7 ms·

UCLA professor says he's homeless due to low pay

82 points by iancmceachern 2y ago

HeyTomesei 2y ago
What a bogus piece. He's not a Professor --- he's an entry-level Lecturer (started career there a year ago).
yial 2y ago
All ideas of fair pay aside (which I agree that he should get a raise!) I don’t understand how he couldn’t afford $2,500 per month on $70,000 per year. Wouldn’t his take home per month be around $4,000-4,500? Not that it would be easy to live on the remainder necessarily …. But I know I have at one point lived on $2,800 per month while paying $1,200. (In a lower cost of living area ).
- iLoveOncall 2y ago
  > I don’t understand how he couldn’t afford $2,500 per month on $70,000 per year. People are just terrible at personal finance. I have friends that earn $300K that have no savings. I suggest watching the YouTube channel Caleb Hammer if you want to truly understand how easy it is for some people to overspend and go into debt.
- Cordiali 2y ago
  I thought it was a bit odd that he only seems to be considering living in Westwood. I checked out the site referenced, and there's suburbs reasonably close with average rents 30-40% lower than that suburb. That's within a ~45 min. bus ride, according to Google. Also damn, there's even free wifi on some of those buses.
j7ake 2y ago
Technically he’s a lecturer not a professor. Generally lecturers are treated like trash.
switch007 2y ago
(Brit here). I'm not saying it's a huge salary at all but $70k is around $4500/mo after tax. If his rent was $2500, that leaves $2000 for everything else, which doesn't seem to equal homeless? Paycheck to paycheck probably I guess. What am I missing?
- willcipriano 2y ago
  > I’m only being paid $70,000 for this academic year hmm... > ac·a·dem·ic year > the period of the year during which students attend an educational institution, usually from September to June. That's around 100k annualized. Something is rotten in Denmark.
  - switch007 2y ago
    I think that's over-interpreting his words
- orionsbelt 2y ago
  Nothing - American here and 100% agree with you.
- charlieyu1 2y ago
  2500 per month of rent is 30k per year. 70k is just a bit more than twice of that. In UK he won’t even pass credit checks for renting
delichon 2y ago
This is a physicist who could likely make much more in the private sector. That's a compromise I've had to make too. I spend my weekdays doing work that I have little interest in and has less chance of improving the human condition, but it let me buy a house and pay the taxes and fees. If I instead choose to do what I'm interested in I'd be lucky to afford renting a room in someone else's house. I admire the guy for choosing to do more important work and making sacrifices to do it. But I'm not owed a decent salary in return for following my own dreams rather than my employer's dreams. Nobody is.
- avg_dev 2y ago
  Of course you are correct, nobody is ever promised anything like the ability to fulfill their dreams or to live a decent quality of life. But maybe the universities could pay them a living wage for teaching six classes a week.
  - orionsbelt 2y ago
    $70k is a living wage in Los Angeles; he his homeless by choice. To be clear, I’m not saying he is not underpaid. He might need a roommate and to live in a crappy apartment and not in Westwood to make it workable, which does not seem fair for a PhD teaching physics. But it’s not homeless level.
    - cute_boi 2y ago
      People seem to think it is easy to have roommates. My roommates were horrible, they wouldn't clean anything, blast music and always a privacy risks.
      - cafard 2y ago
        For some years I lived in a group house in a close-in suburb of Washington, DC. Some roommates were horrible, for a while I was a horrible roommate. But somehow I got by nine years.
      - stavros 2y ago
andrewmcwatters 2y ago
Man with highly educated background ignores basic economic situation that also affects millions of other people. Slow news day.
- sameoldtune 2y ago
  I expect professors to be homeless too.
- lainga 2y ago
  What solution do you propose? No more UCLA?
  - Muromec 2y ago
    He can grow potatoes and sale contraband wares at the illegal market or immigrate to US and find a good paying job there. Oh wait, I though it was about 90ies in here places again.
- winter_blue 2y ago
  You mean an artificial economic situation that NIMBYs have created by making it nearly impossible to build new homes. It’s not a fair situation from any perspective. NIMBYs are slowly destroying California’s heart, and turning it into a place where only people with a 100k+ (and soon 200k+) income can afford a home.
  - andrewmcwatters 2y ago
    Then leave.
    - hackable_sand 2y ago
      There are other solutions than violence.
- egypturnash 2y ago
  alternatively: this basic economic situation has gotten so fucked up that even a traditionally solid middle-class gig like "professor at moderately prestigious university" can't pay his bills
readingnews 2y ago
I am no astrophysicist, but he notes: “Hi everyone, my name is Daniel, and I’m an astrophysics professor at UCLA. I’m only being paid $70,000 for this academic year,” McKeown says in the video. McKeown, listed as a lecturer on UCLA’s website, says he had to move out of his apartment because he could no longer afford the rent. McKeown says his rent was $2,500 a month. According to RentCafe, the average rent is $3,700 in Westwood. Hrm, I have no idea what his actual situation or bills are. But 70k is not chump change, and 2.5k rent seems "manageable". Lets see, if his is single, that puts tax at 22%. It is probably 30% with state and local, minus SS tax. Lets kick it up to 36%. (70000-(70000*0.36))/12.0=3733.33 Ok he is left with 3733.33-2500=1233.33 a month, that is BRUTAL, but I know people that live on less than that after a home mortgage and car note. Again, I have no idea of his situation. Maybe student loans, maybe a car note, medical expenses, etc, but to state out loud that you have probably 1.2k a month after rent and can not possibly live without _a hundred grand_ extra (what he is trying to raise... which is EIGHT THOUSAND A MONTH EXTRA) seems a bit, I am not sure, overreacting? I am just conflicted about this story. I have really good friends that would do a hulluva lot for a 70k job with a 2.5k rent, but at the same time, it is true we are paying professors (and educators in general) far too little. Is this just to make a statement maybe?
- cute_boi 2y ago
  You haven't done anything extra like insurance, mobile bills, other loans etc... which is also costly. If he is married, has obligations to support parents, you are out of luck.
  - jcranmer 2y ago
    > If he is married If he is married, then his spouse (especially given the marital demographics of people holding advanced degrees) is quite likely also contributing income, and decently likely to be contributing income at least as much as he is. Now married with kids is a different ballgame, but married per se isn't going to be a financial burden.
- mistrial9 2y ago
  his taxes in total are more than thirty six percent in California, and there is no mention of debt service costs.
tw2024101316 2y ago
There are different ways to be homeless (some not very good, and some worse). I don't know how many people have run the simulation in their heads before, but being a university professor is just about the most favorable set of conditions that you could have for a person who is forced into being (or chooses to be) homeless. It doesn't look like low pay is the dispositive cause. This looks like it's cost of housing. I have a simple solution to address housing costs: tax the hell out of rentseeking. We should be shooting for a scenario where, five years out starting from right now, a Schedule E filer who owns additional residential properties where they are not an occupant should only be able to net 10% in 2028 for the same gross in 2023.
mistersquid 2y ago
McKeown should be paid more, without question, but he is a lecturer, not a faculty member. His title and appointment is not as a "Professor". [0] This is due to the hierarchical ranking system of academic institutions. McKeown's qualifications may be the same as his more highly ranked colleagues, but the tiered system which rewards research does not pay as much for lecturers whose primary assignment is to teach. [0] https://www.pa.ucla.edu/lecturers.html#:~:text=physics.ucla.edu-,Daniel%20McKeown,-Lecturer%2C%20Physics%20%26%20Astronomy https://www.pa.ucla.edu/lecturers.html#:~:text=physics.ucla....
- SoftTalker 2y ago
  Yes, lecturer is a low level academic position, using the word "professor" to describe him is inaccurate, even though he has a Ph.D. If he is teaching one class, it likely isn't even a full-time position. Academics are also typically paid a 10-month salary (the "academic year" he mentions), if they teach summer classes that is separate "summer pay." At research universities, part of a professor's salary is also funded by research grant awards they win.
  - rconti 2y ago
    It’s in the article. 6 classes a year, so presumably a 3/3.
    - SoftTalker 2y ago
      Thanks, I did miss that.
    - mistersquid 2y ago
      > It’s in the article. 6 classes a year, so presumably a 3/3. UCLA is on a quarter system, so maybe 2/2/2.
- BobaFloutist 2y ago
  I mean, yeah, that's kind of the problem.
beezle 2y ago
Per smartasset.com: 70K salary in Los Angeles - Gross $5,833/mo, filing single, including federal, state, fica, state disability gives a monthly take home of $4,447 So find it hard to believe he is "homeless", seems to be more by choice. And if the take home after paying rent is still too high, do like most others do - get a roommate to share expenses.
- 65 2y ago
  Yeah, seems obvious getting a roommate would be the answer here. I'm not sure if that's not as culturally acceptable in LA as here in NYC but there are people in their 40s and beyond who have roommates.
  - alephnerd 2y ago
    It's culturally acceptable to get a roommate in LA - especially to live in a neighborhood like Westwood. Furthermore, he could live 20 minutes away in another neighborhood instead of Westwood - which is LA's version of Lower East Side in NYC - and get a 1bdrm for $1800-2400. This is truly out of touch, because so many Los Angelenos have a combined household income at or below $70,000 yet are able to raise families and live a middle class life in LA. This does not mean that lecturer pay shouldn't be increased - lecturers in humanities fields at UCLA get paid WAAAAY worse than $70k, and would fight to get that kind of a salary alone.
jncfhnb 2y ago
This comic has sat in my head for a long time: https://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/college-level-mathematics https://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/college-level-mathematics It’s now outdated, and the numbers are worse
flatline 2y ago
Academia is exploitative. The financial incentives are a symptom of the bigger problem. Is university career training for industry or for an academic track? It is not made clear to people entering the system, and is often murky to everyone years into a degree. There is encouragement for education for its own sake, there’s encouragement for education for a high paying career, and there’s encouragement to merge these two and enter academia in a professional capacity. There’s often a mountain of undischargeable personal debt behind it. What people are typically not told is that financially stable academic positions are either political or hard to come by. It’s like professional sports: you can be a pro and just short of top notch and you’ll be playing in the minors for your career, making pennies. This could take the form of endless low-paying postdoctoral gigs, or the crown prize, an associate professorship with little or no benefits and a salary that just lets you scrape by. In the meantime you are expected to pour your heart and soul into the endeavor. There is some reward in that but it is fleeting, and once you have committed to a career path the momentum to change tracks can be a real obstacle. Academia will suck you dry and demand more. Unless you end up with a tenured position at the end of that, it’s not sustainable unless you have another source of financial backing, like a spouse with a “real job.” The US doesn’t really value education. Those who do are idealistic or exploitative, sometimes both. You’re buying into a deeply dysfunctional system and should at least go into it with eyes open.
- qeternity 2y ago
  > Academia is exploitative. As another commenter noted, this person could likely easily go into the private sector and earn multiples of their salary. Also $70k is smack on for median salaries in LA. This person chooses to work in academia. He is not being exploited. Presumably he finds it more fulfilling to do what he does currently. And good for him. But that’s a luxury. Nothing in life guarantees your dream job and your dream salary.
  - lenkite 2y ago
    Lol at having a home being a luxury for a "dream job" - is this the New American Dream that Americans want the rest of the world to adopt ?
catchcatchcatch 2y ago
He can get another job most scientists need to stock shelves or something puts their phd in perspective
oatmeal1 2y ago
Low pay isn't the problem. There's nowhere $70k shouldn't enable you to afford rent. Setback requirements, and single use & single family zoning are the problem.
- alephnerd 2y ago
  > There's nowhere $70k shouldn't enable you to afford rent You can afford to rent a 1 bedroom on a $70k salary in Los Angeles - not in Westwood (the bougie neighborhood that UCLA is located in), but take the 405 and commute from the Valley.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
rdudek 2y ago
Wonder how much UCLA administrators get paid compared to faculty?
- dekhn 2y ago
  All of UC's pay is online at https://ucannualwage.ucop.edu/wage/ https://ucannualwage.ucop.edu/wage/ If you search for administrator (although dean might be a better term?) you will see folks like the head of the Hammer Musuem, which is affiliated with UCLA, makes gross $437K. Her job title is Academic Administrator VII (the highest level in that job type). Similarly, the Dean for UC Extension (basically a night-school for UC) makes a similar salary. Other Academic Administrator VII make "much less"- all the way down to $26K or even $0. As an anecdote, let me explain how the game is played. I had two different postdoc advisors at Berkeley. Both were tenure-track professors with good publication records. The first one negotiated her own startup package (starting professors get lab money and lab space to get started) and ended up with a small collection of rooms (3) on a crowded floor, with terrible IT infra. She eventually convinced the facilities manager to give her an IT room (nothing quite like watching your advisor waggle her body to get space) and eventually got tenure- 12 years after starting. The second advisor brought a lawyer to his negotiation and secured a full lab space with promises of more, a $1+M startup fund, and a number of other key concessions; he got tenure in 5 more years. The first professor said it was "unseemly" that the second professor had brought a negotiator- but the reality is that the Deans who act as the university representative are quite knowledgeable and seek to bring on faculty for the lowest prices, while paying themselves the excess.
linguae 2y ago
As someone who recently left an industry job to teach full-time at a community college, I have mixed feelings about the situation of this physics lecturer. I don’t want to dismiss the difficulties that many people, including academics, face in the housing market. In places like Los Angeles and Silicon Valley it’s rough for those having to pay market rates for housing unless they have extremely high incomes. However, I feel that the lecturer, who started his position at UCLA last year, didn’t do enough homework regarding academic salaries. $70,000 for a non-tenured lecturer is normal, maybe above average, and in fact there are many tenure-track assistant professors who make about the same. To add, UCLA is in a very expensive area. He will have to compete against well-heeled people who want to live within close proximity to some of the nation’s wealthiest areas, such as Santa Monica and Beverly Hills. A physics lecturer simply can’t compete against Hollywood. In addition, a $70,000 annual salary means that he could qualify for a rental no more than $1944 per month due to the standard 3x the rent requirement a lot of California landlords have. A cursory search on Craigslist shows plenty of one-bedroom apartments in Los Angeles County that are within this budget. Granted, they may not be the nicest complexes in the nicest neighborhoods, and they may require a commute, but the Los Angeles metro area does have extensive public transportation, and nobody goes into academia expecting a luxurious lifestyle on an academic salary. An academic who wants to make serious money needs to take advantage of entrepreneurial opportunities outside the institution. In addition, there are plenty of grad students and postdocs making less than $70,000 who attend schools like UCLA that are in very expensive areas. Once again, I don’t want to dismiss the challenges they have. I myself lived in Santa Cruz County for over a decade and I know firsthand the challenge of being a grad student at UC Santa Cruz dealing with the area’s notoriously difficult housing market. But I have a feeling we’re being withheld useful information about his finances. Does he have massive student loans impacting his budget? Does he have other obligations such as taking care of family members? Why wasn’t he able to take advantage of UCLA’s faculty housing? I just feel that this guy didn’t do enough homework about the realities of being an academic, especially one living in a very expensive area. I’m an academic in Silicon Valley and I’m fully aware of the tradeoffs of choosing this lifestyle over industry. Yes, I’d like a bigger home closer to work, and I have no idea how I’d raise a family (though I’m single now so I don’t need to worry). But at the same time I enjoy the freedom I have in academia; I have far more research freedom as a community college instructor than I did as an industry researcher. I also love teaching and guiding students.
robertlagrant 2y ago
How is he homeless? Can someone break down where that 70k goes? It's about $5.8k/month gross.
OutOfHere 2y ago
He should get the message that they don't need him there. He should quit and get a real job in industry that pays 100-200k. It may require him to move, but not be homeless.
FfejL 2y ago
“Technically, I am homeless. I do not have a place of my own. I’m not on any lease,” he says. That is not 'technically' homeless, or any other kind of homeless. If it was, millions of adults who move back home with their parents would be 'homeless.' Millions of spouses who aren't on the lease or deed would be 'homeless.' Millions of roommates, too -- which is, in fact, what this guy actually is. I sympathize that the guy is in a tough spot, $70k a year is not a lot to live on in LA. But this kind of self-victimization is not helpful, Professor.
dekhn 2y ago
For some reason his videos keep showing up when I watch Youtube Shorts even after I've clicked the various buttons which should suppress them. At some point, people started pointing out the problems in his argument, and he'd... post trolling videos with him responding. And the videos are just static snapshots of twitter exchanges. Any sympathy I had for him disappeared when he started attacking folks making good points.
vinni2 2y ago
It says he is a lecturer. Unfortunately lecturers are not well payed. My understanding is lecturers only teach and don’t bring in research grants. Tenured professors are a different story.
tzs 2y ago
Maybe universities should provide housing for the lower paid teaching staff. In the case of UCLA they have on-campus housing and nearby UCLA-owned apartments for about 13000 people. Let's say they expanded that by 5%. That would be housing for 650 people. They have around 5500 faculty members and 31000 staff members (although both of these numbers vary quite a bit from source to source), but many of the faculty are in research positions not teaching positions. UCLA is usually reports to have a student to teacher ration of around 19:1 and around 45000 students, which would suggest about 2400 teachers, so my proposed 5% housing expansion would let them offer housing to about 1/4 of the teachers. It would probably have be high density housing, much like typical undergraduate housing, but that should be fine. All the people in it would be doing very similar jobs, likely on very similar schedules, and with similar requirements for their home environment. The more similar you are to your neighbors the higher density can go before people want to start killing each other.
- codekisser 2y ago
  My university's dorms suffered from no AC, black mold, cockroaches, and yearly floods. I couldn't imagine if teachers and TAs had to live in such slums in addition to being given such inadequate pay. Providing housing is just treating a symptom - universities should fix this by paying their staff enough so they can even afford rent.
rahimnathwani 2y ago
Here is another perspective, for balance: https://x.com/DrBrianKeating/status/1845528361013231808 https://x.com/DrBrianKeating/status/1845528361013231808
kelavaster 2y ago
Homeless due to not having roommates like college students.. Too bad that he though he was in a higher caste of profession...

82 points by iancmceachern 2y ago

What a bogus piece. He's not a Professor --- he's an entry-level Lecturer (started career there a year ago).

yial 2y ago

All ideas of fair pay aside (which I agree that he should get a raise!) I don’t understand how he couldn’t afford $2,500 per month on $70,000 per year. Wouldn’t his take home per month be around $4,000-4,500? Not that it would be easy to live on the remainder necessarily …. But I know I have at one point lived on $2,800 per month while paying $1,200. (In a lower cost of living area ).

iLoveOncall 2y ago
> I don’t understand how he couldn’t afford $2,500 per month on $70,000 per year. People are just terrible at personal finance. I have friends that earn $300K that have no savings. I suggest watching the YouTube channel Caleb Hammer if you want to truly understand how easy it is for some people to overspend and go into debt.
Cordiali 2y ago
I thought it was a bit odd that he only seems to be considering living in Westwood. I checked out the site referenced, and there's suburbs reasonably close with average rents 30-40% lower than that suburb. That's within a ~45 min. bus ride, according to Google. Also damn, there's even free wifi on some of those buses.

j7ake 2y ago

Technically he’s a lecturer not a professor. Generally lecturers are treated like trash.

switch007 2y ago

(Brit here). I'm not saying it's a huge salary at all but $70k is around $4500/mo after tax. If his rent was $2500, that leaves $2000 for everything else, which doesn't seem to equal homeless? Paycheck to paycheck probably I guess. What am I missing?

willcipriano 2y ago
> I’m only being paid $70,000 for this academic year hmm... > ac·a·dem·ic year > the period of the year during which students attend an educational institution, usually from September to June. That's around 100k annualized. Something is rotten in Denmark.
- switch007 2y ago
  I think that's over-interpreting his words
orionsbelt 2y ago
Nothing - American here and 100% agree with you.
charlieyu1 2y ago
2500 per month of rent is 30k per year. 70k is just a bit more than twice of that. In UK he won’t even pass credit checks for renting

delichon 2y ago

This is a physicist who could likely make much more in the private sector. That's a compromise I've had to make too. I spend my weekdays doing work that I have little interest in and has less chance of improving the human condition, but it let me buy a house and pay the taxes and fees. If I instead choose to do what I'm interested in I'd be lucky to afford renting a room in someone else's house. I admire the guy for choosing to do more important work and making sacrifices to do it. But I'm not owed a decent salary in return for following my own dreams rather than my employer's dreams. Nobody is.

avg_dev 2y ago
Of course you are correct, nobody is ever promised anything like the ability to fulfill their dreams or to live a decent quality of life. But maybe the universities could pay them a living wage for teaching six classes a week.
- orionsbelt 2y ago
  $70k is a living wage in Los Angeles; he his homeless by choice. To be clear, I’m not saying he is not underpaid. He might need a roommate and to live in a crappy apartment and not in Westwood to make it workable, which does not seem fair for a PhD teaching physics. But it’s not homeless level.
  - cute_boi 2y ago
    People seem to think it is easy to have roommates. My roommates were horrible, they wouldn't clean anything, blast music and always a privacy risks.
    - cafard 2y ago
      For some years I lived in a group house in a close-in suburb of Washington, DC. Some roommates were horrible, for a while I was a horrible roommate. But somehow I got by nine years.
    - stavros 2y ago

andrewmcwatters 2y ago

Man with highly educated background ignores basic economic situation that also affects millions of other people. Slow news day.

sameoldtune 2y ago
I expect professors to be homeless too.
lainga 2y ago
What solution do you propose? No more UCLA?
- Muromec 2y ago
  He can grow potatoes and sale contraband wares at the illegal market or immigrate to US and find a good paying job there. Oh wait, I though it was about 90ies in here places again.
winter_blue 2y ago
You mean an artificial economic situation that NIMBYs have created by making it nearly impossible to build new homes. It’s not a fair situation from any perspective. NIMBYs are slowly destroying California’s heart, and turning it into a place where only people with a 100k+ (and soon 200k+) income can afford a home.
- andrewmcwatters 2y ago
  Then leave.
  - hackable_sand 2y ago
    There are other solutions than violence.
egypturnash 2y ago
alternatively: this basic economic situation has gotten so fucked up that even a traditionally solid middle-class gig like "professor at moderately prestigious university" can't pay his bills

readingnews 2y ago

I am no astrophysicist, but he notes: “Hi everyone, my name is Daniel, and I’m an astrophysics professor at UCLA. I’m only being paid $70,000 for this academic year,” McKeown says in the video. McKeown, listed as a lecturer on UCLA’s website, says he had to move out of his apartment because he could no longer afford the rent. McKeown says his rent was $2,500 a month. According to RentCafe, the average rent is $3,700 in Westwood. Hrm, I have no idea what his actual situation or bills are. But 70k is not chump change, and 2.5k rent seems "manageable". Lets see, if his is single, that puts tax at 22%. It is probably 30% with state and local, minus SS tax. Lets kick it up to 36%. (70000-(70000*0.36))/12.0=3733.33 Ok he is left with 3733.33-2500=1233.33 a month, that is BRUTAL, but I know people that live on less than that after a home mortgage and car note. Again, I have no idea of his situation. Maybe student loans, maybe a car note, medical expenses, etc, but to state out loud that you have probably 1.2k a month after rent and can not possibly live without _a hundred grand_ extra (what he is trying to raise... which is EIGHT THOUSAND A MONTH EXTRA) seems a bit, I am not sure, overreacting? I am just conflicted about this story. I have really good friends that would do a hulluva lot for a 70k job with a 2.5k rent, but at the same time, it is true we are paying professors (and educators in general) far too little. Is this just to make a statement maybe?

cute_boi 2y ago
You haven't done anything extra like insurance, mobile bills, other loans etc... which is also costly. If he is married, has obligations to support parents, you are out of luck.
- jcranmer 2y ago
  > If he is married If he is married, then his spouse (especially given the marital demographics of people holding advanced degrees) is quite likely also contributing income, and decently likely to be contributing income at least as much as he is. Now married with kids is a different ballgame, but married per se isn't going to be a financial burden.
mistrial9 2y ago
his taxes in total are more than thirty six percent in California, and there is no mention of debt service costs.

tw2024101316 2y ago

There are different ways to be homeless (some not very good, and some worse). I don't know how many people have run the simulation in their heads before, but being a university professor is just about the most favorable set of conditions that you could have for a person who is forced into being (or chooses to be) homeless. It doesn't look like low pay is the dispositive cause. This looks like it's cost of housing. I have a simple solution to address housing costs: tax the hell out of rentseeking. We should be shooting for a scenario where, five years out starting from right now, a Schedule E filer who owns additional residential properties where they are not an occupant should only be able to net 10% in 2028 for the same gross in 2023.

mistersquid 2y ago

McKeown should be paid more, without question, but he is a lecturer, not a faculty member. His title and appointment is not as a "Professor". [0] This is due to the hierarchical ranking system of academic institutions. McKeown's qualifications may be the same as his more highly ranked colleagues, but the tiered system which rewards research does not pay as much for lecturers whose primary assignment is to teach. [0] https://www.pa.ucla.edu/lecturers.html#:~:text=physics.ucla.edu-,Daniel%20McKeown,-Lecturer%2C%20Physics%20%26%20Astronomy https://www.pa.ucla.edu/lecturers.html#:~:text=physics.ucla....

SoftTalker 2y ago
Yes, lecturer is a low level academic position, using the word "professor" to describe him is inaccurate, even though he has a Ph.D. If he is teaching one class, it likely isn't even a full-time position. Academics are also typically paid a 10-month salary (the "academic year" he mentions), if they teach summer classes that is separate "summer pay." At research universities, part of a professor's salary is also funded by research grant awards they win.
- rconti 2y ago
  It’s in the article. 6 classes a year, so presumably a 3/3.
  - SoftTalker 2y ago
    Thanks, I did miss that.
  - mistersquid 2y ago
    > It’s in the article. 6 classes a year, so presumably a 3/3. UCLA is on a quarter system, so maybe 2/2/2.
BobaFloutist 2y ago
I mean, yeah, that's kind of the problem.

beezle 2y ago

Per smartasset.com: 70K salary in Los Angeles - Gross $5,833/mo, filing single, including federal, state, fica, state disability gives a monthly take home of $4,447 So find it hard to believe he is "homeless", seems to be more by choice. And if the take home after paying rent is still too high, do like most others do - get a roommate to share expenses.

65 2y ago
Yeah, seems obvious getting a roommate would be the answer here. I'm not sure if that's not as culturally acceptable in LA as here in NYC but there are people in their 40s and beyond who have roommates.
- alephnerd 2y ago
  It's culturally acceptable to get a roommate in LA - especially to live in a neighborhood like Westwood. Furthermore, he could live 20 minutes away in another neighborhood instead of Westwood - which is LA's version of Lower East Side in NYC - and get a 1bdrm for $1800-2400. This is truly out of touch, because so many Los Angelenos have a combined household income at or below $70,000 yet are able to raise families and live a middle class life in LA. This does not mean that lecturer pay shouldn't be increased - lecturers in humanities fields at UCLA get paid WAAAAY worse than $70k, and would fight to get that kind of a salary alone.

jncfhnb 2y ago

This comic has sat in my head for a long time: https://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/college-level-mathematics https://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/college-level-mathematics It’s now outdated, and the numbers are worse

flatline 2y ago

Academia is exploitative. The financial incentives are a symptom of the bigger problem. Is university career training for industry or for an academic track? It is not made clear to people entering the system, and is often murky to everyone years into a degree. There is encouragement for education for its own sake, there’s encouragement for education for a high paying career, and there’s encouragement to merge these two and enter academia in a professional capacity. There’s often a mountain of undischargeable personal debt behind it. What people are typically not told is that financially stable academic positions are either political or hard to come by. It’s like professional sports: you can be a pro and just short of top notch and you’ll be playing in the minors for your career, making pennies. This could take the form of endless low-paying postdoctoral gigs, or the crown prize, an associate professorship with little or no benefits and a salary that just lets you scrape by. In the meantime you are expected to pour your heart and soul into the endeavor. There is some reward in that but it is fleeting, and once you have committed to a career path the momentum to change tracks can be a real obstacle. Academia will suck you dry and demand more. Unless you end up with a tenured position at the end of that, it’s not sustainable unless you have another source of financial backing, like a spouse with a “real job.” The US doesn’t really value education. Those who do are idealistic or exploitative, sometimes both. You’re buying into a deeply dysfunctional system and should at least go into it with eyes open.

qeternity 2y ago
> Academia is exploitative. As another commenter noted, this person could likely easily go into the private sector and earn multiples of their salary. Also $70k is smack on for median salaries in LA. This person chooses to work in academia. He is not being exploited. Presumably he finds it more fulfilling to do what he does currently. And good for him. But that’s a luxury. Nothing in life guarantees your dream job and your dream salary.
- lenkite 2y ago
  Lol at having a home being a luxury for a "dream job" - is this the New American Dream that Americans want the rest of the world to adopt ?

catchcatchcatch 2y ago

He can get another job most scientists need to stock shelves or something puts their phd in perspective

oatmeal1 2y ago

Low pay isn't the problem. There's nowhere $70k shouldn't enable you to afford rent. Setback requirements, and single use & single family zoning are the problem.

alephnerd 2y ago
> There's nowhere $70k shouldn't enable you to afford rent You can afford to rent a 1 bedroom on a $70k salary in Los Angeles - not in Westwood (the bougie neighborhood that UCLA is located in), but take the 405 and commute from the Valley.

deleted 2y ago

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rdudek 2y ago

Wonder how much UCLA administrators get paid compared to faculty?

dekhn 2y ago
All of UC's pay is online at https://ucannualwage.ucop.edu/wage/ https://ucannualwage.ucop.edu/wage/ If you search for administrator (although dean might be a better term?) you will see folks like the head of the Hammer Musuem, which is affiliated with UCLA, makes gross $437K. Her job title is Academic Administrator VII (the highest level in that job type). Similarly, the Dean for UC Extension (basically a night-school for UC) makes a similar salary. Other Academic Administrator VII make "much less"- all the way down to $26K or even $0. As an anecdote, let me explain how the game is played. I had two different postdoc advisors at Berkeley. Both were tenure-track professors with good publication records. The first one negotiated her own startup package (starting professors get lab money and lab space to get started) and ended up with a small collection of rooms (3) on a crowded floor, with terrible IT infra. She eventually convinced the facilities manager to give her an IT room (nothing quite like watching your advisor waggle her body to get space) and eventually got tenure- 12 years after starting. The second advisor brought a lawyer to his negotiation and secured a full lab space with promises of more, a $1+M startup fund, and a number of other key concessions; he got tenure in 5 more years. The first professor said it was "unseemly" that the second professor had brought a negotiator- but the reality is that the Deans who act as the university representative are quite knowledgeable and seek to bring on faculty for the lowest prices, while paying themselves the excess.

linguae 2y ago

As someone who recently left an industry job to teach full-time at a community college, I have mixed feelings about the situation of this physics lecturer. I don’t want to dismiss the difficulties that many people, including academics, face in the housing market. In places like Los Angeles and Silicon Valley it’s rough for those having to pay market rates for housing unless they have extremely high incomes. However, I feel that the lecturer, who started his position at UCLA last year, didn’t do enough homework regarding academic salaries. $70,000 for a non-tenured lecturer is normal, maybe above average, and in fact there are many tenure-track assistant professors who make about the same. To add, UCLA is in a very expensive area. He will have to compete against well-heeled people who want to live within close proximity to some of the nation’s wealthiest areas, such as Santa Monica and Beverly Hills. A physics lecturer simply can’t compete against Hollywood. In addition, a $70,000 annual salary means that he could qualify for a rental no more than $1944 per month due to the standard 3x the rent requirement a lot of California landlords have. A cursory search on Craigslist shows plenty of one-bedroom apartments in Los Angeles County that are within this budget. Granted, they may not be the nicest complexes in the nicest neighborhoods, and they may require a commute, but the Los Angeles metro area does have extensive public transportation, and nobody goes into academia expecting a luxurious lifestyle on an academic salary. An academic who wants to make serious money needs to take advantage of entrepreneurial opportunities outside the institution. In addition, there are plenty of grad students and postdocs making less than $70,000 who attend schools like UCLA that are in very expensive areas. Once again, I don’t want to dismiss the challenges they have. I myself lived in Santa Cruz County for over a decade and I know firsthand the challenge of being a grad student at UC Santa Cruz dealing with the area’s notoriously difficult housing market. But I have a feeling we’re being withheld useful information about his finances. Does he have massive student loans impacting his budget? Does he have other obligations such as taking care of family members? Why wasn’t he able to take advantage of UCLA’s faculty housing? I just feel that this guy didn’t do enough homework about the realities of being an academic, especially one living in a very expensive area. I’m an academic in Silicon Valley and I’m fully aware of the tradeoffs of choosing this lifestyle over industry. Yes, I’d like a bigger home closer to work, and I have no idea how I’d raise a family (though I’m single now so I don’t need to worry). But at the same time I enjoy the freedom I have in academia; I have far more research freedom as a community college instructor than I did as an industry researcher. I also love teaching and guiding students.

robertlagrant 2y ago

How is he homeless? Can someone break down where that 70k goes? It's about $5.8k/month gross.

OutOfHere 2y ago

He should get the message that they don't need him there. He should quit and get a real job in industry that pays 100-200k. It may require him to move, but not be homeless.

FfejL 2y ago

“Technically, I am homeless. I do not have a place of my own. I’m not on any lease,” he says. That is not 'technically' homeless, or any other kind of homeless. If it was, millions of adults who move back home with their parents would be 'homeless.' Millions of spouses who aren't on the lease or deed would be 'homeless.' Millions of roommates, too -- which is, in fact, what this guy actually is. I sympathize that the guy is in a tough spot, $70k a year is not a lot to live on in LA. But this kind of self-victimization is not helpful, Professor.

dekhn 2y ago

For some reason his videos keep showing up when I watch Youtube Shorts even after I've clicked the various buttons which should suppress them. At some point, people started pointing out the problems in his argument, and he'd... post trolling videos with him responding. And the videos are just static snapshots of twitter exchanges. Any sympathy I had for him disappeared when he started attacking folks making good points.

vinni2 2y ago

It says he is a lecturer. Unfortunately lecturers are not well payed. My understanding is lecturers only teach and don’t bring in research grants. Tenured professors are a different story.

tzs 2y ago

Maybe universities should provide housing for the lower paid teaching staff. In the case of UCLA they have on-campus housing and nearby UCLA-owned apartments for about 13000 people. Let's say they expanded that by 5%. That would be housing for 650 people. They have around 5500 faculty members and 31000 staff members (although both of these numbers vary quite a bit from source to source), but many of the faculty are in research positions not teaching positions. UCLA is usually reports to have a student to teacher ration of around 19:1 and around 45000 students, which would suggest about 2400 teachers, so my proposed 5% housing expansion would let them offer housing to about 1/4 of the teachers. It would probably have be high density housing, much like typical undergraduate housing, but that should be fine. All the people in it would be doing very similar jobs, likely on very similar schedules, and with similar requirements for their home environment. The more similar you are to your neighbors the higher density can go before people want to start killing each other.

codekisser 2y ago
My university's dorms suffered from no AC, black mold, cockroaches, and yearly floods. I couldn't imagine if teachers and TAs had to live in such slums in addition to being given such inadequate pay. Providing housing is just treating a symptom - universities should fix this by paying their staff enough so they can even afford rent.

rahimnathwani 2y ago

Here is another perspective, for balance: https://x.com/DrBrianKeating/status/1845528361013231808 https://x.com/DrBrianKeating/status/1845528361013231808

kelavaster 2y ago

Homeless due to not having roommates like college students.. Too bad that he though he was in a higher caste of profession...