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Automation messes up the flow of illegal drugs. The big stuff does not come in a backpack but in container ships/trucks. In LATAM, dock workers make sure this

Automation messes up the flow of illegal drugs. The big stuff does not come in a backpack but in container ships/trucks. In LATAM, dock workers make sure this goes undetected. I know of an IE who was championing a dock worker scheduling optimization algo, typical Operations Management stuff. Dude was killed. I'd like to think that this kind of things do not happen here. But every time I've thought along those lines, I've been mistaken. It's just happens at a different scale.

Workaccount2 2y ago
You'd think the union would keep it's head down then. Or they are just power drunk and want their cake while eating it too?
- underseacables 2y ago
  Considering what can happen if you cross a union? I would imagine people keep their heads down and turn a blind eye
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- Manuel_D 2y ago
  They are in the position to hold critical infrastructure hostage, via a government mandated monopoly on labor. The ports can't just reject the union offer and employ non-union workers. Laws mandate that the ports can only hire union labor. The Union can, if it so desires, shut down most East coast ports until it gets its demands. They're not power drunk, they genuinely have the power to cause massive economic damage. Imagine halfway through a kitchen remodel, your contractor stops working and demands 70% more than the initial quote. But not only that, the government prohibits you from hiring a different contractor at market rates and forces you to negotiate with the original contractor. That's what union negotiations are like.
  - johnnyanmac 2y ago
    That's a weird metaphor considering the situation here was that a contract expired and they had months to negotiate. It's more like if you were in the middle of reworking your kitchen and while that was happening you were talking about doing the bedroom next for a cheaper cost. They said no but you thought you could get a bulk deal. Now add that to a bigger time scale and mass inflation happened between the batrhoom and he bedroom. They have to charge more just to keep buying power.
    - Manuel_D 2y ago
      The analogue to the kitchen remodel is that critical infrastructure is held hostage. Ports are prohibited, by law, from hiring non union port workers if they find the union's demands too onerous. This gives the union incredible leverage to harm the rest of society if their demands are not met.
      - johnnyanmac 2y ago
        I see that as a good thing, given that we're on the receiving end of when companies can drop any employee on a dime with no explanation. If it's that critical, give the older workers their pension early and let them enjoy their life. And the younger workers should he retrained to work with the automation. But we know that's never what happens when work gets more efficient. So it's not just about "advancement" for the ports. The fact that those things were never even on the table speaks for itself. ---- Alternatively, congress can always repeal the law and break whatever contracts they have. Surely their own dysfunction wouldn't bite them in the butt when it's in the government interest, right?
        gruez 2y ago
        >I see that as a good thing, given that we're on the receiving end of when companies can drop any employee on a dime with no explanation. Companies aren't a monolith, and dock worker unions screwing over port companies isn't magically going to make all other workers better off. If anything the supply chain disruptions resulting from a strike and costs (as a result of lack of automation) is going to make their lives worse through higher inflation. >If it's that critical, give the older workers their pension early and let them enjoy their life. If your business is that critical, just pay the mafia protection money so they can enjoy their life!
snapetom 2y ago
> Automation messes up the flow of illegal drugs. This is the real reason and one of the primary reasons productivity won't be optimized, especially at the LATAM ports.
paganel 2y ago
It happens in Rotterdam, EU's biggest container port, so I'm pretty sure that it happens in the States, too.
evantbyrne 2y ago
Salacious claims like this should always be backed up with verifiable info. In the absence of such, it is reasonable to assume inaccuracies from chains of communication or even deception–especially when coming from an anonymous source. Did you even know the guy?
- zubiaur 2y ago
  Fair. https://cdn.peru21.e3.pe/actualidad/sicarios-asesinan-seis-balazos-trabajador-apm-callao-2243741 https://cdn.peru21.e3.pe/actualidad/sicarios-asesinan-seis-b...
  - evantbyrne 2y ago
    Oh I thought you were talking about US when you went on to say "I'd like to think that this kind of things do not happen here. But every time I've thought along those lines, I've been mistaken. It's just happens at a different scale." It is pretty unusual here for wageys to be targets of hits.
IncreasePosts 2y ago
How would automation mess up the flow of drugs. Wouldn't it make it easier, if no human was there to take a peek? Or are there ghost containers on ships, which are filled with drugs and not part of the manifest, that an automated system would flag but people with greased hands know to let it through?
- xav0989 2y ago
  Likely the second one, things like “take that container and drop it off on that truck, but don’t log it”
  - AdamJacobMuller 2y ago
    Doesn't even have to be whole containers, whole containers would be harder to hide. Just divert the container to an area without cameras for a few minutes, pop it open and remove the kilos. In a manual world, nobody notices that the container takes 15 minutes longer to reach the storage area. In a manual world, nobody notices that the container suddenly became 100lbs lighter. In a manual world, nobody notices the GPS trace showing the container going behind the warehouse where the camera coverage is spotty.
    - morkalork 2y ago
      You might like this article: https://www.occrp.org/en/project/narcofiles-the-new-criminal-order/inside-job-how-a-hacker-helped-cocaine-traffickers-infiltrate-europes-biggest-ports https://www.occrp.org/en/project/narcofiles-the-new-criminal...
- crote 2y ago
  > Wouldn't it make it easier, if no human was there to take a peek? On the other hand, if there aren't supposed to be humans around it's a lot easier to spot people who don't belong: that would be literally every single human.
- FireBeyond 2y ago
  The second, mostly. The second season of The Wire (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Wire_season_2 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Wire_season_2) covers this, as they track containers that come off a ship and end up in The Stack, and never make it onboard a truck (at least according to the tracking system).
which 2y ago
This interpretation is at odds with what happens in Rotterdam aka cocaine ground zero (or is it Antwerp now?). It's the most automated port in the world. They still routinely bust port insiders who help crooks there. https://www.bbc.com/news/stories-59379474 https://www.bbc.com/news/stories-59379474 https://www.vice.com/en/article/belgium-netherlands-cocaine-trafficking-narcostate/ https://www.vice.com/en/article/belgium-netherlands-cocaine-... https://www.occrp.org/en/project/narcofiles-the-new-criminal-order/inside-job-how-a-hacker-helped-cocaine-traffickers-infiltrate-europes-biggest-ports https://www.occrp.org/en/project/narcofiles-the-new-criminal...
- standardUser 2y ago
  The fact that we still waste fortunes pretending we can ban drugs, despite the drug trade preserving every single time without fail, irks me to no end.
  - HPsquared 2y ago
    Like a lot of nice-sounding but difficult things, it reaches "political exhaustion" and we end up with a half-assed "compromise" that's the worst of both worlds.
- joe_the_user 2y ago
  If we follow the OP's point, a good port is one where insiders can be busted for facilitating drug traffic and a bad port is one where insiders get killed for trying to stop it.
- guywithahat 2y ago
  I would argue OP's point is still valid since any kind of change is bad when you're smuggling drugs. If they automate everything, then all of the old systems no longer work, and any new system would require people working at much higher levels. The argument here is that the union is directly involved in drug smuggling, which is why some of the union reps live in multimillion dollar luxury homes. They're opposed to automation because it would mess up their system

Workaccount2 2y ago

You'd think the union would keep it's head down then. Or they are just power drunk and want their cake while eating it too?

underseacables 2y ago
Considering what can happen if you cross a union? I would imagine people keep their heads down and turn a blind eye
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
Manuel_D 2y ago
They are in the position to hold critical infrastructure hostage, via a government mandated monopoly on labor. The ports can't just reject the union offer and employ non-union workers. Laws mandate that the ports can only hire union labor. The Union can, if it so desires, shut down most East coast ports until it gets its demands. They're not power drunk, they genuinely have the power to cause massive economic damage. Imagine halfway through a kitchen remodel, your contractor stops working and demands 70% more than the initial quote. But not only that, the government prohibits you from hiring a different contractor at market rates and forces you to negotiate with the original contractor. That's what union negotiations are like.
- johnnyanmac 2y ago
  That's a weird metaphor considering the situation here was that a contract expired and they had months to negotiate. It's more like if you were in the middle of reworking your kitchen and while that was happening you were talking about doing the bedroom next for a cheaper cost. They said no but you thought you could get a bulk deal. Now add that to a bigger time scale and mass inflation happened between the batrhoom and he bedroom. They have to charge more just to keep buying power.
  - Manuel_D 2y ago
    The analogue to the kitchen remodel is that critical infrastructure is held hostage. Ports are prohibited, by law, from hiring non union port workers if they find the union's demands too onerous. This gives the union incredible leverage to harm the rest of society if their demands are not met.
    - johnnyanmac 2y ago
      I see that as a good thing, given that we're on the receiving end of when companies can drop any employee on a dime with no explanation. If it's that critical, give the older workers their pension early and let them enjoy their life. And the younger workers should he retrained to work with the automation. But we know that's never what happens when work gets more efficient. So it's not just about "advancement" for the ports. The fact that those things were never even on the table speaks for itself. ---- Alternatively, congress can always repeal the law and break whatever contracts they have. Surely their own dysfunction wouldn't bite them in the butt when it's in the government interest, right?
      - gruez 2y ago
        >I see that as a good thing, given that we're on the receiving end of when companies can drop any employee on a dime with no explanation. Companies aren't a monolith, and dock worker unions screwing over port companies isn't magically going to make all other workers better off. If anything the supply chain disruptions resulting from a strike and costs (as a result of lack of automation) is going to make their lives worse through higher inflation. >If it's that critical, give the older workers their pension early and let them enjoy their life. If your business is that critical, just pay the mafia protection money so they can enjoy their life!

snapetom 2y ago

> Automation messes up the flow of illegal drugs. This is the real reason and one of the primary reasons productivity won't be optimized, especially at the LATAM ports.

paganel 2y ago

It happens in Rotterdam, EU's biggest container port, so I'm pretty sure that it happens in the States, too.

evantbyrne 2y ago

Salacious claims like this should always be backed up with verifiable info. In the absence of such, it is reasonable to assume inaccuracies from chains of communication or even deception–especially when coming from an anonymous source. Did you even know the guy?

zubiaur 2y ago
Fair. https://cdn.peru21.e3.pe/actualidad/sicarios-asesinan-seis-balazos-trabajador-apm-callao-2243741 https://cdn.peru21.e3.pe/actualidad/sicarios-asesinan-seis-b...
- evantbyrne 2y ago
  Oh I thought you were talking about US when you went on to say "I'd like to think that this kind of things do not happen here. But every time I've thought along those lines, I've been mistaken. It's just happens at a different scale." It is pretty unusual here for wageys to be targets of hits.

IncreasePosts 2y ago

How would automation mess up the flow of drugs. Wouldn't it make it easier, if no human was there to take a peek? Or are there ghost containers on ships, which are filled with drugs and not part of the manifest, that an automated system would flag but people with greased hands know to let it through?

xav0989 2y ago
Likely the second one, things like “take that container and drop it off on that truck, but don’t log it”
- AdamJacobMuller 2y ago
  Doesn't even have to be whole containers, whole containers would be harder to hide. Just divert the container to an area without cameras for a few minutes, pop it open and remove the kilos. In a manual world, nobody notices that the container takes 15 minutes longer to reach the storage area. In a manual world, nobody notices that the container suddenly became 100lbs lighter. In a manual world, nobody notices the GPS trace showing the container going behind the warehouse where the camera coverage is spotty.
  - morkalork 2y ago
    You might like this article: https://www.occrp.org/en/project/narcofiles-the-new-criminal-order/inside-job-how-a-hacker-helped-cocaine-traffickers-infiltrate-europes-biggest-ports https://www.occrp.org/en/project/narcofiles-the-new-criminal...
crote 2y ago
> Wouldn't it make it easier, if no human was there to take a peek? On the other hand, if there aren't supposed to be humans around it's a lot easier to spot people who don't belong: that would be literally every single human.
FireBeyond 2y ago
The second, mostly. The second season of The Wire (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Wire_season_2 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Wire_season_2) covers this, as they track containers that come off a ship and end up in The Stack, and never make it onboard a truck (at least according to the tracking system).

which 2y ago

This interpretation is at odds with what happens in Rotterdam aka cocaine ground zero (or is it Antwerp now?). It's the most automated port in the world. They still routinely bust port insiders who help crooks there. https://www.bbc.com/news/stories-59379474 https://www.bbc.com/news/stories-59379474 https://www.vice.com/en/article/belgium-netherlands-cocaine-trafficking-narcostate/ https://www.vice.com/en/article/belgium-netherlands-cocaine-... https://www.occrp.org/en/project/narcofiles-the-new-criminal-order/inside-job-how-a-hacker-helped-cocaine-traffickers-infiltrate-europes-biggest-ports https://www.occrp.org/en/project/narcofiles-the-new-criminal...

standardUser 2y ago
The fact that we still waste fortunes pretending we can ban drugs, despite the drug trade preserving every single time without fail, irks me to no end.
- HPsquared 2y ago
  Like a lot of nice-sounding but difficult things, it reaches "political exhaustion" and we end up with a half-assed "compromise" that's the worst of both worlds.
joe_the_user 2y ago
If we follow the OP's point, a good port is one where insiders can be busted for facilitating drug traffic and a bad port is one where insiders get killed for trying to stop it.
guywithahat 2y ago
I would argue OP's point is still valid since any kind of change is bad when you're smuggling drugs. If they automate everything, then all of the old systems no longer work, and any new system would require people working at much higher levels. The argument here is that the union is directly involved in drug smuggling, which is why some of the union reps live in multimillion dollar luxury homes. They're opposed to automation because it would mess up their system