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I can't believe that the average price of a car in the U.S. is almost $50k. For rapidly depreciating assets. Here I am working out TCO costs for a range of mid
by bane 2y ago
I can't believe that the average price of a car in the U.S. is almost $50k. For rapidly depreciating assets.
Here I am working out TCO costs for a range of mid-sized cars for my next purchase, and trying to decide if the extra $2k for a Prius Prime over a Prius will beat the differential in fuel costs for my driving situation. I feel like a chump, but I know it's the smarter thing to do with my money.
I coworker of mine just spent $100k on a regular old pickup truck that is planned to spend less than 5% of the time doing anything other than commuting him back and forth to work. It doesn't fit in any of the parking garages around here, or in his garage -- he has to park it at the other side of a surface lot because it doesn't fit in the normal spots. It gets like 11 mpg and uses the 92 octane fuel.
Americans won't buy cheap cars, they won't buy upmarket small cars, but they'll burn their children's college fund into the ground for a 2 second gain on 0-60 and bad ergonomics.
I can afford the fancy car, but I'd rather turn $100k into $200k in my index funds and buy an entire apartment in Spain overlooking the Mediterranean with the gains.
We can have nice things, but this is why we can't have affordable things.
- bluGill 2y agoSome Americans. The average car in the US is 12 years old. I just checked my local craigslist, most cars of that age are under 10k, and almost none are more than 20k. Since that is average we can assume cars of that age will run (with maintenance) for another decade and so shouldn't be very expensive. Of course at that age almost nothing is electric.
- JeremyNT 2y agoI do think part of it is how darned long cars last now. I have an 18 year old car that I purchased used long ago and currently has no mechanical issues. I've had a few repairs but nothing terribly expensive. I have no interest in replacing it. When you think about it, people who are frugal will buy practical and cost effective cars and drive them for a decade or more (that is, if they buy a car at all!). That means they either never buy new at all, or when they do they do so only seldom. People who are chasing the new shiny will continue to churn through new shiny. And of course they want to pay a lot to get only the shiniest. So I can see why the average new car cost would creep up, because buying a new car at all is a luxury in most cases.
- llm_trw 2y agoThe difference is that new cars are safe cars. Old cars are death traps. If you value your life you will be buying the new shiny every 5 years or less.
- 616c 2y agoIs there evidence for the rationale for five years or less for the age of a car? I hate all the entertainment systems and believe anything beyond Bluetooth and no complex entertainment system to be a lethal distraction that makes cars just as unsafe as older or weaker safety controls.
- nytesky 2y agoI do think CarPlay is very helpful for navigation, I mean, I can read map because I’m old but my kids and my wife when they’re driving need a onscreen display if they’re going somewhere new. And the CarPlay or similar provides a good navigation option that I think is safer than mounting a phone.
- afavour 2y agoWhile it’s certainly true that old cars are death traps I’d live to see a source showing that car safety is increasing at notable levels every five years. Federal safety standards haven’t.
- evgen 2y agoIt is one of those 'was it really that long ago? I am getting old' moments to actually look this up, but the last major safety features which moved the needle on keeping you alive in a car were the mandates for side-impact protection and anti-lock braking systems. Both are more than ten years old. I think you would be hard-pressed to name a single innovation from the past five years which has increased your lifespan in a car as either a driver or a passenger. Given the fact that things like adaptive braking, lane-following assist, and blind-spot sensors are old enough to be showing up in low-end cars these days I cannot name a single new or shiny safety feature which would not be available in a mid-tier car from 2014. Can you?
- eddd-ddde 2y agoThe average car in the US? Or the average daily driver car? Cars just don't disappear, so all vehicles would "polute" the statistics right?
- sn0wf1re 2y agoFrom what I have gathered, I assume average age of registered vehicles. I would also assume that collector cars would "pollute" the statistics, unless they are filtered out -- the details of the research are not stated. https://www.spglobal.com/mobility/en/research-analysis/average-age-vehicles-united-states-2024.html https://www.spglobal.com/mobility/en/research-analysis/avera...
- hattmall 2y agoAn older "nice" car is also a lot nicer than a new economy car and in most cases even a newer luxury model car. There may be more bells and whistles which are nice on new cars but it's fairly evident they have skimped on elements of the suspension and body that reduce roughness and road noise. There's a very marked difference in quality of vehicles made before and after the "realignment" prompted by the great recession, even as those cars are approaching 14-16 years old.
- wannacboatmovie 2y ago> coworker of mine just spent $100k on a regular old pickup truck > It gets like 11 mpg and uses the 92 octane fuel. I understand hating on pickup trucks is an easy way to farm upvotes on HN, but there is no 'regular pickup truck' in existence that gets 11 mpg. The closest that comes to that is the F-150 Raptor with turbocharged V8 which is a preposterous performance vehicle with a racing engine. It is a luxury item. Yet for some reason we don't criticize people with the same disdain who buy and drive sports cars which get as bad or even worse mpg. I guess the Lambo drivers never need to haul lumber. The F-150 is also offered in hybrid (which gets > double that mpg) and all electric drivetrains. I will make the equally presumptuous assumption that since you've narrowed your choices to "Prius or Prius" you harbor some grudges against pickup owners.
- danielcampos93 2y agohttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ecnS1Ygf0o0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ecnS1Ygf0o0 I've been waiting for the chance to use this
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- comte7092 2y agoThe grudges are valid. The default in America is to make everything out to be individualistic, but the rest of us have to bear the very real costs of the externality of pickups, not just limited to pollution but also safety, land use, etc.
- ac29 2y ago> Americans won't buy cheap cars Sure they will, they'll even buy cheap EVs. The highest lifetime EV sales in the US is the Leaf, Model 3/Y, and Bolt. They aren't at the top of the list because they're the best cars on the market, but because they are the cheapest.
- LeafItAlone 2y ago>The highest lifetime EV sales in the US is the Leaf, Model 3/Y, and Bolt. The cheapest Model 3 is $42,500. The cheapest Model Y is $45,000. Is that cheap? The Leaf ($30,000) and Bolt ($27,500) are cheap_er_ (by a lot), but they are still not what I (and presumably parent) would consider cheap.
- bane 2y agoThe Leaf was famously available for $10-$12k at one point.
- m463 2y agoUsed versions are cheap. (right now there are 5 under $3k) https://sfbay.craigslist.org/search/cta?auto_make_model=nissan%20leaf&sort=priceasc https://sfbay.craigslist.org/search/cta?auto_make_model=niss...
- Cerium 2y agoIt was 30k new, but you could lease it for nearly nothing (a friend got $120/month) or buy it off-lease for about 10k. I bought one for 10k in 2016, drove it as a daily commuter until 2022 and sold it for 6k.
- fragmede 2y agoWhat do consider affordable? There are cheaper cars out there, a Kia Forte will run you $21k, but a new entry-level Honda Civic is $25k, with options it'll get above $30k.
- dogleash 2y ago> Americans won't buy cheap cars Not from a new car dealership, no. They'll buy cheap cars, but the mere act of driving a new car off the lot is a huge deprecation event in the life of the car. Why would price sensitive buyers go to the dealership?
- kube-system 2y agoIn fact, most don't. 3/4 of car sales in the US are used cars. The vast majority of Americans are driving used cars. Only relatively well-to-do people buy new cars. It might seem counterintuitive, but the stock of cars on the road is rotated around a lot, and new cars are only a small fraction of them.
- stocknoob 2y agoYour index fund grows on the activity of people who spend 100k on a consumable item. Good for them, they can work their whole life if they like. You can relax and let compounding do the rest.
- FactKnower69 2y agoIf you're an American wondering why you're forced to buy shitty overpriced Teslas instead of those $15k BYD Dolphins, here's Janet Yellen screeching about how unfair it is that China uses its labor force to manufacture consumer goods instead of creating millions of bullshit make-work financialization jobs like good liberal democracies https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/yellen-intends-warn-china-clean-energy-subsidies-excess-production-capacity-2024-03-27/ https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/yellen-intends-warn-...
- joyeuse6701 2y agoI have a feeling that if BYD was a Taiwanese company it’d be fine, could there be a concern with the Xi government’s bellicosity?
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- amusedcyclist 2y agoBoth parties are in the wrong on this. Americans (and others) would be wealthier and the world would decarbonize faster if the tariffs on China were lifted but it is what the people want
- logotype 2y agoI would never, EVER, buy any BYD or any car manufactured in China. Support local brands who manufacture locally.
- snapcaster 2y agoWhy? edit: presumably you don't (or can't) hold this position for electronics or a myriad of other devices you already own. Why are cars different?
- vel0city 2y agoI'd totally buy a phone that was mostly US produced if it was the same (or better) quality within ~30% of the same price. I do tend to apply this same idea to a lot of things I buy. If there's an American version available with at least similar quality and some % of similar price, I'll pick the US one nearly every time. Goes even further when its something I know is made in my state, even further when it comes to the city I live in. The vast majority of the beer I drink is made in the city I live in, for example.
- itsoktocry 2y agoCity dwellers will spend $2500 a month for 400 sq feet of rented living space and laugh at people paying $50k for a car.
- poidos 2y agoYou said it yourself — their dwelling is the entire city. Those 400sqft are where they sleep and relax but most of their living probably happens outside. Different strokes and all that.
- stouset 2y agoSame with a hotel. The hotel is where I spend most of my time unconscious. Other than a few select destinations, why would I spend a fortune at a place where I’ll mostly be asleep?
- ghaff 2y agoMy experience with trying really low-ball hotels is not great. I rarely stay in really luxe places but I do usually go for some midrange business hotel in a city.
- stouset 2y agoYeah, my point was mostly against luxe hotels as opposed to somewhere I know will be clean and comfortable to get a good night’s sleep, and close to the places I want to visit.
- r00fus 2y agoHonestly I tried cheaper hotels and motels and often times I simply didn't sleep well there - usually due to some noise as some college or high school kids were running up and down the hallway outside or were partying in the room next door. YMMV.
- HWR_14 2y agoIf you are going to count where they live to be the whole city, you should increase the rent they pay to cover the cost of the third spaces they use in the cities as well.
- fire_lake 2y agoMadness. And people poke fun at annual phone upgraders. The big fancy car habit is far worse.
- jgalt212 2y ago> uses the 92 octane fuel There's no evidence that higher octane fuel is required or leads to performance gains in excess of the cost bump.
- sojournerc 2y agoHigh compression engines require high octane to avoid knock. It's not about performance. An engine with a turbo or super charger will always need higher octane fuel.
- jgalt212 2y agoI have yet to see a study showing efficiency gains, or losses, are greater than the price difference in fuel types.
- sojournerc 2y agoAs I said. It's not about efficiency. Knock (pre-ignition) will destroy an engine. I have a naturally aspirated infinity, but with compression ratio around 13:1 it calls for premium. Believe me I wouldn't pay for it if it wasn't necessary. It's still cheaper than a new engine.
- jgalt212 2y agoKnocking and engine efficiency are inter-related. That being said, unless you are constantly flooring the accelerator and / or doing a lot of track driving, it seems challenging to make a modern (and properly functioning) engine knock on a persistent basis (irrespective of octane).
- cactacea 2y agoThis is a weird hill to die on man. Modern ECUs are smart enough to tune the timings in to prevent knock when the wrong fuel is used, at the cost of both efficiency and fuel economy. "Runs" is not the same thing as "runs well"
- mattmaroon 2y agoA $100k pickup isn't a regular pickup, anymore than an $80k sedan is a regular sedan. It's gotta be more expensive than 95% of the pickups on the road. If it gets 11 mpg it must have a really beefy engine and be geared for towing. If it uses premium fuel, it's one of the badged models likely. One thing that's odd about the pickup market is it isn't segmented into low tier/mid tier/luxury tier the way other vehicles are. The luxury version of a Toyota is a Lexus. The luxury version of an F-150 is still an F-150, just a different badge level. Your friend's is a luxury pickup. If what you do 5% of the time absolutely requires a truck, you don't have many options. You can't rent a truck to tow easily and affordably. There are commercial truck rental places that do have vehicles you can tow with but if you're doing that even 2 days a month you might as well just buy the damn pickup. And I'd focus on median prices a lot more than mean, though I'm sure there's an increase in that too. Also, we drive a lot more miles than almost anyone, our gasoline is cheaper, our incomes are higher, and our cars last very long times and are safer than ever now. The average car is over a decade old now. When I was a kid, you got lucky if your odometer hit six figures, in fact some didn't even have that many digits! And I'm not that old. The American car market is perhaps the best example of an efficient, highly competitive, well-regulated marketplace. Whatever the average price is, it's what it should be.
- chii 2y agohow is it efficient when there's regulation that prevents manufacturers from directly selling, and have to go through dealers?
- mattmaroon 2y agoTesla sells directly but the market is not perfect. An imperfect market can still be efficient. It’s a spectrum not a binary.
- westmeal 2y agoWell regulated marketplace huh? You mean the marketplace that forces customers to purchase through a dealership because of dealership lobbies? You mean the marketplace which has those same dealers charge outrageous markups just because the law says they must exist? Ok.