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Meta fires staff for 'using free meal vouchers to buy household goods'
- jayantbhawal 2y agoDescription: Facebook and Instagram owner reportedly dismisses about 24 workers for abusing $25 meal credit system
- Joker_vD 2y agoIs it really an abuse? Oh no, he used meal credits to buy toothpaste and tea instead of food, so... what? It really irks me that this level of pettiness comes from the corporation that itself uses every single tax "optimization" scheme on earth (and also probably invented a couple). Apparently, quod licet Metae non licet famulo. This really is just a small monetary enhancement to one's wage, not a "we ration out your approved caloric intake separately; do not mess with its accounting — or else" system (although it seems Meta really would like to treat it like that).
- xghedrr 2y ago“Is it really an abuse? Oh no, he used meal credits to buy toothpaste and tea instead of food” Yes. This is called fraud. Even if you feel mega corp X is bad, defrauding mega corp X is… also bad.
- Joker_vD 2y agoIn what way the mega corp X is defrauded here, exactly? The sibling comment explains that arguably the IRS can be considered defrauded in this case, but the mega corp itself?
- s1artibartfast 2y agoHow is it not? There was permission to take and use company money for X purposes, employees took and used money for Y purposes. It is no different than using my company expense card to book a family trip to Hawaii.
- consteval 2y agoSo then it must be a better outcome if you buy the maximum allowed amount of food, 70 dollars, and then throw it away? Better yet, buy that food, attempt to pawn it off, and then buy toothpaste. To me, that feels like a much worse outcome, not a better one. I think this demonstrates you need some leniency in these things. Because pettiness breeds pettiness.
- tzs 2y agoHow about using it each day for the food that you actually eat that day? That's generally the point of meal allowances.
- consteval 2y agoI'm not speaking to the point - I'm speaking to right and wrong. If it's wrong to use it on a tube of toothpaste because that's stealing, then it must surely be right to instead buy the maximum food and throw it away. Therefore, people should do that. If that sounds wrong to you, then the initial assumption might not be correct. Maybe it's not so bad to buy the tube of toothpaste. Constraining yourself to extremely hard and fast rules seems like a good idea on the surface. But it's all about incentives. I can easily make the company bleed much more money while being within their rules. So why even bother? A touch of leniency and common sense goes a long way.
- s1artibartfast 2y ago>If it's wrong to use it on a tube of toothpaste because that's stealing, then it must surely be right to instead buy the maximum food and throw it away. That makes no sense, One does not imply the other I have a business card with a limit of $5k for buying work materials. I might get forgiveness if the materials ended up being wasted. That doesn't mean it acceptable to use my business card to go to Disneyland, or that it is "Right" to use it for wasteful purchases. Zero sympathy for thieves
- consteval 2y ago
- mikeocool 2y ago> This really is just a small monetary enhancement to one's wage The IRS doesn’t view it that way — if people were just given an extra $70 a day for expenses not related to their job, it would typically to be taxed as compensation. If they allowed this to happen unchecked and lots of people started doing it, the headline would be “Meta facilitates tax avoidance scheme for employees making $400k”
- treesknees 2y agoThis is my feeling as well. I've gone through a lot of grief on expense reports at my company for things like not reporting the tax on a hotel room or tip on a meal receipt separately from everything else. It's not as simple as $25, at least from an accounting perspective.
- JohnFen 2y agoThe expense report minefield is real. It's why I developed the habit decades ago of not expensing anything unless it's actually expensive. It's too much hassle and risk.
- shagie 2y agoThe relevant IRS document is https://www.irs.gov/publications/p15b#en_US_2024_publink1000193706 https://www.irs.gov/publications/p15b#en_US_2024_publink1000... The relevant section is on De Minimis Meals.
- lopkeny12ko 2y agoWhy does it matter? He violated company policy, which has consequences, regardless of how minor of an infraction you might personally feel it is.
- echoangle 2y ago> That included one unnamed worker on a $400,000 salary, who said they had used their meal credits to buy household goods and groceries such as toothpaste and tea. I bet that was really worth it...
- tyleo 2y agoSeems like a bad exchange for both the employee and the company. TBH I feel Meta could have just ended the program for these folks rather than flat out firing them.
- chachacharge 2y ago[dead]
- bananapub 2y agowhy? they fired them to send a message to the other employees.
- stickfigure 2y agoIf you value these employees so much that you pay them $400k/yr, be careful what message you want to send. My assumption is that this is an excuse to get rid of some employees they didn't want anyway.
- chii 2y ago> be careful what message you want to send. the message is that it didnt matter how much you're paid, you still are under our thumbs, and we can use any excuse to fire you.
- lazide 2y agoOr, clearly, they value the employee in a way they don’t want to pay them $400k. And the fool made it easy for them.
- FirmwareBurner 2y ago
- piyuv 2y agoZuck betted on metaverse being a thing and lost billions on it, that money must come from somewhere
- nox101 2y agoI knew someone who would take company products to lenient stores and "return" them for a refund >:( They worked in PR and had access to samples unquestioned
- Eumenes 2y agoMy startup just fired a remote employee who was using our coworking space stipend to pay for her friends art studio rent. When asked for receipts, they got super defensive and the rest is history. For every person taking advantage of their companies generous perks, there is someone hard working and ethical willing to do that job. FAFO.
- throwaway19972 2y ago[flagged]
- mckn1ght 2y agoThey're speaking relatively. And if you don't know the other side of that coin, consider yourself lucky.
- autonomousErwin 2y agoAren't they just finding a good reason to save 400K/year * how many they fire.
- sybercecurity 2y agoYes, I get the feeling that there were likely other reasons why they wanted the employee gone, but needed a good reason that wouldn't result in a legal complaint.
- mvdtnz 2y agoI doubt they are going to this much effort to get rid of 0.04% of staff.
- farceSpherule 2y agoIt's called forced attrition folks. Same with "Returning to Office." They need to shed workers while avoiding the payment of severance. "Abuse" of perks and expense reports are the first place you look. It's an easy, terminable offense.
- e40 2y agoThis is the exact reason here.
- Rygian 2y agoMeal money in France is credited (either as vouchers or as a separate credit card-like card) that can only be spent either in restaurants, or to spend in supermarkets. Supermarkets are only allowed to sell a limited list of goods that qualify as meal on that credit, the system is directly integrated in the cash register software.
- r00fus 2y agoYeah, agreed - Meta and other corporations are trying to do what is probably best supported by a government program so obviously they run into limits. But trying anything like that here is "socialism".
- itronitron 2y agoAnd here I am wondering why Meta needs a 'government program' for it's employees
- r00fus 2y agoWhy should it be limited to Meta? It benefits restaurants near workplaces and as a local government you want some closeness in location to reduce traffic and to increase spending and thus tax revenue.
- s1artibartfast 2y agoHow is a government program the best way to for someone earning 400k to procure dinner?
- dimgl 2y agoIt's $25... why not just suspend the program? Seems mostly harmless considering they're getting paid $400k a year...
- keybrd-intrrpt 2y agoHow can you keep trusting that person's judgement if this is what they do when given only $25 of responsibility?
- dgan 2y agoI still remember.As clear as day: I bought raw eggs and raw meat with my French equivalent "tickets resto", as well as a couple of beers. I am a horrible person. Granted, I was only being paid 2300€/month at that time. Poor international companies providing me generous perks, and I.. I occupy the position of someone else who would be strictly abiding the rules. I should have been fired on the spot. If only the world were run by law abiding individuals like the ones running those generous companies
- FirmwareBurner 2y agoThere's your mistake. Abusing the rules for personal gain is a privilege reserved for the rich and powerful. The commoners get the rule book thrown at them if they get caught stealing from their lords.
- infamouscow 2y agoMost of these employees believe they're elite, they aren't. The natural aristocrats are unaffected, not because they get away with abusing the system, but because they don't abuse them. One has to be remarkably pathetic and morally bankrupt to abuse this in the first place. Meta is simply correcting their mistake of hiring a fundamentally unqualified peasant.
- ffsm8 2y agoAfter reading your comment multiple times I can confidently state that the best thing about it is that I am still unsure if you're sarcastic, trolling or actually believe that
- FirmwareBurner 2y agoLet me rephrase for you what he meant: "If you steal, don't get caught." The rich and powerful are simply much better at breaking the rules without getting caught, that's how they're rich, while the poor are usually not, that's why they stay poor.
- SanjayMehta 2y agoI found this behaviour at Google fascinating: > The company had also reportedly become more stringent on office supplies including staplers and tape, with staff having to borrow items from their reception desks instead. I’m sure Google can compute the cost of a $400,000/- a year employee traipsing down the hallway to borrow a stapler. Pretty sure the stapler will pay for itself in a few trips.
- lores 2y agoIt happens often in very big companies. I remember multiple trips to different floors of a building to get the requisition form and authorization for a single notebook and pen that in the end cost the company ~$150. Someone has a KPI 'I cut down stationery costs by 12%', what the trade-off costs is someone else's problem entirely.
- qgin 2y agoConditional money is goofy and essentially asking for problems. Either give someone $20 or don’t. Then you don’t have to have an entire investigative department devoted to auditing whether an item has caloric value or not.
- cchance 2y agoagree 100%
- s1artibartfast 2y agoIt is not money with strings attached. It is permission to buy food on the company account. You wouldn't say the same thing about a company credit card.
- lopkeny12ko 2y agoThere is quite a lot of missing context in this story. Meta provides a $25 meal delivery credit for employees in offices that do not serve catered dinner. It is valid only within a specific time window on weekdays, and meals can only be delivered to the office. The offense here is that employees were ordering items other than food, or not actually working at the time of delivery. Like they would order food to the office, go in to grab it, and then leave. Meta's behavior seems quite justified here.
- raincom 2y agoHow does this whole thing works? Can they use the voucher for anything? When I get a grubhub voucher, I can not use it to purchase tooth paste, toilet paper, etc.
- CraigRo 2y agoI had to watch a video about this issue 20 years ago. If the company can't trust you with small amounts of money, they can't trust you at all. I've seen people forfeit bonuses over smaller infractions- the lesson is don't steal small amounts of money
- dontdoxxme 2y agoAnd this is a company people trust with their data, if the employees can’t be held to and meet higher moral standards they shouldn’t be there. …maybe Zuck is exempt though? (https://www.15minutebusinessbooks.com/blog/2019/07/26/you-can-be-unethical-and-still-legal-said-mark-zuckerberg-no-thank-you-mr-zuckerberg/ https://www.15minutebusinessbooks.com/blog/2019/07/26/you-ca...)
- SilverBirch 2y agoWe had this at my company (finance) during covid they had a generous Uber eats offer for food after work hours. Some employees (particularly new grads) realised they could pick the food up as they left or collect the food at the door as they left the office or redirect the order. remember at the time thinking this is stealing pennies when you’re paid incredibly well. Well it wasn’t pennies. HR filtered to find those who claimed thousands and then managed to prove many of them were ordering on days they hadn’t even swiped into the office. Anyway, when HR finally did look into it dozens of people got fired from their $n00,000 job for stealing $5,000 worth of food. Good to fire them, you don’t want to hire people that stupid.
- itronitron 2y agoThey could have boosted morale by offering short cooking classes onsite after work hours. Better food and better interactions among coworkers.
- keybrd-intrrpt 2y agoEvery single tech job I've had has had people like his. I've seen people empty drink refrigerators into duffle bags before the weekend. There was a guy who took dozens of travel-sized deodorants from the bathroom and kept them in his desk (and still didn't use them...) There was someone who would pressure the cafeteria staff for 10 "to-go" meal containers. All highly-paid engineers. Money doesn't buy class
- ryandrake 2y agoIt's incredible how often I've seen this. Same here--every single tech job, there's at least someone who does this. And it's always the same excuse/justification when you see them doing it: "The soda's free, bro! If they didn't want me to take it, they'd put it in a vending machine!"
- walthamstow 2y agoFire a couple dozen people on 400k without severance and you've saved 10m a year. Easy money.