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"Israel has also said that UN forces are being used as a human shield by Hizbollah fighters, which it is fighting near several Unifil posts along the border. It

"Israel has also said that UN forces are being used as a human shield by Hizbollah fighters, which it is fighting near several Unifil posts along the border. It has demanded the UN evacuate its peacekeepers from southern Lebanon for their own safety. Unifil, and the 50 countries that contribute troops to its ranks, have unanimously refused." Why aren't the UN troops keeping the peace? Did they let Hezbollah fire rockets into Israel unimpeded? What is the point of the troops being there?

campl3r 2y ago
[flagged]
nielsbot 2y ago
It's all on Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Interim_Force_in_Lebanon https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Interim_Force_i...
pimpampum 2y ago
Israel has lied repeatedly countless times, like the tunnels under hospitals that never show up, or when they say the didn't kill the journalists they did end up admitting to. Or the claims of rape and beheaded babies that were all fake. You can not take anything they say as serious.
- mlazos 2y ago
  I love how their rationale for blowing up a hospital is that there were tunnels underneath it. As if that’s justification for blowing up a hospital.
  - tdeck 2y ago
    Then thre's the time a former Israeli PM admitted they build the "bunker" under Al Shifa. Whoops. If anyone had been paying attention or properly reporting on that, it might have looked bad. https://www.newsweek.com/israel-built-bunker-shifa-hospital-ehud-barak-1845518 https://www.newsweek.com/israel-built-bunker-shifa-hospital-...
  - edanm 2y ago
    Israel hasn't blown up a hospital.
  - tmnvix 2y ago
    They have also been blowing up buildings in Lebanon because they claim that there is Hezbollah money and gold in them. Human life be damned. To all appearances, it looks as if the US is allowing Israel to rewrite the rules of war. This is incredibly dangerous. Whether or not the US supports Israel's objectives should not be the deciding factor in supporting these kinds of justifications.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- Sam713 2y ago
  Not disputing general truthfulness of Israeli government, but specifically as to the latter two examples you listed: A) There is no direct evidence that Israeli government publicly stated that babies were beheaded. That claim came from a single journalist, spread like wildfire on social media (as did tons of videos and footage of the attacks), and was exacerbated by a statement Biden made. B) there is very credible evidence that rape did occur as part of the atrocities Hamas committed on Oct. 7th attack. https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-war-sexual-violence-zaka-ca7905bf9520b1e646f86d72cdf03244 https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-war-sexual-violence-... Just wanted to point that out, because regardless of the moral standing of either side, I think the facts do matter if there is ever going to be a resolution. Obviously the actions committed by Hamas do not absolve Israel from following ethical rules of war, and there are plenty of issues with how Israel is waging war in the current conflict as well; for example using machine learning algorithms to track targets with what appears to be a reckless disregard for non-combatants: https://www.972mag.com/lavender-ai-israeli-army-gaza/ https://www.972mag.com/lavender-ai-israeli-army-gaza/
  - Qem 2y ago
    https://www.oct7factcheck.com/index https://www.oct7factcheck.com/index
    - mysterEFrank 2y ago
      [flagged]
  - Cyph0n 2y ago
    The bigger problem is that these lies spread “like wildfire” via Western media outlets - with zero fact checking or confirmation. These images were then used to justify the rampage in Gaza. As far as I am aware, not a single Western media rag has issued an apology for this. In many of our eyes, never again will they be able to claim credibility or professionalism in their reporting. In addition, Western rags took Israeli statements as gospel, platformed way more guests from the Israeli side, and intensively questioned all pro-Palestine guests on their position on Oct 7 (while treating Israeli guests with more respect than necessary for a media interview). It’s better now - but that’s easy to do after a year of atrocities and 100k+ deaths. In the US at least, there still is a clear bias against inviting Palestinians on primetime slots, or allowing Palestinians to operate freely within news organizations.
- tdeck 2y ago
  Don't forget that it's been extensively documented that Israel uses human shields: https://www.cnn.com/2024/10/24/middleeast/palestinians-human-shields-israel-military-gaza-intl/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2024/10/24/middleeast/palestinians-human... https://www.btselem.org/topic/human_shields https://www.btselem.org/topic/human_shields Even the NYT took time away from repeating Israel's lies to report on it! https://www.nytimes.com/2024/10/14/world/middleeast/israel-gaza-military-human-shields.html https://www.nytimes.com/2024/10/14/world/middleeast/israel-g...
- AtlasBarfed 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - mardifoufs 2y ago
    [flagged]
    - shiroiushi 2y ago
      >And what oil money exactly? He's probably referring to how Iran props up these places, and Iran's main source of funding is oil.
      - mardifoufs 2y ago
        Nope, Iran does not really prop up Palestinians. Maybe Saudi Arabia and their donations sure but Iran does not fund more than military assets, and mostly in Lebanon
sterlind 2y ago
Unifil has been there since the '70s, apparently. Their role was to monitor Israel's withdrawal and to assist the Lebanese government, to patrol the Blue Line and various humanitarian tasks. They're not a counterinsurgency force or an occupying army - as I understand it, they're a tripwire for treaty enforcement. Also, you don't get to shoot through human shields. It's still immoral to kill noncombatants, just as it's immoral to hide behind noncombatants. You don't gain moral high ground, you're just sinking to the level of the enemy.
- tyleo 2y ago
  “You don’t get to shoot through human shields.” I don’t have a POV w.r.t. this conflict, but I’d like to understand what you mean by this statement generally. In the extreme it seems to imply, “if you have a human shield you are invincible.” It’s a messed-up calculus to have to make but I feel like there must be some middle ground.
  - g-b-r 2y ago
    In extreme situations it might be acceptable to involve innocents, but that's a very far cry from what has been happening
    - Sabinus 2y ago
      [flagged]
      - tdeck 2y ago
        Wait till you find out where the mossad HQ is located!
        lowkey_ 2y ago
        It's a fair target to hit then — on both sides, military operations are fair to hit. It just hasn't happened to the Mossad HQ, despite attempts.
NomDePlum 2y ago
There's absolutely no evidence of UN forces being used as human shields. There's clear evidence, including that cited in the article, of the situation being very different from the claims/report of the IDF. The most credible reason for Israel wanting Unfil to vacate is less impartial observers.
- dragonwriter 2y ago
  The most credible reason for Israel to want UNIFIL to vacate is that UNIFIL’s mission is to help keep unauthorized military forces out of South Lebanon, and Israel’s invasion force is decidedly unauthorized.
  - Qem 2y ago
    Given they targeted observation posts and monitoring cameras first, I suspect they don't want witnesses observing war crimes. Local witnesses are outright killed or smeared with accusations of belonging to militant groups, as it's being done to journalists in Gaza. They just put targets on the backs of the few surviving journalists that are still documenting the siege of northern Gaza. See: https://www.aljazeera.com/program/inside-story/2024/10/24/why-is-israel-targeting-al-jazeera-correspondents-in-gaza https://www.aljazeera.com/program/inside-story/2024/10/24/wh... That trick is harder to pull when the witnesses are external UN observers.
  - zajio1am 2y ago
    Well, UNIFIL for the last twenty years pretty much ignored the other unauthorized military force in southern Lebanon, Hezbollah, so why they should care about IDF?
    - SauciestGNU 2y ago
      Hezbollah is part of the elected government within the in internationally recognized borders of Lebanon. It might be illegal for them to fire at Israel, but it's not illegal for them to be present. It is illegal for Israel to be present within Lebanon's borders.
justin66 2y ago
> Why aren't the UN troops keeping the peace? They're basically observers when there are any other armed troops present. They have small arms, everybody else has rockets, missiles, or tanks.
- sangnoir 2y ago
  UN peacekeeper should be treated as civilians - even when armed.
- wtcactus 2y ago
  Why are they there then? Seems they are willingly serving as human shields to prevent Israel from retaliating against Hezbollah attacks.
  - justin66 2y ago
    Judging from your other comments it seems you’ve bought into the narrative that anyone who would ordinarily be protected by the laws of war is not when their presence inconveniences the IDF. I don’t think I can help you.
sangnoir 2y ago
> What is the point of the troops being there? Let's assume they are completely useless at peacekeeping - does this justify them being attacked?
mr_toad 2y ago
> Why aren't the UN troops keeping the peace? They’re outnumbered by 10:1.
- Sabinus 2y ago
  By Hezbollah?
o999 2y ago
"Israel has also said.." Come on..!?

campl3r 2y ago

[flagged]

nielsbot 2y ago

It's all on Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Interim_Force_in_Lebanon https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Interim_Force_i...

pimpampum 2y ago

Israel has lied repeatedly countless times, like the tunnels under hospitals that never show up, or when they say the didn't kill the journalists they did end up admitting to. Or the claims of rape and beheaded babies that were all fake. You can not take anything they say as serious.

mlazos 2y ago
I love how their rationale for blowing up a hospital is that there were tunnels underneath it. As if that’s justification for blowing up a hospital.
- tdeck 2y ago
  Then thre's the time a former Israeli PM admitted they build the "bunker" under Al Shifa. Whoops. If anyone had been paying attention or properly reporting on that, it might have looked bad. https://www.newsweek.com/israel-built-bunker-shifa-hospital-ehud-barak-1845518 https://www.newsweek.com/israel-built-bunker-shifa-hospital-...
- edanm 2y ago
  Israel hasn't blown up a hospital.
- tmnvix 2y ago
  They have also been blowing up buildings in Lebanon because they claim that there is Hezbollah money and gold in them. Human life be damned. To all appearances, it looks as if the US is allowing Israel to rewrite the rules of war. This is incredibly dangerous. Whether or not the US supports Israel's objectives should not be the deciding factor in supporting these kinds of justifications.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
Sam713 2y ago
Not disputing general truthfulness of Israeli government, but specifically as to the latter two examples you listed: A) There is no direct evidence that Israeli government publicly stated that babies were beheaded. That claim came from a single journalist, spread like wildfire on social media (as did tons of videos and footage of the attacks), and was exacerbated by a statement Biden made. B) there is very credible evidence that rape did occur as part of the atrocities Hamas committed on Oct. 7th attack. https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-war-sexual-violence-zaka-ca7905bf9520b1e646f86d72cdf03244 https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-war-sexual-violence-... Just wanted to point that out, because regardless of the moral standing of either side, I think the facts do matter if there is ever going to be a resolution. Obviously the actions committed by Hamas do not absolve Israel from following ethical rules of war, and there are plenty of issues with how Israel is waging war in the current conflict as well; for example using machine learning algorithms to track targets with what appears to be a reckless disregard for non-combatants: https://www.972mag.com/lavender-ai-israeli-army-gaza/ https://www.972mag.com/lavender-ai-israeli-army-gaza/
- Qem 2y ago
  https://www.oct7factcheck.com/index https://www.oct7factcheck.com/index
  - mysterEFrank 2y ago
    [flagged]
- Cyph0n 2y ago
  The bigger problem is that these lies spread “like wildfire” via Western media outlets - with zero fact checking or confirmation. These images were then used to justify the rampage in Gaza. As far as I am aware, not a single Western media rag has issued an apology for this. In many of our eyes, never again will they be able to claim credibility or professionalism in their reporting. In addition, Western rags took Israeli statements as gospel, platformed way more guests from the Israeli side, and intensively questioned all pro-Palestine guests on their position on Oct 7 (while treating Israeli guests with more respect than necessary for a media interview). It’s better now - but that’s easy to do after a year of atrocities and 100k+ deaths. In the US at least, there still is a clear bias against inviting Palestinians on primetime slots, or allowing Palestinians to operate freely within news organizations.
tdeck 2y ago
Don't forget that it's been extensively documented that Israel uses human shields: https://www.cnn.com/2024/10/24/middleeast/palestinians-human-shields-israel-military-gaza-intl/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2024/10/24/middleeast/palestinians-human... https://www.btselem.org/topic/human_shields https://www.btselem.org/topic/human_shields Even the NYT took time away from repeating Israel's lies to report on it! https://www.nytimes.com/2024/10/14/world/middleeast/israel-gaza-military-human-shields.html https://www.nytimes.com/2024/10/14/world/middleeast/israel-g...
AtlasBarfed 2y ago
[flagged]
- mardifoufs 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - shiroiushi 2y ago
    >And what oil money exactly? He's probably referring to how Iran props up these places, and Iran's main source of funding is oil.
    - mardifoufs 2y ago
      Nope, Iran does not really prop up Palestinians. Maybe Saudi Arabia and their donations sure but Iran does not fund more than military assets, and mostly in Lebanon

sterlind 2y ago

Unifil has been there since the '70s, apparently. Their role was to monitor Israel's withdrawal and to assist the Lebanese government, to patrol the Blue Line and various humanitarian tasks. They're not a counterinsurgency force or an occupying army - as I understand it, they're a tripwire for treaty enforcement. Also, you don't get to shoot through human shields. It's still immoral to kill noncombatants, just as it's immoral to hide behind noncombatants. You don't gain moral high ground, you're just sinking to the level of the enemy.

tyleo 2y ago
“You don’t get to shoot through human shields.” I don’t have a POV w.r.t. this conflict, but I’d like to understand what you mean by this statement generally. In the extreme it seems to imply, “if you have a human shield you are invincible.” It’s a messed-up calculus to have to make but I feel like there must be some middle ground.
- g-b-r 2y ago
  In extreme situations it might be acceptable to involve innocents, but that's a very far cry from what has been happening
  - Sabinus 2y ago
    [flagged]
    - tdeck 2y ago
      Wait till you find out where the mossad HQ is located!
      - lowkey_ 2y ago
        It's a fair target to hit then — on both sides, military operations are fair to hit. It just hasn't happened to the Mossad HQ, despite attempts.

NomDePlum 2y ago

There's absolutely no evidence of UN forces being used as human shields. There's clear evidence, including that cited in the article, of the situation being very different from the claims/report of the IDF. The most credible reason for Israel wanting Unfil to vacate is less impartial observers.

dragonwriter 2y ago
The most credible reason for Israel to want UNIFIL to vacate is that UNIFIL’s mission is to help keep unauthorized military forces out of South Lebanon, and Israel’s invasion force is decidedly unauthorized.
- Qem 2y ago
  Given they targeted observation posts and monitoring cameras first, I suspect they don't want witnesses observing war crimes. Local witnesses are outright killed or smeared with accusations of belonging to militant groups, as it's being done to journalists in Gaza. They just put targets on the backs of the few surviving journalists that are still documenting the siege of northern Gaza. See: https://www.aljazeera.com/program/inside-story/2024/10/24/why-is-israel-targeting-al-jazeera-correspondents-in-gaza https://www.aljazeera.com/program/inside-story/2024/10/24/wh... That trick is harder to pull when the witnesses are external UN observers.
- zajio1am 2y ago
  Well, UNIFIL for the last twenty years pretty much ignored the other unauthorized military force in southern Lebanon, Hezbollah, so why they should care about IDF?
  - SauciestGNU 2y ago
    Hezbollah is part of the elected government within the in internationally recognized borders of Lebanon. It might be illegal for them to fire at Israel, but it's not illegal for them to be present. It is illegal for Israel to be present within Lebanon's borders.

justin66 2y ago

> Why aren't the UN troops keeping the peace? They're basically observers when there are any other armed troops present. They have small arms, everybody else has rockets, missiles, or tanks.

sangnoir 2y ago
UN peacekeeper should be treated as civilians - even when armed.
wtcactus 2y ago
Why are they there then? Seems they are willingly serving as human shields to prevent Israel from retaliating against Hezbollah attacks.
- justin66 2y ago
  Judging from your other comments it seems you’ve bought into the narrative that anyone who would ordinarily be protected by the laws of war is not when their presence inconveniences the IDF. I don’t think I can help you.

sangnoir 2y ago

> What is the point of the troops being there? Let's assume they are completely useless at peacekeeping - does this justify them being attacked?

mr_toad 2y ago

> Why aren't the UN troops keeping the peace? They’re outnumbered by 10:1.

Sabinus 2y ago
By Hezbollah?

o999 2y ago

"Israel has also said.." Come on..!?