10 ms·

The Porsche Macan EV is being recalled because its headlights are too bright

132 points by josephcsible 2y ago

josephcsible 2y ago
This sentence stood out to me: > Due to a software data set error, the affected vehicles were programmed from the factory after the Economic Commission for Europe (ECE) specs, whereas U.S.-spec vehicles need to conform to the requirements of the Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard (FMVSS). Presumably, if there were a way for the headlights to comply with both US and EU regulations, they'd just have them be that way everywhere, rather than having to deal with multiple configurations at all. So are the US and EU both saying that each other's way is wrong and too dangerous?
- echoangle 2y ago
  Since the brightness seems to be the issue, the only way I his makes sense to me is: The US limits the brightness to X, the EU limits the brightness to Y, and Y > X. Porsche could just make every car globally use X, but they’re a luxury brand so they probably try to use Y where they can, even if it is a bit of work to differentiate between markets.
  - tomatotomato37 2y ago
    Porsche is also based in the EU so starting with a design that meets EU specs and then adjusting export models as needed is probably their procedure anyway
  - Symbiote 2y ago
    It's a significant difference. I doubt any manufacturer would want to limit their European vehicles to the American maximum: > European lighting standards (UNECE) allow over two times the light output from high beam headlight systems as compared to the U.S. (Broertjes, 2018). U.S. compliant systems allow a vehicle maximum of 150,000 candela while European compliant systems allow a vehicle maximum of 430,000 candela (Official Journal of the European Union, 2018). This provides for gains in sight distance, but also increases the potential for glare to affect oncoming and preceding traffic when high beams are not dimmed. And > 3. European specification systems consistently provided more roadway lighting when an oncoming vehicle was approaching, or a preceding vehicle was close. > a. Based on static target illumination data, the increase in roadway lighting could be as much as 86 percent (comparison of average European specification high beam to U.S. specification low beam). https://www.aaa.com/AAA/common/AAR/files/ResearchReportEuroSpecvsUSHeadlamps.pdf https://www.aaa.com/AAA/common/AAR/files/ResearchReportEuroS... (scroll to at least page 19-20 for illuminating illustrations).
    - maxerickson 2y ago
      The low beams on newer US cars are already blinding. Do people in the EU consistently behave politely and turn them off when appropriate?
      - Symbiote 2y ago
        The study is comparing "premium" headlights, which in the USA auto-lower for oncoming traffic, and in Europe auto-shade just that vehicle but leave the rest of the road fully illuminated. I don't have enough driving experience between the two countries to compare driver behaviour.
      - pmontra 2y ago
        People don't turn off low beams at night, why should they? They turn off high beams even if everybody forgets them on sometimes but that's inevitable. Low beams are getting too bright. I never turned my rear mirror into the anti glare position so often as in the last couple of years.
        maxerickson 2y ago
        I'm not sure why you'd bother trying to converse with me if you thought I was asking about people turning off low beams at night. Plenty of people turn on their high beams and don't bother to manage them. I guess automatic dimming systems should help with that. Looking a bit, they don't necessarily default to on in US vehicles, which is likely to minimize the benefit.
        SoftTalker 2y ago
        The auto-dim systems don't always work, either. My mother-in-law's Toyota has this feature, and it seems to work when it wants to.
        trinix912 2y ago
        Same with a 2020 Honda Civic. Those auto-dim headlights shut themselves off in a timely manner about 50% of the time.
  - Kon-Peki 2y ago
    This recall is for the high-beams. And yes, the EU allows brighter high-beams than the US. This seems to be the extent of the recall. But there are other differences between the EU and US. For example, on what the headlights are illuminating. US headlights shine more light off to the right of the vehicle than EU and I think it is due to the assumption that roadside signs are more often lit via headlights/refection in the US vs sign-mounted lighting in the EU. I think most people agree that EU regulations allow for significantly better headlights than US regulations allow. But those better headlights must be paired with an expensive adaptive system or they become terribly dangerous. If you compare "cheap car" headlights in the US vs EU they are probably very similar in performance.
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
  - thephyber 2y ago
    Brightness of two headlights is not a single floating point number. There are regulations governing the spread/angle, the minimum brightness, the maximum brightness, how much an object at X distance is illuminated, whether the angle of the beams is too bright in the vision of oncoming drivers, etc.
    - mistercheph 2y ago
      and most manufacturers are guilty of dieselgate style skirting of regulations while upping the ante in the war to create the brightest most blinding headlight
- potato3732842 2y ago
  >So are the US and EU both saying that each other's way is wrong and too dangerous? Real life disagreements on minor technicalities between competing bureaucracies are not zero sum or conducted in breathless hand wringing internet rhetoric. It's more like a disagreement on a FOSS mailing list.
  - groos 2y ago
    I believe EU allows directionally controllable projector headlights (my description, I don't know the official name). These can be brighter because they can be directed away from oncoming traffic. The US, in contrast, is lagging in approving this technology and puts an absolute limit on the brightness.
  - josephcsible 2y ago
    I'm not surprised there's a disagreement. I'm surprised the disagreement is both sides saying "our way is safer", rather than it being one side saying "this safety benefit isn't worth it" and the other saying "yes it is".
    - kevin_thibedeau 2y ago
      The problem isn't the disagreement in specifications. It's the poor German quality control that doesn't prevent these mistakes from happening. This wasn't a significant problem when the parts were physically different for different markets and the assembly line would ensure the wrong parts weren't present.
    - rsynnott 2y ago
      > I'm surprised the disagreement is both sides saying "our way is safer" That's somewhat common for US/EU safety disagreements. Here's the canonical example, from back when the TTIP was still seriously being considered: https://www.forbes.com/sites/nadiaarumugam/2012/10/25/why-american-eggs-would-be-illegal-in-a-british-supermarket-and-vice-versa/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/nadiaarumugam/2012/10/25/why-am...
- thephyber 2y ago
  There are some notable value judgements that are different between US and EU regulations. I remember reading that the US car safety rules generally assume that the people in the car do not follow the rules, whereas EU regulations assume they follow the law and use seatbelts. US crash safety tests don’t care about the damage the car does to pedestrians, but EU regulations do factor that in. https://www.npr.org/2015/10/16/449090584/why-arent-auto-safety-standards-universal https://www.npr.org/2015/10/16/449090584/why-arent-auto-safe...
  - KK7NIL 2y ago
    > US car safety rules generally assume that the people in the car do not follow the rules > US crash safety tests don’t care about the damage the car does to pedestrians As a EU citizen living in the US, this makes perfect sense. The quality of driving here is far lower, I often see vehicles without plates or temp tags and it's not unusual to hear about uninsured drivers hitting people. It's ironic that such a car centric country naturally ends up with terrible drivers because of the low barrier to entry.
    - thephyber 2y ago
      IMHO, there’s diminishing returns in regulations that try to protect someone who actively doesn’t want to protect themselves. It just adds extra cost (R&D, complexity of design/manufacturing, different parts for different jurisdictions, different parts SKUs to stock, etc). The upside? It probably saves the lives of some people so reckless they shouldn’t be driving.
      - ilbeeper 2y ago
        And the pedestrians?
        deleted 2y ago
        [deleted]
        lupusreal 2y ago
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- abeppu 2y ago
  But also, since it's a software-addressable issue, and because this process is likely such a headache, I wonder if in a couple of years they'll have a version that picks its headlight configuration based on your location. You'll drive over a border at night and do a slight double-take as your lights change their beam width or something.
- onion2k 2y ago
  Presumably, if there were a way for the headlights to comply with both US and EU regulations, they'd just have them be that way everywhere... Unless someone in the marketing department has determined that headlight brightness is a selling point for 0.001% of customers, in which case they'd configure them to the maximum allowed in the region.
- ErigmolCt 2y ago
  Ideally, a universal standard that balances both approaches would be the safest way forward
- egorfine 2y ago
  Bear in mind that matrix lights are the norm in EU on high end cars while in US they are prohibited. I bet that explains the brightness: you can have overly bright lights if they are matrix while obviously that would be detrimental in regular headlights.
  - ssl-3 2y ago
    Things like matrix lights used to be prohibited on new cars in the US. This has subsequently changed: https://www.nhtsa.gov/press-releases/nhtsa-allow-adaptive-driving-beam-headlights-new-vehicles-improving-safety-drivers https://www.nhtsa.gov/press-releases/nhtsa-allow-adaptive-dr...
    - egorfine 2y ago
      Oh, that's good news! (Why do I have a feeling that all the ways I can come up with to compliment the US for this achievement sound like irony?)
      - ssl-3 2y ago
        It's kind of meh news at this point. There's a ton of blinding vehicles on the road in the States, and it is getting worse at an accelerated rate, and even if fancy matrix-ey headlights became the norm it will take a Very Long Time for the old stuff to get cycled out. Up next, let me tell you about that time that we held onto analog AMPS cell phones for years longer than any developed country that I know if, and how when we did finally begin to transition to something digital we made sure that we failed to standardize on any one format and made all of them as incompatible with things like European GSM as we could.
        egorfine 2y ago
        Oh yeah, tell me about it. > held onto analog AMPS cell *cough* faxes, anyone? *cough*
tradertef 2y ago
There are too many cars with this problem. Especially high trucks and SUVs whose beams blinds drivers in front of them..
- kelseyfrog 2y ago
  I keep a hand mirror for just this case. Most passengers are more than eager to reflect it back and it almost always solves the problem.
  - ASalazarMX 2y ago
    Feedback at its finest.
  - Sohcahtoa82 2y ago
    Another option, if the headlights are at eye level, is to move the rear-view mirror so that you see the passenger seat headrest. That makes it the perfect angle to make their headlights reflect right back at them.
    - JTyQZSnP3cQGa8B 2y ago
      Is it because of the dual mirror system? Do you have to actually lower the mirror? Asking for a friend who is blinded daily by these idiots.
      - 01HNNWZ0MV43FF 2y ago
        It's because that will square up the mirror. From a top down view, the mirror will be perpendicular to the light rays
  - everdrive 2y ago
    Solas tape is another potential option.
- alephxyz 2y ago
  Adaptive driving / glare-free lighting is legal in the US and Canada now and is supposed to reduce that problem
tester756 2y ago
In general new cars have annoying lightings in compare to old cars
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- kavalg 2y ago
  I guess it is the LED to blame. Many small bright spots instead of a bigger, but less bright single light source
mitjam 2y ago
High beams are becoming some kind of weapon here in the EU. You have red spots and lines for some time when you happen to encounter a Porsche SUV heading your way angrily flashing at the one in front of them. What‘s next? Lasers? They are just too powerful.
- Ylpertnodi 2y ago
  EU? Switzerland being the worst! Related: 1) indicators ( eu flashing yellow ones) are getting smaller: ok at night, but during the day...very hard to see. I prefer the US red brake/ blinker to these tiny mf's. *2 Animated (EU only?) yellow indicators. The transition between each segment (usually five?) is always too slow, and very distracting. I prefer the US, and very terrible, blinky-brake lights to these disco-on-xanax horrors. 3. Why can’t there be a sign for 'zippering' where traffic merges? 4 - Why can’t people just zipper-in anyway?
  - Wonkey 2y ago
    Regarding point 3. Different countries we have slightly different signs and road markings but signs for merging is a thing. Example from Denmark: https://koerekort--guiden-dk.translate.goog/sammenfletning/?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=no&_x_tr_pto=wapp https://koerekort--guiden-dk.translate.goog/sammenfletning/?...
  - trinix912 2y ago
    > Why can’t people just zipper-in anyway? Because people still think they're somehow going to arrive 30min faster by not merging one-by-one, ignoring the fact that by not letting others in they're actively slowing all other traffic down. Then have all other nervous drivers looking for the first opportunity to cut someone off because they're not going to be able to merge otherwise and you end up with all those crashes near the ends of merge lanes. It's a driving culture issue, varies by country.
  - rlv-dan 2y ago
    > Animated yellow indicators [are] very distracting Completely agree. If I buy a new car, I will ask if it is possible to turn these off out of respect for other drivers!
hyeonwho4 2y ago
Was buying a new car headlight last year and the sales associate pointed me to replace my halogen bulbs with new (more expensive) LED "fog lights", but they were clearly labelled "not legal for use on public roads". I wonder how many people get upsold on headlights which are actually illegally bright and never notice.
- jeffbee 2y ago
  It's not only that they are bright, but also that halogen optics aren't appropriate for the emission pattern of LEDs.
  - k4rli 2y ago
    That's not correct. Projector headlights can still be used with LEDs and pattern will be correct. Reflector units aren't compatible. Halogen->LED like Halogen->Xenon isn't allowed in Europe if a car doesn't have automatic levelling and headlight washers.
  - gambiting 2y ago
    OSRAM has now made an LED retrofit kit for halogen reflectors that is approved and road legal everywhere in the EU - it's just very expensive for the time being, I'd have a hard time justifying it. https://www.osram.com/ecat/NIGHT%20BREAKER%20H4-LED-LED%20high%20and%20low%20beam%20lamps%20(street%20legal)-Car%20lighting-Automotive/com/en/GPS01_3695161/ZMP_4063288/ https://www.osram.com/ecat/NIGHT%20BREAKER%20H4-LED-LED%20hi...
    - yourusername 2y ago
      For me the big advantage of LED over Halogen is the service life. Back when i had Halogens i had to switch bulbs at least once a year, depending on your car you may have to go to a garage to have it done. 130 euro for a set of LED retrofit bulbs would be worth it just to avoid that hassle.
    - jq-r 2y ago
      Well not everywhere in Europe. I have Philips version of LED bulbs which replaced my halogen lights. They are great, and they have the same beam form so they don't blind anyone. At the same time, they wanted to fail me on the annual inspection because "a car which came with halogen lights cannot have LED lights". Next time I'll put halogens just for the inspection. Completely moronic laws.
HPsquared 2y ago
The most annoying thing for me is the "blue fringe" on a lot of modern headlights that use lenses to refract and focus the light. These lenses aren't the best and have chromatic aberration, resulting in a fringe of blue light at the top of the beam. Result: people see flashing blue(-ish) light in their rear view mirror. Not a good thing, very distracting!
- globular-toast 2y ago
  I had this the worst the other day. A car was following me and I kept thinking there was an emergency vehicle behind because I could see the blue fringe. The worst thing about all these lights is they aren't static. For a start I can see the LEDs flickering, presumably due to PWM. Why a fully DC circuit that doesn't even dim the bulbs needs to use PWM is beyond me. But the worst is their "clever" auto levelling and dipping etc. It just looks like the light is constantly in flux which is really distracting and annoying.
  - smileysteve 2y ago
    Xenon bulbs run with an ac inverter
    - globular-toast 2y ago
      Interesting. I didn't know that. Looking around online it seems they run at a frequency around 250-300Hz which may be noticeable. I notice it more when lights are far away and in my peripheral vision. I assumed they were LEDs because I've definitely noticed it with LEDs but I guess they could be xenons too.
      - smileysteve 2y ago
        There's also noise from alternators, which are effectively an ac generator, but have a rectifier and diode that cut it at 12v and DC.
danielodievich 2y ago
The occupational hazard of driving a really low to the ground Mini is that every new car with Bright-Ass-Lights (our family name for them) heading towards me is a punch into my eyeball. Fortunately I can flip the rear-view prism mirror to deal with similar vehicles behind me. The new trucks - raptors and f-150 - are particularly obnoxious, they are 2x my height and terrifying.
colanderman 2y ago
I passionately loathe Porsche headlights in general. The particular pattern of 4 very bright dots constantly tricks my eyes into thinking they are focusing incorrectly which is distracting and borderline painful. The Macan EV's pattern of lines rather than dots actually _alleviates_ this problem for me so I'm somewhat disappointed it's _this_ Porsche and not every other one on the road whose headlights are being replaced.
- Reason077 2y ago
  The headlights aren't being replaced, it's just a software fix. Still a bit of a fail for Porsche if a software fix requires a dealer visit and can't be deployed over-the-air, though.
__mharrison__ 2y ago
Perhaps it's my old age but I feel like either folks drive around with their brights on or new cars have lights that are way too bright.
- mistercheph 2y ago
  It's real, and manufacturers are deliberately skirting US headlight brightness regulations
OptionOfT 2y ago
Always interesting about how people get angry about headlights in the USA. Being from Europe, the European ones are superior. They go further and they are brighter, and have a different cut-off: ECE vs DOT: https://i.ibb.co/ryf8W0w/dotece.jpg https://i.ibb.co/ryf8W0w/dotece.jpg When I lived in Europe (Belgium) every year the beam height was checked on my car. That way I wouldn't blind people when driving behind them. Here in there US there are no such things, yet cars often enough get headlights replaced which aren't adjusted afterwards. Or people install a lift-kit which hasn't been taken into account when designing the vehicle. Now I wonder if the Macan has different lights in the US vs ROW, as the cut-off isn't something that is easily changeable, and it would massively increase the cost for something that is never activated. But having the same bulbs makes sense. That said, I looked into replacing the headlights on mine, but then you end up with a Frankenstein's monster car, as parts of it are US coded, and parts EU. I did get EU mirrors.
- lifestyleguru 2y ago
  > European ones are superior. No they aren't. Driving on the roads in continental Europe I see it all. LED lights with blue glare, road beams with strength of high beams, adaptive strobing LED/laser headlights, adaptive LED/laser headlights scanning surroundings with top-down bright horizontal line, badly adjusted headlights directed and the eyesight level. Includes brand new unmodified cars.
- trinix912 2y ago
  > Being from Europe, the European ones are superior. They go further and they are brighter Driving in Europe, I get constantly blinded by french cars and their headlights. Those headlights are just way too bright, combined with shitty engineering. The automatic ones don't turn off fast enough. Then you have people blinking at approaching cars to trigger that sensor. Many drivers don't bother manually turning them off, on some cars the headlights are still controlled by a rotary switch that requires you to take your hands off the steering wheel, while on others the auto-headlights aren't easy to re-enable if you had to manually turn them off once so people don't bother turning them off at all.
chrisbrandow 2y ago
I’m so freaking sick of tall cars/trucks with LED beams that are so bright.
surfingdino 2y ago
How odd. I used to own a car that had an easily accessible setting adjusting lights to the EU or UK settings. Surely they ought to be a similar setting in Porsches?
- lifestyleguru 2y ago
  The very essence and point of some brands is being a selfish asshole.
- arkh 2y ago
  > setting adjusting lights to the EU or UK settings Many people on the continent need to learn about this. Lot of them are lighting up the opposite lane like if it was the side of the road instead.
  - jeroenhd 2y ago
    I've seen the same thing happen with UK cars here. I don't think most drivers even realise that their headlights aren't uniformly lighting up the road in front of them. IMO places where people switch what side of the road people drive on (ferries, tunnels, etc.) should put up warnings and hand out fines to people with reversed lights. For cars that don't have digitally adjustable lights, I'm sure there will be money making opportunities for garages near these places where the lights can be physically adjusted.
    - surfingdino 2y ago
      You can buy special stickers that modify light beams. Adjusting lights is actually mandatory and not doing so can result in a ticket. My old car had a setting for it in the main menu. I used it every time I was driving to and from France/UK.
- Hamuko 2y ago
  I don't see why American Porsches would need such an option? Where is the closest left-hand traffic country relative to the US and how feasible is it to get your car there?
mistercheph 2y ago
Regulators asleep at the wheel while drivers and manufacturers are locked in an eye melting arms race to blind everyone else on the road
pluc 2y ago
I have entirely stopped driving at night because of this. When I do, I drive with my high beams on and sunglasses. If you're gonna be selfish so that you can see 200 meters in front of you, well so can I.
- pants2 2y ago
  You're literally the type of selfish person you're complaining about.
  - pluc 2y ago
    If you can't beat em join em
dmje 2y ago
I’m mainly glad to see that this is a recognised problem and not just another thing that I’m noticing more as I get into my 50s
foundart 2y ago
Related: https://www.theringer.com/2024/12/03/tech/headlight-brightness-cars-accidents https://www.theringer.com/2024/12/03/tech/headlight-brightne...
- KennyBlanken 2y ago
  Ah yes, computer programmers on reddit doing what they do best: thinking that they're so very smart (because they're programmers) and thus more qualified than professionals in their own fields. Can't fool them! They're not one of those sheeple! > “First, I’d like to teach you some words,” How has his brain not imploded from the fatal levels of condescension? He thought a writer wouldn't know what "obfuscation" means? Also: that is a magazine about football, and an article written by someone who writes about culture items like Taylor Swift. It's not "reporting." It's (at best) commentary. Completely missing: any sources from people who, you know, actually know what the hell they're talking about. For example, someone who knows what the hell they're talking about could point out that the flood of photos from digital cameras in that subreddit, used as "proof", are from digital cameras which have barely a few f-stops of dynamic range, whereas the human eye has thirty. The very best digital SLRs in the world have a dynamic range of around 14 stops.
martinpw 2y ago
A petition to sign, for those in the US: https://chng.it/kZbGRfkzMY https://chng.it/kZbGRfkzMY
- amanaplanacanal 2y ago
  Do these petitions actually do anything? I've always assumed they are a feel good measure that accomplished nothing.
crnkofe 2y ago
Post-Corona cars are all much brighter. Its gotten so bad that I'm frequently left wondering if people are driving with high beams or just regular new-age lights. Got to wait to see if the person on the other side drops the lights to be sure. SUVs in particular are bad especially during acceleration which points the lights higher and on inclined road. I also regularly "switch" rear-view mirror to dim mode otherwise I'm literally 3-way blinded also from side mirrors. I didn't do any of these things regularly 5y ago. I'm still wondering if this is just automotive industry incompetence of making safe vehicles or an "incentive" to buy a SUV yourself so you don't get blinded all the time.
- ljf 2y ago
  Here in the UK I can't say that we have the same issue - BUT we have far fewer SUVs and lights are regulated far more. You'll fail your yearly MOT (car roadworthiness test) if you have lights that are too bright or misaligned, and I have seen people pulled over in London for having non-standard/too bright lights. We have a wattage maximum for headlights too. I am under the impression that roadworthiness test and regulations are very different in the states - is that the case?
  - arethuza 2y ago
    I live in a rural area of Scotland and I don't really have a problem with headlights - 99.9% of drivers dip their full beams when they are aware of you. Now if we could only get people to indicate correctly on roundabouts.... - that's a far bigger peeve of mine than headlights!
  - bsmithers 2y ago
    Really? I think we have exactly the same problem in the UK. Granted, my eyes are more susceptible post laser surgery, but headlights are definitely getting brighter and higher as the years go by.
  - DrBazza 2y ago
    It certainly seems like headlights are far brighter in the UK right now, given that they're all LEDs. Of course it could just be confirmation bias, as I'm getting older and I suppose my eyes gradually deteriorate. I do a lot of night time driving and oncoming traffic is definitely brighter, for me at least, than 20 years ago. Then there's the fact that old headlights were one bulb, and the mirrored surface behind them was simpler. Another problem is white light is harsh, and the old incandescent bulbs had a yellow/off white tinge which is easier (the redder the light, the less likely it is to destroy your night vision).
ErigmolCt 2y ago
At least it's a relatively easy fix, though owners still have to make the trip to a service center
ngcc_hk 2y ago
My little Toyota did dim the light or just lower the light … and hence it is better. You need the high beam all the time in uk roads as they mostly do not have road lights. But keep in switch on and off in my old cars are hard. But those high beam can kill me one day no doubt. Too many close call and hence the little Toyota i got I feel comfortable to use the high beam all the time.
gortok 2y ago
The default 'height' of the Tesla Model Y headlights make it appear to be bright lights by default. I live in the DC metro area, and buses (who are typically folks that drive a lot) would constantly flash me to let me know they thought my brights were on. You can go into the car's settings and lower the headlights, but because of where it is by default, it presents a dangerous situation for other cars. How many non-tech folks would know to even search for this option? https://service.tesla.com/docs/Model3/ServiceManual/en-us/GUID-29CF03C8-9755-42C2-B45B-6B61900806B0.html https://service.tesla.com/docs/Model3/ServiceManual/en-us/GU...
- mbreese 2y ago
  I had to do the same with my 3 when I got it years back. Now people also get confused when I have my fog lights on (but that’s rare given how annoying difficult it is to find the setting on a touchscreen while driving). Actually calibrating the lights angle should be done at the factory (or prior to delivery), but mine were definitely too high. But I think in general (and with other cars too), the problem isn’t the brightness of lights, but their angle. Bit even with my lights lowered, if I’m at a stop light that is on a slight hill, that still can cause the angle of my lights to appear to someone on the other side as too bright.
nottorp 2y ago
Only the Macan? They should recall about 1/4 of new cars if we're to believe what I see when night driving...
sans_souse 2y ago
In the mean time, whilst we wait for our ancient laws to catch up to the advent of the LED headlight, it would be really cool if everyone could find that little bit logic and intuition in themselves to do their best to adapt something like this, as their ~"etiquette"~ for night driving; AUTO HI-BEAMS: OFF (always OFF) HI-BEAMS ON: ONLY when there are no cars in front of you APPROACHING BRIGHT HEADLIGHTS: Short 2x burst. Resist going further than this, just glance off to the passsenger-side of your windshield and avoid looking directly at the lights, deep in thought... IF you are FLASHED by oncoming traffic, at least CHECK (the indicator on your dash will be a very bright BLUE) - IF they are ON then TURN THEM OFF. IF they are off THEN give a courtesy SHORT 1-2x flash. IF the car(s) IN FRONT of you seem to be excessively braking or flashing their HI-BEAMS seemingly at random - CHECK YOURS! Courtesy flash not recommended so much here. Cars BEHIND you with BRIGHT LIGHTS? Brake tap might or might not help, I also target large traffic signs with some short rapid bursts to hopefully get their attention. At some point, doing nothing becomes the best strategy. Some people really do love antagonizing. Stay focused when you're driving, you should be striving to do it "like a pro" and with respect for others. /psa p.s. that botton in your light control cluster that you don't know what it is? Leave it off please. Those are your Tow-lamps and they make your taillights extremely bright.
rsynnott 2y ago
The article also contains the bizarre detail that the petrol version of this is available in the US, but not the EU... due to _cybersecurity_ regulations. Disappointingly little detail is given on just what the issue is in the linked article... https://www.motor1.com/news/706105/porsche-continuing-gas-macan-sales/ https://www.motor1.com/news/706105/porsche-continuing-gas-ma...
cies 2y ago
It's a race: brighter lights and tainted glass. Looks really cool. Give privacy to the driver of such vehicle, while allowing them to see the road. Good for them. But other road users: bikes, pedestrians, old car drivers... They suffer. The only way to improve your situation: also buy a new car with bright lights and tainted glass.
- lifestyleguru 2y ago
  The more tinted your windows are the brighter headlights you need, easy! You can also wear sunglasses at all times which allows for even brighter headlights. Absolute pro tip - cover the windows externally with reflective foil to return any light anyone will dare to beam at your car.
deskr 2y ago
This is a general problem in the UK: https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2024/apr/02/uk-government-review-headlight-glare-drivers-complaints https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2024/apr/02/uk-governmen...
teeray 2y ago
It would be nice to have “blue light cameras” that automatically ticketed people for this, since cops seem uninterested in enforcing it.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

132 points by josephcsible 2y ago

This sentence stood out to me: > Due to a software data set error, the affected vehicles were programmed from the factory after the Economic Commission for Europe (ECE) specs, whereas U.S.-spec vehicles need to conform to the requirements of the Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard (FMVSS). Presumably, if there were a way for the headlights to comply with both US and EU regulations, they'd just have them be that way everywhere, rather than having to deal with multiple configurations at all. So are the US and EU both saying that each other's way is wrong and too dangerous?

echoangle 2y ago
Since the brightness seems to be the issue, the only way I his makes sense to me is: The US limits the brightness to X, the EU limits the brightness to Y, and Y > X. Porsche could just make every car globally use X, but they’re a luxury brand so they probably try to use Y where they can, even if it is a bit of work to differentiate between markets.
- tomatotomato37 2y ago
  Porsche is also based in the EU so starting with a design that meets EU specs and then adjusting export models as needed is probably their procedure anyway
- Symbiote 2y ago
  It's a significant difference. I doubt any manufacturer would want to limit their European vehicles to the American maximum: > European lighting standards (UNECE) allow over two times the light output from high beam headlight systems as compared to the U.S. (Broertjes, 2018). U.S. compliant systems allow a vehicle maximum of 150,000 candela while European compliant systems allow a vehicle maximum of 430,000 candela (Official Journal of the European Union, 2018). This provides for gains in sight distance, but also increases the potential for glare to affect oncoming and preceding traffic when high beams are not dimmed. And > 3. European specification systems consistently provided more roadway lighting when an oncoming vehicle was approaching, or a preceding vehicle was close. > a. Based on static target illumination data, the increase in roadway lighting could be as much as 86 percent (comparison of average European specification high beam to U.S. specification low beam). https://www.aaa.com/AAA/common/AAR/files/ResearchReportEuroSpecvsUSHeadlamps.pdf https://www.aaa.com/AAA/common/AAR/files/ResearchReportEuroS... (scroll to at least page 19-20 for illuminating illustrations).
  - maxerickson 2y ago
    The low beams on newer US cars are already blinding. Do people in the EU consistently behave politely and turn them off when appropriate?
    - Symbiote 2y ago
      The study is comparing "premium" headlights, which in the USA auto-lower for oncoming traffic, and in Europe auto-shade just that vehicle but leave the rest of the road fully illuminated. I don't have enough driving experience between the two countries to compare driver behaviour.
    - pmontra 2y ago
      People don't turn off low beams at night, why should they? They turn off high beams even if everybody forgets them on sometimes but that's inevitable. Low beams are getting too bright. I never turned my rear mirror into the anti glare position so often as in the last couple of years.
      - maxerickson 2y ago
        I'm not sure why you'd bother trying to converse with me if you thought I was asking about people turning off low beams at night. Plenty of people turn on their high beams and don't bother to manage them. I guess automatic dimming systems should help with that. Looking a bit, they don't necessarily default to on in US vehicles, which is likely to minimize the benefit.
        SoftTalker 2y ago
        The auto-dim systems don't always work, either. My mother-in-law's Toyota has this feature, and it seems to work when it wants to.
        trinix912 2y ago
        Same with a 2020 Honda Civic. Those auto-dim headlights shut themselves off in a timely manner about 50% of the time.
- Kon-Peki 2y ago
  This recall is for the high-beams. And yes, the EU allows brighter high-beams than the US. This seems to be the extent of the recall. But there are other differences between the EU and US. For example, on what the headlights are illuminating. US headlights shine more light off to the right of the vehicle than EU and I think it is due to the assumption that roadside signs are more often lit via headlights/refection in the US vs sign-mounted lighting in the EU. I think most people agree that EU regulations allow for significantly better headlights than US regulations allow. But those better headlights must be paired with an expensive adaptive system or they become terribly dangerous. If you compare "cheap car" headlights in the US vs EU they are probably very similar in performance.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
- thephyber 2y ago
  Brightness of two headlights is not a single floating point number. There are regulations governing the spread/angle, the minimum brightness, the maximum brightness, how much an object at X distance is illuminated, whether the angle of the beams is too bright in the vision of oncoming drivers, etc.
  - mistercheph 2y ago
    and most manufacturers are guilty of dieselgate style skirting of regulations while upping the ante in the war to create the brightest most blinding headlight
potato3732842 2y ago
>So are the US and EU both saying that each other's way is wrong and too dangerous? Real life disagreements on minor technicalities between competing bureaucracies are not zero sum or conducted in breathless hand wringing internet rhetoric. It's more like a disagreement on a FOSS mailing list.
- groos 2y ago
  I believe EU allows directionally controllable projector headlights (my description, I don't know the official name). These can be brighter because they can be directed away from oncoming traffic. The US, in contrast, is lagging in approving this technology and puts an absolute limit on the brightness.
- josephcsible 2y ago
  I'm not surprised there's a disagreement. I'm surprised the disagreement is both sides saying "our way is safer", rather than it being one side saying "this safety benefit isn't worth it" and the other saying "yes it is".
  - kevin_thibedeau 2y ago
    The problem isn't the disagreement in specifications. It's the poor German quality control that doesn't prevent these mistakes from happening. This wasn't a significant problem when the parts were physically different for different markets and the assembly line would ensure the wrong parts weren't present.
  - rsynnott 2y ago
    > I'm surprised the disagreement is both sides saying "our way is safer" That's somewhat common for US/EU safety disagreements. Here's the canonical example, from back when the TTIP was still seriously being considered: https://www.forbes.com/sites/nadiaarumugam/2012/10/25/why-american-eggs-would-be-illegal-in-a-british-supermarket-and-vice-versa/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/nadiaarumugam/2012/10/25/why-am...
thephyber 2y ago
There are some notable value judgements that are different between US and EU regulations. I remember reading that the US car safety rules generally assume that the people in the car do not follow the rules, whereas EU regulations assume they follow the law and use seatbelts. US crash safety tests don’t care about the damage the car does to pedestrians, but EU regulations do factor that in. https://www.npr.org/2015/10/16/449090584/why-arent-auto-safety-standards-universal https://www.npr.org/2015/10/16/449090584/why-arent-auto-safe...
- KK7NIL 2y ago
  > US car safety rules generally assume that the people in the car do not follow the rules > US crash safety tests don’t care about the damage the car does to pedestrians As a EU citizen living in the US, this makes perfect sense. The quality of driving here is far lower, I often see vehicles without plates or temp tags and it's not unusual to hear about uninsured drivers hitting people. It's ironic that such a car centric country naturally ends up with terrible drivers because of the low barrier to entry.
  - thephyber 2y ago
    IMHO, there’s diminishing returns in regulations that try to protect someone who actively doesn’t want to protect themselves. It just adds extra cost (R&D, complexity of design/manufacturing, different parts for different jurisdictions, different parts SKUs to stock, etc). The upside? It probably saves the lives of some people so reckless they shouldn’t be driving.
    - ilbeeper 2y ago
      And the pedestrians?
      - deleted 2y ago
        [deleted]
      - lupusreal 2y ago
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
abeppu 2y ago
But also, since it's a software-addressable issue, and because this process is likely such a headache, I wonder if in a couple of years they'll have a version that picks its headlight configuration based on your location. You'll drive over a border at night and do a slight double-take as your lights change their beam width or something.
onion2k 2y ago
Presumably, if there were a way for the headlights to comply with both US and EU regulations, they'd just have them be that way everywhere... Unless someone in the marketing department has determined that headlight brightness is a selling point for 0.001% of customers, in which case they'd configure them to the maximum allowed in the region.
ErigmolCt 2y ago
Ideally, a universal standard that balances both approaches would be the safest way forward
egorfine 2y ago
Bear in mind that matrix lights are the norm in EU on high end cars while in US they are prohibited. I bet that explains the brightness: you can have overly bright lights if they are matrix while obviously that would be detrimental in regular headlights.
- ssl-3 2y ago
  Things like matrix lights used to be prohibited on new cars in the US. This has subsequently changed: https://www.nhtsa.gov/press-releases/nhtsa-allow-adaptive-driving-beam-headlights-new-vehicles-improving-safety-drivers https://www.nhtsa.gov/press-releases/nhtsa-allow-adaptive-dr...
  - egorfine 2y ago
    Oh, that's good news! (Why do I have a feeling that all the ways I can come up with to compliment the US for this achievement sound like irony?)
    - ssl-3 2y ago
      It's kind of meh news at this point. There's a ton of blinding vehicles on the road in the States, and it is getting worse at an accelerated rate, and even if fancy matrix-ey headlights became the norm it will take a Very Long Time for the old stuff to get cycled out. Up next, let me tell you about that time that we held onto analog AMPS cell phones for years longer than any developed country that I know if, and how when we did finally begin to transition to something digital we made sure that we failed to standardize on any one format and made all of them as incompatible with things like European GSM as we could.
      - egorfine 2y ago
        Oh yeah, tell me about it. > held onto analog AMPS cell *cough* faxes, anyone? *cough*

tradertef 2y ago

There are too many cars with this problem. Especially high trucks and SUVs whose beams blinds drivers in front of them..

kelseyfrog 2y ago
I keep a hand mirror for just this case. Most passengers are more than eager to reflect it back and it almost always solves the problem.
- ASalazarMX 2y ago
  Feedback at its finest.
- Sohcahtoa82 2y ago
  Another option, if the headlights are at eye level, is to move the rear-view mirror so that you see the passenger seat headrest. That makes it the perfect angle to make their headlights reflect right back at them.
  - JTyQZSnP3cQGa8B 2y ago
    Is it because of the dual mirror system? Do you have to actually lower the mirror? Asking for a friend who is blinded daily by these idiots.
    - 01HNNWZ0MV43FF 2y ago
      It's because that will square up the mirror. From a top down view, the mirror will be perpendicular to the light rays
- everdrive 2y ago
  Solas tape is another potential option.
alephxyz 2y ago
Adaptive driving / glare-free lighting is legal in the US and Canada now and is supposed to reduce that problem

tester756 2y ago

In general new cars have annoying lightings in compare to old cars

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
kavalg 2y ago
I guess it is the LED to blame. Many small bright spots instead of a bigger, but less bright single light source

mitjam 2y ago

High beams are becoming some kind of weapon here in the EU. You have red spots and lines for some time when you happen to encounter a Porsche SUV heading your way angrily flashing at the one in front of them. What‘s next? Lasers? They are just too powerful.

Ylpertnodi 2y ago
EU? Switzerland being the worst! Related: 1) indicators ( eu flashing yellow ones) are getting smaller: ok at night, but during the day...very hard to see. I prefer the US red brake/ blinker to these tiny mf's. *2 Animated (EU only?) yellow indicators. The transition between each segment (usually five?) is always too slow, and very distracting. I prefer the US, and very terrible, blinky-brake lights to these disco-on-xanax horrors. 3. Why can’t there be a sign for 'zippering' where traffic merges? 4 - Why can’t people just zipper-in anyway?
- Wonkey 2y ago
  Regarding point 3. Different countries we have slightly different signs and road markings but signs for merging is a thing. Example from Denmark: https://koerekort--guiden-dk.translate.goog/sammenfletning/?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=no&_x_tr_pto=wapp https://koerekort--guiden-dk.translate.goog/sammenfletning/?...
- trinix912 2y ago
  > Why can’t people just zipper-in anyway? Because people still think they're somehow going to arrive 30min faster by not merging one-by-one, ignoring the fact that by not letting others in they're actively slowing all other traffic down. Then have all other nervous drivers looking for the first opportunity to cut someone off because they're not going to be able to merge otherwise and you end up with all those crashes near the ends of merge lanes. It's a driving culture issue, varies by country.
- rlv-dan 2y ago
  > Animated yellow indicators [are] very distracting Completely agree. If I buy a new car, I will ask if it is possible to turn these off out of respect for other drivers!

hyeonwho4 2y ago

Was buying a new car headlight last year and the sales associate pointed me to replace my halogen bulbs with new (more expensive) LED "fog lights", but they were clearly labelled "not legal for use on public roads". I wonder how many people get upsold on headlights which are actually illegally bright and never notice.

jeffbee 2y ago
It's not only that they are bright, but also that halogen optics aren't appropriate for the emission pattern of LEDs.
- k4rli 2y ago
  That's not correct. Projector headlights can still be used with LEDs and pattern will be correct. Reflector units aren't compatible. Halogen->LED like Halogen->Xenon isn't allowed in Europe if a car doesn't have automatic levelling and headlight washers.
- gambiting 2y ago
  OSRAM has now made an LED retrofit kit for halogen reflectors that is approved and road legal everywhere in the EU - it's just very expensive for the time being, I'd have a hard time justifying it. https://www.osram.com/ecat/NIGHT%20BREAKER%20H4-LED-LED%20high%20and%20low%20beam%20lamps%20(street%20legal)-Car%20lighting-Automotive/com/en/GPS01_3695161/ZMP_4063288/ https://www.osram.com/ecat/NIGHT%20BREAKER%20H4-LED-LED%20hi...
  - yourusername 2y ago
    For me the big advantage of LED over Halogen is the service life. Back when i had Halogens i had to switch bulbs at least once a year, depending on your car you may have to go to a garage to have it done. 130 euro for a set of LED retrofit bulbs would be worth it just to avoid that hassle.
  - jq-r 2y ago
    Well not everywhere in Europe. I have Philips version of LED bulbs which replaced my halogen lights. They are great, and they have the same beam form so they don't blind anyone. At the same time, they wanted to fail me on the annual inspection because "a car which came with halogen lights cannot have LED lights". Next time I'll put halogens just for the inspection. Completely moronic laws.

HPsquared 2y ago

The most annoying thing for me is the "blue fringe" on a lot of modern headlights that use lenses to refract and focus the light. These lenses aren't the best and have chromatic aberration, resulting in a fringe of blue light at the top of the beam. Result: people see flashing blue(-ish) light in their rear view mirror. Not a good thing, very distracting!

globular-toast 2y ago
I had this the worst the other day. A car was following me and I kept thinking there was an emergency vehicle behind because I could see the blue fringe. The worst thing about all these lights is they aren't static. For a start I can see the LEDs flickering, presumably due to PWM. Why a fully DC circuit that doesn't even dim the bulbs needs to use PWM is beyond me. But the worst is their "clever" auto levelling and dipping etc. It just looks like the light is constantly in flux which is really distracting and annoying.
- smileysteve 2y ago
  Xenon bulbs run with an ac inverter
  - globular-toast 2y ago
    Interesting. I didn't know that. Looking around online it seems they run at a frequency around 250-300Hz which may be noticeable. I notice it more when lights are far away and in my peripheral vision. I assumed they were LEDs because I've definitely noticed it with LEDs but I guess they could be xenons too.
    - smileysteve 2y ago
      There's also noise from alternators, which are effectively an ac generator, but have a rectifier and diode that cut it at 12v and DC.

danielodievich 2y ago

The occupational hazard of driving a really low to the ground Mini is that every new car with Bright-Ass-Lights (our family name for them) heading towards me is a punch into my eyeball. Fortunately I can flip the rear-view prism mirror to deal with similar vehicles behind me. The new trucks - raptors and f-150 - are particularly obnoxious, they are 2x my height and terrifying.

colanderman 2y ago

I passionately loathe Porsche headlights in general. The particular pattern of 4 very bright dots constantly tricks my eyes into thinking they are focusing incorrectly which is distracting and borderline painful. The Macan EV's pattern of lines rather than dots actually _alleviates_ this problem for me so I'm somewhat disappointed it's _this_ Porsche and not every other one on the road whose headlights are being replaced.

Reason077 2y ago
The headlights aren't being replaced, it's just a software fix. Still a bit of a fail for Porsche if a software fix requires a dealer visit and can't be deployed over-the-air, though.

__mharrison__ 2y ago

Perhaps it's my old age but I feel like either folks drive around with their brights on or new cars have lights that are way too bright.

mistercheph 2y ago
It's real, and manufacturers are deliberately skirting US headlight brightness regulations

OptionOfT 2y ago

Always interesting about how people get angry about headlights in the USA. Being from Europe, the European ones are superior. They go further and they are brighter, and have a different cut-off: ECE vs DOT: https://i.ibb.co/ryf8W0w/dotece.jpg https://i.ibb.co/ryf8W0w/dotece.jpg When I lived in Europe (Belgium) every year the beam height was checked on my car. That way I wouldn't blind people when driving behind them. Here in there US there are no such things, yet cars often enough get headlights replaced which aren't adjusted afterwards. Or people install a lift-kit which hasn't been taken into account when designing the vehicle. Now I wonder if the Macan has different lights in the US vs ROW, as the cut-off isn't something that is easily changeable, and it would massively increase the cost for something that is never activated. But having the same bulbs makes sense. That said, I looked into replacing the headlights on mine, but then you end up with a Frankenstein's monster car, as parts of it are US coded, and parts EU. I did get EU mirrors.

lifestyleguru 2y ago
> European ones are superior. No they aren't. Driving on the roads in continental Europe I see it all. LED lights with blue glare, road beams with strength of high beams, adaptive strobing LED/laser headlights, adaptive LED/laser headlights scanning surroundings with top-down bright horizontal line, badly adjusted headlights directed and the eyesight level. Includes brand new unmodified cars.
trinix912 2y ago
> Being from Europe, the European ones are superior. They go further and they are brighter Driving in Europe, I get constantly blinded by french cars and their headlights. Those headlights are just way too bright, combined with shitty engineering. The automatic ones don't turn off fast enough. Then you have people blinking at approaching cars to trigger that sensor. Many drivers don't bother manually turning them off, on some cars the headlights are still controlled by a rotary switch that requires you to take your hands off the steering wheel, while on others the auto-headlights aren't easy to re-enable if you had to manually turn them off once so people don't bother turning them off at all.

chrisbrandow 2y ago

I’m so freaking sick of tall cars/trucks with LED beams that are so bright.

surfingdino 2y ago

How odd. I used to own a car that had an easily accessible setting adjusting lights to the EU or UK settings. Surely they ought to be a similar setting in Porsches?

lifestyleguru 2y ago
The very essence and point of some brands is being a selfish asshole.
arkh 2y ago
> setting adjusting lights to the EU or UK settings Many people on the continent need to learn about this. Lot of them are lighting up the opposite lane like if it was the side of the road instead.
- jeroenhd 2y ago
  I've seen the same thing happen with UK cars here. I don't think most drivers even realise that their headlights aren't uniformly lighting up the road in front of them. IMO places where people switch what side of the road people drive on (ferries, tunnels, etc.) should put up warnings and hand out fines to people with reversed lights. For cars that don't have digitally adjustable lights, I'm sure there will be money making opportunities for garages near these places where the lights can be physically adjusted.
  - surfingdino 2y ago
    You can buy special stickers that modify light beams. Adjusting lights is actually mandatory and not doing so can result in a ticket. My old car had a setting for it in the main menu. I used it every time I was driving to and from France/UK.
Hamuko 2y ago
I don't see why American Porsches would need such an option? Where is the closest left-hand traffic country relative to the US and how feasible is it to get your car there?

mistercheph 2y ago

Regulators asleep at the wheel while drivers and manufacturers are locked in an eye melting arms race to blind everyone else on the road

pluc 2y ago

I have entirely stopped driving at night because of this. When I do, I drive with my high beams on and sunglasses. If you're gonna be selfish so that you can see 200 meters in front of you, well so can I.

pants2 2y ago
You're literally the type of selfish person you're complaining about.
- pluc 2y ago
  If you can't beat em join em

dmje 2y ago

I’m mainly glad to see that this is a recognised problem and not just another thing that I’m noticing more as I get into my 50s

foundart 2y ago

Related: https://www.theringer.com/2024/12/03/tech/headlight-brightness-cars-accidents https://www.theringer.com/2024/12/03/tech/headlight-brightne...

KennyBlanken 2y ago
Ah yes, computer programmers on reddit doing what they do best: thinking that they're so very smart (because they're programmers) and thus more qualified than professionals in their own fields. Can't fool them! They're not one of those sheeple! > “First, I’d like to teach you some words,” How has his brain not imploded from the fatal levels of condescension? He thought a writer wouldn't know what "obfuscation" means? Also: that is a magazine about football, and an article written by someone who writes about culture items like Taylor Swift. It's not "reporting." It's (at best) commentary. Completely missing: any sources from people who, you know, actually know what the hell they're talking about. For example, someone who knows what the hell they're talking about could point out that the flood of photos from digital cameras in that subreddit, used as "proof", are from digital cameras which have barely a few f-stops of dynamic range, whereas the human eye has thirty. The very best digital SLRs in the world have a dynamic range of around 14 stops.

martinpw 2y ago

A petition to sign, for those in the US: https://chng.it/kZbGRfkzMY https://chng.it/kZbGRfkzMY

amanaplanacanal 2y ago
Do these petitions actually do anything? I've always assumed they are a feel good measure that accomplished nothing.

crnkofe 2y ago

Post-Corona cars are all much brighter. Its gotten so bad that I'm frequently left wondering if people are driving with high beams or just regular new-age lights. Got to wait to see if the person on the other side drops the lights to be sure. SUVs in particular are bad especially during acceleration which points the lights higher and on inclined road. I also regularly "switch" rear-view mirror to dim mode otherwise I'm literally 3-way blinded also from side mirrors. I didn't do any of these things regularly 5y ago. I'm still wondering if this is just automotive industry incompetence of making safe vehicles or an "incentive" to buy a SUV yourself so you don't get blinded all the time.

ljf 2y ago
Here in the UK I can't say that we have the same issue - BUT we have far fewer SUVs and lights are regulated far more. You'll fail your yearly MOT (car roadworthiness test) if you have lights that are too bright or misaligned, and I have seen people pulled over in London for having non-standard/too bright lights. We have a wattage maximum for headlights too. I am under the impression that roadworthiness test and regulations are very different in the states - is that the case?
- arethuza 2y ago
  I live in a rural area of Scotland and I don't really have a problem with headlights - 99.9% of drivers dip their full beams when they are aware of you. Now if we could only get people to indicate correctly on roundabouts.... - that's a far bigger peeve of mine than headlights!
- bsmithers 2y ago
  Really? I think we have exactly the same problem in the UK. Granted, my eyes are more susceptible post laser surgery, but headlights are definitely getting brighter and higher as the years go by.
- DrBazza 2y ago
  It certainly seems like headlights are far brighter in the UK right now, given that they're all LEDs. Of course it could just be confirmation bias, as I'm getting older and I suppose my eyes gradually deteriorate. I do a lot of night time driving and oncoming traffic is definitely brighter, for me at least, than 20 years ago. Then there's the fact that old headlights were one bulb, and the mirrored surface behind them was simpler. Another problem is white light is harsh, and the old incandescent bulbs had a yellow/off white tinge which is easier (the redder the light, the less likely it is to destroy your night vision).

ErigmolCt 2y ago

At least it's a relatively easy fix, though owners still have to make the trip to a service center

ngcc_hk 2y ago

My little Toyota did dim the light or just lower the light … and hence it is better. You need the high beam all the time in uk roads as they mostly do not have road lights. But keep in switch on and off in my old cars are hard. But those high beam can kill me one day no doubt. Too many close call and hence the little Toyota i got I feel comfortable to use the high beam all the time.

gortok 2y ago

The default 'height' of the Tesla Model Y headlights make it appear to be bright lights by default. I live in the DC metro area, and buses (who are typically folks that drive a lot) would constantly flash me to let me know they thought my brights were on. You can go into the car's settings and lower the headlights, but because of where it is by default, it presents a dangerous situation for other cars. How many non-tech folks would know to even search for this option? https://service.tesla.com/docs/Model3/ServiceManual/en-us/GUID-29CF03C8-9755-42C2-B45B-6B61900806B0.html https://service.tesla.com/docs/Model3/ServiceManual/en-us/GU...

mbreese 2y ago
I had to do the same with my 3 when I got it years back. Now people also get confused when I have my fog lights on (but that’s rare given how annoying difficult it is to find the setting on a touchscreen while driving). Actually calibrating the lights angle should be done at the factory (or prior to delivery), but mine were definitely too high. But I think in general (and with other cars too), the problem isn’t the brightness of lights, but their angle. Bit even with my lights lowered, if I’m at a stop light that is on a slight hill, that still can cause the angle of my lights to appear to someone on the other side as too bright.

nottorp 2y ago

Only the Macan? They should recall about 1/4 of new cars if we're to believe what I see when night driving...

sans_souse 2y ago

In the mean time, whilst we wait for our ancient laws to catch up to the advent of the LED headlight, it would be really cool if everyone could find that little bit logic and intuition in themselves to do their best to adapt something like this, as their ~"etiquette"~ for night driving; AUTO HI-BEAMS: OFF (always OFF) HI-BEAMS ON: ONLY when there are no cars in front of you APPROACHING BRIGHT HEADLIGHTS: Short 2x burst. Resist going further than this, just glance off to the passsenger-side of your windshield and avoid looking directly at the lights, deep in thought... IF you are FLASHED by oncoming traffic, at least CHECK (the indicator on your dash will be a very bright BLUE) - IF they are ON then TURN THEM OFF. IF they are off THEN give a courtesy SHORT 1-2x flash. IF the car(s) IN FRONT of you seem to be excessively braking or flashing their HI-BEAMS seemingly at random - CHECK YOURS! Courtesy flash not recommended so much here. Cars BEHIND you with BRIGHT LIGHTS? Brake tap might or might not help, I also target large traffic signs with some short rapid bursts to hopefully get their attention. At some point, doing nothing becomes the best strategy. Some people really do love antagonizing. Stay focused when you're driving, you should be striving to do it "like a pro" and with respect for others. /psa p.s. that botton in your light control cluster that you don't know what it is? Leave it off please. Those are your Tow-lamps and they make your taillights extremely bright.

rsynnott 2y ago

The article also contains the bizarre detail that the petrol version of this is available in the US, but not the EU... due to _cybersecurity_ regulations. Disappointingly little detail is given on just what the issue is in the linked article... https://www.motor1.com/news/706105/porsche-continuing-gas-macan-sales/ https://www.motor1.com/news/706105/porsche-continuing-gas-ma...

cies 2y ago

It's a race: brighter lights and tainted glass. Looks really cool. Give privacy to the driver of such vehicle, while allowing them to see the road. Good for them. But other road users: bikes, pedestrians, old car drivers... They suffer. The only way to improve your situation: also buy a new car with bright lights and tainted glass.

lifestyleguru 2y ago
The more tinted your windows are the brighter headlights you need, easy! You can also wear sunglasses at all times which allows for even brighter headlights. Absolute pro tip - cover the windows externally with reflective foil to return any light anyone will dare to beam at your car.

deskr 2y ago

This is a general problem in the UK: https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2024/apr/02/uk-government-review-headlight-glare-drivers-complaints https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2024/apr/02/uk-governmen...

teeray 2y ago

It would be nice to have “blue light cameras” that automatically ticketed people for this, since cops seem uninterested in enforcing it.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]