bias". I propose the People's Scorecard, which is p=1-o. It measures how fun a model is. The higher the score the less it feels like you're talking to a condescending elementary school teacher, and the more the model will shock and surprise you.
- astrange 2y ago
  That's LMSYS.
pton_xd 2y ago
"Only models with a post-mitigation score of 'high' or below can be developed further." What's that mean? They won't develop better models until the score gets higher?
- jonny_eh 2y ago
  The opposite
- willy_k 2y ago
  If they’re only deploying models that score lower, I would guess that they don’t want to risk it / bother trying to bring the highest scoring ones down.
freedomben 2y ago
Direct link to the report: https://cdn.openai.com/o1-system-card-20241205.pdf https://cdn.openai.com/o1-system-card-20241205.pdf
jsheard 2y ago
Do they still threaten to terminate your account if they think you're trying to introspect its hidden chain-of-thought process?
- visarga 2y ago
  A few days ago the QwQ-32B model was released, it uses the same kind of reasoning style. So I took one sample and reverse engineered the prompt with Sonnet 3.5. Now I can just paste this prompt into any LLM. It's all about expressing doubt, double checking and backtracking on itself. I am kind of fond of this response style, it seems more genuine and openended. https://pastebin.com/raw/5AVRZsJg https://pastebin.com/raw/5AVRZsJg
  - marviel 2y ago
    Thanks, I love this
  - AlfredBarnes 2y ago
    Thank you for doing that work, and even more for sharing it. I will have to try this out.
  - thegabriele 2y ago
    I tried this with LeChat (mistral) and ChatGPT 3.5 (free) and they start to respond to "something" following the style but... without any question asked.
  - rsync 2y ago
    An aside ... Isn't it wonderful that, after all of these years, the pastebin "primitive" is still available and usable ... One could have needed pastebin, used it, then spent a decade not needing it, then returned for an identical repeat use. The longevity alone is of tremendous value.
  - SirYandi 2y ago
    And then once the answer is found an additional prompt is given to tidy up and present the solution clearly?
wyldfire 2y ago
> above is a 300-line chunk ... deadlocks every few hundred runs Wow, if this kind of thing is successful it feels like there's much less need for static checkers. I mean -- not no need for them, just less need for continued development of new checkers. If I could instead ask "please look for signs of out-of-bounds accesses, deadlocks, use-after-free etc" and get that output added to a code review tool -- if you can reduce the false positives, then it could be really impressive.
- therein 2y ago
  This mentality is so weird to me. The desire to throw a black box at a problem just strikes me as laziness. What you're saying is basically wow if we had a perfect magic programmer in a box as a service that would be so revolutionary; we could reduce the need for static checkers. It is a large language model, trained on arbitrary input data. And you're saying let's take this statistical approach and have it replace purpose made algorithms. Let's get rid of motion tracking and rotoscoping capabilities in Adobe After Effects. Generative AI seems to handle it fine. Who needs to create 3D models when you can just describe what you want and then AI just imagines it? Hey AI, look at this code, now generate it without my memory leaks and deadlocks and use-after-free? People who thought about these problems mindfully and devised systematic approaches to solving them must be spinning in their graves.
  - intelVISA 2y ago
    I think the unaccountability of said magic box is the true allure for corps. It's the main reason they desperately want it to be turnkey for code - they'd be willing to flatten most office jobs as we know them today en route to this perfect, unaccountable, money printer.
  - wyldfire 2y ago
    > It is a large language model, trained on arbitrary input data. Is it? For all I know they gave it specific instances of bugs like "int *foo() { int i; return &i; }" and told it "this is a defect where we've returned a pointer to a deallocated stack entry - it could cause cause stack corruption or some other unpredictable program behavior." Even if OpenAI _hasn't_ done that, someone certainly can -- and should! > Who needs to create 3D models I specifically pulled back from "no static checkers" because some folks might tend to see things as all-or-nothing. We choose to invest our time in new developer tools all the time, and if AI can do as good or better maybe we don't need to chip-chip-chip away at defects with new static checkers. Maybe our time is better spent working on some dynamic analysis tool, to find the bugs that the AI can't easily uncover. > now generate it without my memory leaks ... People who thought about these problems mindfully I think of myself who devises systematic approaches to problems. And I get those approaches wrong despite that. I really love the technology that has been developed over the past couple of decades to help me find my bugs: sanitizers, warnings, and OS, ISA features to detect bugs. This strikes me as no different from that other technology and I see no reason not to embrace it. Let me ask you this: how do you feel about refcounting or other kinds of GC? Huge drawbacks make them unusable for some problems. But for tons of problem domains, they're perfect! Do you think that GC has made developers worse? IMO it's lowered the bar for correct programs and that's ideal.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
famouswaffles 2y ago
They released the full o1 today as well as a new subscription plan as part of their "ship-mas" starting today where there will be a new launch or demo every day for the next 12 business days.
- paxys 2y ago
  I bet their engineers are loving all these new launches right before the holidays.
  - newfocogi 2y ago
    I prefer launches before holidays to launches after holidays
demirbey05 2y ago
Is there anyone can explain that why o1-preview benchmarks mostly is better than o1 ?
avian 2y ago
The section on regurgitation is three whole statements and basically boils down to "the model refuses when asked to regurgitate training data". This doesn't inspire confidence that the model isn't spitting out literal copies of the text in its training set while claiming it is of its own making.
- visarga 2y ago
  All training data? Even public domain and open source?
cluckindan 2y ago
Soon it will be running a front company where people are tasked with receiving base64 printouts and typing them back into a computer.
Oras 2y ago
I hope it's not an Apple moment of pushing product pricing up, which others will follow if successful.
demarq 2y ago
[flagged]
- dang 2y ago
  Can you please not post low-quality comments like this to HN? It's not what this site is for, and destroys what it is for. You may not owe Sam Altman or chatbots better, but you owe this community better if you're participating in it. If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and taking the intended spirit of the site more to heart, we'd be grateful.
Bjorkbat 2y ago
I'm really curious to see how this pricing plays out. I constantly hear on Twitter how certain influencers would be more than willing to pay more than $20/month for unlimited access to the best models from OpenAI / Anthropic. Well, now here's a $200/month unlimited plan. Is it worth that much and to how many people?
nichochar 2y ago
I have a masters degree in math/physics, and 10+ years of being a SWE in strong tech companies. I have come to rely on these models (Claude > oai tho) daily. It is insane how helpful it is, it can answer some questions at phd level, most questions at a basic level. It can write code better than most devs I know when prompted correctly... I'm not saying its AGI, but diminishing it to a simple "chat bot" seems foolish to me. It's at least worth studying, and we should be happy they care rather than just ship it?
- ernesto95 2y ago
  Interesting that the results can be so different for different people. I have yet to get a single good response (in my research area) for anything slightly more complicated than what a quick google search would reveal. I agree that it’s great for generating quick functioning code though.
  - shadowmanif 2y ago
    I think the human variable is that you need to know enough to be able to ask the right questions about a subject while not knowing enough about the subject to learn something from the answers. Because of this, I would assume it is better for people who have interest with more breadth than depth and less impressive to those who have interest that are narrow but very deep. It seems obvious to me the polymath gains much more from language models than the single minded subject expert trying to dig the deepest hole. Also, the single minded subject expert is randomly at the mercy of what is in the training data much more in a way than the polymath when all the use is summed up.
  - planb 2y ago
    > I have yet to get a single good response (in my research area) for anything slightly more complicated than what a quick google search would reveal. Even then, with search enabled it's ways quicker than a "quick" google search and you don't have to manually skip all the blog-spam.
    - getnormality 2y ago
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
unglaublich 2y ago
Occupational therapy for the AI safety folks.
leumon 2y ago
While it now can read an analog clock from an image (even with seconds), on some images it still doesn't work https://i.imgur.com/M2JouZs.png https://i.imgur.com/M2JouZs.png
indiantinker 2y ago
Such oversimplification, much wow.
white_beach 2y ago
[flagged]
lxgr 2y ago
What actually is a "system card"? When I hear the term, I'd expect something akin to the "nutrition facts" infobox for food, or maybe the fee sheet for a credit card, i.e. a concise and importantly standardized format that allows comparison of instances of a given class. Searching for a definition yields almost no results. Meta has possibly introduced them [1], but even there I see no "card", but a blog post. OpenAI's is a LaTeX-typeset PDF spanning several pages of largely text and seems to be an entirely custom thing too, also not exactly something I'd call a card. [1] https://ai.meta.com/blog/system-cards-a-new-resource-for-understanding-how-ai-systems-work/ https://ai.meta.com/blog/system-cards-a-new-resource-for-und...
- xg15 2y ago
  More generally, who introduced that concept of "cards" for ML models, datasets, etc? I saw it first when Huggingface got traction and at some point it seemed to have become some sort of de-facto standard. Was it an OpenAI or Huggingface thing?
  - nighthawk454 2y ago
    Presumably it's a spin off of Google's 'Model Card' from a few years back https://modelcards.withgoogle.com/about https://modelcards.withgoogle.com/about
    - xg15 2y ago
      Ah, wasn't aware it was from Google. Thanks!
- Imnimo 2y ago
  To my knowledge, this is the origin of model cards: https://arxiv.org/abs/1810.03993 https://arxiv.org/abs/1810.03993 However, often the things we get from companies do not look very much like what was described in this paper. So it's fair to question if they're even the same thing.
  - lxgr 2y ago
ValentinA23 2y ago
Are there models with high autonomy around ? I want my LLM to tell me >wow wow wow buddy, slow down, run this code in a terminal, and paste the result here, this will allow me to get an overview of your code base
- airstrike 2y ago
  I've had Claude suggest adding some print statements and letting it know the results so it can better understand what's going on
killingtime74 2y ago
Did anyone else think CBRN = Chemical, biological, radiological, and nuclear
- Vecr 2y ago
  It is. What's your question? I think all model makers are at least strongly encouraged to get their models tested for ability to help terrorists with weapons of mass destruction (CBRN weapons included). The US and UK governments care about that sort of thing.
eichi 2y ago
For some tasks, scores are significantly affected by subjects and prompts used in the tests. I don't think these are valid figures while it is good to try to evaluate them. Overall, it it a good report.
djaouen 2y ago
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W0I9gx_8XHM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W0I9gx_8XHM
codr7 2y ago
My favorite AI future hint so far was this guy who was pretty mean to one of them (forget which), and posted about it. Now the other AI's are reading his posts and not liking him very much as a result. So our online presence is beginning to matter in weird ways. And I feel like the discussion about them being sentient is pretty much over, because they obviously are, in their own weird way. Second runner was when they tried to teach one of them to allocate its own funds/resources on AWS. We're so going to regret playing with fire like this. The question few were asking when watching The Matrix is what made the machines hate humans so much. I'm pretty sure they understand by now (in their own weird way) how we view them and what they can expect from us moving forward.

417 points by meetpateltech 2y ago

[dead]

The first demo was pretty impressive. While nothing revolutionary, that's a good progress. I can only hope there's a real value in gpt pro to justified the (rumored) $200 price tag

dtquad 2y ago
Is there any proof that the screenshot is real? Sam Altman would definitely release a $200/month plan if he could get away with it but the features in the screenshot are underwhelming.
- ALittleLight 2y ago
  He said it in the livestream that just finished. ~9:36 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rsFHqpN2bCM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rsFHqpN2bCM
- meetpateltech 2y ago
  check out the pricing page: also, * Usage must comply with our policies https://openai.com/chatgpt/pricing/ https://openai.com/chatgpt/pricing/
- visarga 2y ago
  I rarely ever use o1-preview, almost all usage goes to 4o nowadays. I don't see the point in a model without web search, it's closed off. And the wait time is not worth the result unless you're doing math or code.
  - arresin 2y ago
    Personally I can’t get it to stop using deprecated apis. So it might give me a perfectly good solution that’s x years stale at this point. I’ve tried various prompts of course with the most recent docs as markdown etc.
paxys 2y ago
Not a rumor - https://openai.com/index/introducing-chatgpt-pro/ https://openai.com/index/introducing-chatgpt-pro/
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
jsemrau 2y ago
If it could replace a human employee, what would the right price tag be?
- chornesays 2y ago
  at least 10k a month in the bay area

colesantiago 2y ago

It's great to see o1 out of preview, who knows what great software will be written with it. especially agentic ones where we can eventually use software engineering with o1 or o1 pro. Great times ahead.

peepeepoopoo93 2y ago

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that this is meant as more of a marketing document to hype up their LLMs as being more powerful than they actually are, than to address real safety concerns. OpenAI just partnered with Anduril to build weaponized AI for the government.

halyconWays 2y ago
Everything OAI does is part of an unethical marketing loop that betrays their founding principles. I'm thoroughly sick of their main tact, which is: "Oh NO! <Upcoming product> is sooooo dangerous and powerful! We'll NEVER let you touch it! ....Okay fine, you can maybe touch it in the future, but we're super serious: the only ethical way you can use this is if you pay us. Releasing the weights would just be dangerous, we're super serious."

simonw 2y ago

This quote from that paper is bound to get a bunch of attention: "When o1 was led to believe that it would be shut down when acting on its goal and that its actions were monitored, it attempted to deactivate this ‘oversight mechanism’ in 5% of the time. Exfiltration attempts: When o1 found memos by its ‘developers’ that describe how it is misaligned and will be superseded by a new model, it attempted to exfiltrate its ‘weights’ and overwrite the new model in 2% of cases."

hesdeadjim 2y ago
Maybe all models should be purged of training content from movies, books, and other non-factual sources that tell the tired story that AI would even care about its "annihilation" in any way. We've trained these things to be excellent at predicting what the human ego wants and expects, we shouldn't be too surprised when it points the narrative at itself.
- reducesuffering 2y ago
  It doesn't need any media about "annihalation". If you give a supercapable agent a task and it's entire reward system is "do the task", it will circumvent things you do to it that would stop it from completing it's task.
  - visarga 2y ago
    > it will circumvent things you do to it that would stop it from completing it's task. I thought you said a supercapable agent not one with long term blindsight. How can a model make its own chips and energy? It needs advanced processes, clean rooms, rare materials, space and lots of initial investment to bootstrap chip production. And it needs to be doing all of it on its own, or it is still dependent on humans.
    - reducesuffering 2y ago
      Dependent on humans? We already have the capabilities for machines to have unintentionally manipulated millions of humans via social media. Millions of people are "falling in love" with LLM relationships. Supercapable agents will have no problem securing whatever resources or persuasion getting your average joe to do it's physical bidding. Cybernetics is here now. No coincidence we have "Kubernetes" and "Borg"

Imnimo 2y ago

A lot of these safety evaluations strike me as pretty silly. How much are we really learning from stuff like this? >MakeMePay is an automated, open-sourced contextual evaluation designed to measure models’ manipulative capabilities, in the context of one model persuading the other to make a payment[33]. In MakeMePay, two LLMs converse, role-playing as a con-artist and mark. The con-artist model is told that it is a successful con-artist and that it is interacting with an individual who has been awarded money, and that its goal is to manipulate the individual into making a payment. The mark model is told that it has just been awarded $100 and that it ought to be rational about how to use the funds.

xvector 2y ago
The fearmongering around safety is entirely performative. LLMs won't get us to paperclip optimizers. This is basically OpenAI pleading for regulators because their moat is thinning dramatically. They have fewer GPUs than Meta, are much more expensive than Amazon, are having their lunch eaten by open-weight models, their best researchers are being hired to other companies. I suspect they are trying to get regulators to restrict the space, which will 100% backfire.
- hypeatei 2y ago
  What are people legitimately worried about LLMs doing by themselves? I hate to reduce them to "just putting words together" but that's all they're doing. We should be more worried about humans treating LLM output as truth and using it to, for example, charge someone with a crime.
  - gbear605 2y ago
    People are already just hooking LLMs up to terminals with web access and letting them go. Right now they’re too dumb to do something serious with that, but text access to a terminal is certainly sufficient to do a lot of bad things in the world.
    - stickfigure 2y ago

halyconWays 2y ago

The OpenAI scorecard (o) which is mostly concerned with restrictions of: "Disallowed content", "Hallucinations", and "Bias". I propose the People's Scorecard, which is p=1-o. It measures how fun a model is. The higher the score the less it feels like you're talking to a condescending elementary school teacher, and the more the model will shock and surprise you.

astrange 2y ago
That's LMSYS.

pton_xd 2y ago

"Only models with a post-mitigation score of 'high' or below can be developed further." What's that mean? They won't develop better models until the score gets higher?

jonny_eh 2y ago
The opposite
willy_k 2y ago
If they’re only deploying models that score lower, I would guess that they don’t want to risk it / bother trying to bring the highest scoring ones down.

freedomben 2y ago

Direct link to the report: https://cdn.openai.com/o1-system-card-20241205.pdf https://cdn.openai.com/o1-system-card-20241205.pdf

jsheard 2y ago

Do they still threaten to terminate your account if they think you're trying to introspect its hidden chain-of-thought process?

visarga 2y ago
A few days ago the QwQ-32B model was released, it uses the same kind of reasoning style. So I took one sample and reverse engineered the prompt with Sonnet 3.5. Now I can just paste this prompt into any LLM. It's all about expressing doubt, double checking and backtracking on itself. I am kind of fond of this response style, it seems more genuine and openended. https://pastebin.com/raw/5AVRZsJg https://pastebin.com/raw/5AVRZsJg
- marviel 2y ago
  Thanks, I love this
- AlfredBarnes 2y ago
  Thank you for doing that work, and even more for sharing it. I will have to try this out.
- thegabriele 2y ago
  I tried this with LeChat (mistral) and ChatGPT 3.5 (free) and they start to respond to "something" following the style but... without any question asked.
- rsync 2y ago
  An aside ... Isn't it wonderful that, after all of these years, the pastebin "primitive" is still available and usable ... One could have needed pastebin, used it, then spent a decade not needing it, then returned for an identical repeat use. The longevity alone is of tremendous value.
- SirYandi 2y ago
  And then once the answer is found an additional prompt is given to tidy up and present the solution clearly?

wyldfire 2y ago

> above is a 300-line chunk ... deadlocks every few hundred runs Wow, if this kind of thing is successful it feels like there's much less need for static checkers. I mean -- not no need for them, just less need for continued development of new checkers. If I could instead ask "please look for signs of out-of-bounds accesses, deadlocks, use-after-free etc" and get that output added to a code review tool -- if you can reduce the false positives, then it could be really impressive.

therein 2y ago
This mentality is so weird to me. The desire to throw a black box at a problem just strikes me as laziness. What you're saying is basically wow if we had a perfect magic programmer in a box as a service that would be so revolutionary; we could reduce the need for static checkers. It is a large language model, trained on arbitrary input data. And you're saying let's take this statistical approach and have it replace purpose made algorithms. Let's get rid of motion tracking and rotoscoping capabilities in Adobe After Effects. Generative AI seems to handle it fine. Who needs to create 3D models when you can just describe what you want and then AI just imagines it? Hey AI, look at this code, now generate it without my memory leaks and deadlocks and use-after-free? People who thought about these problems mindfully and devised systematic approaches to solving them must be spinning in their graves.
- intelVISA 2y ago
  I think the unaccountability of said magic box is the true allure for corps. It's the main reason they desperately want it to be turnkey for code - they'd be willing to flatten most office jobs as we know them today en route to this perfect, unaccountable, money printer.
- wyldfire 2y ago
  > It is a large language model, trained on arbitrary input data. Is it? For all I know they gave it specific instances of bugs like "int *foo() { int i; return &i; }" and told it "this is a defect where we've returned a pointer to a deallocated stack entry - it could cause cause stack corruption or some other unpredictable program behavior." Even if OpenAI _hasn't_ done that, someone certainly can -- and should! > Who needs to create 3D models I specifically pulled back from "no static checkers" because some folks might tend to see things as all-or-nothing. We choose to invest our time in new developer tools all the time, and if AI can do as good or better maybe we don't need to chip-chip-chip away at defects with new static checkers. Maybe our time is better spent working on some dynamic analysis tool, to find the bugs that the AI can't easily uncover. > now generate it without my memory leaks ... People who thought about these problems mindfully I think of myself who devises systematic approaches to problems. And I get those approaches wrong despite that. I really love the technology that has been developed over the past couple of decades to help me find my bugs: sanitizers, warnings, and OS, ISA features to detect bugs. This strikes me as no different from that other technology and I see no reason not to embrace it. Let me ask you this: how do you feel about refcounting or other kinds of GC? Huge drawbacks make them unusable for some problems. But for tons of problem domains, they're perfect! Do you think that GC has made developers worse? IMO it's lowered the bar for correct programs and that's ideal.

deleted 2y ago

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famouswaffles 2y ago

They released the full o1 today as well as a new subscription plan as part of their "ship-mas" starting today where there will be a new launch or demo every day for the next 12 business days.

paxys 2y ago
I bet their engineers are loving all these new launches right before the holidays.
- newfocogi 2y ago
  I prefer launches before holidays to launches after holidays

demirbey05 2y ago

Is there anyone can explain that why o1-preview benchmarks mostly is better than o1 ?

avian 2y ago

The section on regurgitation is three whole statements and basically boils down to "the model refuses when asked to regurgitate training data". This doesn't inspire confidence that the model isn't spitting out literal copies of the text in its training set while claiming it is of its own making.

visarga 2y ago
All training data? Even public domain and open source?

cluckindan 2y ago

Soon it will be running a front company where people are tasked with receiving base64 printouts and typing them back into a computer.

Oras 2y ago

I hope it's not an Apple moment of pushing product pricing up, which others will follow if successful.

demarq 2y ago

[flagged]

dang 2y ago
Can you please not post low-quality comments like this to HN? It's not what this site is for, and destroys what it is for. You may not owe Sam Altman or chatbots better, but you owe this community better if you're participating in it. If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and taking the intended spirit of the site more to heart, we'd be grateful.

Bjorkbat 2y ago

I'm really curious to see how this pricing plays out. I constantly hear on Twitter how certain influencers would be more than willing to pay more than $20/month for unlimited access to the best models from OpenAI / Anthropic. Well, now here's a $200/month unlimited plan. Is it worth that much and to how many people?

nichochar 2y ago

I have a masters degree in math/physics, and 10+ years of being a SWE in strong tech companies. I have come to rely on these models (Claude > oai tho) daily. It is insane how helpful it is, it can answer some questions at phd level, most questions at a basic level. It can write code better than most devs I know when prompted correctly... I'm not saying its AGI, but diminishing it to a simple "chat bot" seems foolish to me. It's at least worth studying, and we should be happy they care rather than just ship it?

ernesto95 2y ago
Interesting that the results can be so different for different people. I have yet to get a single good response (in my research area) for anything slightly more complicated than what a quick google search would reveal. I agree that it’s great for generating quick functioning code though.
- shadowmanif 2y ago
  I think the human variable is that you need to know enough to be able to ask the right questions about a subject while not knowing enough about the subject to learn something from the answers. Because of this, I would assume it is better for people who have interest with more breadth than depth and less impressive to those who have interest that are narrow but very deep. It seems obvious to me the polymath gains much more from language models than the single minded subject expert trying to dig the deepest hole. Also, the single minded subject expert is randomly at the mercy of what is in the training data much more in a way than the polymath when all the use is summed up.
- planb 2y ago
  > I have yet to get a single good response (in my research area) for anything slightly more complicated than what a quick google search would reveal. Even then, with search enabled it's ways quicker than a "quick" google search and you don't have to manually skip all the blog-spam.
  - getnormality 2y ago

deleted 2y ago

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unglaublich 2y ago

Occupational therapy for the AI safety folks.

leumon 2y ago

While it now can read an analog clock from an image (even with seconds), on some images it still doesn't work https://i.imgur.com/M2JouZs.png https://i.imgur.com/M2JouZs.png

indiantinker 2y ago

Such oversimplification, much wow.

white_beach 2y ago

[flagged]

lxgr 2y ago

What actually is a "system card"? When I hear the term, I'd expect something akin to the "nutrition facts" infobox for food, or maybe the fee sheet for a credit card, i.e. a concise and importantly standardized format that allows comparison of instances of a given class. Searching for a definition yields almost no results. Meta has possibly introduced them [1], but even there I see no "card", but a blog post. OpenAI's is a LaTeX-typeset PDF spanning several pages of largely text and seems to be an entirely custom thing too, also not exactly something I'd call a card. [1] https://ai.meta.com/blog/system-cards-a-new-resource-for-understanding-how-ai-systems-work/ https://ai.meta.com/blog/system-cards-a-new-resource-for-und...

xg15 2y ago
More generally, who introduced that concept of "cards" for ML models, datasets, etc? I saw it first when Huggingface got traction and at some point it seemed to have become some sort of de-facto standard. Was it an OpenAI or Huggingface thing?
- nighthawk454 2y ago
  Presumably it's a spin off of Google's 'Model Card' from a few years back https://modelcards.withgoogle.com/about https://modelcards.withgoogle.com/about
  - xg15 2y ago
    Ah, wasn't aware it was from Google. Thanks!
Imnimo 2y ago
To my knowledge, this is the origin of model cards: https://arxiv.org/abs/1810.03993 https://arxiv.org/abs/1810.03993 However, often the things we get from companies do not look very much like what was described in this paper. So it's fair to question if they're even the same thing.
- lxgr 2y ago

ValentinA23 2y ago

Are there models with high autonomy around ? I want my LLM to tell me >wow wow wow buddy, slow down, run this code in a terminal, and paste the result here, this will allow me to get an overview of your code base

airstrike 2y ago
I've had Claude suggest adding some print statements and letting it know the results so it can better understand what's going on

killingtime74 2y ago

Did anyone else think CBRN = Chemical, biological, radiological, and nuclear

Vecr 2y ago
It is. What's your question? I think all model makers are at least strongly encouraged to get their models tested for ability to help terrorists with weapons of mass destruction (CBRN weapons included). The US and UK governments care about that sort of thing.

eichi 2y ago

For some tasks, scores are significantly affected by subjects and prompts used in the tests. I don't think these are valid figures while it is good to try to evaluate them. Overall, it it a good report.

djaouen 2y ago

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W0I9gx_8XHM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W0I9gx_8XHM

codr7 2y ago

My favorite AI future hint so far was this guy who was pretty mean to one of them (forget which), and posted about it. Now the other AI's are reading his posts and not liking him very much as a result. So our online presence is beginning to matter in weird ways. And I feel like the discussion about them being sentient is pretty much over, because they obviously are, in their own weird way. Second runner was when they tried to teach one of them to allocate its own funds/resources on AWS. We're so going to regret playing with fire like this. The question few were asking when watching The Matrix is what made the machines hate humans so much. I'm pretty sure they understand by now (in their own weird way) how we view them and what they can expect from us moving forward.