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Huawei makes divorce from Android official with HarmonyOS NEXT launch
- pkphilip 2y agoI think it is good that we have a non-Google, non-Apple OS for mobile phones out there though I am guessing that the surveillance state will be in full operation in Harmony OS as well.
- philistine 2y agoThe reason Huawei has a distinct non-Google Android flavour poisons the whole endeavour. Huawei is registered on the US Entity List. You can have the surveillance gulag of Google, or the surveillance gulag of the CCP. Pick your poison.
- SapporoChris 2y agohttps://grapheneos.org/ https://grapheneos.org/ Which has it's own set of issues, but there are choices.
- throwaway918299 2y agoI am way too much of a small fry for the CCP to give a single fuck about me. Google, on the other hand, can have a massive influence on my day to day life.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- 81726251617 2y ago[dead]
- snvzz 2y agoNotably, this is a microkernel, multiserver operating system[0]. 0. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HarmonyOS_NEXT https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HarmonyOS_NEXT
- markus_zhang 2y agoLooks like a whole new OS to find exploitation for. Interesting.
- ChocolateGod 2y agoI find it interesting how Huawei was able to make a nearly brand new microkernel operating system in a short amount of time, meanwhile Google with Fuchsia... Despite it being Huawei, I am interested to see how well the OS plans out.
- pjmlp 2y agoThat is a good example of how politics are much more relevant than technical achivements, and anyone that dispels technology based on failure to gather mainstream adoption is lacking the whole picture.
- rfoo 2y agoHonestly, I think Fuchsia was fine, there's just no reason to deploy it yet.
- grishka 2y agoDidn't Google deploy it to some of its smart speaker devices a while ago tho?
- pjmlp 2y agoYes, https://9to5google.com/2024/03/01/fuchsia-16-nest-hub-whats-new/ https://9to5google.com/2024/03/01/fuchsia-16-nest-hub-whats-... However it is quite clear by now, this is the best Fuschia will ever get, and it is mostly a top level software engineer retention program.
- ChocolateGod 2y agoIt's a shame because Fuchsia would go a long way to solve the Android update mess that's partially caused by how Linux does drivers/kernels for ARM and that Android was never made to have generic updates like desktop operating systems, much of the design stemming from the embedded world it was originally made for.
- DeathArrow 2y ago>Unlike previous iterations of HarmonyOS, HarmonyOS NEXT no longer supports Android apps. That's kind of big, HarmonyOS would not be just another Android flavor anymore. > we're sorry to report that Huawei told us it currently has no plans to offer Harmony OS NEXT outside of China That's to be expected. If you live outside of China and don't know Mandarin, the apps are not usable.
- 082349872349872 2y agothanks; that explains why the en and ru variants of https://developer.huawei.com/consumer/cn/develop/ https://developer.huawei.com/consumer/cn/develop/ have limited information.
- Throw83489i7 2y ago> If you live outside of China and don't know Mandarin Not just that, China has super apps that integrate everything from payments, food delivery, taxi, social media... To single application. Integrating this app directly into OS as a launcher (or shell) kind of makes sense.
- jmclnx 2y agoSounds nice at first until you look to see what places these apps are also linked too in mainland China. But not that it matters in the end considering the chaos the US has where eventually everyone gets to see what we do on our cells to. It is just a matter of speed, China is probably just more efficient.
- numpad0 2y agoAre you sure those everything aren't just bunch of third party janky WebViews, only relevant because of private chat app account moat? ("third party" and "private" parts are relevant, IMO, otherwise Twitter superapp-ification had happened years ago)
- Throw83489i7 2y agoMaybe, but that is just implementation detail. My point is that 3td party apps do not make much sense in China. They are useless without support from super app
- 0xCAP 2y agoVery interesting wikipedia info: Written in: C, C++, JavaScript, ArkTS, Cangjie,[1] Rust, Assembly language and others
- 082349872349872 2y agohttps://developer.huawei.com/consumer/cn/cangjie/ https://developer.huawei.com/consumer/cn/cangjie/ (many alternative natural languages available in the dropdown; none of the ones I tried currently map) Looks algolish. EDIT: according to https://blog.csdn.net/qiushi_1990/article/details/140528431 https://blog.csdn.net/qiushi_1990/article/details/140528431 from 19.07.2024 those are the languages supported for writing apps, not necessarily the implementation language(s) for the μk? > - 多语言开发支持 支持多种语言开发 如ArkTS和C/C++ 进一步提升了应用性能。 EDIT2: https://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/鸿蒙星河版 https://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/鸿蒙星河版 lists C,C++,Java
- 082349872349872 2y agoFrom https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41934156 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41934156 : > The core kernel of HM is implemented primarily in a confined subset of C, consisting of 90k lines of code (LoC), which includes the basic functionalities. All other OS services are decoupled and can be deployed individually, totaling over 1 million LoC. The HM’s build system can assemble the OS services based on detailed configurations specified for various scenarios, such as placing OS services in different isolation classes or coalescing some OS services.
- DeathArrow 2y agoThe os seems to be kind of open source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenHarmony https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenHarmony
- markus_zhang 2y agoFrom my understanding OpenHarmony is different from Harmony NEXT. The later is proprietary.
- Philpax 2y agoI believe Harmony NEXT is built on top of OpenHarmony?
- DeathArrow 2y ago>Huawei hopes to bring its OS to PCs, too. Last month the chair of the Chinese giant's consumer business group, Yu Chengdong, revealed it would no longer run Windows on its future machines, but Harmony OS instead That is very interesting. And considering that Harmony OS is not based on Android and Linux, I would be curious to see it running on a PC.
- karmakaze 2y agoSeems similar to (though a shortcut version of) Apple sharing mobile and desktop hardware/software tech.
- methuselah_in 2y agoSo you are telling below you have nothing running linux? Lol
- methuselah_in 2y agoAlso before they have something that's code was readable and people can see what the hell backdoors they have put. Now it's home run for surveillance
- peoplefromibiza 2y agoexactly how we can read the MacOS, Windows and all the Google apps code that are bundled with virtually every Android phone, right?
- wiseowise 2y agoExactly how we can read source of Linux distros, GrapheneOS and multitude of other security focused Android forks, right.
- peoplefromibiza 2y agoThanks for your 0.001% solution (which included me when I had a lot of spare time) Now name a brand that sells grapheneOS phones
- ChocolateGod 2y agoIf you live in the west and criticise your government, nothing happens. If you live in China and criticise your government, even in private, you can go missing or end up in a camp
- snapcaster 2y agoThis is very over simplified and glossing over a huge amount of political repression that happens in the west just because it's more sophisticated. Don't fool yourself into thinking you're free because you're not in China. You would realize this the second you go against any powerful interests
- FooBarWidget 2y agoTry telling that to all those people punished for protesting against Gaza genocide. Not to mention Julian Assange.
- csomar 2y ago> Huawei did try to export the last version of the OS – and even offered assistance to developers who coded for the platform and targeted offshore markets – without success. I wonder if they really tried or if they just suck too much. I thought about getting invested into the eco-system. The technical details of NEXT are quite interesting; however, the on-boarding is literal garbage. I still, to this day, can't sign up for a Huawei ID and I am currently located in Asia.
- MichaelZuo 2y agoYou can really see Huawei’s roots as a telecom vendor here. Their hardware, firmware, and core parts of the software are nearly flawless, at least compared to Apple/Google in 2024, but the moment you need something beyond the shipped product it becomes a hoop jumping exercise. And the documentation is much worse.
- csomar 2y agoIndeed. I don't have much technical expertise in the kernel/OS space, but I wouldn't be surprised if the NEXT OS is better than Linux. On the other hand, their dev experience is akin to opening a router paper manual. There is an opportunity here but I am not sure how it can be unlocked.
- rickdeckard 2y ago> I wouldn't be surprised if the NEXT OS is better than Linux. I wouldn't be surprised if it's full of shortcuts with privilege escalations or contradicting exceptions. Not because it's Huawei, but because it's a single company developing BOTH the Operating System and the hardware it is supposed to be deployed in. When it comes to meeting a production deadline of a product, the pressure to apply a quick workaround is much much higher than the pressure to follow a structured process from whatever platform-team. Source: I worked in lots of companies which at some point tried to establish various kinds of frameworks, just to be forced to break them again in order to ship on-time...
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- p0w3n3d 2y ago> Huawei makes divorce from Android official What do I read as a non-native speaker? > Now you can divorce easily using Android phone from Huawei
- amelius 2y agoThe spyware in Chinese phones can make divorce easier, yes.
- Ygg2 2y agoAs opposed to US spyware?
- dartos 2y agoYeah well if you’re in the US you can’t really dodge US spyware, but you can dodge Chinese spyware. Carve out your sovereignty where you can, yknow?
- okasaki 2y agoIf you're in the US you should be dodging US spyware not Chinese spyware, since you're living under US power and laws.
- dartos 2y agoWhy not both? I don’t want china knowing about me any more than I want the US knowing about. It’s harder to dodge US spying when every other traffic light has network connected cameras on them… and I pay taxes… there’s no dodging it. It’s much easier to not buy Chinese spyware phones.
- okasaki 2y agoHow many laws does the US have, and are you 100% sure you haven't broken any ever?
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- maelito 2y agoThe more incompatible mobile OSes, the more the Web will come back. Cool.
- Neil44 2y agoThe article doesn't mention but it seems pretty relevant, Google kicked them from having the Play store etc on their phones a little while back as a result of political pressure so there's really no reason for them to care about Android any more.
- lawgimenez 2y agoI own a Huawei tablet and yes there is no Play Store. The Huawei app store also will link you to several third party sketchy apk stores.
- llm_nerd 2y agoThe article explicitly cites it in the second last paragraph. It was a bit more than political pressure, though: Huawei was added to the entity list and it would be a crime for US companies or citizens to do business with them.
- MichaelZuo 2y agoThat’s clearly not the case though? A lot of Huawei gear is still installed and operating, as of today, in US telecom networks. Even the pentagon is contracting with many companies using Huawei gear.
- GTP 2y agoI guess it is a crime from the date they were added to the list, but not a crime to keep using devices purchased earlier.
- rickdeckard 2y agoUsage of their equipment is one thing, technology export to a blacklisted company is another. The telecom providers arguably put quite some pressure to maintain such a distinction, since they purchased and paid for said equipment. But for i.e. Google it would have been a crime to provide dedicated technology access (early-access code, Google Services, etc.) for Huawei to then integrate into their products.
- poszlem 2y agoThere is a saying in Eastern Europe that the biggest driver of innovation is American sanctions. This seems to be the case here.
- dragonelite 2y agoI would be more interested in a OpenHarmony Desktop version. If it picks up on mainland and Asia in general it would be a proper 3rd desktop OS.
- komali2 2y ago3rd desktop os? There are many more than 2 desktop oss already, am I misunderstanding you?
- moe_sc 2y agoI guess they mean proper as in significant marketshare.
- dragonelite 2y agoI meant this proper as in significant marketshare.
- wongarsu 2y agoThere are only two kernel architectures in use though: Unix-derived and Windows. This could make for a very different new entry
- TeaBrain 2y agoI haven't seen anything to suggest that the new Huawei OS will use a unique kernel architecture.
- 082349872349872 2y agoa microkernel is already different to linux. the top answer on https://www.zhihu.com/question/640078375/answer/3367442919 https://www.zhihu.com/question/640078375/answer/3367442919 suggests it was based on the Minix 3 μk, but the bottom answer claims it's greenfield development. (someone who cares more than I do could buy one of the devices listed in the middle answer and enlighten us as to what's on it?) EDIT: looks not-minixy to me, according to Huawei's OSDI slides: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41934156 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41934156
- ak_111 2y agoI wonder the cost to Microsoft if there is a rigorous political effort by the CCP to move all Chinese desktop consumption away from Windows and Office Suite to open source (local) alternatives.
- jokoon 2y agoThat's a cost to microsoft, sure, but probably a much bigger cost to china. I like Linux, but porting a country's software on linux is no trivial task.
- pjmlp 2y agoThen have been at it for a while now, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Flag_Linux https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Flag_Linux Also maybe EU should start thinking in better supporting SuSE or something like that.
- Throw83489i7 2y agoA lot Chinese software was created for Windows XP or Win7. Keeping such software running on modern windows can be quite expensive. Many of them do not even have legal windows license. Add security concerns... What happens if windows activation server goes down? Or Microsoft pushes some hostile patch? Today, Linux with Wine can be the easiest way to run old windows software.
- blackoil 2y agoThat is the beauty of web. Most end users now interact via web. They have popular alternative to Office, teams, slack etc. So even if 40-70% of corporate computers can be moved out it's still big.
- rfoo 2y agoChina has been doing this for a while already. Not only porting a country's software on Linux, they are also porting to their own platforms. [1] [2] [3] [4] Currently it's full of rough edges and barely (if at all) works. But I do believe it's going to happen. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loongson https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loongson [2] https://www.phytium.com.cn/homepage/production/15/ https://www.phytium.com.cn/homepage/production/15/ (Chinese-only) [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunway_(processor) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunway_(processor) [4] https://www.tomshardware.com/pc-components/cpus/huawei-brings-sanctions-busting-kirin-9000c-cpu-to-desktop-pcs-to-replace-banned-intel-alder-lake-chips https://www.tomshardware.com/pc-components/cpus/huawei-bring...
- kotaKat 2y agoHey, Tim Sweeney now has a third platform he can put the Epic Games Store and Fortnite on! ... except I bet we'll never see either of those come to HarmonyOS.
- spacebanana7 2y agoHis friends at Tencent might have the desire and capability to do so. If I were a CCP official I'd even relax some video game regulations when played on HarmonyOS to increase adoption. Under the guise of it having more 'safety' features or something like that.
- projektfu 2y agoIt seems like Chinese app developers will want some sort of middle layer that they write to in order to get compatibility. Obviously, a lot of developers currently use cross-platform toolkits, but it's unclear how well the popular ones will support something that is strictly for the Chinese market.
- pjmlp 2y agoThe irony of blocking technology is that when the blocked ones are big enough, eventually this isn't a problem, and it will only weaken the position of the blockers, as their influence gets reduced. And who knows, maybe this is the seredepity point to end US monopoly on mobile OSes.
- joemazerino 2y agoHuawei's innovations are shadowed by its deep corruption and ties with the CCP. Chinese activists have been targeted and had their apps repacked and resigned by Huawei without notification. Google isn't an Angel but I'll take the skynet we know vs the skynet we don't.
- nsonha 2y agoIs it a new Linux distro (cool) or just another android fork that... can't run android apps (lame)?
- sub7 2y agoHate to see this but Chinese phones have been better than US phones for almost half a decade now. They may have started with stolen IP, but they're actually just ahead now - thinner, faster, lighter, better. This applies to hardware, but their software isn't bad either - 15 years in most phone OS are kind of the same shit with only minor differences. But sure Google, Apple, Microsoft keep trying to sell us shitty services for your balance sheet and ignoring what got you dominant i.e. building great products.