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It's not about Apple. It's Apple, Google and Amazon, PayPal, Block, Venmo and Zelle.[1] Everybody with over 50,000,000 transactions annually gets CFPB oversigh

It's not about Apple. It's Apple, Google and Amazon, PayPal, Block, Venmo and Zelle.[1] Everybody with over 50,000,000 transactions annually gets CFPB oversight. Actual rule: [2] This doesn't really do much. It creates no consumer rights. It does give CFPB examiners the power to examine records and interview people. It means that numbers such as how many PayPal customers have complaints will be looked at. Bank examiners look at error rates, fraud losses, unresolved complaints, and such. The effect will probably be that some of the big players with weak customer service will have to get their act together. [1] https://www.consumerfinance.gov/about-us/newsroom/cfpb-finalizes-rule-on-federal-oversight-of-popular-digital-payment-apps-to-protect-personal-data-reduce-fraud-and-stop-illegal-debanking/ https://www.consumerfinance.gov/about-us/newsroom/cfpb-final... [2] https://files.consumerfinance.gov/f/documents/cfpb_final-rule_general-use-digital-consumer-payment-applications_2024-11.pdf https://files.consumerfinance.gov/f/documents/cfpb_final-rul...

justinclift 2y ago
> The effect will probably be that some of the big players with weak customer service will have to get their act together. Heh, if PayPal ever gets rid of its reputation for dodgyness, and it also provides reasonable customer service, then it might because a decent option.
- latexr 2y ago
  > if PayPal ever gets rid of its reputation for dodgyness First they’d have to stop doing dodgy things. But they just keep doing more. https://wasnever.cool/@schmutzie/113222747933501630 https://wasnever.cool/@schmutzie/113222747933501630
  - justinclift 2y ago
    Yeah, I don't personally reckon it's going to happen any time soon either.
pdpi 2y ago
> Everybody with over 50,000,000 transactions annually gets CFPB oversight. This is such a simple, straightforward rule. No weird gotchas, exceptions, or whatever. Just the most basic test you can think of for "are you acting as a financial institution in the most obvious day-to-day sense of the term?" and a reasonably sane (I think?) threshold. It's also so bloody easy to prepare for. Are you handling 1M transactions anually? No worries, keep doing your thing. Are you handling 20M transactions annually? You probably want to start planning. 40M p.a.? You want to be preempt the moment when you get regulated.
- andrepd 2y ago
  Simple rules are an antidote to corruption and inefficiency, but only if they are paired with transparency and a judicial system willing to enforce the spirit of the laws, lest they be easily gameable.
  - lukan 2y ago
    "willing to enforce the spirit of the laws, lest they be easily gameable." That is the key, otherwise I see just lots of sub or "independent" companies handling just below 50,000,000 transactions on behalf of the big company.
almostnormal 2y ago
Paypal isn't just treated like a bank, it is a bank, at least in the EU.
- graemep 2y ago
  Its regulated as an "electronic money institution" in the UK—i.e. its regulated but it does not have the rock solid guarantees that make banks a safe place to keep your savings.
  - chii 2y ago
    but could paypal legally use the money you deposited inside your paypal account for some other purpose (of their choosing), provided they can front the money back if you ask for it?
    - everfrustrated 2y ago
      In the UK no. This is reserved for Banks only. They can make money on the interest which I presume is why EBay UK has moved to a no-fees model but they now keep your money in a balance rather than paying out immediately.
    - withinboredom 2y ago
      Under most US money transmitter laws, they can’t do that either, not even off the interest. (Hence why they charge fees to move money)
ksec 2y ago
I am thinking that would also include Stripe? Or is Stripe not consumer facing? Not that Apple is forced to open up NFC worldwide. I am wondering what would happen next? Surely Apple has incentive to own NFC transaction or something like Apple Cash.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- Animats 2y ago
  Stripe is considered to be acting for a "sponsor bank", the one that handles the merchant's account. Stripe itself does not hold customer or merchant money.
  - amelius 2y ago
    I could swear there was an article here years ago about Stripe getting the bank status.
- alberth 2y ago
  > major technology firms that offer digital wallets I don’t think so. Since I’m not aware of a Stripe Digital Wallet offering of theirs for money movement.
JumpCrisscross 2y ago
> This doesn't really do much. It creates no consumer rights. It does give CFPB examiners the power to examine records and interview people Examination power means the CFPB can act on consumer complaints. It’s an enormous practical expansion of power.
mxuribe 2y ago
> ...The effect will probably be that some of the big players with weak customer service will have to get their act together... Agreed that maybe *explicitly* consumer rights are not added on so to speak...but if you are correct about the effect being improved customer service, i would say that would be a big "consumer rights" win! I'll take that over keeping the status quo of crap customer service.
asdfasdf1 2y ago
that may explain Google's excellent customer service! can't wait for antitrust to split them into million pieces...

justinclift 2y ago

> The effect will probably be that some of the big players with weak customer service will have to get their act together. Heh, if PayPal ever gets rid of its reputation for dodgyness, and it also provides reasonable customer service, then it might because a decent option.

latexr 2y ago
> if PayPal ever gets rid of its reputation for dodgyness First they’d have to stop doing dodgy things. But they just keep doing more. https://wasnever.cool/@schmutzie/113222747933501630 https://wasnever.cool/@schmutzie/113222747933501630
- justinclift 2y ago
  Yeah, I don't personally reckon it's going to happen any time soon either.

pdpi 2y ago

> Everybody with over 50,000,000 transactions annually gets CFPB oversight. This is such a simple, straightforward rule. No weird gotchas, exceptions, or whatever. Just the most basic test you can think of for "are you acting as a financial institution in the most obvious day-to-day sense of the term?" and a reasonably sane (I think?) threshold. It's also so bloody easy to prepare for. Are you handling 1M transactions anually? No worries, keep doing your thing. Are you handling 20M transactions annually? You probably want to start planning. 40M p.a.? You want to be preempt the moment when you get regulated.

andrepd 2y ago
Simple rules are an antidote to corruption and inefficiency, but only if they are paired with transparency and a judicial system willing to enforce the spirit of the laws, lest they be easily gameable.
- lukan 2y ago
  "willing to enforce the spirit of the laws, lest they be easily gameable." That is the key, otherwise I see just lots of sub or "independent" companies handling just below 50,000,000 transactions on behalf of the big company.

almostnormal 2y ago

Paypal isn't just treated like a bank, it is a bank, at least in the EU.

graemep 2y ago
Its regulated as an "electronic money institution" in the UK—i.e. its regulated but it does not have the rock solid guarantees that make banks a safe place to keep your savings.
- chii 2y ago
  but could paypal legally use the money you deposited inside your paypal account for some other purpose (of their choosing), provided they can front the money back if you ask for it?
  - everfrustrated 2y ago
    In the UK no. This is reserved for Banks only. They can make money on the interest which I presume is why EBay UK has moved to a no-fees model but they now keep your money in a balance rather than paying out immediately.
  - withinboredom 2y ago
    Under most US money transmitter laws, they can’t do that either, not even off the interest. (Hence why they charge fees to move money)

ksec 2y ago

I am thinking that would also include Stripe? Or is Stripe not consumer facing? Not that Apple is forced to open up NFC worldwide. I am wondering what would happen next? Surely Apple has incentive to own NFC transaction or something like Apple Cash.

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
Animats 2y ago
Stripe is considered to be acting for a "sponsor bank", the one that handles the merchant's account. Stripe itself does not hold customer or merchant money.
- amelius 2y ago
  I could swear there was an article here years ago about Stripe getting the bank status.
alberth 2y ago
> major technology firms that offer digital wallets I don’t think so. Since I’m not aware of a Stripe Digital Wallet offering of theirs for money movement.

JumpCrisscross 2y ago

> This doesn't really do much. It creates no consumer rights. It does give CFPB examiners the power to examine records and interview people Examination power means the CFPB can act on consumer complaints. It’s an enormous practical expansion of power.

mxuribe 2y ago

> ...The effect will probably be that some of the big players with weak customer service will have to get their act together... Agreed that maybe *explicitly* consumer rights are not added on so to speak...but if you are correct about the effect being improved customer service, i would say that would be a big "consumer rights" win! I'll take that over keeping the status quo of crap customer service.

asdfasdf1 2y ago

that may explain Google's excellent customer service! can't wait for antitrust to split them into million pieces...