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How to Train Yourself to Go to Sleep Earlier
- dbsmith83 2y agoSimilar to the journal idea, I keep a notebook by my bed where I can write down any thoughts or concerns I think of that needs attention the next day. This lets my mind relax so that I'm not worried about forgetting it or trying to solve it
- imzadi 2y agoI wish I could train myself to sleep on my back. I've been trying for years, but I can't seem to fall asleep without the pressure of the pillow on my face.
- edflsafoiewq 2y agoMe too. I can sort of "trick" myself by putting a balled-up blanket on my pillow and turning my face to rest against it.
- cassianoleal 2y agoLegit question, what's the reason for wanting to sleep in what seems to be an uncomfortable position for you? I also can't sleep on my back but have no urge to change that.
- imzadi 2y agoI have a lot of shoulder issues that are worsened by sleeping on my side or stomach. I also have a flat spot on the side of my face from always sleeping on it, and it gets worse the older I get. I'd like to be able to use overnight skin treatments without it getting all over my pillow.
- justinclift 2y agoWonder if making some kind of custom shaped bed (ie from memory foam) might be a useful solution?
- cassianoleal 2y agoFair enough. For what it’s worth, I fixed shoulder problems with a combination of mattress, pillow and arm position thought the latter is less important. I don’t have a flat face (yet?) though I can see how that could be annoying.
- donatzsky 2y agoWhile I can sleep on my back, I feel like I get better rest when on my side. It's not about how the pillow feels or anything like that, but my whole body and brain just seem to relax more. Apparently [1] sleeping on the side is better for your health, as well. [1] https://youtube.com/watch?v=O8UoAASCUsQ https://youtube.com/watch?v=O8UoAASCUsQ
- OptionOfT 2y agoMy SO used to sleep on her belly. Then we got an overpriced mattress with the same material that NASA uses... I'm an endless chaser of value. I hate to overpay for things. That mattress was $5k (king sized). She sleeps on her back, and her sleep quality has measurably improved.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- a_e_k 2y agoI like to sleep on my back, but with a pillow over my forehead and eyes (i.e., nose and mouth exposed to fresh air).
- erik_seaberg 2y agoOne nice thing about sleep apnea treatment (CPAP) is that you always have fresh air.
- codr7 2y agoSleeping on your back is worse for the spine and worse for breathing. I had to learn to sleep on the side after smashing a vertibrae in a climbing accident, no other position offloads the spine as effectively.
- jchw 2y agoThis feels completely stupid, but I noticed what seems like an unmistakable improvement in my sleep quality (more restful, less waking up too early) a few days after I adjusted my diet to include a lot more fiber intake. After googling it, it seems like it might be supported by studies, but I'm always a bit skeptical. Either way, if you have trouble getting good sleep, it's another dietary consideration to make. Increased fiber intake seems like it mostly has upsides. (The other advice in the article is obviously also solid, but none of it, including changing caffeine habits, really ever seemed to do much for me. So I guess it will vary a lot from person to person.)
- RalfWausE 2y agoHave a toddler. No, seriously: Since we have now a toddler running around who absolutely does not want to go to sleep when the adults are still running around has led US to much more healthy sleeping habbits
- n4r9 2y agoAs a parent of a toddler who currently wakes up every 1-2 hours, I'm not so sure this is the key to sleep hygiene!
- LUmBULtERA 2y agoRight? As another parent of a toddler, neither I nor any other parent I know of toddlers are getting as much sleep as we’d like want…
- fragmede 2y agoYes they wake up in the middle of the night, but ideally you try and put them down to sleep and enforce a regular bedtime, which is prime sleep hygiene.
- giancarlostoro 2y agoHate to ask but did you ever try sleep training? We started it super early after about 6 months and the only times our daughter has issues is rare. She will sleep the entire night most nights.
- n4r9 2y agoIirc 6 months is the recommended time to do it, as later on they've formed more attachments to parental figures. No, we haven't gone down that route ourselves. We did discuss it but decided against it. Partly because of how horrific it can be those first few nights, partly because we had friends who did it and had to redo it every time they hit a regression, and partly because of studies which suggest that the baby doesn't actually get more sleep, it just stops crying when it wakes up.
- iterateoften 2y agoI am a firm believer in sleep hygiene especially the rule “reserve the bedroom for sleep”. I have had conversations with friends when they complain about not enough sleep and one common theme is they use electronics in the bedroom before sleep. When I share similar recommendations as this article about not using tv or phone in the bed and to leave the bedroom and meditate if you can’t sleep after 20min I get a lot of pushback. The most common is that they can’t fall asleep without watching a show or movie on. This is right after they complained about not being able to sleep. The second one is around not wanting to change anything about their weed or alcohol use to improve their sleep. I think a lot of it has to do with trying to avoid other anxieties which makes their sleep worse which increases anxiety in a cycle. This is just anecdotal without much else to say other than in people in general seem pretty skeptical about sleep hygiene. And almost seem reluctant to experiment. But I’m a firm believer.
- resoluteteeth 2y ago> This is just anecdotal without much else to say other than in people in general seem pretty skeptical about sleep hygiene. And almost seem reluctant to experiment. But I’m a firm believer. As someone who often has difficulty getting to sleep, I have tried every sleep hygiene thing I have seen suggested but none of it works for me, at least in terms of getting to sleep, and conversely I find actually find doing special things around sleep to be counterproductive since they make me more more stressed out about getting to sleep, so I have decided to simply not worry about them. I do think they may be helpful for people who either don't really have issues getting to sleep but simply tend to get absorbed watching tv or something and go to sleep to late or who can get to sleep easily but have sleep quality issues, though.
- grvdrm 2y agoI am both for avoiding electronics but also enjoy TV in bed. Not necessary but it’s not something that I restrain much. Haven’t seen too many people suggest this: train yourself to wake up earlier. I wake up at 5. That’s not a hustle culture thing. Just the time when I can fit in my personal time, fitness, and a bit of free thinking before my kids wake up and the day starts. I can barely keep my eyes open past 930.
- 2y ago
- nunez 2y agoBedtime routines increase sleep anxiety in some people. Consistency, i.e. the time you go to bed and the time that you wake up, is the most important factor.
- serguzest 2y agoThis writing is as unhelpful as telling an obese person simply to exercise and eat less. Everyone is different; I'm one of those people who were made to protect the tribe while they sleep. I'm naturally nocturnal, and the silence of the night makes me more alert. Turning on a not-so-interesting documentary or political commentary on YouTube actually helps me relax and fall asleep.
- enlyth 2y agoSame, I'm nocturnal and a naturally anxious person. If I lie in bed doing nothing, I will just think about things that make me more anxious. A nice podcast or documentary will focus my thoughts on whatever I'm listening to and help me fall asleep easier.
- justinclift 2y agoUgh. Does that affect the other people around you? Asking because I live with a relative who has a similar problem (needs a tv on to fall asleep) and that noise directly stops me from falling asleep in the next room much of the time. It really sucks. :(
- enlyth 2y agoI live alone so no :) If it was bothering other people around me I'd listen with my airpods. Interestingly, my parents who are in their 60s, have no problems getting to sleep early, and they both fall asleep together to TV all the time, mostly watching reruns of old shows like Columbo
- Angostura 2y agoAs said relative to do what I do. For the last 30 years I've fallen asleep with one earphone in my ear. I nod off quick, wife not disturbed.
- justinclift 2y agoUnfortunately, the relative isn't receptive to requests nor negotiation. Oh well. :(
- jibcage 2y agoThe article, for all of its other faults, also manages to breeze over another crucial point: “Research shows that blue light suppresses the body’s production of melatonin, the sleep hormone. This can be helpful in the morning, when you want to wake up…” I find this to be a much easier habit to maintain, at least during summer: as close as possible after waking up, get as much light as you can, and at a regular time if possible. Sun lamps are an expensive but effective option during darker months, but they generally aren’t covered by insurance. The first I heard of this was when I spoke to a sleep doctor, and it has worked much better for me than melatonin ever did.
- vasco 2y agoBlue light effects on sleep have been utterly debunked as far as I know. If you google for blue light myth you'll find very convincing arguments that it was all bullshit.
- fifilura 2y agoI did my military service (25 years ago). After that I rarely wait more than 3 minutes to fall asleep. Not many books get read that way unfortunately, I used to read a lot before that. These days I do wake up at weird hours though, not sure what to do when I wake 4AM.
- DrillShopper 2y agoSounds like a good opportunity to read
- fifilura 2y agoCorrect observation :) Or reply to relevant replies to my half baked comments on HN.
- jspash 2y agoCould you elaborate? Was it from total exhaustion? Were you taught a special technique to help you sleep? Or was it from knowing you MUST get your rest or you'll suffer the entire next day?
- fifilura 2y agoRight! Should have been in my comment. I think an important part of it is that is made me stop worrying. Sleep will come to me eventually and meanwhile my body will continue working. Maybe my brain does not work optimally, but well enough. Sleep is my friend. (I was not anything like a navy seal but a commander of ~25 soldiers).
- theonething 2y agoSo being in the military made you stop worrying? How did it do that?
- codr7 2y agoBy pushing your limits.
- powersnail 2y agoI know that this might sound too obvious to say. But I've found that, it is much easier to maintain good sleep habits when real life is not stressful. If I'm facing a big problem in life, an important deadline for example, it is unlikely that any effort I put into sleeping habits is going to help. Sometimes, I just stay up as late, but instead of working, time is spent in blaming myself for not sleeping in time, and worrying about getting up tomorrow. The reason I think this is worth saying, is that sometimes, to break the vicious cycle of [stress -> sleep-deprivation -> more stress -> ...], you need to shift the focus to tackle the real life problem first, and don't beat yourself up for not being a good sleeper. Trying and failing to develop sleep hygiene can pile on the frustration and worsen the vicious cycle.
- m463 2y agoLike in the article, reading in bed helps me. I read something I can get into, get caught up in. Then I can relax, and am likely to let sleep get me. Doesn't always work, enough anxiety and you can't immerse yourself.
- adriand 2y agoThis is certainly true, although many of us have to deal with problems and projects large enough and time-consuming enough that if they prevented us from sleeping properly, we’d never sleep properly. It takes practice, essentially. Experimenting with various approaches until one finds methods that work. For the particular issue you described, one approach is to journal before bedtime. Write out what is worrying you about the project, its deadline, etc. Put on paper the thoughts that are swirling through your head. Once captured in that manner, they may leave your brain alone for a few hours. It also helps to be organized, so you can reassure yourself that you have a plan. Then there is the dreaded 3 or 4 am wake up, where all the thoughts can come rushing back in, preventing sleep for the next hour or perhaps even for the rest of the night. I have found that body scan meditation is helpful at these times. I am not always successful, and these methods won’t work for everyone. The key is, like I said before, experimenting to find methods that work, and practicing the ones that show promise.
- NGRhodes 2y agoI'm surprised the article did not mention speaking to a doctor about the possibility of underlying medical conditions (physical/mental health/neurological), if all suggestions fail.
- DrillShopper 2y agoI'm not. I have "good" insurance in the States and I still had to pay $700 out of pocket for a sleep study and another $750 to rent a CPAP that my insurance company demanded nightly uploaded logs from.
- bdangubic 2y agoexactly… speaking to a doctor eliminates 97.34% of all readers
- Schiendelman 2y agoThat is not good insurance.
- DrillShopper 2y agoIt's good by the standards of the US - low deductible, broad prescription coverage, no need to get a referral to see a specialist, and low/no copay for normal doctor visits.
- Schiendelman 2y agoThat's literally any PPO post ACA. The story above makes it not good insurance.
- throw24111 2y agoI regularly go to sleep at around 6 am, when the sun starts coming up, and wake up at around 2 / 3 pm. It doesn't matter where I am, or the time of the year. That's my natural bed time.
- baw-bag 2y agoThat is unfortunate. Mine is 2am and it has been that way for 3 decades. It is a pain in the ass because I only sleep well at the weekend but then my mornings are gone and family give no end of grief about being lazy. 6am is a whole new ball game. Not sure how I could deal with that.
- ricksunny 2y agoI appreciate that a lot. I'm generally sleeping 4:30am-12:30pm. Recent travel puts me at 10:30pm-6:30am which I'm trying to artificially maintain for a month. I'm sorry that you felt you had to create a throwaway account to post what you did, it's telling about the prejudices that circadian-divergent people (my term, mostly called DSPS) face in society. (e.g. parallel response talking about being called lazy by family). I try hard to locate myself in places (time zones) where I can exploit 'circadian arbitrage'. Remote work is the big enabler, and I consciously work to help folks maintain & expand the remote work ecosystem's momentum.
- em-bee 2y agothe funny thing is that because of such sleep times i never had a problem with jetlag. if i am forced to get up early and work all day then i can also get to sleep earlier. the issue though is that since i have kids, i only get time for myself, eg to watch tv or a movie after the rest of the family is asleep, thus pushing my bedtime again back late into the night. i haven't found a way to solve that without completely giving up watching tv. (and i don't watch much to begin with. 1-2 hours per day)
- thirdacc 2y agoWhat do you do for a living? That's my natural schedule too. Flexible dev jobs are not as common as I was led to believe, and this has affected my life deeply.
- lotophage 2y agoI didn't know that "revenge bedtime procrastination" was a term but it definitely describes me. I have to set an alarm for bedtime, but I still struggle with being disciplined about it.
- lazyeye 2y agoOne thing I've done is create a "color clock" using a smart bulb that changes color based on a daily schedule. So at 8:00pm the bulb has a dim orange glow, this changes to dim red glow at 9pm and then turns off at 10pm (sleep time). Its a really nice relaxing way of ensuring a regular sleep pattern (no longer clock watching etc).
- edem 2y agohow did you make it?
- lazyeye 2y agoI have a Philips Hue bridge plus Hue smart bulb. The Hue system has an "Automations" function you can configure via their phone app. So I just created a set of custom automations to change the bulb color on a set daily schedule. There are lots of other ways of doing this depending on your setup. I think you could probably use IFTTT or Zapier to do the same thing with other brands of smart bulb.
- lotophage 2y agoThat's a great idea! I'm kicking myself for not thinking of it because I did the opposite for my toddler to let him know when it was okay to get up in the morning (otherwise he'd be up before 5am). I had a dim red as a whole room nightlight that transitioned to dim yellow-green to signal that is was now okay to get up.
- jerrygoyal 2y agoHere's a method that worked for me and i am able to consistently fall asleep within 15 minutes or less: Direct your attention to sleep. Whenever you go to bed and notice yourself actively thinking about something just direct that attention back to sleep. Think about it, it's the attention that keeps you awake. Note that 'actively thinking' is different than mind-wandering which is passive and actually helps in falling asleep. This will be difficult initially but you will get better over time at controlling attention. This is because attention is like a muscle so you need to train over time. I have been doing this for months and it works.
- dqv 2y agoI think for a lot of us that directs us to actively think about sleep instead of actually directing our attention toward sleep. My strategy is to try to jumpstart the memory reconciliation process, which is kind of a passive way of directing my attention toward sleep. It basically just recounting the day from the beginning when I woke up and tracing back to the current moment. It does cause my mind to wander and sometimes be too active, but if I notice that, I will just start restart the recounting process. I think this might also be what makes journaling so useful - memory and thought reconciliation.
- vasco 2y ago[dead]
- blendo 2y agoI used to try and stare at the inside of my eyelids, as if looking at a TV screen. It seemed like once images started to appear, while my eyes were closed, my brain began to think it was dreaming and just gave up on being awake :-)
- JoeyJoJoJr 2y agoThis is exactly what I do and it seems to be the most effective method I have found. It helps to get me out of whatever rumination I am having and into a more mindful state.
- 2y ago
- amanbolat_com 2y agoI just go to GitHub and read random project's code, it makes me sleepy in 5 mins.
- presspot 2y agoI just go to HN and read the comments.
- plg 2y agoget up earlier seriously though after I started getting up every single day without fail at 6:00 am, no matter what happened the day before, no matter what’s on my schedule today, ever since I have had no trouble whatsoever ever falling asleep. Usually by 9:30 pm I am feeling v sleepy and by 10 pm I cannot help but lie down and close my eyes. The only thing that modulates this is caffeine. No caffeine after 2:00 pm otherwise I may be up until 11:00 pm even midnight. but even then, wake at 6:00 am the next day without fail, that was the magic bullet for me all this stuff about bedtime routines, warm bath, soft lighting, etc, seems funny to me - like I said by 9:30 pm and certainly by 10:00 pm I cannot help but lie down and close my eyes, I don’t need any enticements.
- Brajeshwar 2y agoWell, to wake up earlier, one needs to sleep earlier.
- WildGreenLeave 2y agoYou don't _have_ to, I think previous commenter means that after a few days of feeling tired and groggy you will be tired earlier in the evening and go to bed earlier.
- BoiledCabbage 2y ago> Well, to wake up earlier, one needs to sleep earlier. Why?
- znpy 2y agoBecause if you don’t you’re going to regret it. Been there, done that, it’s torture. Quite literally, sleep deprivation is a form of torture. Waking up super early without having a decent amount of time is just another form if self harm.
- exe34 2y agoi think the idea isn't to sleep late and wake up early consistently. instead it's about waking up at the exact same time everyday, no matter how late you went to bed the previous night for reasons inside/outside your control. the expectation is that the next night you'll feel sleepy earlier and catch up. in contrast, walking up late one day because you slept late the previous night will wreak havoc. I'm only trying to clarify this because it works the same way for me.
- wkjagt 2y agoFor me it's, in no particular order: - Shower before bed. Going to bed clean feels so much better. - No programming just before sleep - A cold-ish bedroom - Read before sleep (a novel, not HN). - As little light as possible in the bedroom
- robg 2y agoNeuroscientist here, been teaching my kids since they were really little to power down: lights off, slower and slower breathing, time to say goodnight to our adventures and thoughts as we’ll have more tomorrow. They are consistently asleep by 7-ish. Curious if anyone here was taught how to fall asleep by their parents or school? We teach our kids so much, but we don’t seem to teach the importance of sleep as well as we teach the importance of brushing your teeth or nutrition.
- Brajeshwar 2y agoI'm just an average person here, but I teach my kids to have a wind-down routine that is very similar to my own—making a quick plan for tomorrow, reading something, being bored, or starting lying down in bed, telling/listening to stories. Definitely no devices or anything that has an LED light or produces sounds in the bedroom. If you have a work/study laptop/computer in the bedroom, start winding down and let it sleep.
- bamboozled 2y ago[flagged]
- remram 2y ago> I don't fall asleep that easy So your anecdata doesn't even contradict the point? Really puzzled by this reply.
- bamboozled 2y agoI’m just being honest. Maybe the blue light is what makes me need to listen to a podcast to sleep but I have no scientific evidence to say it’s the reason for it. From what I have read the blue light is supposed to stop deeper sleep occurring. I just don’t think this is the case based on the stats from my Apple Watch. I get plenty of REM. Stress and the need to want to have some me time is the greater reason for me not wanting to sleep.
- black_13 2y ago[dead]
- benbojangles 2y agoGeneric article, which does nothing to address biological, environmental, and many many other factors.
- kodt 2y agoHaving young children is conveniently not mentioned.
- IAmGraydon 2y agoI used to stay up until around 1am every night. I found it very easy to fix this - I now go to the gym at 5:30am. Within a couple of weeks I found it very easy to go to sleep at 10pm or earlier. It’s more than just getting up early - you’re telling your body you need it to be ready to perform early in the morning. Just like a muscle grows when you demand more of it, I think this sets off an adaptive reaction that results in earlier and easier sleep.
- Etheryte 2y agoOkay, but now you're going to the gym at 5:30 in the morning. For everyone who isn't an early bird, that's literal torture. In other words, it's nice if that works for you, but this is not really generalizable.
- sokoloff 2y agoI was a big time night owl before we had kids. Now, I get up without an alarm around 5-5:30 most days and am able to fall asleep around 10. I don’t mind the change at all and don’t think it’s impossible for most people to habituate themselves to a different schedule.
- IAmGraydon 2y agoGoing to the gym at 5:30am is torture for everyone. I’m not some weirdo who enjoys getting out of my warm bed and going out into the cold and dark to pick up weights. I do it precisely because it’s hard. The workout that happens in the gym is great, but the real workout happens in my head every time I have to tell myself to get up and go.
- marcus0x62 2y agoI'm not an early bird. I work out with a group at start times between 4:45 and 5:45 AM five days a week. Most of the other people I work out with are also not early birds. We workout early in the morning because that is the only time of day where we don't have other demands on our time. Nobody is being tortured (literally or figuratively) and it is highly generalizable.
- 2y ago
- philippta 2y agoBut I don’t want my free time to end.
- TeMPOraL 2y agoThis! 23:00 is when my free time starts.
- twoodfin 2y agoFWIW, “sleepfoundation.org” is owned by Sleep Doctor, and is essentially a sales funnel to sell CPAP machines and other sleep-related therapy. Nothing wrong with that, but it’s at least a little shady to present themselves this way. A Sleep Doctor brand, SleepFoundation.org was acquired from the National Sleep Foundation in 2019 and is no longer affiliated with the non-profit organization. The National Sleep Foundation is an independent, 501(c)(3) based in Washington, D.C.
- morjom 2y agoNew website for the NSF is thensf.org for those wondering.
- mock-possum 2y agoAw I was expecting the Nintendo sound format :(
- pedalpete 2y agoI've been in the sleep industry for almost 5 years, and I never knew this. Wow!! Thanks for opening my eyes. I assumed it was some publicly funded body.
- counternotions 2y agoHuh, how did a mattress review website stuffed with affiliate links make it on HN?
- scotty79 2y ago1. abstain from coffee and tea for 3 weeks 2. wake up at desired hour using alarm clock and drink one coffee 3. don't fall asleep before your desired hour of going to bed 4. rince an repeat until the alarm clock is no longer needed 5. Never drink coffee or tea again unless it's just one after waking up timely (not late)
- jakupovic 2y agoThis is my hack and your millage* may vary. Lately I close my eyes and scan via eyeballs for a light point and focus on it as much as I can, not sure how others perceive this. Obviously with eyes closed you cannot see anything so maybe I imagine this point, but in any case it makes me fall asleep instantly. Hopefully that makes sense ...
- senectus1 2y agosince i started working bakers hours at about age 16 I have had to force myself to sleep on demand. many decades later (now I'm a white collar 9-5er) I can still do it. It realy is just a matter of self control. (for me at least)
- pier25 2y agoA couple of years ago I realized sleep is really one of the most important factors for my overall wellbeing. I have an alarm on my phone at 10pm which signals the end of any activity other than reading with my Kindle in bed. It has worked wonders. The first couple of weeks I took 1mg of melatonin which helped my body reset the clock. I fall asleep around 11pm every day and wake up without alarms around 7am. I work at home on my own projects so I don't need a fixed schedule but my body is very happy with this.
- penguin_booze 2y agoIt's not a strict routine, but I sometimes listen to fairy tales from Myths And Legends [0] podcast and put myself to sleep. And I'm supposedly a grown ass adult. #noshame [0] https://www.mythpodcast.com/ https://www.mythpodcast.com/
- seadan83 2y agoSurprised bright morning late not mentioned. Camping usually resets circadian rhythm in as little as 3 days. Bright sun in the morning gets a person up with the birds, no lights at night puts a person to sleep. Artificially, similar can be done: turn on all lights when you get up. After sunset, use minimal light, with as much red hue as possible. The other points I think hold pretty well and also are important: get exercise, avoid caffeine later in the day, etc..
- EasyMark 2y agoThe most important thing for me was to lay down at the same time no matter what, even if I rolled around for 2 hours. Also no stimulants of any sort after 6pm. I stick to the Schedule though, even if it has pissed off some of my friends. If they want me to alleviate it they get me on Friday night, or nothing. I think you have to have a “day off” day for just about everything whether it’s exercise or a diet.
- polishdude20 2y agoI'm 31 and not too long ago have started to wake up at night needing to go pee despite not drinking liquids at least 3-4 hours before bed. What gives? Am I getting old? Is this normal?
- nradov 2y agoUrinating once or maybe twice at night is pretty normal. If you think that something might be wrong then you can get checked by a urologist but most likely they won't find anything worth treating.
- pikrzyszto 2y agoYou may find it beneficial to workout some pelvic floor muscles. It's possible that your muscles got weaker and struggle with doing their job as well as they used to.
- agensaequivocum 2y agoWatch sunrise and sunset. Get lots of sunlight throughout the day. Never wear sunglasses. No lights after sunset, red light or at least blue light blocking glasses after sunset.
- 11235813213455 2y agoWhat works is to sleep outside (bivouac), no artificial light besides maybe your device screens, and nature is an amazing lullaby. When I'm living in an apartment, with neightbors noise and smell, I can't easily sleep before they stop their mess, so near midnight; when outside I sleep soon after the night comes, 19:00 currently. I often wake up super early because of all that excess sleep